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Is it Inappropriate for an Agent to Request a GFE?

Recently I've been searching for a Mortgage Broker and haven't found the Open-Arms reception I thought I should have. Each time I call, it's for a specific home with an interested Homebuyer. After providing all the details regarding the home and the FICO scores of my Buyer, I then request a GFE (Good Faith Estimate.)

Then the shuffle begins. I've heard everything from, "I'll get back to you" to "Well, how much are you making in the deal" and everything resembling disgust in between. What I'm not hearing is the reason why an Agent requesting a GFE is Inappropriate or Taboo.

My usual Mortgage Broker has been ill and may be Retiring Soon. I've been spoiled. I revel in the Great Response, Great Communication, Great Loans and Perfect Consistency. There isn't any Question or Explanation I need addressing that isn't received favorably. I only have Good Intentions.

I admit I'm weeding out Predatory Lenders when I request a GFE. I'm not

trying to wear that Hat by any means. I've even been told repeatedly not to

open that Can of Worms to reduce liability. However, if I'm Aware my Buyer is

getting a Bad Loan and don't Speak on it, I feel I should be held Responsible.

If the Mortgage Brokers are offended by my Request, perhaps I've saved my Buyers some Heartache.

I Can Live with that.

Buyers or Sellers, if you or Someone you know, is Thinking of Buying or Selling a Home in Richardson or surrounding areas, give me a Call. Experienced Out-of-the-Box Thinking Realtor with Guaranteed Results.

Richardson, Plano, Dallas, Garland, Rowlett, Irving, Mesquite, Dallas County, Collin County

Posted by LS Rogers Realty on 09/16/2008 07:29 PM

Comments (73)

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73 Comments on Is it Inappropriate for an Agent to Request a GFE?

SEP

2008

Perhaps they feel you are being too nosey? You could always give the mortgage person the info along with the client's fax or e-mail address and ask them to send it to the client directly. Tell them (nicely) the client to waiting for the GFE before moving forward.

This industry is all about relationships. My loan officer ALWAYS send me a GFE when she sends it to my clients. Gotta love a broker that brings up our commission like we are equals!

UMMMM, nope you can call me anytime and I will be happy to provide you with one. Usually within 30 mins (depends on what I have happening, if I took the call then I can just punch one up), BUT PLEASE REMEMBER THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN YOUR CLIENTS CREDIT NOR HAVE I REVIEWED THEIR FINANCES, ETC ETC......... Again, I will be happy to, but you have to remember those things. To be honest the only thing that may really change is the rate due to score. Also, I will caution you that FICO scores vary from day to day and week to week..... so while you may be close 20 points is 3/8 to rate

ps..... I really dont care about how much you make

Hello Trunda,

I would recommend that you ask your client for a copy of the GFE that the Mortgage Professional provided them. Legally a mortgage professional is not allowed to give this or any other personal information out unless the borrower "OKs" it. It falls under the 'Privacy Act".

You also made acomment about "Predatory Lenders". I would watch were you go in that regard. When your client consults with a Mortgage Professional, the details of the potential financing are between the borrower and the Borker/lender. If you are looking at the GFE to see "how much are these people charging my client", thenyou may be mis-informed. The broker may be charging a higher than normal fee because the client will only qualify for a loan at a rate which does not pay any yieldspread, therefore they are making their money from the client. Many details go into a mortgage person deciding how much to charge or collect in yield spread.

For you to decide 'how much" is appropriate for the broker to make is not your business. The broker can just as easy tell the borrower they are paying you too much.

Don't forget, the mortgage person is the one bringing the money to the table so that your client can buy the home and you make a paycheck.

Instead of concentrating on the "$$" on the GFE, I would pay more attention to the type of loan, who the lender is and how much information did the broker gather from the borrower to make their decision of financibility. Let the borrower decide how much they will pay for the services.

Sean Allen

I don't think there's anything inappropriate with asking that they send your client a GFE asap, but directly to you, it may be. The client could share the info with you when they recieve it. You also need to be careful about advising them on which loan/lender to take. That really may be a can of worms. Call your local board and see what the pitfalls would be.

Hi Trunda. You owe it to your client to review their GFE before they commit to a lender. Lender fees vary, so it's important for you to get your client the best rate with the lowest fees possible. I'm talking normal, routine fees. Certainly if the borrower has "issues" they may be required to pay a higher rate or origination/discount, but isn't that the exception to the rule? Also, it's a necessary evil to know what the closing costs are when negotiating who pays what, when, and where with buyer and seller.

You aren't doing anything wrong in my book, but perhaps the buyer client should be the one to request the GFE. Then THEY can deliver it to you!

Good luck.

Trunda, you haven't been spoiled. You have been dealing with a great lender/mortgage broker. I just had a deal where the buyer's requested closing cost assistance. The good faith came over with the contract, but not until we requested the GFE. When we reviewed the information, the mortgage broker was charging .5 point for loan origination and I had two buyer's pre-approved with GFE's in hand, under the same program, at the same rate, but no origination fee!

They wanted $8K in closing costs but when I ran the numbers on my spread sheet, the figure came up to only $4,200! Now, go figure!!!

There were junk fees included in that GFE and the rate dropped that day! We talked to the buyer's agent about it and asked if she was aware of the rate drop? She was but that the lender said that they don't make adjustments. My foot! We gave her the names of two mortgage brokers and her client talked with them and gave her lender one more shot. He brought the rate down to 5.875% and reduced the closing costs to be reasonable.

I disagree with Sean Allen on that area when it comes to paying attention to closing costs. It isn't about digging into the lenders pocketbook. It's about being fair and competitive like the other lenders.

However, if it is your client, you must respect their privacy and the GFE must come from your clients, not the lender. If the lender does submit that information to you without your client's consent, that is an invasion of privacy and both you and the lender have violated the privacy act.

Trunda,

I always want a copy of the GFE so I know hwt is going on, it is our job to know. That information should be given freely and gratefully.

I just recently reviewed a GFE for my buyer (at their request) only to find out that the escrow for taxes and insurance was off by over $200 per month? Their payment was going to be $1,500 a month instead of the $1,275 they could afford. This is usually the only thing I look for unless the buyers ask for my opinion on fees.

I don't know if I would call it inappropriate but I can certainly understand the Mortgage Broker being reluctant to give one to you. It sounds like you had a wonderful relationship with a broker and I'm sure that took some time to develop.

Here are my thoughts. Giving a broker the FICO scores and property information is not enough for them to determine the loan product that they will place the borrower in. Based on what you tell them they may think that the borrower qualifies for an FHA loan or perhaps some state sponsored First Time Home Buyer program. You are not telling them the income and debt ratios of the borrower, you are not giving them specific credit depth information or specific delinquency information. You are not telling them length of time at their current job or whether or not the client pays their rent with a check. All of these items could potentially change the type of loan, rate and fees that the borrower qualifies for. They may give you a GFE with the best of intentions but they cannot divulge many of the reasons why the final numbers differ from the original GFE. Those darn privacy laws.

Lets say the borrower has a 630 credit score, 5% to put down and the seller is willing to pay 6% of their closing costs. What if, after the broker quoted FHA rates and fees they find that the DTI is higher than the max limits for that product or that there was a number of consumer delinquencies in the last year. The broker would not be able to give you specific information if they had to switch the loan to FNMA and the rate went up because of the credit score.

I would feel very uncomfortable putting rates and fees on anything with my name and my company's name without having interviewed the borrower. I do think having a frank discussion about what they normally charge and what types of situations would increase or decrease those fees is completely fair. "I typically charge a processing fee of $550 and 2% of the loan amount. The customer can either pay that up front or the lender can pay it to me in yield spread premium with the client paying a higher interest rate or some combination of the two. I usually charge a total of 3% on manufactured homes and investment properties because they require significantly more work. Of course I would love to earn your referral business and might consider lowering those fees if we mutually decide to work together." that would be the type of response I would think you should expect and would get from a reputable Mortgage Broker.

Good for you, Trunda. I usually ask to see a GFE too. We have to hold them accountable.

Maybe they don't want you to know all the junk fees they are charging, or that they are not providing estimated title company closing cost.

If they are good at what they do they should and will provide the GFE.

Trunda: I think the problem begins with the fact that you are searching for Broker. That's a middle man. Look for a mortgage lender. If you have PNC Banks where you live, call a local branch and ask for their mortgage LENDER. I work with PNC out here in Virginia and have had great success. Getting a copy of the GFE is truly no big deal once you find the right lender.

Good post, Trunda... I agree with some of the other posts that you should let the lender send the GFE to your client and then ask your clients for a copy. That way, your client has agreed to you having a copy, the lender doesn't feel that you are interfering with their job, and you still have the opportunity to help your clients choose the best lender for their situation...

JILL That's the message I got. If I'm shopping for business, I expect more.

ELLIE That's what I'm used to and hope I don't have to start settling for any less.

JOE That's perfectly acceptable. Good for you. An estimate is just that, an estimate. So it makes even less sense to me not to receive one.

SEAN ALLEN Touchy subject for you? You are the "type" I've been encountering and stay away from.

I don't offer any personal information outside of the FICO scores and merely shopping for referrals shouldn't be illegal. You probably would have a problem with that as well. If you act in the best interest of our mutual client, my involvement shouldn't be offensive. If additional costs associated with the loan arises, it wouldn't be hard to explain your position.

TONI Thanks for your comment. To cut down on so much confusion, it seems as though going through my client would be best. I don't advise them on which loan to take, no more than I would on what an offering price should be. I give them all the necessary information for them to make an educated decision.

PAT We see eye to eye on this! Informing my client and knowing how to structure the contract is my focus.

BARB Thanks for providing a perfect example. I wouldn't request a GFE from the lender already representing our mutual client. Interfering with existing relationships is not my intentions.

Trunda - For a few months I have been a member on Active Rain and have not come across too many Realtors soliciting lenders. Now over the last week, I have come across two. I guess this has to do with today's environment. Many lenders/brokers are going out of business (as you know).

There is nothing wrong with assisting your buyer to ensure they are getting a great deal and not being taken advantage of. Good luck with your search!

You may just need a new lender . . . good lenders have no problem sharing the information with you. I will make it a point to write this in on our Buyer Broker Contract for the buyer's authorization, just like we have that written in on the Contract for Sale to obtain information on the Seller's mortgage if necessary. If the buyer gets more than one estimate, you can let them make the decision on which lender to choose, but usually, it is a no-brainer. The lender interviewing the buyer first if understandable as I would not want to do seller's net sheets for sellers who would not meet with me.

My answer would be yes with all the information you have given them buy you could also just as easily ask for the "APR". That is the interest rate with the fees thrown in. If the rate is 6% and they give you an "APR" of 8% and the others are 7% then you know they are high.

To me your jobb first is to take care of the client by all means. So I want to commend and encourage you to continue placing your client first

No, I don't think it's inappropriate. I review each and every GFE for our buyer clients. They pay me to protect and promote their best interests. If something looks out of line then it's questioned. I've been around long enough to know there are always variables but I also agree with you that if it's above board, then it's not hard to explain to the client. There is precious little about our clients I don't know... buyers and sellers.

Trunda this is certainly the best way to weed out those that are less than 100% honest. There is nothing worse than being charged a bunch of junk fees by someone looking to take advantage of a person who does not know any better.

Trunda .... It isn't a touchy subject at all..... I haven't entertained a residential mortgage in the past 11 months, I stricky do commercial.

Sean Allen

Great post. I have asked the client many times (when working with someone other than my usuals) and they are like, " a good faith what". Next call to broker who had the nerve to get mad at me. Hello, isn't a law that you send the gfe within three days of pulling credit? I think so!

ROBIN I didn't think it was stepping on any toes either.

BRYANT That's a great point why, at the very least, I feel the need to scan the GFE.

BETH I respect your answer. You have no idea. Opposed to politely or not-so-politely telling me to back off because what happens to my client is none of my business, taking the time to develop relationships makes all the difference in the world.

Obviously IFS knows his job. A GFE is private. It needs to be released by the client for others to view. There is also the problem of a broker or banker waisting their time with you telling your clients that they are charging to much or that the rate is too high when you do not know their credit scores or income available for using towards payments, called DTI. You also do not know their financial history and what type of income they are using.

What if a client tells you they have been in business for themselves for more than 2 years and have a gross income of $120,000 per year? What can they afford? Is this a Full doc just becasue they can provide 2 years tax returns?

What is their LTV compaired to their CLTV? What is thier DTI after taxes?

Most LO's can provide estimated GFEs all day long based on the scenario you tell them, but I will tell you from experience, it is usually a waste of time and sometimes gets your clients and you thinking they can afford alot more or less than they really can. You can always ask, but it can do more harm than good, and that is why alot of LO's think it is a waste of their time. Especially if you don't relly understand the mortgage process and they types of loans available to your client.

If you are representing the buyer, meaning the buyer is your signed on the dotted line client, then you have a fiduciary responsibility to them. Consult your buyer to compare GFEs not just interest rates. While it is true that the GFE can only be release to the buyer, I always offer to review the GFE with them. Also, in this market I would stop shopping through mortgage brokers and find a few solid lenders to work with that are reliable. I refer a couple of underwriters at reputable banks so my buyers can skip the middleman and go right to the source. You can get the best rate in town from Jo Blow mortgage broker but if the money doesn't get to the table at closing it does you no good.

In my opinion, the short answer is yes.

I think it is appropriate for your borrower to give one or more mortgage originators all the information they need in order to provide a GFE that's worth the paper it's printed on. The LO really needs to talk to the borrower to understand their situation. Additionally, in today's market LOs face increasingly capricious guidelines and are loathe to make promises without a complete understanding of the borrower's situation. Then there's the issue of the privacy law.

Hi Trunda,

In my experience when a lender won't quickly & willingly provide a GFE, they have something to hide and it's usually not pretty. When the lender will promptly provide a GFE, then your mutual customer is probably going to pay fewer closing costs AND get better service regarding the mortgage loan process.

I wouldn't dream of completing a transaction for any of my buyers without reviewing a copy of the Good Faith (especially my first-time homebuyers).

Good for you!

Keep calling until you get a mortgage broker that sends you one.

I don't hmmm or hawwww........

I simply state to the realtor: "Please ask MY CLIENT for a copy". That is a lot easier than bothering MY CLIENT to have them call me to give their permission to forward an estimate done in good faith to a realtor

Does my radar go up when a realtor asks for a GFE? Heck yeah!!!!! Because that is a sign that the realtor is 'steering' 90% of the time(in my experience). Of course, I am not judging you personally..... I am judging the 90%.

I really feel for this young single mother who i counseled recently. She was 'steered' by her realtor and made a bad decision. The realtor's 'buddy' lender told her what she wanted to hear. I told her the truth. In the end.... she realized her mistake and was too embarrased to come back to me. Her confession came later.... when she referred a coworker to me rather than the lender who did her loan. <= speaks volumes!!

While some may have their client's best interst at heart.... most don't! They only care about 'the deal'

Trunda-I don't think its inappropriate for you to request a GFE but here is the problem with that. First, rates can change several times a day (we had 3 today), do you really know what all the fees are and what is a good loan what is a bad loan? Do you know what the pricing hits are? When it comes down to this makes it very difficult to compare and it makes the lender your pricing out difficult to compete. Because it's just a GFE and your not locking in today why not shave the costs and the rate....some lender will always come in better...period.

It's my job to make sure that your buyer understands the loan, the fees, what are lender fees, what are the other fees (how they are manipulated) and how to read the truth in lending. My suggestion in finding a new lender that spoils you (or just does their job), interview them find out how they go through the process in presenting their loan documents to a potential buyer. You will find that we go through similar processes in a round about way. I would not be focused on rates or price....as a lender we are a direct reflection of your business. If your clients are happy with you and the lender you will have raving fans, you will be surprised that people will pay more to make sure that things goes well. I'm not saying that I rip people off, I'm not the cheapest, I'm not the most expensive lender BUT I very seldom get shopped. People like my service from the start and so do the agents I work with.

Another idea, speak to your current lender and see if she can recommend other lenders with a similar style. Best of luck!

Sheila a good LO would know better than to share information with you without the clients written permission on their forms. Because your forms do not give the LO permission to release that information. Are you a mortgage expert? What are your qualifications for explaining loan types and programs?

Michael I am pretty sure that you are not dealling with the underwriters directly with either a banker or broker. I was a branch manager for a broker and now am a branch manager for a banker. I would be let go if I gave you the underwriters contact info.

Jackie good comment, you are obviously a mortgage person. I could tell the difference right away by the comments.

Realtors think it is their business. Mortgage people (good ones that know there job and fiduciary responsibility) consult the client. If the client wants to share information, it is up to them. But it is a good idea if the Realtor really knows and understands mortgages, and you can't understand it by looking at just a GFE.

In most states, a banker does not have to disclose the YSP, so if their is no origination fee, no broker fee, and no discount, it appears that the Lo is working for free. If so, would the Realtor also work for free?

Trunda, this is an excellent post! I love reading about what everyone has to say on this issue. I will keep an eye on this.

Have a great day!

I give one to the realtor so they write the offer correctly with regard to the financing portion. The rate I put is the maximum rate. The amount I charged is the maximum they can ask for from the seller. The amount I put on there is the amount they qualify for with regard to the monthly payment and the mortgage amount and the salesprice.

It is not taboo to ask. It is how you ask. If I know the realtor I'm happy to provide it. If I feel like I'm fighting for the client and the realtor is questioning me, (when 99% of the time I had the buyer first) it bugs me. It's all about the relationship like someone else has pointed out.

Good luck!!

Jennifer Lamm

I don't have a problem providing a good faith estimate to the client and letting them forward it to the realtor. I let the client know if the realtor has requested it and ask that they share, and just let them know that I can't legally divulge that information to a third party. The realtors that I have formed relationships with understand that in the State of Georgia I cannot release info to a third party, so I let them know that I have provided it to the client and they have it. I think that the awful thing here is a lot of realtors think that a loan officer is out to take advantage of a client. I agree that junk fees are ridiculous, but origination fees and processing fees should be comensurate with the amount of work that goes into a file. We have to pay for credit reports, overnighting documents back and forth to the client and the lender, fixing things on credit, etc. etc. etc. All of these things come out of our pockets whether or not the loan closes. It really makes more sense if loan officers and realtors work as a team to make sure that both sides are providing what is in the best interest of the client. Cheaper is not always better. I provide quality service, so therefore I should get paid for it. I thnk the reason a lot of loan officers don't like to share the information is because people take for granted what we do. A lot of real estate agents don't realize our value, or the amount of work that we have to put into some of the closings. I thnk the best way to avoid the problem is to make sure you and the loan officer know in advance what you are expecting. Tell them what kind of closing figure you are seeking, so there is no confusion down the line, unless something unexpected happens.

Good for you. I've never done that. I let the buyers choose their own lender and terms.

Jennifer Have you ever seen a P & S? No realtor makes an offer based on the rate, or even puts the rate on the P & S. What about your fiduciary responsibility to your client. You responsibility to your client. Your just kissing up to the realtor and opening yourself to a disclosure lawsuit.

Trunda, An accurate good faith estimate takes some time (30 minutes maybe) to prepare. So, I can see why a busy Mortgage Consultant does not want to prepare a GFE every time a Realtor makes an offer. I know I made several offers the last time I purchased a home and my lender gave me a general idea of what closing costs would be. Also, I work with many borrowers who make several offers. I do my job to inform my clients of what to expect.

Frankly, the difference between a $130,000 house and a $131,000 house really isn't a big enough difference to warrant another GFE. Is it necessary? I gave a GFE of $125,000 on a house to my clients and when the deal wasn't accepted the Realtor requested a GFE for $125,000 on a different house. Come on? I don't like to put any extra work if I don't have to. Just as a Realtor doesn't want to show the same 30 times before making an offer. (Somethings are just part of doing business)

Common sense has to come into play some time. I know you want to make your client feel your are doing your job. But, I think an verbal estimate is appropriate until the client has an accepted offer. Plus, the client is required by law to receive a GFE within 3 day of application. All the information you need to determine if the lender is fair and honest is on that GFE. Why do you need 3, 4 or 5 GFE's to make that determination?

To answer your question: It is not appropriate for you to every ask for a GFE (unless your client signs a waiver for you to recieve a copy); however, it is always appropriate for your client to request one. I just would have your clients question whether it is necessary?

Washington State realtors must disclose if they are acting as both a real estate agent AND a loan officer on a loan. Remember, real estate agents CANNOT participate in any way on an FHA loan. A key word in this disclosure is participate!

I am sure that FHA will soon define this more, but until then, it is a dangerious bridge to attempt to cross. The disclosure does state a Realtor can not receive any compensation at all, but the word participate is still there.

As a lender due to disclosure laws I don't think I would provide one. If I as a Realtor wanted to help the buyer I would ask for a copy from them and maybe review it. I have four lenders on my team and I suggest the buyer compare at least two. But I don't want to get into a lenders business. I know they know there business just like I know mine. I don't want a lender practicing real estate either.

AMEN CHARLES! AND I RESPECT THAT THE REALTOR KNOWS THEIR JOB AND THEIR RESPONSIBILITY.

Trunda If your client wants discount points, do you know the difference between 1 point and 1 bps? What if they tell you they want to buy down the rate 2 percent, do you know if the program they qualify for alows 2%. Does that mean that if the rate quoted is 5.5%, they can buy it down to 3.5%

Trunda,

There are currently two featured posts right now from mortgage professionals explaining how loans are priced. One is by Jeff Belonger and the other Jason Sardi. I suggest you read them. There was nothing at all wrong about the response provided by Sean Allen of International Financing Solutions yet you dismissed him as one of those lenders instead of listening to what he had to say. Perhaps you've had a bad experience I do not know. But for the most part the advice from mortgage professionals in this thread is accurate, although it may not be what you want to here.

Brokers that promise to fax offer a GFE so you can rate shop without taking an application are doing everyone a disservice. They are always going to be quoted on BEST CASE SCENARIO and based on information provided that may or may not be accurate. When you steer your client to the lender who provided the lowest rate and fees based on the GFE and you find out the day before closing that those numbers are changed no one is going to be happy.

To put it in Realtor terms, how would you feel if a client was shopping for an agent to list a house and his only deciding factor was commission charged? He calls 3 agents, two charge 6% and one charges 4.9%. Who gets the business? The discount broker, who probably will do nothing more than stick a sign in the yard and put the home in the MLS, when your 6% included a full comprehensive marketing plan and proven results.

Or another example, a client decides who to list with only by calling agents and asking what the home will sell for. He doesn't give you the address, doesn't invite you to see the property, only provides you a property description and the general info. Would you quote a listing price? No. Well this is exactly what you are asking the lender to do when you are asking for a GFE in order to shop for referrals.

Michelle

http://activerain.com/blogsview/694177/To-pay-points-or

http://activerain.com/blogsview/689164/Give-me-the-best

heres the simple answer to your post, if a Realtor or Anybody else is calling on behalf of the actual client and is just getting prelim numbers then they will just get that a GFE that is basically very GENERIC because its not tied to a real borrowers application, what are the credit explanations? what type of loan we going for? do you have the SSN and DOB to pull credit? do we have all docs to prove assets and income? So unless I run a full complete application the GFE's will be very generic, its only fair. I am sorry you can't find a loan officer who can provide GFE's on the fly, hope you find a good loan officer!

Your blog has brought up some great discussion and this shows some spunk I like it. So it sounds like your looking for a new mortgage person to be a business contact for you. So what I would start with is asking past clients of yours that did not work with your mortgage person but had their own for a referral to them. I would then do a call with them see if their is a personality and ethics match. Then I would set up a meeting with them and bring a GFE and closing hud from one of your deals that you did with your old lender for one of your clients. YES PLEASE BLACK OUT THE NAME AND ADDRESS for legal privacy reasons. Then review this HUD with the mortgage person and tell them that you think these fees are normal and fair and ask them there thoughts on your feelings.

The bottom line is anyone can throw a GFE together as an outline but the reality is like others posted things can vary from program to program. In the end rates differ with the market. You should again be looking for somone reasonable on fees but also someone that has a very HIGH customer service rating and approach.

I am sure you do not discount your fees to get listings and you most likely sell against people that do. In the end we all want referrals so we must proivide reasonable and competetive rates and closing costs. But again the service and communication will make the diffence to the client. Let me know your thoughts

Try asking them for a CV, bio, or resume.

Trundra... I ask for a GFE all the time.. I want to know so I can best serve my clients.. This is a great tool for both the buyer and the seller

I always have my clients ask for the GFE after the mortgage broker has had a chance to interview them and then we go over it together. While I may not know as much about their loan as the mortgage broker, I can usually figure out the costs to my client and suggest a second opinion (another mortgage company) if costs look excessive. Sometimes it pays to shop around. This decision is always up to my client.

You are on the right track. Everyone who is on my list of "recommended" lenders is ready willing and able to provide a GFE -- and will do so based on different senarios. I intereview the various lenders who approach me and beside asking for some assurances about their business practices and the health of their companies, they must provide GFE and willing to spend time with buyer. Good luck.

Congrats on the feature....

I wanted to come back and claim this italicized/copied post as mine. I was logged out for some unknown reason.... the grape juice I was drinking must have turned hard. ;-)

it happens

I don't hmmm or hawwww........

While some may have their client's best interst at heart.... most don't! They only care about 'the deal'

Really... very good topic. We have different rules in each of our disciplines; (i am speaking to you as a realtor, not as a Mortgage Loan officer or Stager that you seem to be all of).

I guess I'm spoiled too. My Mortgage Broker is a jewel. It's just as important to establish a rapport with a lender as it is the homebuyer(s). All parties need to work together as a team, in order to get the transaction closed and everybody paid.

A lot of mortgage brokers, and I used to be one so I speak from first hand knowledge, won't go through the effort for a GFE unless they have a solid idea that they're working with the client. But the client should ask for one and not instantly on Day 1. Maybe within three days of communication, 10-03 in hand, credit run. I know that I have sent current clients to Lending Tree just to see what happens and have told them to ask for GFEs. (I don't do loans anymore because I like sleeping too much.)

It has been amazing to see the response from both retail and wholesale people through the Lending Tree system. Those who provide a GFE in 24 hours or less are my kind of lender. Personally, I would only prepare a GFE if I had checked bank statements with my own eyes and run credit. Commitment is mutual. And I don't think I ever ran one and didn't get the loan. It will not go to you, it goes to the borrower. Please don't ask for it yourself. Have the buyer ask for it.

Trunda - If I were you, I'd go with the advice of one contributor here. I'd contact your current broker and ask them for a recommendation. Lending is a small world and we all know someone who we trust and with whom we share a similar vision.

In your original post you said, "If the Mortgage Brokers are offended by my request, perhaps I've save my Buyers some heartache." In my case, it's not about being offended, it's about not setting myself up to fail.

If Matt (an agent I have a close relationship with) calls and asks for a GFE and gives me the basics, I'll provide him with one. In the states of Idaho and Washington (where I'm licensed) it's not considered an application until I get names, SSNs, and dates of birth (at the very least). So, if I don't have that information, I'm not violating anyone's privacy. Now, if I have that info, it's considered an application and other laws apply - as others have accruately pointed out here already.

However, if an agent I don't do business with calls and asks the same thing? It's usually a waste of time. They are only shopping around and, chances are, I won't hear back - so why bother?

Best of luck in your search.

Clearly Trunda you had a good realtionship with a professional broker in the past and hopefully will find another soon. I myself as a broker enjoy a teriffic relationship with a number of Realtors and do not hesitat to provide them with a copy of the GFE at the time I provide it to the the buyer, with their consent of course. If there is nothing to hide then there is nothing to hide. I make it clear to all parties what the loan program is and why, in my opinion, that is the best option. When the buyer, Realtor (sometimes both agents), and the broker are able to work as a team the transaction goes more smoothly to the benefit of all. Clearly you know what you are looking at and looking for on a Good Faith Estimate and I believe if you saw anything troubling you would ask the broker for an explanation prior to telling the buyer that they were being taken advantage of by a preditory lender.

Trunda, you really struck a chord with your post. There really is some great discussion in the comments.

SEP

2008

Had to come back and congratulate you on the featured post. This subject has started quite a few discussions.

Many brokers don't like it when Realtors call for GFEs because it is a signal to the mortgage broker that the Realtor is steering or shopping their loan in the vast majority of the cases. Others find it offensive, particularly those of us who do care about OUR CLIENTS.

The Realtor isn't providing financing so they shouldn't be discussing the GFE. The Realtors job is to sell the home. Unless you are a lender and know all the specific details about the borrowers credit, income, and assets there is no way for you to legitimately review a GFE with any level of certainty. I have lost count of the times I had borrowers steered by Realtors without knowing all the facts only to have to crawl back because the "in house" guy or their "trusted referral" source couldn't do the deal.

Brokers are often defensive of the GFE because when a Realtor ask for it, in some ways you are reducing out valuable services down to an interest rate and closing costs. As many above have stated, mortgages are a commodity, however, the expertise of a good mortgage broker is not.

Personally, I find it offensive because I go into every new deal with the attitude that it is an opportunity to forge new relationships. I am not immediately questioning the professionalism of the others involved and asking the Realtor the first time I talk to them to send over their buyer's agency agreement so I can review it to ensure the Realtor is qualified or not charging too much.

I also want to ensure my clients are receiving "the best deal" from their Realtor. However, as a lender I am not double checking the Realtors CMA or whispering in MY CLIENT's ear that the Realtor could have negotiated a better price or saying call "my guy, he will take a co-broke of 1.5% and rebate the rest" which I am sure most Realtors would find offensive. Therefore, reverse the situation and it gives a clear picture as to why many mortgage brokers are defensive.

It all comes down respecting the other parties.

After reading the majority of the post it appears the Mortgage side mostly opposes giving out the GFE without talking to the borrower and the Realtors think we mortgage originators should give it out regardless.

If a realtor, whom I did not know, were to call and request a GFE based on assumptions of their client I would say no for the simple fact that an application has not been made, credit has not been preformed or reviewed, assets and liabilities have not been determined. Without this information the GFE is worthless as well as a Notice of Loan Approval. Sending out a GFE/Approval Notice based on assumptions dilutes the creditability of the Loan Officer.

I completely agree with the following statement;

Paul

Chuck

We are the largest real estate company in the area and thus also have an in house mortgage company. That mortgage company is backed by Guaranty Bank. We have two underwriters working in our office that underwrite all of their loan packages. Yes, I deal directly with the underwriters. I'm not sure what goes on at your bank or brokerage. This is the way we operate and it works quite well.

Thanks for ALL of your Wonderful Comments.

Originally all I had to go on was Evasiveness, Defensiveness, and Personal Attacks. I could only draw one Conclusion from that. Now, with the Help of those who Offered, I understand the Position some LO's take.

SEP

2008

I think it's the agent's job to get the GFE! The lenders I use provide it within minutes of talking to the client, and once we have a contract they narrow it down. I had no idea it was an issue. Silly me!

SEP

2008

Patricia, can we please have the names of your lenders that, without delay, send you the clients personal information with out their permission. They need to be aware that their is an information disclosure form that the client signs that gives permission to 3rd parties and then they need to disclose any 3rd parties that they want to or not include.

Michael To answer your question, I work for a Bank now, but I previously worked for a brokerage. If your company ownes the in house lender, it is probable a broker that brokers loans to the bank...then the bank would underwrite them. Guaranty Bank is an actual bank and has branches. If it doesn't say Guarenty Bank on their door, they are a Broker, if it does, they are a bank and I am sure your Real Estate Company doesn't own them.

SEP

2008

Reading these responses has been very enlightening, thanks for asking the question. I've been fortunate to have some wonderful lenders to work with. Knock on wood...

OCT

2008

This is a good topic. I see very good points from both sides. Kudos for the gold star.

OCT

2008

When I bought my home, I expected my realtor to get involved in every aspect. So I say way to go! You're the type of realtor I'd want representing me.

I do this too, but I'm not testing new mortgage people. I do it with the regular group of bankers/brokers who I regularly refer to. What I do is a bit different.

I refer my buyer to several lenders. The lenders KNOW at this point to call me whenever one of my clients calls them. After the discussion with the lender (lender + buyer) about the house, various products, then the lender calls me and (1) confirms they're qualified for the house and (2) explains the loan product they recommend so I have all the details. Finally, I ask the lender to fax me a GFE so I can go over it with the buyer (and honestly to help me fill out the lender fees on the Buyer's Estimate of CLosing Costs sheet).

Sheri did you ask your Realtor how to change the toilet bowl ring?

"Point" I am not a plumber, but I have changed a ring before. But that still doesn't make me a plumber. I am not sure I did it right, but it doesn't leak now...which still doesn't mean I did it right...maybe in a year or two it might leak and I will find out I did it wrong...but then it is too late and the damage will be done and I will have no recourse. Same with the electrical...just because I can change a light bulb, doesn't make me a real electrician. Though I can always pretend to be an expert. And can probable convince you that I know what I am talking about.

NOV

2008

I've never found a Good Faith Estimate to have any good or faith to it, and I always thought "estimate" should be relatively close. Nope.

NOV

2008

The Mortgage is the Broker or Bankers job. The sale of real Estate is the Realtors job. A Realtor seeking out a Loan Officer to "stear" their clients to because the Loan Officer gives the clients private information to the Realtor...can you say "RESPA"?

Just because someone is going 20 mph over the speed limit, and doesn't get caught, doesn't mean that it is ok to do it.

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LS Rogers Realty

Richardson, TX

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LS Rogers Realty

Address: 9090 Skillman, Dallas, TX, 75243

Office Phone: (214) 403-1667

Cell Phone: (214) 235-8930

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