User7_13_t Jonathan Washburn
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 Rich Barton and Lloyd Frink appear to have a brilliant piece of real estate disintermediation on their hands. The gurus oiling the Zillow machine have just launched a new feature, "Advertise another agent's listings".

How it works:
Agents can click on a house in the Zillow database (includes all houses via tax records and satellite imaging) and after creating an account, advertise that the property is currently for sale. The benefit to the agent is that their contact information will display as a contact for that house. Joel Burslem author of FutureOfRealEstateMarketing writes: “Now anyone can now identify a home as being for sale. The idea is that buyers' agents or new agents with some time on their hands will step up to bat and start identifying properties on behalf of the busy listing agents.”

Conflict:
Hold a moment. Can agents randomly advertise other's listings?? If this new feature sends up red flags, you're in good company. Traditionally, advertising another's listings without specific permission is against MLS rules. For example, note Northwest MLS Rule #190:

“Advertising Another Member’s Listing Prohibited. No member shall, without first obtaining the listing member’s or subscriber’s written permission (including email), advertise a property listed by another member in any manner, including but not limited to, display, reader board,   newspaper, flyer or other publication, except that a member may republish another member’s listings on the Internet in a manner consistent with NWMLS Rules and policies so long as the listing is approved by the owner for Internet publication.”

  Zillow appears to be attempting a semantic maneuver around this issue. Agents are merely "reporting" homes currently for sale, as opposed to acting as the advertiser. From Zillow.com: “If you report a home is for sale you get your name, a thumbnail picture, and a link to your profile -- for free.”

You can almost hear the well-meaning Buyers' Agent's defense to the MLS Board, “I didn’t advertise another agents listing. I just told Zillow that I noticed the 4000 property’s were for sale in my city. It is not my fault that they added my name, image, and a link to my profile page on every one of the properties' pages. I did it for the community! Plus according to Zillow, 'Special space on the page is reserved for homeowners and listing agents who might subsequently enter information on that home.'”

Implications:
Zillow's new development has the potential to alter the real estate industry as we know it by bypassing the agent centered MLS system. If only a handful of agents across the country pursue this as a competitive advantage, within months or even weeks Zillow may secure for themselves the position as a top listings aggregator.

Takeaway:
“Don’t ever underestimate the competition”. Zillow's leadership is intelligent and perceptive at how to reach their aims as they move into the future. Zillow's position raises moral/ethical questions. Is it time for the MLS to open up listing data to all tech businesses, or should that data be available for publication only by licensed real estate agents/brokers? If the MLS determines that the listings should in fact remain under real estate agent control, then the MLS should not be misled by Zillow doubletalk. This new feature is all about allowing agents to advertise other agent's listings without their permission. 

Is it time to open up the listings information?  Realogy (previously Cendent) just made the move to syndicate all of their listings to Trulia and Googlebase. What should our role be?

 

91 Comments on Zillow launches "Advertise another agent's listing" feature

This is shameful and goes against the intent and spirit of the MLS rules.

04/04/2007 01:20 PM by Don Paradis (Realty Executives Metro South)


Wow. This is an aggressive new feature. I am so curious how this is going to play out, specifically in the Northwest MLS. Because the NWMLS is very diligent about fining & penalizing agents who violate rule #190. Hmmm. This is something to watch. Thanks for sharing.

04/04/2007 01:26 PM by Debi Braulik (Tacoma Real Estate) (Keller Williams Realty)


This is going to be a mess.  Some excellent blogs out there in the blogosphere about this.  Definitely can be a source of liability, wouldn't you think?

04/04/2007 01:31 PM by Leigh Brown Charlotte NC Broker/Owner (RE/MAX Signature Properties)


Seems there may be a simple answer to this -- the listing agent can check a box which gives permission (or does not give permission).  It seems like the MLS, the greater the exposure to the consumers bodes well for both the buyer and the seller.  When I print out listing sheets for my clients - it has my picture, office and contact information and at the bottom, it notes the listing agent/office -- I think there could be an simple answer to avoid any mess.

04/04/2007 01:35 PM by Joan Whitebook, ABR,e-Pro,CEBA Southern New Hampshire (Buyer's Option Realty Services)


Great post.  This is something all Realtors will be dealing with as the number of listing sites and services expand.  

04/04/2007 01:39 PM by Ronnie Roach (Wells Fargo Home Mortgage)


GREAT POST!  This just takes the cake.  I was fussing about not joining and putting my listings on it.  I guess they showed me...they will let another agent do it for me. 

I see a storm coming....

04/04/2007 01:43 PM by Griffin Georgia Real Estate - Jessica Wynn Horton (Jessica Horton & Assoc.)


I don't know what to think about all this stuff. There seems to be an awful lot of new websites that are real estate related.

04/04/2007 01:45 PM by Christy Powers - Pooler, Savannah Real Estate Agent (Keller Williams Coastal Area Partners)


So how does this benefit the consumer?  They call John Q Public about the listing which he has never been inside of, and knows little more than it is listed on the Zillow Database?

The Zillow guys should stick to booking travel packages online.

04/04/2007 01:46 PM by Michael Byrne (Gateway Funding Diversified Mortgage Services)


Paul, Zillow currently has over 70 million properties across the U.S. in their database.  Any agent, or any non-agent, for that matter can identify any property in their database as being for sale.  (This was in reply to a comment by Paul - as I was posting my reply he removed his comment.)

04/04/2007 01:53 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


It should be very interesting to see how all this unfolds. I was playing around with it a bit this morning. The property Q&A was interesting to say the least. Can anyone say abuse? I think I will "claim" my neighbors houses and bad mouth them or better yet build up my neighborhood's reputation in an attempt to increase property values. Maybe if I do this long enough I can get values as high as the "zestimate":) 

As primarily a listing broker I'm not to sure how I feel about another agent "advertising" listing. My listings can already be found on a million and one websites out there with other agents names attached to them. The advantage I have as a listing broker is I get paid the same regardless of where the buyer comes from. But advertising my listing is definitely against my MLS rules and is certainly a violation of out COE as well. Very interesting stuff. 

04/04/2007 01:54 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc


And another thing...

The more heck we raise about this...the more attention it will get.  The more attention it gets....the more traffic Zillow will receive.  Then the press will start in about how Realtors are just trying to be the "gate keepers" of all the information and try to sway the public against us even more.  Score one for Zillow if me do something...score one for Zillow if we don't. 

Sorry Drew & David but you will be playing hockey and eating snow cones in you know where before I sign up with you guys. 

04/04/2007 01:54 PM by Griffin Georgia Real Estate - Jessica Wynn Horton (Jessica Horton & Assoc.)


Just because you don't call it advertising doesn't mean it's not, agents that do this are knowingly violating the rules and deserve what they get.

04/04/2007 02:02 PM by Terry Lynch (GMAC The Kee Group)


Jessica, Good point.  Kinda a catch 22. However, I don't mind sending attention or traffic to Zillow.  They are doing some innovative stuff and are definitely pushing the envelope. I firmly believe that strong competition makes the whole industry stronger.  As they say "Iron sharpens iron..."

04/04/2007 02:09 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


Did someone say pinch me? Is this a dream or a nightmare? Hmmmmm.....

 

Graphic Keyword says:

LEMON

04/04/2007 02:11 PM by Brad Andersohn ~ Community Builder (ActiveRain)


Oh Boy. The implications and ramifications of this go way beyond my imagination. That's pretty far.

Can you say....."See you in court?" :)

TLW...ROAR!

04/04/2007 02:13 PM by "The Lovely Wife"...Broker Bryant's Wife... (Co-Owner Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.)


This is just another attempt to put the consumer more in control.  We are literally watching the real estate industry change before our eyes.  As a Realtor myself, I have learned to adapt to this sort of stuff before it rolls you over.  Unfortunately, not many of my peers see the way I do...this sort of thing is only going to continue...

04/04/2007 02:18 PM by Brian-Logan Reid, Associate Broker, Realtor (Coffin Real Estate)


Jonathan:

I am all for competition.  But what I can't stand (and mentioned in my blog why the NAR should be mourning) is that we aren't the ones pushing the envelope. 

04/04/2007 02:18 PM by Griffin Georgia Real Estate - Jessica Wynn Horton (Jessica Horton & Assoc.)


excellent observation jonathan!

 "Traditionally, advertising another's listings without specific permission is against MLS rules.

 

 rudy.sellsius° 

04/04/2007 02:19 PM by rudy bachraty (Trulia.com)


Okay...Zillow is creating fear. Everyone who is a web user and homeowner will go in and claim their home.

Am I right that this is exactly what Zillow wants to see happen?

TLW...ROAR!

04/04/2007 02:19 PM by "The Lovely Wife"...Broker Bryant's Wife... (Co-Owner Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.)


Then more fractured the "World of Real Estate" information becomes...it becomes both harder and easier to get real information.  Harder because the consumer now has to look to multiple places to find info (that may or may not be accurate) and easier because they can find it if they can take the time to dig around, become knowledgeable, and then make informative decisions on what the information means...of course that is the tricky part! 

I think this allows for more choices, which is great for some people.  But too many choices can paralyze decision making, good for professionals whose service is needed for consumers who don't have the time or inclination to devote to the task of researching.

I would not want another agent advertising my listing without my permission, there is a lot of thought, and strategy put into developing marketing for a house and I would not want an unknown element disrupting that.

04/04/2007 02:22 PM by Deborah Burns ~ Seattle Real Estate Agent (BRIO Realty)


Am I missing something here... If you purchase advertisment for a community why is that different than the ads already supplied by goolge such as zip realty & redfin on the site?  If the agent is not claiming the listing what's the problem? 

 

04/04/2007 02:22 PM by MaryAnn Morrar ~ La Jolla (Coldwell Banker)


I can envision all sorts of abuse and issues arising from this change. And depending on what agents say about other's listings, might they not be viewed as interfering with  another agent's contractual relationship? That's a COE violation. I guess I don't get how this is going to be helpful to consumers. I can imagine all sort of stuff getting posted. Any moderation to be done?

Jeff

04/04/2007 02:22 PM by Jeff Dowler ~ Carlsbad Real Estate ~ 760-840-1360 (RE/MAX Associates)


I'll just stand by and wait for the lawsuits to start flying. 

You just know at some point - Mr & Mrs Homeowner are going to pop onto zillow and find out the home that they lived in for 10 years is for sale and they never knew it.

Sandra

04/04/2007 02:28 PM by Guilford Connecticut Real Estate Agent, Sandra Cummings (William Raveis Real Estate)


Brian,

I would argue that this move is not done to put this consumer in control, but instead is made to bring more control to Zillow. It is my opinion that a vast majority of the "new listings" that will be uploaded to Zillow will be done by other practicing agents in the region.  I am pro-consumer and want to see any unnecessary boundaries between the home buyer and seller removed.  But that is not what is happening here.  This move is about using proprietary data in a way that the data owner does not want it to be used in.  

As "owners" of the intellectual property (listings), we as an industry need to make a decision regarding which path we are going to take. If Zillow can figure out a way around the MLS rules and create their own national MLS overnight (piggybacking the MLS data), and the Multiple Listings Services and real estate industry choose to look the other way, then they've successfully capitalized on an available opportunity.  Some would argue that that is the goal of running a business.

However, if this is not what the real estate industry wants with their data then we have to speak up and be clear in our intentions.  

04/04/2007 02:31 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


Hi, it's David from Zillow.

First, please all note that we have not launched a feature that lets you advertise other agents listings on Zillow. I ask is that you please try some of these new features for yourself before you decide whether they'd benefit your business.

Only listing agents or owners can advertise a home for sale on Zillow. By the way, it's free.

The feature Joel mentioned is exciting though. While you cannot advertise someone else's listings -- you can now assist buyers in your community by answering their question; "Is this house for sale?". 

So, the next time you're visiting a home on Zillow that you know to be for sale, you can tell the Zillow community that -- and let them know what price it's going for. You cannot however post an advertisement for the home or pretend to be its listing agent if you are not. So why do this? Simple -- we let buyers know that you reported the home for sale and they can now go tyo your profile page on Zillow and contact you for more details -- it's an awesome opportunity to be known as the neighborhood expert. Likewise, anyone in the community can update this information if the house sells. This feature is not only available to agents but to all members of the Zillow community.

If however you're the listing agent or owner and you have advertised the home for sale, we disable the report for sale functionality. 

Jonathon --

Please check it out -- we're not allowing anyone to advertise your listings and this is not a semantic maneuver. I don't know where you got that quote, but it's not from Zillow and it's not accurate to suggest that you can "Advertise another agent's listings". The feature, which Joel describes quite accurately is labeled "report for sale" and does not allow you to advertise another agents listings on Zillow. I am glad however to read in your takeaways that this innovation triggered some thoughts about the benefits of more transparency in the industry -- that sounds like a win-win scenario.

04/04/2007 02:33 PM by David Gibbons (Zillow.com)


Jonathon -

You of all people should know that you (happily) relinquish control when you invite more participation -- not gain it.

 

04/04/2007 02:43 PM by David Gibbons (Zillow.com)


I just pulled up my home on Zillow.  On the right hand side there is a link that says "Tell us it's for sale".  If I click that, a pop-up comes up and asks for the price, then I have to choose my relationship to the home: Listing Agent, Owner, Other.  

I don't know if there are other choices beyond that, because I don't want to report my home for sale.  But if that is all it is, I'm not upset by it. I'm just glad that I know about it, because I know there will be lots of agents in my community that will never know it exists. 

 

04/04/2007 02:46 PM by Kelly Barthlow (na)


Reporting seems be very higly related term to advertising. And even if agents are not allowed to advertise, I mean report another's listings what is stopping them? Does Zillow going to have rules that abide by the MLS rule 190 or is Zillow just going to be put a disclaimer saying that Zillow neither endorses or can verify the accuracy of the information? To me their are many fingers in the pot and it is getting a little crowded and confusing. Maybe it is about time the MLS evolves and opens up the MLS to the public.

04/04/2007 02:48 PM by Barnett Associates Real Estate, LLC


Wow,

I can see zillow replacing the MLS and taking a big piece of the market if they can get away with this.

04/04/2007 03:00 PM by granpdad


Here in my little corner of the world, that would a violation of our board rules. Since this is a form of advertising a non-listing REALTOR® would need permission from the listing brokerage in order to have it posted on Zillow, assuming the exclusive advertising box was checked on the listing.

04/04/2007 03:04 PM by Wayne McMullan Quinte Real Estate (Royal LePage ProAlliance Realty)


David,

Thanks for your reply! You bring up some very good points, and this is an issue that does oh so carefully tote the line.  It is clear that Zillow as a company is listing the property as for sale, not the agent.  However, it is also clear that the agent who uploaded the listing information to Zillow benefits from providing the listing data to Zillow, by way of getting their picture, name, phone number (on profile page), and a link to their profile, on every listing they upload.  To me, indentifying a listing as for sale on a website, and then receiving the benefit of taking that action by being listed as the "agent" on that page is essentially "advertising another agent's listing". 

If you look at the example image from a Zillow properties page, "For sale from..."  in the body of my post, you will see a little tag that reads "agent". To me that image communicates "For sale from... agent". I thinking it is unreasonable to expect people not to interpret that that "agent" is different from the "listing agent". 

04/04/2007 03:09 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


WOW!

Just imagine if ... a potential buyer calls the "reporter" since that's the most convenient contact ... and the "reporter" then tells him the home is in an undesirable neighbhood (in his opinion) and suggests another neighborhood ... doesn't this harm the seller (i.e. consumer, i.e. public) by wrongly turning away a potential buyer????

04/04/2007 03:09 PM by Sharon Simms St Pete Florida CRS CIPS CLHMS (RE/MAX Metro)


The homes are already on Zillow.  The other agent wouldn't not be posting it, just telling Zillow that it's for sale, and the price.  Not attempting to represent themselves as the listing agent, not making comments on the property (as far as I can tell).

I would feel differently if agents were actually uploading other listings to the site....but that's not the case.  The homes are already there, and the owner, the listing agent, the neighbor, the loan officer or anyone can tell Zillow that it's for sale.  

I can't wait to see how this plays out.   

04/04/2007 03:12 PM by Kelly Barthlow (na)


Jonathan -

I want to comment on each of your points:

I would argue that this move is not done to put this consumer in control, but instead is made to bring more control to Zillow. AGREE THAT MORE POWER IS GOING TO ZILLOW; DISAGREE THAT CONSUMERS WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM THIS KNOWLEDGE.  SINCE THERE IS NO PUBLIC MLS (YET), A CONSUMER IS RELEGATED TO EITHER CONTACTING AN AGENT TO VIEW LISITINGS OR HOPING THAT PROPERTIES ARE BEING DISPLAYED ON REALTOR.COM (WHICH NOT ALL ARE). 

It is my opinion that a vast majority of the "new listings" that will be uploaded to Zillow will be done by other practicing agents in the region.  AGREE.

I am pro-consumer and want to see any unnecessary boundaries between the home buyer and seller removed.  110% AGREE.

But that is not what is happening here.  This move is about using proprietary data in a way that the data owner does not want it to be used in.   DISAGREE.  HOW DO YOU KNOW THE OWNER DOES NOT WANT THIS INFORMATION DISPLAYED???  AND WHO'S PROPRIETARY DATA IS IT?  THE LISTING AGENT'S?  IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN WHY DOES A SELLER CONTRACT WITH AN AGENT TO OFFER THIS INFORMATION TO THE BUYING PUBLIC???

As "owners" of the intellectual property (listings), we as an industry need to make a decision regarding which path we are going to take. I LOVE THIS PART!!!  WHAT INFORMATION IS 'OWNED' BY WHOM?  THE LISTING AGENT USES HIS CREATIVITY IN COMING UP WITH A CATCHY DESCRIPTION AND TAKING PHOTOS OF A PROPERTY, YES, THAT AGENT 'OWNS' THAT PARTICULAR INFORMATION.  BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PUBLIC FACTS THAT PROPERTY X IS A 3 BEDROOM, 2 BATHROOM HOUSE?...

If Zillow can figure out a way around the MLS rules and create their own national MLS overnight (piggybacking the MLS data), and the Multiple Listings Services and real estate industry choose to look the other way, then they've successfully capitalized on an available opportunity.  Some would argue that that is the goal of running a business.  ZILLOW IS PUSHING THE ENVELOPE HERE BECAUSE THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY IS DRAGGING ITS FEET.  THERE WILL COME A TIME IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE WHEREBY THE RE INDUSTRY WILL HAVE TO COME UP WITH A NATIONAL MLS.  SOMEBODY IS GOING TO DO IT, WHETHER ITS A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE OR NAR OR WHOMEVER...BUT THE FULL AND TRANSPARENT DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION IS COMING...WHY DON'T WE LEARN TO ADOPT AND ADAPT RATHER THAN SCRATCH AND CLAW AT THE ENEVITABLE?

However, if this is not what the real estate industry wants with their data then we have to speak up and be clear in our intentions.  LET ME ASK THIS:  WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME (AS AN AGENT, BOUND BY CERTAIN LAWS AND COE'S) NOTIFYING THE PUBLIC THAT CERTAIN PROPERTIES ARE ON THE MARKET VERSUS A RANDOM PERSON (WITH NO LIABILITY ISSUES) CONTACTING ME, ASKING FOR EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY ON THE MARKET (TO WHICH I SUPPLY), AND THEN HE GOES TO ZILLOW AND PUTS UP ALL OF THE PROPERTIES FOR SALE?   

MY MAIN CONCERN IS THAT CERTAIN ROGUE OR ILL-INTENTIONED FOLKS COULD COMPLICATE THINGS BY SCREWING AROUND AND SAYING THEIR NEIGHBORS HOUSE IS ON THE MARKET, OR BY HYPING UP A CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOOD, OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES...THAT'S WHERE I SEE IT GETTING HAIRY.  HOW IN THE WORLD CAN THEY POLICE THAT? 

BUT MY MAIN ISSUE HERE IS THAT HOMEOWNERS WANT AS MUCH EXPOSURE OF THEIR PROPERTY AS POSSIBLE (WOULD YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS?).  THEN WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THEY NOT WANT THIS INFORMATION BEING ON SITES SUCH AS ZILLOW?  THE MORE PEOPLE SEE THAT THEIR HOUSE IS ON THE MARKET, THE HIGHER THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THE HOUSE GETS SEEN, SHOWN AND SOLD!!  THE LISTING AGENT IS CONTRACTED BY THE LISTING AGREEMENT, AND GETS PAID REGARDLESS...

I JUST THINK THIS IS ANOTHER GREY AREA WHERE THE RE INDUSTRY IS BEING SLOW TO ADAPT AND, AS A RESULT, IS HINDERING THE FULL DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC. 

WILL BE AWAITING YOUR FEEDBACK...

 

04/04/2007 03:17 PM by Brian-Logan Reid, Associate Broker, Realtor (Coffin Real Estate)


I'm parked and listening for a bit... I'll come back to add my 2 cents... if I think I can add any value to an already valuable conversation.

04/04/2007 03:19 PM by Jeff Turner (Real Estate Shows)


Kelly -

THANK YOU for kicking the tires! :-) Who's next?

Jonathon -

It is always a pleasure. The text above actually says "For sale info from". If a listing agent posts a listing, we replace that box with one that is titled; "For sale by agent" and if an owner posts it it could either be "by agent" or "For sale by owner". I don't think it could be much clearer but I'm going to pass on your feedback to our designers about the agent badge being too close to the title.

I disagree that  


 

04/04/2007 03:24 PM by David Gibbons (Zillow.com)


Ok, I just reported my brother's home for sale (it IS for sale and he won't mind - he's the listing agent though).  All it let me put in was the price, and I checked "other".  It also, while logged in, gave me the option to update the for sale status (sold, pending, etc.) That's it.

It didn't let me say anything about the property other than the price and that it was for sale.  

I did think of one issue.  We have a lot of new construction in the area, and you do sometimes have to input the info before it hits the tax rolls.

David - is that something that a person would still have to claim as an owner or listing agent? (by the way, I see you are verifying listing agents now!) 

 

04/04/2007 03:35 PM by Kelly Barthlow (na)


Kelly,

I see where you are coming from.  But what really makes a "listings" a "listing". I believe that the tax data already on Zillow becomes a listing only once it is listed as for sale.

Before this launch, named "Zillow 5", listing agents already had the ability to upload listing into Zillow, but the key is that only a handful of them chose to do it.

Zillow needed to do something different in order allow a smaller core of active Zillow users/agents populate the entire listings database. 

04/04/2007 03:37 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


"Paul, Zillow currently has over 70 million properties across the U.S. in their database.  Any agent, or any non-agent, for that matter can identify any property in their database as being for sale.  (This was in reply to a comment by Paul - as I was posting my reply he removed his comment.)"

 

Jonathan, Sorry about that, after I posted I reread your Article and noticed that I was mistaken.Next time I'll try to actually COMPREHEND what I'm posting about :) 

04/04/2007 03:41 PM by


David,

Sorry, you are right about the text!! Got carried away, trying to juggle a couple things. Do you want me to change the text of that comment by adding the word "info", or just leaving this comment acknowledging my error is okay? 

04/04/2007 03:42 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


Well, if nothing else, we won't have to pay for our MLS dues anymore. I guess if Zillow really wants to be the Listing Aggregator, then they can bear the responsibility and liability of ensuring that all the data contained on their site is accurate and up to date.

04/04/2007 03:45 PM by Rich Jacobson ~ ActiveRain Community Builder (ActiveRain Corporation)


"Paul, Zillow currently has over 70 million properties across the U.S. in their database.  Any agent, or any non-agent, for that matter can identify any property in their database as being for sale.  (This was in reply to a comment by Paul - as I was posting my reply he removed his comment.)"

 

Jonathan, Sorry about that, after I posted I reread your Article and noticed that I was mistaken.Next time I'll try to actually COMPREHEND what I'm posting about :)

 

I'll get the hang of this thing after a while...forgot to log in. 

04/04/2007 03:46 PM by Paul Batts (Summit Real Estate)


Much to consider here. Seems that there are apt to be some lawsuits over this. Not all owners are going to want other people to "claim" their home, even if those other people happen to be agents.

  • Who will be liable if the info entered is incorrect? We all know that the there are many errors to the Auditor's property info which is where Zillow is getting their info. As Realtors®, we're responsible for making sure the info that WE provide on a listing is factually correct.
  • What controls has Zillow put into place to prevent an angry neighbor from claiming another neighbor's home?
  • What controls has Zillow put into place to prevent teenagers from playing "tricks" on their friend's homes.
  • What controls has Zillow put into place to prevent scammers from offering properties for sale - especially undeveloped land. Supposedly some scammers are already doing this - and actually selling the property sight unseen.
  • How is it a benefit to buyers if the info they see is incorrect and thus, they're misled?

Zillow may find themselves in trouble with the Dept of Commerce who regulates license laws.

04/04/2007 03:50 PM by Elaine Reese, REALTORĀ® in central Ohio (Real Living HER, Worthington Ohio)


Rich,

Haha.  That is one way to look at it. :) Another way would be to see that you will be paying your MLS dues, just in a different way - through EZ Ads. 

Brian, I am working on getting to your comment.  It is long, and I am worn out just thinking about typing a response. ;) 

04/04/2007 03:51 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


Jonathan,

I don't know what Zillow's intentions were, but my first reaction wasn't that it was to allow the already active agents to populate the database, but to possibly cause the agents that aren't users to get on there and claim their listings before someone else marks it for sale. 

But, they allow the listing agent to take over the listing anyway.  I know I can be very thick headed sometimes, but I'm really having trouble seeing the problem.

If you, as an agent, don't want someone else to mark your listings for sale, then get on there and claim them first.  If you (general) choose not to use Zillow, a well known site, how do you explain that to your sellers?  Are they satisfied with the answers? 

I think I'm going to step back and just watch the rest of this.  Perhaps my short time in the business is hindering my thought process on it. 

04/04/2007 03:53 PM by Kelly Barthlow (na)


Kelly,

Exactly!! In a certain sense Zillow is doing a shakedown.  I don't think listing agents will pre-emptively list their properties on Zillow, but once someone else is listed as the "agent" on their listing, I think the listing agent will be essentially forced to come in and claim their listing!

04/04/2007 04:00 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


I must not understand something about this.  Being a mortgage broker, I am not surprised at my ignorance.  But if I had a listing and buyer's agents were coming in by the droves to show my listed house, I guess I wouldn't care how the buyer found it.  I wonder why advertising another agent's listing is forbidden anyway?  Again, I am but a humble mortgage broker...

04/04/2007 04:15 PM by Arizona Home Loan


Quite an interesting "Twist" on things and it shouldn't be long before the listing agents start hollering over this one.  Thanks for sharing this info with us.

04/04/2007 04:23 PM by Pascack Valley Real Estate>> Lisa and Robert Hammerstein (Coldwell Banker)


In our area the properties can be advertised on the internet if they are on the MLS and you check off that the property can be distributed on the web.  I just do not know if properties can be individually taken off without consent.  I know that in written mail campaigns you can not advertise without consent.

04/04/2007 04:39 PM by Ryan Monroe E-Pro Fort Myers to Estero Homes (Keller Williams World Class, Realtors)


Brian,

This reply could be very very long, so I am going to attempt to address each point specifically, but will omit references to your original comments.

1.  Zillow will not be a "public MLS".  It is a private, for profit, corporation.  Many of this nations MLSes are organizationally speaking far more public than Zillow.

2.  When I say "proprietary data ownership", I refer to the listing data which is usually owned by the real estate brokerage who has the "exclusive listing agreement" with the seller.  They are the creators of the data, including pictures, written descriptions, etc. I am not legally trained, but yes I have seen it argued that sales price information is not proprietary data.  

3. In this post I am making no contention about Zillow displaying any content they legally obtain, including publicly available tax data.

4. Zillow is pushing the envelope and for that I applaud them. As a for profit business they should seek to push forward.  But the real estate industry as a whole needs to do their part in maintaining a natural checks and balances. In this case they need to be very proactive in figuring out what stance they are going to take on this issue.  In a few weeks Zillow could have a national listings database and it will much harder to unwind at that point.  

5. A national MLS is totally different than "full and transparent dissemination of information". 

6. "Listings data becoming more open" is a trend that is gaining traction. This is a tactical issue that the real estate industry needs to deal with.  Companies like Trulia are leading the charge, and they are making a lot of headway.  

7.  This is a very important point so I will post your question here. 

"WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME (AS AN AGENT, BOUND BY CERTAIN LAWS AND COE'S) NOTIFYING THE PUBLIC THAT CERTAIN PROPERTIES ARE ON THE MARKET VERSUS A RANDOM PERSON (WITH NO LIABILITY ISSUES) CONTACTING ME, ASKING FOR EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY ON THE MARKET (TO WHICH I SUPPLY), AND THEN HE GOES TO ZILLOW AND PUTS UP ALL OF THE PROPERTIES FOR SALE? "

This is getting to the heart of the issue.  I have no problem with the consumer, or non-mls member, posting every listing in the country to Zillow.  That is their prerogative. They can find the information on any IDX enabled website.  But the fact of the matter is they won't do this! They have no reason to!  The reason the agents, other than the listing agent, are motivated to upload this listing data onto Zillow is because they are receiving benefit, in the form of advertising/business, from doing it!!!!!!  That is the key.  If Zillow removed the box that gave credit to the agent that uploaded the information, then to me this whole thing is a non issue.  That box, makes what the agent is doing a "listings advertisement".

8. My post is not about people abusing the community nature of Zillow's new features.  I think concerns that people slandering their neighbors properties, or artificially inflating their neighborhood is probably being blown out of proportion.  Besides, I am sure the Zillow terms of use covers that type of thing. I doubt Zillow is making any sorts of reps or warranties, and they are not likely held to the same levels of fiduciary responsibilities that agents are held to.

9. Not all home owners want as much exposure as possible.  I believe that they have the right to determine where or how their home will be marketed.  Most home sellers in this country choose to put those marketing related decisions in the hands of licensed real estate agents!  This move by Zillow is taking the control/choice out of the consumers hands!  This is especially true of high end properties whose sellers are particular about where their property is advertised.

 

04/04/2007 04:49 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


Ryan,

Most Multiple Listing Services have IDX policies in place that allow you to display other agents listings, if they consent, as long as you sign a data download agreement with the MLS and agree to comply with their IDX policies. 

04/04/2007 04:51 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


It's not easy being green, Kermit the frog said, and I know he believed that people are good and that they want to do there best, and that no matter how or why we might be different from everybody else, we should learn to love who we are and be proud of it, a quote from Ray Charles.    As a realtor, I am poud to be a newbee, or is it now a newcomer? and I am thankfull for places like active rain, which provides me with invaluable information, and directions, to beneficial conversation such as this. This past weekend I wrote a listing, a new realtors dream, and was I ever pumped, that is until I received a notice from our board, I had missed renewing my MLS fee by a day, and my listing would not be posted. After months and months of studying, and fees upon fees, and dues upon dues, the ultimate listing had finally occurred, and here I was. I drove over and payed the fee, shame on me, but I wondered all the way there and back, was the tail wagging the dog? who serves who?.  My great listing, for which I am proud, is located between to major metropolitan areas, and served by two different MLS areas. I inquired of management, how can I list in both and truly benefit my client? and it was suggested I contact someone in the organization who has paid dues to both, and perhaps for a percentage of the listing fee, they will provide me with the optional exposure in the other MLS. Now my friends, ask me if Zillow is not a great idea. Will I have a problem with 70 million people seeing this listing, not at all. Would it bother me if someone else was kind enough to tell the world about it? not at all. What if they improperly state the facts? Hope they have E&O. Thanks folks, I have read everything you have stated, and continue to do so, But, bottom line, my responsibility is, as it should be with all of us, to serve our clients.as we promised with the maximum amount of exposure, and this sounds great.

04/04/2007 05:06 PM by Jack Frisk


Advertising another agent's listing without their permission is against our board rules her in Northern Illinois.  Sherry

04/04/2007 05:13 PM by Sherry Spengel | Wheaton IL (Prudential Spengel Realty)


Jack, Besides ActiveRain I have an ownership interest in a real estate company, and you can be assured that nearly all of our listings are posted on Zillow.  We actually take the initiative on a corporate level to do this. We as a company made that choice and our sellers have supported that choice. Other companies/sellers may not agree that that is the best way for them to market their home. If we are really talking about the needs of the consumer, then they should have the right to dictate where their listing is or is not listed.

04/04/2007 05:23 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


Jonathan -

I really appreciate your input on this. 

Would you mind conversing about this over the phone sometime?  I'm totally fascinated with your train of thought...

What do you think?

04/04/2007 05:30 PM by Brian-Logan Reid, Associate Broker, Realtor (Coffin Real Estate)


In Arizona, only a licensed real estate agent (or the property owner) can discuss price and availability. Zillow's encouraging such discussions by allowing the general public to "report" homes that are for sale.

And to one other point I read far above, there's no reason not to discuss Zillow. The strategy of ignoring it in hopes it would go away proved useless a year ago and are no better now. 

 

04/04/2007 05:39 PM by Jonathan Dalton (RE/MAX Desert Showcase)


Just had a cool off-line conversation with Brian. I love it when other Rainers call me up. Nice talking with you.  Crazy times in real estate, huh?

04/04/2007 05:59 PM by Jonathan Washburn (ActiveRain Corp)


Jonathan -

Sorry about the ALL CAPS thing...great talking with you.  ActiveRain is in awesome hands...I wish you the best of luck on your ventures and rest assured that you'll find me on AR for a good long time to come.  Now I've got to get busy putting all of the listings on Nantucket on Zillow!!! :) 

I'm parked on this...

BLR

04/04/2007 06:02 PM by Brian-Logan Reid, Associate Broker, Realtor (Coffin Real Estate)


In our RHode Island MLS board we have an option on each and every listing if we want it to be an IDX listing. This allows other agents across the state to have a listing on their web site but it does identify the listing agent and company.It is in rather small print and honestly I have never been a fan of IDX but it has grown with popularity.

I am in favor of marketing  a property in South County or all parts of Rhode Island exclusively through the MLS system. I also feel that we have a better ability to represent a seller by having total control of marketing. By doing this we also know what the response is from the public. The seller would never know how many times someone inquired about their property through Zillow because many agents would try to switch them off to their own properties or properties they were more familiar with. In effect this would be an injustice to our fiduciary that pay a substantial amount of money to sell their house. Food for thought

RI State House

04/04/2007 06:10 PM by todd brown


I tried out the 'Tell us it's for sale' feature with one of my team's listings. Here are my thoughts:

  1. If an agent does this for every property in their farm area and the price or status changes, will that agent update the info on Zillow in a timely manner? Absolutely not.
  2. It looks like the system allows me to upload photos. Why? And will the photos accurately reflect the house?
  3. The 'For Sale Info From ...' box indicates "Listing agent unknown." That's completely false. If I went to the MLS to see if the property was for sale and to get the current list price, I also had access to the listing agent's identity.
  4. The layout of the property page is horrible. The home's data is surrounded on all sides by advertising (Lending Tree or Zip Realty on my page). So the 'For Sale Info From ...' box gets totally lost in the layout. And when buyers scroll down to read the Home Facts, the 'For Sale Info From ...' box isn't even on the screen any more! (But two ads from Lending Tree are.)
  5. The 'For Sale Info From ...' box is free. Well, you get what you pay for. Don't expect a very high response rate on these, if any.

04/04/2007 06:15 PM by John Novak - Las Vegas and Henderson NV Real Estate (Keller Williams Realty The Marketplace)


Why wait for someone else to input the information on your listings? I am going to zillow.com right now and doing mine.  I do not think the system is perfect but it does get a lot of traffic and look at how many comments it has created in just one day.

04/04/2007 06:39 PM by Carmen Rivero Celebration & Kissimmee Real Estate (La Rosa Realty, LLC)


Might this not be like MLX where we can send out other listings to potential clients?  I'm unsure if there is a real difference here.  I understand the frustration, but I would think it would compare

04/04/2007 06:46 PM by Chris Tesch College Station, Texas Real Estate (RE/MAX Bryan College Station)


Great post.  Sharing of information like this with fellow Realtors is what makes AR so amazing!