Rich...

I still think that people shoot themselves in the foot when they do this. When I perform a search, and the top site returns crap like that, I just bounce off anyway.

So what if you're number one on Google if you have NOTHING to say. It never works!

If we are supposed to be transparent in blogging, I think people that post these sorts of posts are exactly that.  The unfortunate thing about your excellent post here, is the folks that do this sort of thing are not really part of our community and are so selfish they wont even read this post or the rules.

Thank you, Rich.

I have seen it and it makes me ill. Taking advantage of all (the majority) of us who plug away at adding good original content regularly.

Problem is the people who violate the guidelines rarely read or comment, just post crap over and over again.

Rich! How are you?  Great points you have made here... There is a time and place for everything.

Listings when written well have their place.  Copying and pasting MLS reports...well...not saying anything but come on now.

Originality here is always rewarded by all of you.

Sorry to see it's 53 degrees where you live...It was 85 or close to 90 and sunny and hot here...then again, how I love the fall in PA with the leaves changing, canning the rest of the fall vegies...OK Karen, get over it your a Floridian now... LOL...

Seriously, great info here, thank you so much for always reminding us of the basics!

Oh there are TOO MANY of these content stuffers here on Active Rain now.   GREAT idea to put this here, so that others "get" what the rest of us have been doing for YEARS now.

Rich, I've never seen such obvious keyword stuffing as your example, thank goodness. I personally try to do targeted posts, but they are original content based on material facts about specific cities and neighborhoods. Looks like I'm good to go. Thanks.

I, of course, got totally paramoid, wondering if I was guilty of "blackhat SEO" or keword stuffing.  I think I'm ok. 

Thank you for the reminders of the proper community guidelines.  I personally haven't seen posts to this extent but I have seen some similar but in a smaller scale.  A a new AR member who has read portions of the guidelines, it's always good to be reminded of what is expected.

I'd be happy with no listings on this site.  It is disappointing to go to a person and find listings for their area.  Perhaps we could be warned not to go. 

Last in this series?  I hope not!  Even if we know this stuff, it's such a good reminder.  Maybe you should just go back to #1 and start over...

Hi Rich- I have seen these mls lists a couple of times, but didn't realize they were scamming the SEO. 

Could you answer a question for me...  At some point in the future, are the Consumer & Professional Channels on AR going to be separated in the 'subscribed' blogs too, so AR Realtor subscribers are not fed posts intended for consumers only?  I have heard people lately say that they have unsubscribed to people who post a lot of consumer info & listings.  Wondered if separation of the channels was part of the AR future vision for subscription blog view too.

Thanks for all you do to make it Rain.

I have never seen a post such as the Jonesville example. It is hard to believe that it is a real post.

As for the copied MLS data, I have seen many examples of such posts. Quite a few on Localims pages.

How to have members read these guideline posts. There ought to be some mandatory reading before the initial post.

Richard

Rich - I always look forward to your posts, except these Guidelines.  I get the same feeling that I used to get when I had to go to confession on Saturday nights.  I have found that I am a little bit guilty of something in each one of these guideline posts.  Then I go look at my blog and see if I have been bad or not, and clean up my blog (act).  So now I think I am guilty of keyword stuffing.  I probably did it.  Who do I need to apologize to?  Everytime I do anything wrong I get caught.  So I will go check and remove anything more than say, 3 keywords per post?  And don't say it should sound natural.  It never does anyway.  This is how I talk.  Thank goodness for photos.

The good news is that this is the last one!  I will be completely reformed by morning!

GPTFS

I see a lot of these posts and I just laugh.... First of all they are racking up points since they are doing it for every neighborhood in every city that they do business in.  They also don't analyze the results so the consumer doesn't get any verbage or analytical interpretation. 

Now that you posted these guidelines, what happens if this still happens... Like Missy said above, these people won't even read these guidelines.

I guess the obvious question is whether AR deleted those posts, or did they just get the kersplatt and remain on the network? Unless they're deleted, there is no incentive for the poster to stop.

Rich,

I did not know what you meant by blackhat, but that is a good example.

That example really helps me understand what you mean.  I have seen those kinds of blogs and I just thought they were cut and paste for points.

Rich - Since I consider myself to be one of the people who tries to generate quality content on a somewhat consistent basis here on ActiveRain, this type of behavior really does irk me.  Thanks for taking the time to put this information out there for everyone.

Hi Rich, I have heard many suggest that the point system is no good. I have heard others defend it seemingly with their lives. I have see the gamers who put the 50 word posts up with most of the content of the post mostly copied and the rest of their post is advertising. When you mentioned that the object ( or least the emphasis should be) about engaging the readers with worthwhile content, this concept did not resonate with them.

I guess the subjectiveness of that will vary, especially for the few that take total advantage of the loopholes. It is sad that this their unique brand of human nature and they just don't get it. They don't even care about it.

Our world is not perfect because none of us can be, so we should do what we can , where we can and at the end of the day, the Ar system works and 99.99% is working fine and there are few business with that sort of high percentage of excellence. For the 01%, they will either continue or be replaced and probably by others just like them. You never know which apple will spoil but you can pretty certain in a big barrel, at least some will. Such is life I suppose.

 hi Rich, so much for common sense, re "Do not attempt... blackhat SEO techniques, such as Keyword Stuffing, or by posting endless copied sections of your local MLS"...

 Not to mention that's a great way to get your blog or website banned from Google. Once that happens, good luck getting it listed again. It happens but it's a major pain and expensive if you don't now how to do it yourself.

 Play nice, play fair and in the end the work is worth it!

Rich:

As always the efforts of AR to make this a colaborative network where folks CAn be successful in their businesses is much appreciated, and in particular your sumamries on the guidelines. It's a shame folks need the reminders but as we grow adn change it will only become more important. Too bad some have to try and take advantage and game the system to the detriment of others.

Jeff

Rich,

Thanks for the post. I am still learning about his SEO process. I did not realize that the second example, seen on numerous occasions here, was in fact an example of the black hat technique. Thanks for the heads up.

Copying and pasting data from the MLS could also result in a large fine.

Intimately speaking....:)  I kind of knew that there was something going on with me and this network.

You said, "They are intimately co-dependent"

I always say "I am a recovering codependent". I guess your statement made me realize.....I am a codependent in the highest sense .....that I keep my balance and still ...this codependency that we have is a good thing :) :)

Greater transparency... as in 'bare naked real estate?' My content is always original... now if I could just figure out how to get a star!

Yippee!   Thanks Rich.  

Hey Rich I dropped by to see if you know of any good Realtors in the Jonesville area? LOL

Hi Rich.  Is that how you stuff a post with keywords.  I was trying to figure it out...

Just kidding.

Thanks for the reminders,

Ken

Rich, I completely appreciate the resources here and though still learning it is amazing that folks would take advantage of the system. Heck I am too busy trying to post decent material to try and learn about black hats and other oddball scams. Thanks for reiterating the guidelines!

Thanks Rich for your post here. It is very helpful to read about all the nuances of posting good content here and it is good to be reminded of also what not to do as well. Appreciate your observations and guidance here.

Rich, doesn’t make much sense to me why anyone would post gibberish when they are trying to show their professionalism online…  at any rate thanks for keeping us tuned in to the workings of our community here on AR. 

Raleigh Realtor – Pamela St. Peter

Hi Sparky - Thanks for the post - I do have a question though.  Does Active Rain mind if we blog on topics other than just real estate (also other than Localism posts) or do I need to start that on another blog site all together?

Thanks,

Emily

Rich... While I agree with your stance about dumping MLS information into a post I feel compelled to comment since I do publish a monthly market report with a similar look to what you have shown here.  I do type my own information because I like upper and lower case lettering and prefer to minimize abbreviations but the end result looks like an MLS dump.  As far as consumer value some do pay attention to this type of data.  A prospective buyer once questioned me on an asking price because he knew it was "originally listed higher" and yesterday a guy I ran into mentioned he was looking forward to seeing my next set of numbers.

Hi Rich, Thanks for your post and the clarifications.  I get real irritated when there are posts to Localism and then all the realtor advertising at the end, thought we were not suppose to adveritse that way on Localism???

Rich,  Wow makes me have to think on my post content again.  I do try to repeat the occassionaly key work versus using "it" or "they" but phew, safe for the moment.  Some people will post anything (usually as I've seen quite a bit of comment...for points and google ratings) and that just seems to be the nature of the beast.

I use my AR blog to promote my listings in such a way that they are DIFFERENT than what is found on the MLS.  Most internet buyers have already seen the MLS listing, and may have seen the Realtor.com listing.  I'm not doing my sellers a favor by duplicating already boring content....

I write my blogs like one would write a magazine article, or a paper for a creative writing class.  I take my blog very seriously and I want people to fall in love with a property after reading about it on my blog.  I have gotten comments from readers saying they "love" my voice, and I have gotten listings because potential sellers have seen my blogs and wanted me to approach their home with as much personal care and attention.

It's not doing anyone any good to be copying and pasting cold hard data from the MLS.  You may get a lot of clicks but I doubt many returns.

Hi Rich, thanks for the education. I have never seen any posts like that myself, which kind of says something in itself. If no one reads it, how worthwhile is it? Just to get points? And SEO? But when someone does hit on your blog, will they stay there?

I guess things like this are what everyone is complaining about with the point system. Maybe there should be some kind of tiered points- like 100 for a listing, 200 for a localism, 100 for a joke, etc.  But then it gets too complicated, and who would monitor that?  I'm sure you guys will figure it out.

Linda

Rich ... this is a great post you have written.  Thanks for giving your position!

pippa

Rich- thanks for posting this. I have seen people using black hat seo techniques and it really annoys me. I always try to provide information that's valuable to consumers. Thanks for the post. Leander

How about the "NOTES" at the end of a post

when it says

....real esteta for sale...........If you are looking for.....RE contactme We service ares like ............ out. Re compnay here in............... help buyers and sellers in..............

Is this ok or not and how much of it is ok?

I would think that would be OK, Anne, as long as it's not the main content of your post! There's nothing wrong with a call to action that is SEO friendly as long as it's not SPAMMY, and that's the fine line that can be tricky to walk.

Some of the "notes" are blog posts in and of themselves, and are not to my taste at all - especially if they have huge, almost gaudy buttons - but hey, they work for someone.  The point is - is the blog itself good original content?

I've seen several of the posts that Rich is talking about. Add to that the fact that some bloggers post nothing but dry boring market reports...booooooring, and not very original.  One of the best market reports I've ever seen was by Marchel Peterson, here.  She puts more thought and effort into her report; she does not just regurgitate raw data from the MLS.

Rich,  I'm glad you brought up that first example.  That is very extreme but what about the posts that do the same thing but on a less extreme level.

Here is what I'm contemplating on doing.  I want to post market reports for about 40 small towns around Atlanta and have links in them pointing back to my various websites using keyword rich anchor text.  This way I can get some of that ActiveRain Google Juice flowing to my sites.  I think I have contributed much good content in the past but I don't think I've been taking advantage of everything ActiveRain has to offer.

Below is a condensed version of what I'm thinking about. Of course I would put a few pictures in there in order to make it look pretty and read easier.  Imagine all the links I would have pointing to my other sites if I did this every month?   Let me know if this is OK.  I love ActiveRain.

Atlanta Real Estate Report October 2008- Atlanta Homes For Sale, Condos and Townhomes for Sale in Atlanta.

Atlanta homes for Sale. Atlanta real estate Report October 1, 2008.  This is the current list of Atlanta homes for Sale - Single family detached homes fee simple and condominiums and town homes. Atlanta is located in North GA where  I-75 and I-85 meet.  You can find some great Atlanta homes for Sale right here! 

Atlanta homes for sale: $100,000-$200,000
Atlanta condos for sale: $100,000-$200,000
Atlanta townhomes for sale: $100,000-$200,000

Looking for Atlanta real estate?  Are you buying or selling a home or real estate in Atlanta Georgia? Searching  for Atlanta homes and not finding the home you want? Do you want an experienced Atlanta real estate agent that will help you buy a home in Atlanta? Call Tim Maitski, Atlanta Realtor at 404-216-0472

Lynn Afton:  I don't know that we have any plans to categorize your 'subscribed' list. Currently, the dashboard is defaulted to the 'Professional' category, which I like. Members typically subscribe to writers they enjoy and derive value from reading regularly, regardless of whether it's professional or consumer oriented. If you find that you don't care for someone you've subscribed to, such is the beauty of the unsubscribe button!'

Richard Smith:  Ripley's Believe It or Not...the Jonesville post is an actual post, just the names were changed to protect the guilty!

Virginia:   You totally crack me up!

Elaine:   In both instances, we're attempting to work with these members and encourage them to post content of greater value, both for consumers, and for the common good of the network.

William J:   A very thorough and astute observation!

Frank:   An excellent reminder!

Susie:  Get yer mind out of the gutter!

Bill:   Hilarious!

Emily:  While this is a Real Estate Network, it's also a social network. Most of us have interests and passions outside of our jobs, and it's only natural for us to write about those things here. Personally, I think consumers want to see that side of us. I try to maintain a balance.

Dan:   I think it's perfectly acceptable when interspersed with a balanced variety of articles. Market reports and analysis are an important element in your overall local blogging strategy. Where we take issue is when these endless copied portions are all they ever post.

Anne:   That's a really good question. Seth Godin, well known marketing guru, would say that things like that constitute 'Interruption' marketing. It's self-promotional 'noise' that consumers have learned to tune out and gloss over. It tends to clutter and distract from the value of your content. There are so many posts here where the 'Notes' at the end of the post take up more space than the actual content!!

AR does a good job of providing adequate means for readers to find you with your signature tag at the bottom of each post, and your profile pic and links to the right. My suggestion is that if you feel it necessary to add 'notes' or buttons or signatures, keep it very clean and simple.

Thanks Rich, I have seen a lot of posts and comments about whether a certain topic "belongs" on ActiveRain, so I was not sure.  But if you say it's ok then I will :)

Rich:  Glad to see this post as a couple of us in Michigan have brought it to your attention that there is someone posting 10 times in a day about the same thing.  You have spoken to him and he keeps doing it.  I just now went to check and he is still #1 in Oakland county where I focus and there are THREE consecutive posts with the SAME PICTURE of the guy he is trying to promote - none of his content is original.  He is also #1 in Royal Oak where I post the most and am #1 in that city - how does he get to be "top Neighbor" there?

I know he was taken off the #1 spot in Michigan but I don't see ActiveRain doing anything about this when the community has pointed it out - and your post suggests that you do.  It just irks me that the integrity of Localism and Activerain is jeopardized and those of us that really try to put quality content are jeopardized.  I err on the side of posting less if it is not the contribution that this site deserves.  I cancelled all my community sponsorships yesterday. 

Rich - I was reading through some of your responses, and I was distressed to realize that the Jonesville post was real!  Yikes!

Rich,  What actions were taken against the Jonesville guy?  Was the post removed?  Is he being monitored for similar posts in the future? Or has it been allowed to stand?

From comments I've read in the past, it seems like when posts like that are flagged, nothing seems to happen, at least from our perspective.  I know it's tough to keep up with it, but when community members try to flag abuses and nothing seems to be done about it, after awhile they stop bothering to flag things.  Then it is assumed that such practices are condoned and others begin to follow the bad practices.

Yup...tuning out the noise is what the consumer is doing now. They are picking and choosing who they want and all that noise takes away from the person...the post...and if there is any good content...the content.

I don't complain toooo much but when all this noise is transferring to Localim it looks sick on the home page of Hawaii. We need some good content and the ones who complained about getting their nonsense on Localism are the ones posting all this junk.

Sally, I agree totally !

Hi Rich -- I know you are too busy to be Active Rain Cops and to give these types of posts the boot -- and after a couple of warnings the "author" as well.  I do agree, however, that these types of people just shoot themselves in the foot!  They are transparent and I think the consumer will see through their tricks.

Hey Rich, I'm glad you guys are aware of the problem.  I've seen both the keyword stuffing posts as well as people cutting and pasting content from other sites and our mls.  

Round 'em up and show them the door. 

http://activerain.com/blogs/verticallending?page=2

gaming? Do you mean like re-blogging your own articles over and over and over and over and over and over again..... with small little keyword changes. Is this what you mean?

Salem Oregon real estate, Salem homes, Salem Oregon real estate, Salem homes, Salem Oregon, Real Estate, Homes, Top Producer Salem Oregon homes, #1 Agent Salem Oregon Real Estate, Real Estate Agent...

I feel better now...business will be rolling in...

I mean who could pass up a post like that.  I can't wait to use that agent because they sound totally knowledgeable. 

I just don't get why people do things like that, but that is why I am my own boss.  I'd have to strangle the agent who advertises like that, and then I'd end up in jail...It would be bad all around.

wow I had no idea this type of thing is going one. Typical people always looking for shortcuts and ways to game the system.

Rich:

Really answer the guy from Atlanta above, he seems like he could also be a little out to the left with what he wants to do on his posts.  PLEASE set a precedence and answer a comment so that we all know what is appropriate with an example.  I can just see 'Tim' from Atlanta trying to push the envelope by asking questions like what happened to the other guy!  (Cause if it ain't bad - maybe I'll give it a go) Maybe I'm the only person seeing it but if you say 'this is inappropriate' and 'this - this or this' will be done with your post.  It sets an example for us all to HONOR. 

There will always be people that will press an issue and irritate all the other great kids playing in the sandbox.

Rich-I've seen pleny of agents  do exactly what Tim from Atlanta asked you about.  Of course most of the long and getting longer signature lines that we are seeing on AR are just another form of the practice.  When the signature line is longer than the post I think it might be a problem:-)

Rich, glad i found your featured post so that i can go back and read the whole context. I myself don't like reading MLS posts myself much either. There's not to much personality involved in that.  If we all play well together, we'll keep getting stronger and more resilient. At least that the vision I hold. I saw on one of Brad Andersohn's post about this email sig thing like below. Is that considered ok etiquette on AR? I like the way it looks. Aloha from Kauai

Ron:   Be careful where you leave that thing. Some folks might consider it 'Comment SPAM' and give your comment the Deep 6!

Lyn:   Elaine had the same question, but I'll answer Tim as well.

Tim:   If you threw in a few pictures for cosmetic purposes, and added some personal commentary to give it some semblance of human creativity, AND (this is a BIG 'and') if you only do it once a month, then I think it would be okay. My point here is that these folks are doing this incessantly, non-stop, routinely, without interruption or variety. If they were posting some other stuff, it wouldn't be such a big deal, but for crying out loud, it's the ONLY stuff they publish!

We are starting to crack down more firmly on this stuff, and on violations of the Community Guidelines/Terms of Service, in general. We don't announce to the public when we suspend someone from the Network, but there have been several instances lately where we were forced to take such measures.

Melina:  I sure love you. There, I said it!

TBoard:   Welcome to the Jungle!

Tom:   Thanks for the tip. Absolutely amazing!

Brett:   It's great to see you back in the blogging saddle again. You've been missed!

Ron if that's a comment signature, it's too big and obnoxious.  Might be okay for a blog signature, I suppose...but my personal opinion is - whoa nellie.  LOL

Lyn Sims,  I gave my example above to try to get exactly what you asked Rich for, a precedent so we all know what is condoned and what isn't.

Now we all know.  Just about anything goes here.  If my  example is acceptable, then it's just a matter of time before ActiveRain gets over run with such junk posts with self serving links.  Before you know it, Google will devalue all links coming from ActiveRain.  It will probably be considered a site that originates a lot of spammy outbound links and good content will go down with the spam.

There are many people with websites who could care less about creating good content here on ActiveRain and getting business from their ActiveRain blog.  The