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Zillow launches "Advertise another agent's listing" feature

Rich Barton and Lloyd Frink appear to have a brilliant piece of real estate disintermediation on their hands. The gurus oiling the Zillow machine have just launched a new feature, "Advertise another agent's listings".

How it works:
Agents can click on a house in the Zillow database (includes all houses via tax records and satellite imaging) and after creating an account, advertise that the property is currently for sale. The benefit to the agent is that their contact information will display as a contact for that house. Joel Burslem author of FutureOfRealEstateMarketing writes: “Now anyone can now identify a home as being for sale. The idea is that buyers' agents or new agents with some time on their hands will step up to bat and start identifying properties on behalf of the busy listing agents.”

Conflict:
Hold a moment. Can agents randomly advertise other's listings?? If this new feature sends up red flags, you're in good company. Traditionally, advertising another's listings without specific permission is against MLS rules. For example, note Northwest MLS Rule #190:

“Advertising Another Member’s Listing Prohibited. No member shall, without first obtaining the listing member’s or subscriber’s written permission (including email), advertise a property listed by another member in any manner, including but not limited to, display, reader board, newspaper, flyer or other publication, except that a member may republish another member’s listings on the Internet in a manner consistent with NWMLS Rules and policies so long as the listing is approved by the owner for Internet publication.”

Zillow appears to be attempting a semantic maneuver around this issue. Agents are merely "reporting" homes currently for sale, as opposed to acting as the advertiser. From Zillow.com: “If you report a home is for sale you get your name, a thumbnail picture, and a link to your profile -- for free.”

You can almost hear the well-meaning Buyers' Agent's defense to the MLS Board, “I didn’t advertise another agents listing. I just told Zillow that I noticed the 4000 property’s were for sale in my city. It is not my fault that they added my name, image, and a link to my profile page on every one of the properties' pages. I did it for the community! Plus according to Zillow, 'Special space on the page is reserved for homeowners and listing agents who might subsequently enter information on that home.'”

Implications:
Zillow's new development has the potential to alter the real estate industry as we know it by bypassing the agent centered MLS system. If only a handful of agents across the country pursue this as a competitive advantage, within months or even weeks Zillow may secure for themselves the position as a top listings aggregator.

Takeaway:
“Don’t ever underestimate the competition”. Zillow's leadership is intelligent and perceptive at how to reach their aims as they move into the future. Zillow's position raises moral/ethical questions. Is it time for the MLS to open up listing data to all tech businesses, or should that data be available for publication only by licensed real estate agents/brokers? If the MLS determines that the listings should in fact remain under real estate agent control, then the MLS should not be misled by Zillow doubletalk. This new feature is all about allowing agents to advertise other agent's listings without their permission.

Is it time to open up the listings information? Realogy (previously Cendent) just made the move to syndicate all of their listings to Trulia and Googlebase. What should our role be?

Posted by Jonathan Washburn on 04/04/2007 01:18 PM

Comments (89)

zillow, zillow 5, mls, listings

Originally posted at: jonwashburn: Zillow launches "Advertise another agent's listing" feature

89 Comments on Zillow launches "Advertise another agent's listing" feature

APR

2007

This is shameful and goes against the intent and spirit of the MLS rules.

Wow. This is an aggressive new feature. I am so curious how this is going to play out, specifically in the Northwest MLS. Because the NWMLS is very diligent about fining & penalizing agents who violate rule #190. Hmmm. This is something to watch. Thanks for sharing.

This is going to be a mess. Some excellent blogs out there in the blogosphere about this. Definitely can be a source of liability, wouldn't you think?

Seems there may be a simple answer to this -- the listing agent can check a box which gives permission (or does not give permission). It seems like the MLS, the greater the exposure to the consumers bodes well for both the buyer and the seller. When I print out listing sheets for my clients - it has my picture, office and contact information and at the bottom, it notes the listing agent/office -- I think there could be an simple answer to avoid any mess.

Great post. This is something all Realtors will be dealing with as the number of listing sites and services expand.

I don't know what to think about all this stuff. There seems to be an awful lot of new websites that are real estate related.

So how does this benefit the consumer? They call John Q Public about the listing which he has never been inside of, and knows little more than it is listed on the Zillow Database?

The Zillow guys should stick to booking travel packages online.

Paul, Zillow currently has over 70 million properties across the U.S. in their database. Any agent, or any non-agent, for that matter can identify any property in their database as being for sale. (This was in reply to a comment by Paul - as I was posting my reply he removed his comment.)

It should be very interesting to see how all this unfolds. I was playing around with it a bit this morning. The property Q&A was interesting to say the least. Can anyone say abuse? I think I will "claim" my neighbors houses and bad mouth them or better yet build up my neighborhood's reputation in an attempt to increase property values. Maybe if I do this long enough I can get values as high as the "zestimate":)

As primarily a listing broker I'm not to sure how I feel about another agent "advertising" listing. My listings can already be found on a million and one websites out there with other agents names attached to them. The advantage I have as a listing broker is I get paid the same regardless of where the buyer comes from. But advertising my listing is definitely against my MLS rules and is certainly a violation of out COE as well. Very interesting stuff.

Just because you don't call it advertising doesn't mean it's not, agents that do this are knowingly violating the rules and deserve what they get.

Parked, this is going to be interesting.

Jessica, Good point. Kinda a catch 22. However, I don't mind sending attention or traffic to Zillow. They are doing some innovative stuff and are definitely pushing the envelope. I firmly believe that strong competition makes the whole industry stronger. As they say "Iron sharpens iron..."

Did someone say pinch me? Is this a dream or a nightmare? Hmmmmm.....

Graphic Keyword says:

LEMON

Oh Boy. The implications and ramifications of this go way beyond my imagination. That's pretty far.

Can you say....."See you in court?" :)

TLW...ROAR!

This is just another attempt to put the consumer more in control. We are literally watching the real estate industry change before our eyes. As a Realtor myself, I have learned to adapt to this sort of stuff before it rolls you over. Unfortunately, not many of my peers see the way I do...this sort of thing is only going to continue...

excellent observation jonathan!

"Traditionally, advertising another's listings without specific permission is against MLS rules.

rudy.sellsius°

Okay...Zillow is creating fear. Everyone who is a web user and homeowner will go in and claim their home.

Am I right that this is exactly what Zillow wants to see happen?

TLW...ROAR!

Then more fractured the "World of Real Estate" information becomes...it becomes both harder and easier to get real information. Harder because the consumer now has to look to multiple places to find info (that may or may not be accurate) and easier because they can find it if they can take the time to dig around, become knowledgeable, and then make informative decisions on what the information means...of course that is the tricky part!

I think this allows for more choices, which is great for some people. But too many choices can paralyze decision making, good for professionals whose service is needed for consumers who don't have the time or inclination to devote to the task of researching.

I would not want another agent advertising my listing without my permission, there is a lot of thought, and strategy put into developing marketing for a house and I would not want an unknown element disrupting that.

Am I missing something here... If you purchase advertisment for a community why is that different than the ads already supplied by goolge such as zip realty & redfin on the site? If the agent is not claiming the listing what's the problem?

I can envision all sorts of abuse and issues arising from this change. And depending on what agents say about other's listings, might they not be viewed as interfering with another agent's contractual relationship? That's a COE violation. I guess I don't get how this is going to be helpful to consumers. I can imagine all sort of stuff getting posted. Any moderation to be done?

Jeff

I'll just stand by and wait for the lawsuits to start flying.

You just know at some point - Mr & Mrs Homeowner are going to pop onto zillow and find out the home that they lived in for 10 years is for sale and they never knew it.

Sandra

Brian,

I would argue that this move is not done to put this consumer in control, but instead is made to bring more control to Zillow. It is my opinion that a vast majority of the "new listings" that will be uploaded to Zillow will be done by other practicing agents in the region. I am pro-consumer and want to see any unnecessary boundaries between the home buyer and seller removed. But that is not what is happening here. This move is about using proprietary data in a way that the data owner does not want it to be used in.

As "owners" of the intellectual property (listings), we as an industry need to make a decision regarding which path we are going to take. If Zillow can figure out a way around the MLS rules and create their own national MLS overnight (piggybacking the MLS data), and the Multiple Listings Services and real estate industry choose to look the other way, then they've successfully capitalized on an available opportunity. Some would argue that that is the goal of running a business.

However, if this is not what the real estate industry wants with their data then we have to speak up and be clear in our intentions.

Hi, it's David from Zillow.

First, please all note that we have not launched a feature that lets you advertise other agents listings on Zillow. I ask is that you please try some of these new features for yourself before you decide whether they'd benefit your business.

Only listing agents or owners can advertise a home for sale on Zillow. By the way, it's free.

The feature Joel mentioned is exciting though. While you cannot advertise someone else's listings -- you can now assist buyers in your community by answering their question; "Is this house for sale?".

So, the next time you're visiting a home on Zillow that you know to be for sale, you can tell the Zillow community that -- and let them know what price it's going for. You cannot however post an advertisement for the home or pretend to be its listing agent if you are not. So why do this? Simple -- we let buyers know that you reported the home for sale and they can now go tyo your profile page on Zillow and contact you for more details -- it's an awesome opportunity to be known as the neighborhood expert. Likewise, anyone in the community can update this information if the house sells. This feature is not only available to agents but to all members of the Zillow community.

If however you're the listing agent or owner and you have advertised the home for sale, we disable the report for sale functionality.

Jonathon --

Please check it out -- we're not allowing anyone to advertise your listings and this is not a semantic maneuver. I don't know where you got that quote, but it's not from Zillow and it's not accurate to suggest that you can "Advertise another agent's listings". The feature, which Joel describes quite accurately is labeled "report for sale" and does not allow you to advertise another agents listings on Zillow. I am glad however to read in your takeaways that this innovation triggered some thoughts about the benefits of more transparency in the industry -- that sounds like a win-win scenario.

Jonathon -

You of all people should know that you (happily) relinquish control when you invite more participation -- not gain it.

I just pulled up my home on Zillow. On the right hand side there is a link that says "Tell us it's for sale". If I click that, a pop-up comes up and asks for the price, then I have to choose my relationship to the home: Listing Agent, Owner, Other.

I don't know if there are other choices beyond that, because I don't want to report my home for sale. But if that is all it is, I'm not upset by it. I'm just glad that I know about it, because I know there will be lots of agents in my community that will never know it exists.

Reporting seems be very higly related term to advertising. And even if agents are not allowed to advertise, I mean report another's listings what is stopping them? Does Zillow going to have rules that abide by the MLS rule 190 or is Zillow just going to be put a disclaimer saying that Zillow neither endorses or can verify the accuracy of the information? To me their are many fingers in the pot and it is getting a little crowded and confusing. Maybe it is about time the MLS evolves and opens up the MLS to the public.

Wow,

I can see zillow replacing the MLS and taking a big piece of the market if they can get away with this.

Here in my little corner of the world, that would a violation of our board rules. Since this is a form of advertising a non-listing REALTOR® would need permission from the listing brokerage in order to have it posted on Zillow, assuming the exclusive advertising box was checked on the listing.

David,

Thanks for your reply! You bring up some very good points, and this is an issue that does oh so carefully tote the line. It is clear that Zillow as a company is listing the property as for sale, not the agent. However, it is also clear that the agent who uploaded the listing information to Zillow benefits from providing the listing data to Zillow, by way of getting their picture, name, phone number (on profile page), and a link to their profile, on every listing they upload. To me, indentifying a listing as for sale on a website, and then receiving the benefit of taking that action by being listed as the "agent" on that page is essentially "advertising another agent's listing".

If you look at the example image from a Zillow properties page, "For sale from..." in the body of my post, you will see a little tag that reads "agent". To me that image communicates "For sale from... agent". I thinking it is unreasonable to expect people not to interpret that that "agent" is different from the "listing agent".

WOW!

Just imagine if ... a potential buyer calls the "reporter" since that's the most convenient contact ... and the "reporter" then tells him the home is in an undesirable neighbhood (in his opinion) and suggests another neighborhood ... doesn't this harm the seller (i.e. consumer, i.e. public) by wrongly turning away a potential buyer????

The homes are already on Zillow. The other agent wouldn't not be posting it, just telling Zillow that it's for sale, and the price. Not attempting to represent themselves as the listing agent, not making comments on the property (as far as I can tell).

I would feel differently if agents were actually uploading other listings to the site....but that's not the case. The homes are already there, and the owner, the listing agent, the neighbor, the loan officer or anyone can tell Zillow that it's for sale.

I can't wait to see how this plays out.

Jonathan -

I want to comment on each of your points:

I would argue that this move is not done to put this consumer in control, but instead is made to bring more control to Zillow. AGREE THAT MORE POWER IS GOING TO ZILLOW; DISAGREE THAT CONSUMERS WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM THIS KNOWLEDGE. SINCE THERE IS NO PUBLIC MLS (YET), A CONSUMER IS RELEGATED TO EITHER CONTACTING AN AGENT TO VIEW LISITINGS OR HOPING THAT PROPERTIES ARE BEING DISPLAYED ON REALTOR.COM (WHICH NOT ALL ARE).

It is my opinion that a vast majority of the "new listings" that will be uploaded to Zillow will be done by other practicing agents in the region. AGREE.

I am pro-consumer and want to see any unnecessary boundaries between the home buyer and seller removed. 110% AGREE.

But that is not what is happening here. This move is about using proprietary data in a way that the data owner does not want it to be used in. DISAGREE. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE OWNER DOES NOT WANT THIS INFORMATION DISPLAYED??? AND WHO'S PROPRIETARY DATA IS IT? THE LISTING AGENT'S? IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN WHY DOES A SELLER CONTRACT WITH AN AGENT TO OFFER THIS INFORMATION TO THE BUYING PUBLIC???

As "owners" of the intellectual property (listings), we as an industry need to make a decision regarding which path we are going to take. I LOVE THIS PART!!! WHAT INFORMATION IS 'OWNED' BY WHOM? THE LISTING AGENT USES HIS CREATIVITY IN COMING UP WITH A CATCHY DESCRIPTION AND TAKING PHOTOS OF A PROPERTY, YES, THAT AGENT 'OWNS' THAT PARTICULAR INFORMATION. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PUBLIC FACTS THAT PROPERTY X IS A 3 BEDROOM, 2 BATHROOM HOUSE?...

If Zillow can figure out a way around the MLS rules and create their own national MLS overnight (piggybacking the MLS data), and the Multiple Listings Services and real estate industry choose to look the other way, then they've successfully capitalized on an available opportunity. Some would argue that that is the goal of running a business. ZILLOW IS PUSHING THE ENVELOPE HERE BECAUSE THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY IS DRAGGING ITS FEET. THERE WILL COME A TIME IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE WHEREBY THE RE INDUSTRY WILL HAVE TO COME UP WITH A NATIONAL MLS. SOMEBODY IS GOING TO DO IT, WHETHER ITS A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE OR NAR OR WHOMEVER...BUT THE FULL AND TRANSPARENT DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION IS COMING...WHY DON'T WE LEARN TO ADOPT AND ADAPT RATHER THAN SCRATCH AND CLAW AT THE ENEVITABLE?

However, if this is not what the real estate industry wants with their data then we have to speak up and be clear in our intentions. LET ME ASK THIS: WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME (AS AN AGENT, BOUND BY CERTAIN LAWS AND COE'S) NOTIFYING THE PUBLIC THAT CERTAIN PROPERTIES ARE ON THE MARKET VERSUS A RANDOM PERSON (WITH NO LIABILITY ISSUES) CONTACTING ME, ASKING FOR EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY ON THE MARKET (TO WHICH I SUPPLY), AND THEN HE GOES TO ZILLOW AND PUTS UP ALL OF THE PROPERTIES FOR SALE?

MY MAIN CONCERN IS THAT CERTAIN ROGUE OR ILL-INTENTIONED FOLKS COULD COMPLICATE THINGS BY SCREWING AROUND AND SAYING THEIR NEIGHBORS HOUSE IS ON THE MARKET, OR BY HYPING UP A CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOOD, OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES...THAT'S WHERE I SEE IT GETTING HAIRY. HOW IN THE WORLD CAN THEY POLICE THAT?

BUT MY MAIN ISSUE HERE IS THAT HOMEOWNERS WANT AS MUCH EXPOSURE OF THEIR PROPERTY AS POSSIBLE (WOULD YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS?). THEN WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD THEY NOT WANT THIS INFORMATION BEING ON SITES SUCH AS ZILLOW? THE MORE PEOPLE SEE THAT THEIR HOUSE IS ON THE MARKET, THE HIGHER THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THE HOUSE GETS SEEN, SHOWN AND SOLD!! THE LISTING AGENT IS CONTRACTED BY THE LISTING AGREEMENT, AND GETS PAID REGARDLESS...

I JUST THINK THIS IS ANOTHER GREY AREA WHERE THE RE INDUSTRY IS BEING SLOW TO ADAPT AND, AS A RESULT, IS HINDERING THE FULL DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC.

WILL BE AWAITING YOUR FEEDBACK...

I'm parked and listening for a bit... I'll come back to add my 2 cents... if I think I can add any value to an already valuable conversation.

Kelly -

THANK YOU for kicking the tires! :-) Who's next?

Jonathon -

It is always a pleasure. The text above actually says "For sale info from". If a listing agent posts a listing, we replace that box with one that is titled; "For sale by agent" and if an owner posts it it could either be "by agent" or "For sale by owner". I don't think it could be much clearer but I'm going to pass on your feedback to our designers about the agent badge being too close to the title.

I disagree that

Ok, I just reported my brother's home for sale (it IS for sale and he won't mind - he's the listing agent though). All it let me put in was the price, and I checked "other". It also, while logged in, gave me the option to update the for sale status (sold, pending, etc.) That's it.

It didn't let me say anything about the property other than the price and that it was for sale.

I did think of one issue. We have a lot of new construction in the area, and you do sometimes have to input the info before it hits the tax rolls.

David - is that something that a person would still have to claim as an owner or listing agent? (by the way, I see you are verifying listing agents now!)

Kelly,

I see where you are coming from. But what really makes a "listings" a "listing". I believe that the tax data already on Zillow becomes a listing only once it is listed as for sale.

Before this launch, named "Zillow 5", listing agents already had the ability to upload listing into Zillow, but the key is that only a handful of them chose to do it.

Zillow needed to do something different in order allow a smaller core of active Zillow users/agents populate the entire listings database.

"Paul, Zillow currently has over 70 million properties across the U.S. in their database. Any agent, or any non-agent, for that matter can identify any property in their database as being for sale. (This was in reply to a comment by Paul - as I was posting my reply he removed his comment.)"

Jonathan, Sorry about that, after I posted I reread your Article and noticed that I was mistaken.Next time I'll try to actually COMPREHEND what I'm posting about :)

David,

Sorry, you are right about the text!! Got carried away, trying to juggle a couple things. Do you want me to change the text of that comment by adding the word "info", or just leaving this comment acknowledging my error is okay?

Well, if nothing else, we won't have to pay for our MLS dues anymore. I guess if Zillow really wants to be the Listing Aggregator, then they can bear the responsibility and liability of ensuring that all the data contained on their site is accurate and up to date.

Jonathan, Sorry about that, after I posted I reread your Article and noticed that I was mistaken.Next time I'll try to actually COMPREHEND what I'm posting about :)

I'll get the hang of this thing after a while...forgot to log in.

Much to consider here. Seems that there are apt to be some lawsuits over this. Not all owners are going to want other people to "claim" their home, even if those other people happen to be agents.

Who will be liable if the info entered is incorrect? We all know that the there are many errors to the Auditor's property info which is where Zillow is getting their info. As Realtors®, we're responsible for making sure the info that WE provide on a listing is factually correct.
What controls has Zillow put into place to prevent an angry neighbor from claiming another neighbor's home?
What controls has Zillow put into place to prevent teenagers from playing "tricks" on their friend's homes.
What controls has Zillow put into place to prevent scammers from offering properties for sale - especially undeveloped land. Supposedly some scammers are already doing this - and actually selling the property sight unseen.
How is it a benefit to buyers if the info they see is incorrect and thus, they're misled?

Zillow may find themselves in trouble with the Dept of Commerce who regulates license laws.

Rich,

Haha. That is one way to look at it. :) Another way would be to see that you will be paying your MLS dues, just in a different way - through EZ Ads.

Brian, I am working on getting to your comment. It is long, and I am worn out just thinking about typing a response. ;)

Jonathan,

I don't know what Zillow's intentions were, but my first reaction wasn't that it was to allow the already active agents to populate the database, but to possibly cause the agents that aren't users to get on there and claim their listings before someone else marks it for sale.

But, they allow the listing agent to take over the listing anyway. I know I can be very thick headed sometimes, but I'm really having trouble seeing the problem.

If you, as an agent, don't want someone else to mark your listings for sale, then get on there and claim them first. If you (general) choose not to use Zillow, a well known site, how do you explain that to your sellers? Are they satisfied with the answers?

I think I'm going to step back and just watch the rest of this. Perhaps my short time in the business is hindering my thought process on it.

Kelly,

Exactly!! In a certain sense Zillow is doing a shakedown. I don't think listing agents will pre-emptively list their properties on Zillow, but once someone else is listed as the "agent" on their listing, I think the listing agent will be essentially forced to come in and claim their listing!

I must not understand something about this. Being a mortgage broker, I am not surprised at my ignorance. But if I had a listing and buyer's agents were coming in by the droves to show my listed house, I guess I wouldn't care how the buyer found it. I wonder why advertising another agent's listing is forbidden anyway? Again, I am but a humble mortgage broker...

Quite an interesting "Twist" on things and it shouldn't be long before the listing agents start hollering over this one. Thanks for sharing this info with us.

In our area the properties can be advertised on the internet if they are on the MLS and you check off that the property can be distributed on the web. I just do not know if properties can be individually taken off without consent. I know that in written mail campaigns you can not advertise without consent.

Brian,

This reply could be very very long, so I am going to attempt to address each point specifically, but will omit references to your original comments.

1. Zillow will not be a "public MLS". It is a private, for profit, corporation. Many of this nations MLSes are organizationally speaking far more public than Zillow.

2. When I say "proprietary data ownership", I refer to the listing data which is usually owned by the real estate brokerage who has the "exclusive listing agreement" with the seller. They are the creators of the data, including pictures, written descriptions, etc. I am not legally trained, but yes I have seen it argued that sales price information is not proprietary data.

3. In this post I am making no contention about Zillow displaying any content they legally obtain, including publicly available tax data.

4. Zillow is pushing the envelope and for that I applaud them. As a for profit business they should seek to push forward. But the real estate industry as a whole needs to do their part in maintaining a natural checks and balances. In this case they need to be very proactive in figuring out what stance they are going to take on this issue. In a few weeks Zillow could have a national listings database and it will much harder to unwind at that point.

5. A national MLS is totally different than "full and transparent dissemination of information".

6. "Listings data becoming more open" is a trend that is gaining traction. This is a tactical issue that the real estate industry needs to deal with. Companies like Trulia are leading the charge, and they are making a lot of headway.

7. This is a very important point so I will post your question here.

"WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME (AS AN AGENT, BOUND BY CERTAIN LAWS AND COE'S) NOTIFYING THE PUBLIC THAT CERTAIN PROPERTIES ARE ON THE MARKET VERSUS A RANDOM PERSON (WITH NO LIABILITY ISSUES) CONTACTING ME, ASKING FOR EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY ON THE MARKET (TO WHICH I SUPPLY), AND THEN HE GOES TO ZILLOW AND PUTS UP ALL OF THE PROPERTIES FOR SALE? "

This is getting to the heart of the issue. I have no problem with the consumer, or non-mls member, posting every listing in the country to Zillow. That is their prerogative. They can find the information on any IDX enabled website. But the fact of the matter is they won't do this! They have no reason to! The reason the agents, other than the listing agent, are motivated to upload this listing data onto Zillow is because they are receiving benefit, in the form of advertising/business, from doing it!!!!!! That is the key. If Zillow removed the box that gave credit to the agent that uploaded the information, then to me this whole thing is a non issue. That box, makes what the agent is doing a "listings advertisement".

8. My post is not about people abusing the community nature of Zillow's new features. I think concerns that people slandering their neighbors properties, or artificially inflating their neighborhood is probably being blown out of proportion. Besides, I am sure the Zillow terms of use covers that type of thing. I doubt Zillow is making any sorts of reps or warranties, and they are not likely held to the same levels of fiduciary responsibilities that agents are held to.

9. Not all home owners want as much exposure as possible. I believe that they have the right to determine where or how their home will be marketed. Most home sellers in this country choose to put those marketing related decisions in the hands of licensed real estate agents! This move by Zillow is taking the control/choice out of the consumers hands! This is especially true of high end properties whose sellers are particular about where their property is advertised.

Ryan,

Most Multiple Listing Services have IDX policies in place that allow you to display other agents listings, if they consent, as long as you sign a data download agreement with the MLS and agree to comply with their IDX policies.

It's not easy being green, Kermit the frog said, and I know he believed that people are good and that they want to do there best, and that no matter how or why we might be different from everybody else, we should learn to love who we are and be proud of it, a quote from Ray Charles. As a realtor, I am poud to be a newbee, or is it now a newcomer? and I am thankfull for places like active rain, which provides me with invaluable information, and directions, to beneficial conversation such as this. This past weekend I wrote a listing, a new realtors dream, and was I ever pumped, that is until I received a notice from our board, I had missed renewing my MLS fee by a day, and my listing would not be posted. After months and months of studying, and fees upon fees, and dues upon dues, the ultimate listing had finally occurred, and here I was. I drove over and payed the fee, shame on me, but I wondered all the way there and back, was the tail wagging the dog? who serves who?. My great listing, for which I am proud, is located between to major metropolitan areas, and served by two different MLS areas. I inquired of management, how can I list in both and truly benefit my client? and it was suggested I contact someone in the organization who has paid dues to both, and perhaps for a percentage of the listing fee, they will provide me with the optional exposure in the other MLS. Now my friends, ask me if Zillow is not a great idea. Will I have a problem with 70 million people seeing this listing, not at all. Would it bother me if someone else was kind enough to tell the world about it? not at all. What if they improperly state the facts? Hope they have E&O. Thanks folks, I have read everything you have stated, and continue to do so, But, bottom line, my responsibility is, as it should be with all of us, to serve our clients.as we promised with the maximum amount of exposure, and this sounds great.

Advertising another agent's listing without their permission is against our board rules her in Northern Illinois. Sherry

Jack, Besides ActiveRain I have an ownership interest in a real estate company, and you can be assured that nearly all of our listings are posted on Zillow. We actually take the initiative on a corporate level to do this. We as a company made that choice and our sellers have supported that choice. Other companies/sellers may not agree that that is the best way for them to market their home. If we are really talking about the needs of the consumer, then they should have the right to dictate where their listing is or is not listed.

Jonathan -

I really appreciate your input on this.

Would you mind conversing about this over the phone sometime? I'm totally fascinated with your train of thought...

What do you think?

In Arizona, only a licensed real estate agent (or the property owner) can discuss price and availability. Zillow's encouraging such discussions by allowing the general public to "report" homes that are for sale.

And to one other point I read far above, there's no reason not to discuss Zillow. The strategy of ignoring it in hopes it would go away proved useless a year ago and are no better now.

Just had a cool off-line conversation with Brian. I love it when other Rainers call me up. Nice talking with you. Crazy times in real estate, huh?

Jonathan -

Sorry about the ALL CAPS thing...great talking with you. ActiveRain is in awesome hands...I wish you the best of luck on your ventures and rest assured that you'll find me on AR for a good long time to come. Now I've got to get busy putting all of the listings on Nantucket on Zillow!!! :)

I'm parked on this...

BLR

In our RHode Island MLS board we have an option on each and every listing if we want it to be an IDX listing. This allows other agents across the state to have a listing on their web site but it does identify the listing agent and company.It is in rather small print and honestly I have never been a fan of IDX but it has grown with popularity.

I am in favor of marketing a property in South County or all parts of Rhode Island exclusively through the MLS system. I also feel that we have a better ability to represent a seller by having total control of marketing. By doing this we also know what the response is from the public. The seller would never know how many times someone inquired about their property through Zillow because many agents would try to switch them off to their own properties or properties they were more familiar with. In effect this would be an injustice to our fiduciary that pay a substantial amount of money to sell their house. Food for thought

RI State House

I tried out the 'Tell us it's for sale' feature with one of my team's listings. Here are my thoughts:

If an agent does this for every property in their farm area and the price or status changes, will that agent update the info on Zillow in a timely manner? Absolutely not.
It looks like the system allows me to upload photos. Why? And will the photos accurately reflect the house?
The 'For Sale Info From ...' box indicates "Listing agent unknown." That's completely false. If I went to the MLS to see if the property was for sale and to get the current list price, I also had access to the listing agent's identity.
The layout of the property page is horrible. The home's data is surrounded on all sides by advertising (Lending Tree or Zip Realty on my page). So the 'For Sale Info From ...' box gets totally lost in the layout. And when buyers scroll down to read the Home Facts, the 'For Sale Info From ...' box isn't even on the screen any more! (But two ads from Lending Tree are.)
The 'For Sale Info From ...' box is free. Well, you get what you pay for. Don't expect a very high response rate on these, if any.

Why wait for someone else to input the information on your listings? I am going to zillow.com right now and doing mine. I do not think the system is perfect but it does get a lot of traffic and look at how many comments it has created in just one day.

Might this not be like MLX where we can send out other listings to potential clients? I'm unsure if there is a real difference here. I understand the frustration, but I would think it would compare

Great post. Sharing of information like this with fellow Realtors is what makes AR so amazing!

Zillow has been perceived as a threat for a while, I am not sure I understand why but that doesn't negate the fact that zillows is someone seen as an enemy to us Realtors! I guess the YELLING that's been going on here and YELLING in BOLD no less... means that Realtors are offended by this new feature (even after it was clarified) Information is Free --- knowledge is priceless; good realtors have nothing to be afraid of.

I'm so sorry about my ALL CAPS being perceived as yelling...good heaven's, where did my onlne blogging etiquette go? I'm not offended and I'm not yelling...please, those reading this do not misconstrue my previous post SPEAKING LIKE THIS as anything but trying to make clear my comments to Jonathan's (outstanding) posts...cheers...and Joanne you're right...good Realtors have nothing to worry about... :)

I have some commentary. Jon, you did a great job bringing up the moral dilemma that exists when an agent deliberately breaks the Realtor Code of Ethics. Practicing the "reporting method" in Zillow as a licensed agent is deliberately doing something that is wrong. I would define that as...well, let's not bring up the e word again.

Are there loopholes? Absolutely! An enterprising mortgage broker might act as a shill for her Realtor friends and hire teenagers to upload all the all the listings in an area. The lender wouldn't be violating any Realtor Cose of Ethics and can really add value there. That begets this question...where did she (the lender) get the listing data? The trail ends with the Realtor violating an MLS rule by offering the passwords to the lender.

Most of the comments here sound very protectionist which is what the real estate technology companies scream about NAR. Guess what? The consumers will have the final word when they vote with their eyeballs and pocketbooks. If we take Jessica Horton's advice and raise a stink about this, will the consumer backlash with a "throw the bums out ?

I think NAR has to suspend each and every member who violates the rule about "reporting" another's listing on Zillow. If they want to show that they are serious about the Code of Ethics, they might start at home. Only then, will they have the moral high ground to attack Zillow

It's pretty simple though guys, just advertise your own listings! Makes life a lot easier to follow the rules your State expects of you.

Wow Brian, what a clever idea! Get your mortgage broker to upload the listings and you partner with them. Do you know of any mortgage brokers that would be open to this type of partnership? ;) ;) One problem: If a mortgage broker uploads the listings then they will have to register with Zillow under the "other" tag and thus will not be listed as an "agent". A possible work around is for a mortgage broker to be a licensed agent, and just not be a member of NAR or any MLS. That way they can be listed on Zillow as an agent, and not be bound by any pesky MLS or NAR rules.

The listing data doesn't need to come from a password protected mls site. Any IDX enabled website will do.

Yes I do believe that as an industry we would benefit by not being afraid of technology and working towards becoming more consumer centric.

Interestingly enough Jonathan, I am registered as a mortgage broker at Zillow. I wonder how that will display me tot he public in Q&A

I love your lead in, Jonathan. I think this is an EXCELLENT value add a lender can provide for a Realtor. The ambitious mortgage broker will hire teenagers to scour an IDX site for all of the listings in a zip code and enter them under his/her profile.

Carole makes a great point about just advertising your own listings; that is the simple thing to do. Let me suggest something, though. Sometimes it pays to be a bit of a maverick.

If I spend $200 a month, I'm going to get 10,000 impressions on two distinct zip codes: Del Mar and Solana Beach, CA. Let's say that there is 10-15 new lsitings a day in those zip codes and it takes 10 hours a week in labor to add those listings to Zillow. Add another $400 for labor costs and I'm in the game as a dominant player for $600/month. If those two zip codes close 80 transactions monthly, is it conceivable that I can get initial contact for 4-5 of them?

A $800,000 price point is not unreasonable for this market. Would you pay $600 for a better than average shot at $2,000,000 in closed loan volume within 3-4 miles of your home while developing a valuable Realtor relationship?

I just added my own listing to zillow and "reported" a listing of my mother-in-laws. I guess I better stay on her good side, or she might report me! (love you mom!)

Here's what I found - on my listing the side bar has "for sale by agent" and my picture really big. My name is linked to my bio and my company and phone number are listed prominently.

On the "reported" listing the side bar says "for sale info from" and my picture is much smaller and there is no contact info listed (the consumer needs to click my name link to see my info). There are also two bullets under my picture which say: Listing agent unknown and Are you the listing agent or owner? Take over your listing.

I felt deceptive entering the reported information and it was my mother-in-laws listing. I can't imagine doing it for a true competitor. I also wonder how I will answer when a consumer calls me about "my" listing. That might be a hard thing to answer truthfully without sounding fishy.

I also know agents aren't supposed to advertise a listing that is sold, expired or canceled. So do I now need to keep track of all the listings I added and keep them up-to-date?

Sherry

Let me give you another idea. Proudly proclaim that you are "on Zillow". Put it on your business cards and advertisements. I see people advertise "As Seen on TV" all of the time or "heard on KFYI radio" all of the time. OWN the Zillow channel. The consumers THINK that is t"real estate channel" on the web.

I'm on Zillow and you're not...does that make me a better mortgage broker? Probably not, but I'll tell your customers it does

Wow, all I can say is look out! This opens up so many cans of worms that we can't even see yet. I'm all for change and transition to new methods but this is clearly an invitation for the unethical practitioners.

Zillow might have to add a place for Listing Office Name so not to get lots of people in trouble right off the bat. I also think there is a rule specifically stating one agent shouldn't advertise another agent's listing. Here are some snippets from the Realtor Code of Ethics.

Article 12

Realtors^® shall be careful at all times to present a true picture in their advertising and representations to the public.

Standard of Practice 12-5

Realtors^® shall not advertise nor permit any person employed by or affiliated with them to advertise listed property in any medium (e.g., electronically, print, radio, television, etc.) without disclosing the name of that Realtor^®'s firm in a reasonable and readily apparent manner. (Adopted 11/86, Amended 1/07)

Standard of Practice 12-10

Realtors^®' obligation to present a true picture in their advertising and representations to the public includes the URLs and domain names they use, and prohibits Realtors^® from:

1) engaging in deceptive or unauthorized framing of real estate brokerage websites;

2) manipulating (e.g., presenting content developed by others) listing content in any way that produces a deceptive or misleading result; or

3) deceptively using metatags, keywords or other devices/ methods to direct, drive, or divert Internet traffic, or to otherwise mislead consumers. (Adopted 1/07)

Brian - I don't think you need to follow these rules since you aren't a Realtor. "Sometimes it pays to be a bit of a maverick." Realtors just have to make sure being a maverick doesn't cost them their license or up to $5000 in fines.

Agreed, Sherry.

Find a non-Realtor to help you with it and refer the calls to you.

I don't see a lot of difference between advertising another broker's listings and placing your sign on a property that is really listed with another broker and that's a no-no. So why isn't advertising another broker's listing the same thing?

Change is coming, get on the train or you may be ran over. I proudly promote the fact that my listings are on Zillow.com, craigslist.org and many other "less traditional sites" on my profile here, there and everywhere. The first thing I talk about regarding marketing at a listing presentation is that "We do things differently....". I want to promote my listings to the LARGEST pool of buyers available, and whereas lot of buyers shop Realtor.com, I use to pay for extras and NEVER got the response that I have gotten from these other sites!

Today, I posted my 1st EZ Ad at zillow.com and I'm excited about the affordable easy to use format! My 1st thought on reading Jonathan's post was "How Cool"! Then I slowed down and though about the potential situations for abuse, which I admit are huge. I have mixed feelings on this issue, but love the thought process and the fact that Zillow pushes the envelope, because I want to be as progressive & proactive as they are.

Wow, this is starting to sound like they are paying me (and Drew didn't even pick me lol!) so I'll just say that much as I love double dippin' by selling my own listings, my #1 goal is to expose my listings to the largest pool of buyers and Zillow does a great job of helping do that!

APR

2007

I have mixed feelings on this issue, but love the thought process and the fact that Zillow pushes the envelope, because I want to be as progressive & proactive as they are

...and that's why you'll dominate your market in the next 5 years, Michelle; you think outside of the box

APR

2007

If someone else enters my listings will their photo always remain on it? Also, they had better be writing their own description and not using my photos or I will be peeved. Are they also going to come back and change the price for me or mark it sold? I really dont want someone else posting my listings anywhere.

I've been out of the loop for over a week now, and this news just boggles my mind. I have not read any other comments, but this seems to be against our ethical obligations to our fellow real estate agents. If you identify a property for sale, and your photo and info gets linked to it, then the consumer finds you to be the listing agent. Completely false advertising. Unfair to the consumer because the agent they contact may give them wrong/bad information, and unfair to the listing agent.

APR

2007

I agree with Jim and Maria Hart. A fellow agent and friend of mine was holding a Sunday Open House at one of my listings for me. The listing was loaded February 7. When someone asked how long the home had been on the market, she told them, "Well, I know it was on over the holidays..." Even though I had provided plenty of information for her, including all the activity in the neighborhood, including dates. No one cares about your listing the way that you do.

APR

2007

Jonathan,

I think like several of the commenters that this is just another step in the evolution of real estate that is inevitable given the reach and impact of the Internet. Agents who stomp their feet and wring their hands in despair will join the dinosaurs. Those who see opportunities (can you say "Type E"?) will continue to prosper because they recognize that the one absolute in business and in life is CHANGE. After looking at this post, I decided to place one of my active listings on Zillow.

APR

2007

This is very interesting. Thanks for making us aware.

APR

2007

Zillow is not subject to the rules of the mls so they are definitely free to "rock the boat". Will be interesting to see how agents are affected and if they will be fined or just told to remove it.

I have notice zillow not totally accurate. I use it as a cross reference but I don't trust the information as much as MLS. I noticed Condos and Lofts searches are not very accurate. The comparative market analysis is 75% of the time not even close to being accurate. I tell my clients it is a decent resource but nothing to take to serious because the records are not as creditable as MLS. Zillow is ambigus because the origination of information, by not having guidelines to whom can post what listings and allowing the listings to have shadow agent. Therefore Zillow looses creditability.

Zillow will not be penalized for false listings, Realtors are the ones in danger. What about Realtors reputations could Zillow make the consumer to think Realtors are not need because the can go to Zillow?

I believe in educating the consumer with creditable resources. I am not against Zillow but needs to improve there filtering system. It's needs accurate information, INTEGRITY!

What about the NLS, point 2 homes? It is trying to become the next MLS. I believe it could.

APR

2007

I am unsure how I feel about this whole Zillow situation. I just put a listing on there becasue I feel it is in my client's best interest.

The whole real estate game is on the move.

APR

2007

UPDATE!! According to a post on Condo Domain:

Massachusetts MLS Takes Action:

"Recently, the On-Line Valuation site, Zillow announced a new function being made available to advertise listings for sale on that site, whether or not you are the listing broker/agent. The MLS Rules and Regulations, STRICTLY PROHIBIT the advertising of another broker’s listings without their prior WRITTEN consent. The REALTOR® Code of Ethics, Standard of Practice 12-4 also prohibits the advertising of a listing without proper authority. Better safe than sorry; do not advertise another office’s listing anywhere without prior written approval."

Hi Jonathon -

FYI - we're working to get in touch with the Massachusetts MLS and hope to clear up their confusion. If you have their contact details, I'd appreciate it if you could forward those on.

I understand that the MLS rules prohibit the advertising of another brokers' listings without their consent. We do not tolerate that on Zillow and will remove from the site listings that are advertised someone other than the owner or the listing agent.

It is however perfectly legitimate for agents and others to tell people that homes are for sale. This is how many (if not most) homes actually do sell today; a listing agent advertisers a property and often it will be other agents that tell prospective buyers about it. That conversation is now happening on Zillow and it's a conversation that is very clearly is not an advertisement - either offline or online. If all agents stopped telling buyers what homes were on the market, houses would become far harder to sell.

Let me be very clear that our preference is to have the owner or listing agent choose to advertise their listings on Zillow -- it's free -- our site has a massive audience of home buyers and sellers -- why wouldn't you? But if the listing agent chooses not to advertise on Zillow, we're committed to answering a many question buyers have, which is "is this home for sale" -- and it is perfectly legitimate for any member of the Zillow community to answer that question for them.

David,
I just wish that Zillow would not incentivize non listing agents to tell Zillow about the listings. It is a very clever marketing strategy on Zillow's part, but it does blur the lines as to whether or not the "telling agent" is in fact advertising that listing.

(This is a reposting of a previous comment in which I was accidently logged in as ActiveRain - this post/comment is just my personal opinion, does not necessarily reflect ActiveRain)

Ardell,

Zillow is not subject to the rules of the mls so they are definitely free to "rock the boat"

Zillow is a member of the NWMLS. I wonder in what capacity they must abide by the rules depending on in what capacity they use that membership. Any idea?

MAY

2008

Dont we already do this with IDX.

APR

The word "Advertising" is defined as: Attracting public attention to a product or service. This practice definately does that and I don't see how it isn't "Advertising".

However, as a listing agent - my goal is to sell my listings, any extra advertising that gets the job done is welcome. As a buyers agent, when I see a new listing, I immediately send that to all my clients.

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