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How do we deal with misinformation on AR?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and respect thereof. However, once in a while I run across a post where the information is at best misleading, at worst just plain wrong.

I bumped into a post in the photography group today that is replete with errors.

What do we do about this?

1. Send them a nice note explaining where they might want to revise their post

It's sometimes said; 'No good deed goes unpunished.' I've tried the nice note bit. It turns out the people who are enthusiastically blogging incorrect info aren't usally all that keen on you offering them advice on how to improve it. One might guess that their attitude about accepting new ideas or explainations might be why they are stuck with the wrong facts in the first place.

2. Post a blog with the correct info without calling out the incorrect post

This feels like a better option because if written well, it's not confrontational and takes care not to bruise any egos. The big drawback to this is that the people reading 'bobby's blog about how the moon is made of cheese' may not ever get a chance to see your blog on how the 'moon is really made of...well...moon stuff, like rock for example'. Also, I always feel like it's pretty obvious which post is being referred to. That kind of kills the subtly of the correction.

3. Set loose a horde of giant robotic weasels upon the original poster and their blog

Sure, this seems like a great idea at first...but giant robotic weasels are a lot harder to tame than you might imagine. Don't even get me started on the pet licensing situation for these. In the end this option just takes too much work.

- - -

Are there better options than these? Surely? What do you do when you run across a post that is full of more holes than swiss cheese? :)

Cheers, -B

Seattle-Real-Estate-Photography

Posted by Bryce Mohan on 08/31/2008 02:00 AM

Comments (78)

misinformation, ethics, seattle real estate photographer, architectural photographer

Post is included in group: Active Rain Newbies
Post is included in group: ETHICS and the REALTOR
Post is included in group: Great Shots!
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Post is included in group: Photography, Advanced

78 Comments on How do we deal with misinformation on AR?

AUG

2008

How about asking for their permission to repost it somewhere else "after they fix the errors"!

Hi Bryce,

Interesting question...I usually just don't comment at all. Yet, there have been a few times I've said "I see it differently..." yet imho that doesn'tmake me correct either...just different. I guess it's different if you're a pro (i.e. photography) in the subject and the other person is not.

Yet even as professionals we canhave a difference of opinion. After reading a comment some time ago, the person was so clueless on the subject, it made me wonder if that person was licensed or not. Later I found out that this person has a ghost blogger who is from a foreign country, so maybe it was also a "ghost" comment too. Who knows for sure? Guess it just happens.

It depends. Most things have shades of gray. If you feel you need to correct someone then I would just write in the comments "In my experience...such and such is the case, or "In my state of Oregon...such and such is the case."

I can't imagine a situation in photography that would be replete with errors, since photography is an art (okay yes there is science involved as well...). If I felt strongly about it I would just state my opinion in the comments, or write my own blog and reference the other one. The blog is out there in writing for commenting. Not sure why you would purposely avoid it in #2. Shoot...Mike wrote a post called "Lenn Harley is wrong." How about that for subtle?

Tony, not a bad idea...I'm not sure quite how I would pull that off though. I think I would still come of sounding like obnoxious know it all (which I am). :P

Lynda, I almost always pass by when I see dubious info...and yet it's difficult to do when a layperson is espousing "fact's" and AR folks are taking that advice despite it being incorrect.

Melina, that's probably the best approach so far...but I have a feeling this person isn't overly fond of feedback of that type.

Good question about objectivity in art...in this case they are talking about legal ramifications of rights usage...so it's pretty black and white. That's the worst part...they are sending folks out there with incorrect advice about their rights.

Sigh.

I'm problably overly worked up about this...but it's just a shame to see see AR as a resource diminished by bunk information.

I would leave a tactful comment with the correct information in the blog -- and then may write another blog as you suggested. Sometimes, it is a matter of differing opinions, but sometimes, the information is factually wrong.

I wouldn't suppose this has anything to do with the Photographer's rights stuff over at Maureen McCabe's blog? ;-)

My first concern is that you might be talking about me. If I'm out of line, I'd rather know about it. I can get my feelings hurt just like the next guy, but if your heart is in the right place, your correction will be well received.

Why not just send a private message first? That way you can address the issue and don't have to publicly say something that might inadvertently be taken wrong, or embarrass someone, or whatever.

Just a thought.

I'll expect your message soon. : )

AUG

2008

The cream always rises to the top. All of us have to sift through junk all day every day. We have to read, and ignore, those who have nothing better to offer than their hot air and controversy. I say don't waste your time. Those with expertise always shine through, which is why I hang on every post you share.

flag it as incorrect? I don't know! I guess I would write my own post with the correct info and maybe email them privately and nicely as an fyi or let it go.

This is only slightly related to your post... and, admittedly, a bit selfish. But could you post the web-address where one might find robotic weasels? (...large or small... I'm not picky.)

I really think the best way is to email them privately as it is up to them to find out what they did wrong. They will do what they want anyway but at least you were nice enough to point it out for them!

Great Post!

Thanks,

Tom Davis

World Class Delaware Realtor

How about sending them a private message so that you don't seem to be showing them up in front of everyone? You can word it nicely and blame someone else for giving them info that was not quite correct or not quite current. Suggest some "additional" thoughts and allow them to use those ideas with your permission to add to their post or write another one, and commend their interest in good photography (or whatever).

I do what Melina does, so I'll just copy and paste her comment:

"It depends. Most things have shades of gray. If you feel you need to correct someone then I would just write in the comments "In my experience...such and such is the case, or "In my state of Oregon...such and such is the case."

Thanks, Melina!

Bryce - I agree with the private note, unless the post is truly an open discussion. I would like the robotic weasels source also.

'Glad I found your post g, because now I know there's a photography group! Aside from that, regarding your question, I agree that a private diplomatic note indicating your difference of opinion, based upon your professional experience and training, and expressing concern that some people may walk away with the wrong impression of facts - especiallly if the poster is a non-photographer who is really just expressing their best guess.

BRYCE - It really depends on if the information is factually wrong, or if it is just an opinion. Much of what I see on AR is based on opinion, but there are factual posts as well. I can't speak for others, but if I had an incorrectly stated fact in my post, I would appreciate an e-mail or phone call. It wouldn't hurt to have the supporting link to the facts as well.

I agree with Adam....I believe it is morally, ethically, factually, actually "wrong" to BUY a listing and price it for whatever the sellers desire....but that is a matter of opinion.

Ditto on Adam's comment. I would drop them a private email or call. You aren't being mean or disrespectful, if the person has misquoted a fact. If it is an opinion, that is another thing. I would appreciate knowing, if it were me and would not be offended at all, but appreciative. :)

I u nderstand your position---probably I would just report the post although I've never had a reason to do that. I think I miss most of the drama on AR which is just as good.

I think a private message is a good idea, but that won't guarantee results.

I completely agree with Susie Blackmon - a smart reader will have a sense of who's cream and who's not. There is a lot of bunk here on A|R, much of it not even real-estate related but political or other. There is a lot of bunk everywhere and A|R is no different. It is our responsibility as adults to use our personal judgment, not just believe everything we read.

Bryce - Adam said the gist of it. Blog posts are viewed by many on AR as their marketing. They may not appreciate their "marketing" material being negated in front of potential clients and others. On the other hand, they may greatly appreciate a correction of facts done in private through a note. it would probably help the blogger, if your facts were supported by sources of where they come from. The other blogger could look it up and be happy you were kind enough to let them know. They could correct their post and no feelings are hurt or reputations undermined.

If it's their understanding or interpretation of the law you disagree with (which your comment suggests), you may suggest they consult an attorney. Specify your experience when the law was interpreted differently. The more facts you provide - the more chance for the other blogger to see it as helpful.

I say send a private message. if it works fine, if not just post your own info on your own blog and let the reader decide.

Mike was wrong when he said that I was wrong.

Got that out of the way.

I tried a private note to a person once. They blasted me in comments on my post. Then I posted a copy of THE LAW to demonstrate that they were incorrect. They then contacted AR and I was asked to remove my comments to their comments. Seems that they didn't want any record of their ignorance of the agency law in their state to be published.

So, I refer to that experience as my experience with being censored on ActiveRain.

I have developed a "live and let live" when it comes to what folks write. From time to time I may write a comment to a post that starts with "I disagree". . . . or "I dispute that". . . . which will usually start a conversation.

However, when dealing with something technical, there are seldom two set of facts. But, not being the expert on anything, I just let them go and wait for them to stumble over the truth, if they can. If i know something is not correct, others will too.

This is getting too complicated and I have a treadmill waiting.

I would think a email letting them know the facts are wrong would work

I don't know the right answer -- on the other side of that incorrect post may be an ego as big as Texas (sorry Texans -- no insult intended.) ~Evelyn

Bryce, I think Adam's comment is the best way to handle it. But Lenn has a point as well. If it something that needs to be brought to our attention to keep us out of trouble and harms way, I think you need to post a rebuttal ( if you will) to bring the correct information to our attention.

Someone mentioned above that many take ActiveRain as a marketing platform. If that's how you see it, then you probably don't want to mess with someone's advertising. But then the author should not allow commenting.

I look at ActiveRain comments as a place for civil discussion. If I see something as incorrect or if I disagree, I'm going to say it in the comments. It's part of the blogging experience. If someone can't handle being corrected or disagreed with then I would say that blogging isn't the platform for their marketing.

You can tell a lot about a person by the way they handle opposing views. You can really tell a lot by how they handle a situation after they realize that they were actually wrong. Do they run and hide? Or do they face the facts and become thankful for the learning experience?

If they delete your comment, that says a lot. But then just do your own post and reference the post that you think is wrong. If that offends anyone, they can leave a comment on your post where you can respond back and maybe an informative discussion can start and everyone can learn something.

Bryce, For me it depends on who wrote it. There are some folks on AR that have pretty much stated that if you disagree with them they will delete your comment. So I wise man would just avoid their blog all together. And then there are others who love to stir up the pot and may be posting inaccurate information just to do so. I like these folks and have no problem "correcting" them.

I have found that most folks welocme opinions and have no probelm changing theirs of you can provide them with a sound reason to do so.

Just as anything else.....it's all about the presentation.

IMHO:

I think it should be handled privately and if the matter isn't settled, then write your own blog. Anyone interested in the topic will more than likely find it. We need to remember than many people are reading our blogs and we often may not even know it. We need to keep a standard of professionalism and if there is a difference of opinion or the facts are wrong, handle it privately. I was corrected publicly on one of my recent blogs and it was just a simple straightforward comment but I am the sort of person who wants to be corrected if I am wrong. I have never been above admitting I'm wrong when it is proven that I am in fact wrong.

I issued a public response, telling the commenter that I stand corrected and I appreciated it being brought to my attention and I did appreciate it being brought to my attention but maybe it didn't have to be done publicly. It was a typo but still it was an error. But to be honest, my first thought was that it would have been more professional if the reader had dropped me a private email. I can't help but have an initial feeling that perhaps, this competitor wanted to show me up just a little. I'll give the reader the benefit of the doubt and choose to think that he/she was just being helpful. On the other hand, it showed me that the reader actually read the blog and paid attention to the detail so I think that says something for that reader.

Bryce, I gotta go with option 3----is there really an alternative:)

I need the weasels today - please send them my way. I am not sure what specific situation you have but I sent a note to AR today about pics in a blog of a business that closed down 5 years ago. The pic was included in a highlight and things to do in this area. Heck, two commenters on THIS post had replied to it saying how nice the area seemed, etc. There were other blatant errors that I would know but people from other areas wouldn't. It just irks me - ya know?

I think even if you went to some (maybe most) people privately, it will still be taken as an offense. I like the idea of doing your own post then making a comment on the original that indicates you have a different opinion/experience and that you have written on the subject as well. DON'T link to it, just make a reference so that anyone who wants to see your post can search it out on your blog.

If done non-confrontationally it shouldn't be deleted. Unless of course the person can't handle any kind of contrary view. If the comment gets deleted than you know where they stand. But at least you still have you view posted out there.

I have used option #2 several times to good effect. Congrats on the featured post!

I think if it is something that could harm others in some way, by reading the misinformation, that we should leave a comment with our opinion, obviously diplomatically. I recently commented on a rant that was misleading to the public and other agents so I left what I believe to be a better response and initially received resistance but an eventual thank you. I had recently written a post with the almost opposite view on the issue and said they may want to click over and read it.

I think if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Plus everyone is entitled to their own opinion so to ask them to rewrite it would be wrong but to leave a better statment would be helpful.

Correct it - address the errors in your own post. Perhaps don't point anyone out - but address each error in detail and why it's wrong and what is the correct thing.

I do it all the time.

Interesting question and you've gotten some good tips. I'm w/ most of the "private" votes but if that didn't work and I felt that the information was really incorrect and might lead some folks down the wrong path, I would probably post my own info and may or may not reference the old one. Hard to know without understanding the nature of the bad info.

Great info Bryce. i will pass it on.

I like the robotic weasel idea....

We had a bad one a while back on the mortgage side.....

I'll tell them... in their blog. I might try to soften it. Of course, that is only if it is a provable matter of fact, not opinion. I will also try to provide supporting links if I decide to take that on. I've had a couple deleted. I've been shown to be wrong on occasion... both on my blog and in my comments. But usually people disagree with opinion, not fact.

Hmmm. Interesting discussion. If you have a feel for and basically respect the other individual, a tactful private message would be a kindness. I'm in the camp that would like to see a separately written post on your own blog with the correct information. As a professional photographer, your post would naturally carry more weight with me on the finer points of photography than a non-pro's.

I don't think there's any need to 'call' them on their misinformation publicly (unless perhaps as in Lenn's case it has to do with information that could cause real harm if followed, such as legal misinformation - I must say I'm ...disturbed at the idea that her rebuttal was censored).

A link in your private message to your new post on the topic to support your point might be well received, especially if it does not identify the misinformed writer and/or embarrass them.

Thanks for making me aware of the Photograpy Group, I'll have to pay a visit.

Or you could write a blog about what to do about misinformation of AR and post it to the Photography group.

Bryce - your words are as deft and subtle as your photographs.

If the case is about photography rights, then it is pretty black and white. Post your local laws in your blog and reference the post that isn't correct.

While there are general national laws, I'm sure some cities have local ordinances. In Oregon, you can't tape an audio conversation without consent, but you can in some other states. I know that an agent has disagreed with Lenn on the fair use doctrine regarding content and has posted about it, while referencing her post. He had a different interpretation of the law and expressed his opinion, respectfully about it.

You can disagree and point out differences without being mean. If you need some ideas about how to be diplomatic read posts by BB and Lenn, and honestly even Mike Mueller's post (despite the title) about Lenn was not a rude or a disrespectful post. Granted that was an disagreement about opinion and not facts though.

The correct way to do it is to make the correction nicely in the comments section of the post. You can say "rather than x...sometimes it is better to x" The purpose of blogging is for better info to come out via the comments, so don't be afraid to correct and expand the material of the post. What the writer is supposed to do if he agrees with your correction, is to go back and do a strike out and correction of the issue in the post itself thanking you and noting your comment that made the correction.

I have a situation like that now where a local agent posted info in the comments to one of my posts that is flat out wrong. I have to correct that as leaving it alone will lead readers of my post to believe that I agree with the erroneous info.

Comments are somewhat like "letters to the editor" in the newspaper, and corrections are part of the process.

P.S. I really like obnoxious know-it-alls. Don't be afraid to always be yourself in a big way. Now let's talk about long distance night views from Kirkland across the lake to Seattle. Can you get the City Lights views from that distance? Call me.

I indirectly wrote a blog entry about this myself the other day. I also sort of answered my own question.

Its really hard to not want to correct it. I dont like seeing misinformation spread because some see this as a reliable source and I want it to be.

Probably depends on the nature of the mis-information. But generally we just don't say anything at all. The truth will rise to the surface theory --- AR is not the only place that there is incorrect info on the Internet -- there is incorrect info all over the place. People who need info generally read many references and the truth will surface. We don't consider ourselves to be "net-police" -- just our 2 cents.

Send them a private email, make a comment and then post a blog with the "correct" info. They must think they are correct or they would not have posted it.

You could let the moderator of the group know and just let them handle it. NO WAIT that is a terrible idea.

I just try to stay away from other peoples mistakes unless it's really something bad or life shattering. If I see mistakes in a blog ..I won't even embarrass the person private or not...it really isn't my business. It's better not to get into it with the wrong person.

Interesting questions...and to the point. Alot of individuals do not like being called out whether right or wrong. A blog is considered there turf and I don't like stepping on there turf at times. I will atleast leave a small comment.

I like your feature post.

Cheron Lange

We are all here to learn and if you have constructive suggestion send to them via e-mail outside of the blog

Thanks very much everyone, for your response. This is a genuine question for me so I sincerely appreciate the feedback.

There are some very thoughtful approaches here, even where some of them diverge in method. I don't have time to respond to every comment so I will try to respond to the main themes.

- - -

Just to recap - My immediate concerns are:

Do I try to correct the information directly, indirectly, or let it pass altogether?
If I do offer contradictory information, will I annoy or offend the other blogger?
Do I have a responsibility(to try to fix the info) to the other blogger and / or their readers as a fellow member of the AR community?

For those of you who asked if the facts 'in dispute' or subjective or objective...perfectly reasonable question. In this case the issue surrounds legality of rights of photographers and subjects and it is very clear in our community. Very little gray here.

Although I am technically a moderator of the group which the post was in, I'm there as a courtesy (thank you Cheryl Johnson) and I really just use that role to promote (star) other peoples articles which I think will be good for the group to read. Once in a long while I will remove a post that has absolutely zero to do with photography but that's as far as I go.

Lee, Michael, Maureen...you guys are great. The group is lucky to have you. Cheryl, nope. :)

To the fellow who just discovered the photography group - thanks for joining!

Many of you said you would offer some tactful feedback and appreciate the same in return. I think that's a wise approach, it's certainly civil. I do think there are folks out there that don't respond well to feedback of any kind...and sometimes you can get a feel for that by their style of writing.

Several of you also mentioned writing a counter blog with corrected facts. I've done this a few times in the past (waiting a bit so as not to be a direct rebuttal). I feel that's a good response but I may have still left the original readers armed with bad knowledge from the previous post.

Some of you advocated a more direct approach, posting directly on their blog etc. (still tactful of course). I've had people do this before on my blog and I was quite comfortable with it. That said, I do think a larger percentage of people would view this as more 'confrontational'. I rarely ever feel comfortable doing this out of consideration for the other person.

A few of you said 'damn the torpedo's, full speed ahead' call it out, another small group said ignore it altogether and move on, a few of you suggested deleting or reporting the post. If I felt the blog was completely spurious, maybe.

After reading all your comments and giving it further reflection, I think I'll give it a little time then send them a polite and private note. I may risk irritating them (or perhaps not at all) and in either case they'll be better educated.

Thanks everyone.

Cheers, -B

P.S. For those interested in the Giant Robotic Weasels, sadly I was unable to locate anything further on these invaluable creatures. I did a google search for the GRW's (the SEO people are really going to love this) and this very article had already been indexed by google and resides in the #1 spot. ;)

Also, please stop by the photography group for a visit if you get a chance. :)

I don't think there is any correct answer here or one that will lend to the outcome we all expect. I do agree with ARDELL that it needs to be in the comment section in a way that is respectful and shows examples. But really knowing how people function on here most days I would just let it go. Good Luck

Now I have to go optimize my website for robotic weasels to take advantage of the placement! (then again, I might not want that type of client to work with..........)

Mary "B"; Austin, Tx.

I have in the past requested in a comment the direct source of the incorrect information, preferably a link to verifiable information.

I have in the past sent a contact.

I have tried not to embarrass anyone, but I do think incorrect information needs to be corrected.

Others have more directly and openly pointed out the error, frequently with excessive rhetoric.

Not my style, but incorrect information should not be allowed unchecked.

My opinion.

Richard

I fortunately haven't run into such a problem...but if I did, I would find it hard not to comment that the information they are posting on the site was incorrect. Especially, since many people are searching the web and anyone can access the information.

Bryce-

If it was my Blog that was "full of holes" I would appreciate a comment stating your views and therefor we could initiate a dialog. But that is just me, I appreciate feedback though don't get as much as I would like here on AR, hope I am not opening the floodgates here =0)

I think it depends on the nature of the blog and the nature of the error.

Many issues are open to interpretation. What some might regard as fact is more a point of view. However, if you are talking about patent misinformation regarding legal issues - that's another matter. It should be addressed.

However, what Faina says is important. Some blogs are strictly for marketing. No one wants to be called "wrong" in front of potential clients and that may be why they are less than open to your suggestions.

Ibelieve that flagging is the best option to bring teir attention to the issue,

I both send and receive emails of error courtesy. An error is different from purposefully remaining wrong. REgards,

Bryce - how would you want others to deal with the same situation if it were you who had posted just plain wrong information?

Bryce, to be honest, I like your third option!;-)

On a more serious note, I personally would communicate privately my thoughts...to the perpetrator! ;-)

Bryce,

I think you have to keep all three options in your repitoir. Then you select the tool according to the individual you are addressing. it's not a one size/option fits all.

Bryce, I feel your pain. Have had the same experience and find that it is best to simply avoid the individual and write your own post. Sooner or later others will realize that they are full of hot air, egotistical and down right wrong. And if they don't...oh well.

Now, I'd love to know what was wrong about photography that you read and get the air cleared. No need to say what you read or by whom you read it just let us all know what the "right" thing is.

Bryce... you certainly have a decision here.... Go with what your heart says is the right thing to do. Either one should be fine. If you correct them.. then they would be correct.. if not.. you post a correct one.. theirs is still wrong.

SEP

2008

If it was minor, or a difference of opinion, I might post in comments. Something big I would probably send the correct info in an Email.

SEP

2008

You should let the blogger knows so he/she can correct it.

Great question with some great feedback. So what did you do, did you email this person or make a comment on their blog?

I would casually mention it in the comments...nicely of course. You never know what kind of response you are going to get back.

Emailing is always good.

Giant Robotic Weasels on AR got people thinking and discussing in a nice way. What valuable pets to have.

SEP

2008

Seeing it differently is different than being incorrect. Points of view cannot be incorrect. Actually doing something mechanically, methodically can be incorrect. OR do you just agree to disagree? I'm actually all for correcting them in the comments, but then that can set off a agressive tone as no one likes being corrected in public. How about a re-blog correction? You post the correction & reblog to the mistake? Let loose the robotic weasels on them!

SEP

2008

Bryce. I would email him and let him know exactly your thoughts. That would be the moral thing to do first. Royal..

SEP

2008

Set 'em straight....I like option 2. I had a guy who actually plaigerized an article of mine and so I just called him out on my blog and protected his name as a courtesy....but the "fake" name sounded awfully similar:)

I've reported one that looked like a scam to the powers that be on Active so they can keep an eye on it. There is some strange stuff out there....

--Donna Mitchell, Home Loan Consultant, www.donnasgotmoney.com

Bryce,I know what you mean. There's an agent who says she has been in real estate since 1974 and the neighborhood specialist. This same agent has actually made snide remarks that are false on her blog and been asked to remove them.

Sometimes life has a way of making a big world, a small world. Just this week I had a revealing session with Meg, a Realtor in our office. It seems Meg represented this so called agent with 34 years of real estate experience when she moved here from Minneapolis. This so called agent had never practiced real estate and got her license when she moved here just 5 years ago.

Yet, she advertises that she's been in real estate since 1974 and with all this vast experience she is now the neighborhood specialist... hmmm

My guess is that typically people who do stuff like don't feel good about themselves. Yes, it's false advertising and yes, I suppose I could come out and point the finger or even report her but I guess you have to ask yourself...is she or it really worth it?

So the dilemma is still unanswered...maybe you just have to follow your conscience.

SEP

2008

This generated a fair amount of discussion (super!). Thanks to all who commented and contributed. :)

Cheers, -B

SEP

2008

If they have a contact number, simply call and most people are very understanding.

I think the idea of a tactful comment, with a new blog that is better informed makes good sense!

This blog does not allow anonymous comments