User871_12_t Bryant Tutas Broker/REALTOR(R) Tutas Towne Realty, Inc
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OK, I put up a post yesterday,(you may need to read it first) sharing an Email I had received from a consumer asking me for my advice. As promised, I am going to post my response below. First, I want to thank everyone for their responses, by reading through the comments it should help Mr. Consumer make an informed decision on the way forward. The point for my previous post was twofold. First I wanted us to be able to learn from each other and secondly I wanted the consumer to get additional input to help him with his decision. After reading through the comments I think both of these objectives were achieved.

Several folks had responded that they would NOT give any advice since the consumer is already working with another REALTOR®. While I can appreciate this response, personally I disagree. The consumer contacted me and asked me for advice. I have no problem with giving it and do not feel I am interfering with the contractual arrangement, with his agent, in the least. Our REALTOR® Code of Ethics explicitly states that I can discuss business with any consumer as long as they are the ones initiating the contact.

Standard of Practice 16-13

  • All dealings concerning property exclusively listed, or with buyer/tenants who are subject to an exclusive agreement shall be carried on with the client's representative or broker, and not with the client, except with the consent of the client's representative or broker or except where such dealings are initiated by the client.

The client is free to seek advice from whomever they want. My opinion is, that if their REALTOR® was doing their job properly, then their Buyer/Seller would not be calling me for advice. My responsibility as a REALTOR® is to protect the public.

Anyway, I have known this particular consumer for several months and have had numerous email communications during his home buying endeavor. He trust me, I like him and want to make sure he is making good decisions.

So, not only was I not hesitant to give my opinion but I felt compelled to do so. Here is my response to his Email:

Good morning,

First, there's a saying that I use in my business "I never hold the buyer responsible for the incompetence of his agent" So, I guess in your case "Don't hold the seller responsible for the incompetence of his agent" If I didn't take this stance I would drive my self crazy.

OK, were these the only two issues of concern in the inspection? If so, at least it's a very sound property. At this point these are your options:

        ***Move forward and close

        ***Walk away

        ***Renegotiate the deal

In Florida, a room must have a closet to be called bedroom. If it doesn't, it's called a bonus room, den or office. Depending on the particular neighborhood, it may or may not affect value. The sq footage is still the same, it's just the room has a different function. Would having a closet in the room add value for YOU? If it would and it is something you want, then get estimates on what it would cost to remove the bookshelf and put in a closet and ask the seller for a cash concession. If the closet does not add value to YOU then even though the agent screwed up it really shouldn't be a deal breaker for you.

Concentrate on the deal not the agent.

I would have the same thought on the central vacuum system. Is this something that you had your heart set on or is it just something that was mentioned, so would have been nice to have, but now it's gone? Would you NOT have been interested in the house if you knew it didn't have a central vacuum? Is it REALLY a deal breaker? If not, then either forget about it or maybe ask the seller for a cash concession.

You have to ask yourself what are you trying to achieve. Are you more interested in finding a reason to back out, or a solution to move forward? The agent will be gone in a matter of weeks the house will be yours for a long time.

"Don't hold the seller responsible for the incompetence of his agent"

If this is the house you want, "Don't let the incompetence of the agent prevent you from getting it" If these issues are really more aggravating than deal breakers, then move forward, close on the property and enjoy your new home with your family. Stay focused on what you are trying to achieve.

Then after it's closed, fire off some letters to the agent's broker.

Now, if I were the listing broker, my response would have been, "I'm so sorry, I made a mistake. What can I do to make it right for you? What I can I do for you, to move forward with this deal?"

Mistakes happen, but for him to just blow it off and make light of it is very bad in my opinion. But, as hard as it is, you have to try a separate it from your goal. I hope this helps. END OF EMAIL.

That's it. My intent is to get the Buyer focused on the end result. I could tell by his Email that he is letting his emotions dictate a financial decision. The Buyer has already agreed to get his emotions out of the deal and appreciated me pointing this out to him. He is not in my State so getting his business was not my motivation. My motivation was to give an honest answer to a legitimate and honest concern. So what do you think? How did I do?

 

72 Comments on Broker Bryant's advice. Sound or foolish?

Reserved Parking For "The Lovely Wife"...TLW...ROAR!

Blog Boy. Wink. Wink. SVW (smiling very wide)

You did a great job helping this consumer put things in perspective. Focusing on the bigger picture is not a bad idea. You make me so proud of you :)

TLW...ROAR!

04/08/2007 02:32 PM by "The Lovely Wife"...Broker Bryant's Wife... (Co-Owner Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.)

Bryant - I was one of those that said - do not respond - however, I agree with everything you said and did.  I have been put in that position and it is difficult not to make it sound like you are "trashing" the other agent.  I applaud your response - professional, helpful and ethical IMHO

04/08/2007 02:55 PM by Central Oregon Real Estate | Thesa Chambers, Broker (RE/MAX Sunset Realty La Pine)

The offer that this buyer put in included a 4th bedroom and the central vaccum.  Perhaps the agent and/or agent's office should be held accountible with a contribution to remedy these concerns.  "Don't Hold The Seller accountible for the incompetence of his agent?"  Why not?  Doesn't the seller's agent represent the seller and isn't the seller respnsible for what he/she says and does?  Mistakes do happen it is taking responsibility for them that makes the difference. NO?

04/08/2007 02:55 PM by Miriam Bernstein,Westchester County Real Estate (RE/MAX Prime Properties)

Miriam, The phrase I use is:

"Don't hold the seller responsible for the incompetence of his agent"

This is actually geared more towards the emotional and incompetence side of the transaction. Being primarily a listing broker, as I am, I am constantly dealing with incompetent REALTORS(R) BUT, as hard as it is, I still must look at offers from buyers based on the buyer's qualifications not the incompetency of their agent. Same applies here. Just because the seller's agent has taken a lacsadaisical approach to the listing errors it doesn't mean the sellers have or will. Real estate deals are between buyers and sellers not REALTORS(R). But I do agree 100% if the REALTOR(R) made the mistake he should admit it and do what it takes to make it right.  Does this make sense?

Thesa, We do have to be very careful to never trash another agent. That's IS unethical. It's a fine line. I feel I can certainly point out someones error without trashing them. In this case it could very well be a perception issue(buyer) and may have been an honest mistake on the part of the agent. I don't know for sure. But either way it is a mistake and should be owned up to.

04/08/2007 03:43 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Bryant - I was in the give general advice and point them in the right direction. I understand you comment about focusing on the deal; however, I would be VERY concerned about the less obviously shortfalls in the property that might likewise be misrepresented.

I think you did the right thing and have demonstrated your professionalism.

Thank you for keeping it at a high level.

James

04/08/2007 03:48 PM by Chartwell Mortgage Corporation

Funny - after reading your response and going back to the original post this comes to mind.

4th Bedroom - is currently an office - no closet but does have the recess for the closet and the current owner has made shelves - so a closet will require removing some or all of the shelves and putting up doors - in reality the closet is there - just is not functioning as a closet

Central Vac - ok... a mistake - but in reality is it a deal breaker - most likely not -

Focusing on the buyers wants is the most important thing - not the mistake someone may have made or what one calls a cloest and another does not.  My home is a 4 bedroom home - and my office was a bedroom (the 4th one) I have removed my doors - put up shelves and left a small area for hanging a few things - but in general someone may see it as a bookshelf and a coat rack.

04/08/2007 03:56 PM by Central Oregon Real Estate | Thesa Chambers, Broker (RE/MAX Sunset Realty La Pine)

James, I had a little bit of an advantage as I had already seen a complete photo shoot of the property. It is an upper end pristine condition property. If the buyer wasn't a friend of mine I may not have given him as much advice. His Email does show though how a misrepresentation no matter how small and whether intentional or not can affect the consumer's confidence in the transaction. This was actually much more important than the 2 small issues. All deals have issues. This is a perfect example of why it is so important for the sellers to disclose everything no matter how small and why REALTORS(R) need to be very careful with checking and double checking their MLS info. Also, never make light of a buyer or seller's concerns. They may be no big deal to us but to them they can be major.

04/08/2007 04:02 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Thesa, BINGO!!!! The issue with the closet and the central vac are really not the issue. The issue is the buyer's perception of being hoodwinked. That is why my response to him is to place these 2 items back into the proper perspective. Thank you Thesa. That was truly the point of this exercise.

04/08/2007 04:05 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

You did an excellent job, Bryant.  Kudo's

04/08/2007 04:10 PM by Joan Snodgrass Tri-Lakes Realtors, Shell Knob, MO (Tri- Lakes REALTORS)

Bryant

First & foremost...

Happy Easter (and apparently B-Day too) to you & yours!

After having seen today's post, I immediately clicked on your initial link, directing me to yesterday's post, reading both in their entirety. Must admit that I have (obviously) now read your response to this buyer already. Before having done that though, I was leaning in the direction of agreeing w/2 comments in particular, including those by John Novak & James Holmes. I especially like James' "I am certain that you should offer more value than just sending her back to her agent without comment" remark, as I whole-heartedly agree that our membership with AR is - in a sense - our way of holding ourselves out as the "best of the best". As such, we really (w/in the scope of our Code of Ethics) can NOT simply brush the John Q. Public consumer aside w/a simple "talk w/your Realtor" response.

You managed to do just that when you highlighted SOP 16-13 at the head of today's post, not only providing an unforgettable education to each and every one of us - and FROM each and every one of us - but still further when you helped remind the buyer to "Concentrate on the deal, not the agent"!

My thanks goes out to each and every one of you who took part in this post! Very, very worthwhile reading.

Scott

04/08/2007 04:18 PM by Scott Mosher - Realtor, Lincoln NH (Northstar Realty Sales)

Excellent comment Scott, I too thought Jame's comment on the previous post was perfect. There are so many in our business that tread to lightly, always concerned about not stepping on each others toes. In my opinion, there are many in our business whose toes require a good old fashioned stomping. It is our responsibility as REALTORS(R) to protect and educate the consumer. I for one, take this very seriously and have stomped on more than a few toes in my 13 years. There's a huge difference between interfering and trashing TO pointing out and correcting. Hey, if I make a mistake, I welcome being corrected by my peers. It's how I learn.

04/08/2007 04:32 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Yes, Bryant that does make sense.  Real estate transactions should be between the Buyer's and the Sellers' but darn if brokers don't get in the way, all the time.  I suppose it is apparent from your response that you deal mostly with sellers.  Of course, what did the seller say about the two issues?  Did anyone ask him I don't recall reading his response anywhere.  Perhaps he did or would take responsibility of the misrepresentation of his agent.  I represent a lot of buyers and while I agree a good perspective is important and not getting hung up on stuff that is probably not important is a good idea, what did the seller say? (I'll go reread in case I missed).  Also could be said that the seller shouldn't get hung up and should remedy.  I don't know the buyer, the seller and what else was delt with in the course of the transaction it is a bit out of perspective.

04/08/2007 04:55 PM by Miriam Bernstein,Westchester County Real Estate (RE/MAX Prime Properties)

Bryant - I have too many years of contract law in my past - and when someone puts something like that in front of me - that natural reaction seems to kick in... what is funny - when the situation presents itself to me... I often react differently than I would advise others to do.... but mostly because I get so tired of hearing "But Thesa Said"  it seems to bite me in the XXX

04/08/2007 04:56 PM by Central Oregon Real Estate | Thesa Chambers, Broker (RE/MAX Sunset Realty La Pine)

Great post and follow thru Bryant. Especially on the part of responding to the buyer. Did you expect that to be such a part of the discussion. I didn't.

Utah law prohibits you from solicitating a buyer or seller if they are under contract with another agent. Nothing prohibits you from discussing real estate and even a particular transaction at their request. Can you imagine how frustrated someone would be if they were not allowed to go to aanother doctor for a second opinion?

Again, thanks for the great thought stream.

04/08/2007 05:17 PM by Keith Jeppson - Salt Lake City Real Estate (Keller Williams Utah Realty)

Thanks for throwing in the code of ethics reference.  There are a lot of sellers in my market calling the showing agents from the sign-in sheet, asking all sorts of questions.  After reading through these posts, I went back and re-read the code of ethics and feel much more comfortable handling those calls now.  I've been very cautious in the past about answering questions directly from someone else's seller.  It never sat right with me to have to tell a seller to go talk to their (terrible but I can't tell you that) agent. 

04/08/2007 05:19 PM by a b (c)

Love Keith's likening someone's desire to seek a 2nd opinion from a doctor to this whole line of thinking!

Scott

04/08/2007 05:28 PM by Scott Mosher - Realtor, Lincoln NH (Northstar Realty Sales)

Rock and ROLL!  You're email back to the person was RIGHT ON!  One of my pet peeves in this business is when agents get all excited and transfer that excitement to the buyer.  I've had numerous transactions where the other agent got his or her panties all up in a bunch over something and that in turn got the buyer all upset.

You advice to that buyer was calm, it gave him/her all of their options and it didn't throw gasoline onto the fire!

 

Way to go!

R.B. "Bob" Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

 

04/08/2007 05:56 PM by R.B. "Bob" Mitchell

Hi Joan, Thanks for visiting.

Miriam, I don't know what the seller said or even if they are aware of the issues. I should have some additional info tomorrow. As you can see my response was really geared more towards redirecting the buyer's thoughts. If the buyer does choose to walk from the deal it should be for the right reasons. I've had many a deal almost fall through over a minor issue because folks are not staying focused.    

Thesa, I probably give a lot more opinions than I should. I just can't help myself:)

Keith, I was kind of expecting it. I hear it all the time. I have sellers call me quite frequently, in my market, that are currently listed with another REALTOR(R) and I always take the time to answer their questions. Heck I take post dated listing agreements.  As you know, there is nothing unethical or illegal about it. BUT I will not interfere in their contractual agreement or suggest they fire their REALTOR(R).

Kelly, Glad this helped. We are in the business of Real Estate. Answering questions is part of what we do. Just respect their contract and the their agent.

Our Code of Ethics is not meant to restrict aggressive, fair and honest business practices.  

04/08/2007 05:58 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Almost forgot. I do want to point out that if a REALTOR(R) or Broker chooses not to assist or answer questions for a consumer who has an agent, that is their choice to make. There is nothing wrong with that. If you are working under a Broker they may very well have an office policy that prohibits this. So check with your Broker. 

I am the Broker and my choice is to talk RE with anyone that wants to listen, whether they are represented or not.

04/08/2007 06:09 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

I also like the comment that equated the email to you to being a second opinion from a doctor.  Yeah, it can be irritating to have some agent who doesn't know the deal or the people involved sticking their nose into your transaction, but if you've done your job right and in a professional manner, you shouldn't have anything to hide.

R.B. "Bob" Mitchell

ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc. 

04/08/2007 06:11 PM by ValueList Real Estate Services, Inc.

Bob, my thoughts exactly. I've sold hundreds of houses and have never had a seller call someone for a second opinion. Actually I guess I don't know that for sure, but if they did, they never had a reason to tell me about it or suggest I do something differently. My response to the buyer, in this email, may actually help get the transaction closed. Hey wonder if the agents are members of AR?

04/08/2007 06:29 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Ok BB - I'm going to disagree.  I suspect others do too but are afraid to tell you because it might ruffle your feathers.  I happen to know you are a great guy and we can agree to disagree and you won't ruffle.

I still like my answer better. :-)  And I would butt out!  And I just couldn't go out there on record (on the internet) as having called the seller's agent incompetent.  You are only hearing one side of the story.

04/08/2007 06:32 PM by Linda Davis (RE/MAX Realty Group)

Broker Bryant,

While you have the (questionable- why didn't this person use you to begin with) ability to respond to this buyer's questions, what I would ask you (BEFORE YOU RESPOND TO THE BUYER) is:  DID YOU GET THE OTHER SIDE, IN IT'S ENTIRETY?   Until you make the readership aware of the response, you have one side only.  If you did contact the offending broker, as you ethically should do, what was their position?

If you did NOT contact the other side, then you are just part of a "he said, she said" mess, with no authority whatsoever to make a call one way or the other.

04/08/2007 06:36 PM by Options Realty

We shall await tomorrow and more info.  Of course, redirecting the buyer might not have been necessary depending on the seller's response.

04/08/2007 06:48 PM by Miriam Bernstein,Westchester County Real Estate (RE/MAX Prime Properties)

Broker Bryant, I agree with you, do not let the broker, ruin the deal if this is indeed the home you really want.  Work through the issues.  If not, walk.  Great post in any case.

04/08/2007 06:49 PM by Bob Sloop, Consultant, Indianapolis, IN (RS Mortgage Consulting)

Linda, If everyone agreed with me I would be very concerned:) My incompetence statement probably sounds harsher than I meant it. It's actually more of a general statement to try and get the buyer to concentrate on what is important to him not whether or not the agent made a mistake. The response I got back form the buyer actually confirmed that my approach worked he is now focused on the house not the agents. So I guess your answer is...............my advice is foolish.:)

Laurie, This person couldn't use me if he wanted to as I am 5 States away. Why should I contact the Broker? I am not involved in the transaction at all. This particular buyer happens to be a friend of mine and was asking my advice, so I gave it.  I am not in anyway giving my opinion of what he should do. BUT I did successfully redirected his decision process from being emotional to being focused on what he is trying to achieve. The first post was shared to show how fragile a relationship can be with our sellers and buyers and how their perception of what is happening can make or break a deal. It doesn't matter what the facts are or what the other side of the story is. What matters is the buyer's perception of what's happening, whether right or wrong. I'm not trying to lay blame or solve the problem. The buyer has stated to me that he really likes this house and my only goal was to get him focused on the deal not the agents or the very minor(to me, not him) issues. The real issue is his level of trust NOT the closet and vacuum. Does this make sense?

04/08/2007 07:14 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

COMMUNITY:  This is the face and attitude at the other side of the table, when you've listed a house, made a MINOR error with the bedroom (in my neck of the woods, a window for egress qualifies as use for a bedroom) and the central vac MAY be there (we don't know- got one side only) when things go awry. 

  You may not like that I charge less for comparable services (now don't you hate me?) but  I can assure you, my job is NOT TO UNDERMINE YOU with nonsense.    What I cannot understand is the FACE AT THE OTHER SIDE OF OUR LISTING'S TABLE, via internet, discouraging their choice of agent, when no conversation could be less appropriate?  Now THAT is cheap, and undermines the whole industry by creating unCONFIRMED doubt.

04/08/2007 07:15 PM by Options Realty

<<This particular buyer happens to be a friend of mine and was asking my advice, so I gave it. >>

My answer would have been totally different if I knew this.  I thought he was a stranger in your own market. Can we start over?  I'd much rather agree with you.

04/08/2007 07:22 PM by Linda Davis (RE/MAX Realty Group)

Laurie, What the heck are you talking about? You lost me. Are you saying that me giving advice to a friend and sharing it in an anonymous fashion on a RE network is somehow undermining YOU and your business model?

04/08/2007 07:24 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

NOT EVEN CLOSE- you're shifting.  What I'm saying is, with clarity, you should not be providing advice to a buyer- a buyer that is not YOURS, friend or not, without checking the validity of the transaction.  This requires investigation into the other side, in order to provide your "friend" with sound advice.  That's all I was stating, Broker Bryant.

04/08/2007 07:28 PM by Options Realty

Linda, Sorry. I gave that info in the comment section of my last post. Too late can't change now:)

04/08/2007 07:29 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Broker Bryant,

I liked how you handled it.  I guess I didn't catch in the first post that this was a friend asking for advice.  I guess I would be inclinded to give some guidance to a friend.  Directing the buyer's attention on what they wanted as the end result helps to redirect the attention of being "wronged" to a more positive, results driven mind set.  Thanks for sharing!

04/08/2007 07:47 PM by Cynthia Sloop (Community Property Manager)

OK thanks Laurie, Got you. Don't agree but got you. If it helps you, I don't work with buyers, ever. I am 100% a listing broker. My only advice to the buyer is to focus on the deal not the agents. I honestly do not believe I need any additional information to give that advice. I am not telling him what to do. Laurie, we do not have to agree. Trust me I am not fragile and have been wrong many times in my life. I do however love a good debate or conversation. It's how I learn. Your input IS appreciated.

04/08/2007 07:50 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Thank you, as is your post.

04/08/2007 07:52 PM by Options Realty

Broker Bryant,

I happen to agree with you....sound advice all around to take the emotion and the drama out of the equation and focus on the objective.  Well said. I hope the buyer gets this resolved and can enjoy his new home.

Heather

04/08/2007 08:05 PM by Heather Elias (Century 21 Redwood Realty)

I'm not reading any of the previous comments because I don't want it to sway my opinion.  I think you did the right thing.  When a buyer finally finds the house that meets their needs enough to write an offer, they need to think pragmatically, not emotionally about all the little things that arise during escrow.  Getting the end result they desire--if possibe--should be the issue.

Fran

04/08/2007 08:15 PM by Fran Gatti - Realtor® Crescent City CA Real Estate (RE/MAX Coastal Redwoods)

BB I concur! Actually I think what I said yesterday is basically the same thing. Either move on or make a deal.

04/08/2007 08:32 PM by Danny Smith (DISCOVER TEXAS HOMES)

Interesting comments and opinions. 

BB, I agree with your response... friend or not.   We need to refocus buyers on the transaction and take the emotion out.  You did that very, very well!

04/08/2007 09:25 PM by Pasadena CA Real Estate - Irina Netchaev (Keller Williams International Realty)

In my response to the first message I did not mention not answering as some did, because the buyer contacted you.

I like your response.  If I represented the buyer as I did recently on a similar deal.  I got the selling agent and their broker to cut checks to my client at closing for misrepresentations.  After closing another gem showed up and I went back to the agent and his broker for another check.

This one also had an extra room listed. I caught that up front and we considered that before making our offer.

04/09/2007 12:27 AM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)

Hi Broker Bryant, Thank you for an excellent lesson.  Have you done this before, will you do it again?  Real life examples can really help new agents.  Thanks, Doreen

04/09/2007 12:51 AM by Phoenix Arizona Real Estate ~ Doreen McPherson (Keller Williams Arizona Realty ~ Scottsdale ~ Tempe)

CBB: Your wisdom, for such a young fella, continues to amaze me;-).

Jay

04/09/2007 06:03 AM by Jay Merton & Medford Ambrose, the Codgers (Retired Handymen)

Blog Boy...(Broker Bryant)

"I am not fragile and have been wrong many times in my life."...

Well that was a bad move. You told me you have only been wrong ONCE :)

TLW...ROAR!

04/09/2007 07:26 AM by "The Lovely Wife"...Broker Bryant's Wife... (Co-Owner Tutas Towne Realty, Inc.)

Excellent advise. As always!  The focus is on what the buyer really wants to do- I think you did an excellent job is redirecting the focus while dealing with the issues the buyer had. His perpective of how the agent was failing to deal with "mistakes" no doubt made him irate and uncomfortable. Good job.

04/09/2007 08:06 AM by Allison Stewart REALTOR ®St. Cloud Florida (Florida Pines Realty, Inc)

I should get a gold star for keeping my mouth shut for so long....something I don't do very well. :o) In case anyone hasn't guessed who the mystery buyer is.....it's me.

For the sake of the conversation, I purposely did post any comments, but now I feel it's appropriate to share my thoughts; both about BB and the assorted opinions expressed.

First of all, I believe it's a great conversation because it addresses the real world of real estate. This isn't some hypothetical situation but a deal in progress. BB thought it would be of value to the AR community and I completely agree with him. No names are used, no agent is being trashed, no ethics are being breached.

To be fair, I was pretty emotional when I shot off the email to BB. I was frustrated, concerned, confused, and didn't quite know what to do or where to turn. BB's response is exactly as he posted......it's about the house, the house, the house, and the house......and he's RIGHT. If the real estate industry ever gets to the point where a consumer cannot ask someone they trust and is in the business, for general advice or assistance, it's doomed, and deservedly so. BB did not trash anyone, did not get involved in the deal, and was simply kind enough to remind me of my options and to focus on what's important.

I realize how difficult it is for anyone reading the email to fully understand the dynamics at work and have taken that into consideration as I weighed the "advice" posters have offered.

A few posts stand out in my mind. One in particular is from James Holmes. I especially enjoyed his comment "If you wrote a book aimed to help the consumer make good choices or solve problems mid-stream, would you put a requirement on the front cover that says "If you already have an agent - DO NOT READ THIS BOOK." I do not think so, and by holding ourselves out in a public forum we should likewise return a question with an answer." I hope he returns to BB's Blog and accepts my sincere thanks and appreciation.

Some have dismissed my concerns and a few consider them "minor". To those who do, when it's YOU writing the check, you can certainly label concerns as you see fit. However, last time I looked, I am the one with the checkbook in this deal and will consider "major" what is major to ME.  Of all the comments and opinions, the dismissal of legitimate concerns was most troubling.  I got the distinct impression they consider anything that doesn't move the deal forward....trivial.

Some of the listing discrepancies were well known to both me and my agent. In fact, we laughed about the "1.5 story" description.....maybe the extra story is the attic. :o)  Another item was the "beautiful hardwood floors"....that don't exist. We laughed about maybe that meant "hardwood carpet". People make mistakes; honest mistakes, and are easily corrected. However, when I, as a buyer, begin to see a pattern, I get concerned. James Holmes made that exact comment. What ELSE don't I know?

I'd like to address those who feel I should simply dismiss the "errors" rather than file a complaint. I can honestly say I don't know what action, if any, I will take in that arena, but would like to quote a portion of the NAR ethics:

Article 2

Realtors® shall avoid exaggeration, misrepresentation, or concealment of pertinent facts relating to the property or the transaction.

Now, is not listing multiple features that do NOT exist, at the very least, exaggeration? Right now, I'm giving the listing agent the benefit of the doubt. I do believe the seller has absolutely nothing to do with these "errors" because I had a question about an item on the seller's disclosure and he went WAY out of his way NOT to misrepresent something.

The bottom line is BB helped me get back on track and, once again, I am in his debt. I've got 10 days to either walk away, accept the deal, or renegotiate. I'll make up my mind over the next day or so and move forward, one way or another.

Thanks to all who made the conversation possible.

Sincerely,

The Drama Llama  (just kidding, I thought that comment was pretty funny!)

04/09/2007 08:51 AM by Stan

Excellent Stan!! I was going to send you an email this morning to ask you to chime in. You beat me to the punch. It was an excellent exercise! And the fact that it's a real life example made it even more so. Thanks Stan. This entire discussion shows the true value of ActiveRain. Being able to discuss these issues from all points of view is really helpful.

04/09/2007 08:58 AM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Stan,

Understandable that your concerns about the way the listing agent represented the property should be addressed; the question being whether they should be addressed in the context of the seller compensating for the mistake, or the agent being called to task on it. Certainly the errors are not minor concerns at all, if they affect your decision on whether to buy the house! From an ethical standpoint, I'm not sure the listing agent concealed pertinent facts or wrote the listing up that way with malicious intent (deliberately to mislead potential purchasers). That would be my standard in considering the errors worthy of submitting a complaint to the local Board of Realtors. And she should acknowledge the mistakes and correct them on the listing, at the least. I don't remember if you said her broker had been contacted to point those errors out, but if not that should definitely be done.

I wholeheartedly apologize for the drama llama...it's a catchphrase I use as my way of helping my clients stay focused, but probably came across the wrong way when being typed and not said with a huge smile...that has been bothering me since I wrote it. Best wishes to you as you find your new home, whether it is this one or you find a different one!

Sincerely,

Heather

04/09/2007 11:29 AM by Heather Elias (Century 21 Redwood Realty)

Bryant, was your friend an outbound referral? (sorry if I missed that disclosure)

04/09/2007 11:52 AM by Bernie Krebs CRS, GRI (REALTEAM)

awesome awesome advice!  I really like the idea of "concentrate on the deal not the agent"

04/09/2007 11:52 AM by Renee Burrows - Las Vegas NV. ASK ABOUT -1st Time Buyer Down Payment Assistance! (Nevada Realty Solutions - Realtor - Estate - Probate - REO)

I was one who also said I would not interfere.  On the other hand....I also have had people call and tell me flat out they're not happy with their (buyer's) agent (not in contract yet though) and I sure help them with the condition they let the agent know they will be working with someone else.  I also make sure they have no agreement. 

As usual, you have good answers and advise.  Thanks!

04/09/2007 12:08 PM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), e-PRO HAWAII Relocations & HAWAII Real Estate (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)

Ethical to the end...and a resource within the AR community and clearly outside of it as well.  kudoes (spelling?) to you Bryant.

 

04/09/2007 12:30 PM by David Smith (Fillmore Realty)

Excellent points Bryant. Buying is such an emotional process and buyers are so ready to jump at the thought that someone is trying to take advantage of them. The listing agent will be long gone after the sale. So it comes down to - how much to you want the house?  You did the right thing. Most time people are looking for an opinion from an expert in the field with no vetted interest.

Here in VA the definition of a bedroom has more to do with fire hazards. Can a fully equipped fireman get through the window or get easy access? That's our rule of thumb here. (there is also a square footage requirement)  Recently, I showed a one bedroom w/den condo where the den had a closet, and full bathroom- so the agent listed it as a 2 bedroom. We didn't realize it until we got a floor plan from the builder. It was a den because it didn't have a window. This couple needed a two bedroom- but they went ahead with the sale anyway.   

We also have a townhouse/condo community that has a model which was sold by the builder 30 yrs ago as a one bedroom- but agents are always putting it on as a two bedroom because it has a finished basement with full bath, den and family room. closets/storage room. Owners use one of the downstairs rooms as a bedroom all the time. But legally it's still a one bedroom.  There was a case two years ago where the buyer find out this model wasn't a legal two bedroom and sued the orginal listing agent and WON.

What are the chances that this buyer would of found this house if he was looking for a 5 bedroom and it was only listed as a 4 bedroom? While I don't know the agent's motivation for listing it as a 5 bedroom, most agents are smarter than most people give them credit for.

04/09/2007 01:16 PM by Mary De Luca (Long & Foster)

Heather -- No apologies necessary.....I love the expression.  I'm gonna "steal" it for later use.  ;o)

If AR ever gets to the point where people cannot let their guard down and speak plainly, openly, and honestly; it will be a lesser place for it.  We all have our "business face" we put on in the morning to do our jobs, but this should be a more relaxed atmosphere.  In my years of business, little gets done when everyone and everything is scripted and a lot gets accomplished when everyone pours a cup of coffee, takes off the tie, and communicates.

Bernie -- I "met" BB here on AR.  We've struck up a friendship through email and participation on his blog.  I full well intended not using a buyer's agent, but family dynamics and circumstances dictated otherwise.  All in all, I'm not disappointed with my agent.  While I sounded pretty hard on them in the email, it was a moment of high emotion.  There are things I wish they were stronger at......but they probably feel the same way about me.  :o)  When the deal started getting squirrely, the first thing I thought was who knows more than I do, someone I trust, and I need some help figuring out what's going on.....so I sent BB an email.  I felt it best to seek counsel from someone completely OUTSIDE the deal.  As we say in the South....someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight.  

To all -- I have no problem with someone making a simple error in a listing and, in my comments, we made a joke of a few.  However, it raises a concern when the list continues to grow AND the errors have not yet been corrected after being brought to their attention.  THAT concerns me......

Was it done to mislead?.....I cannot believe it was.  NOBODY is THAT stupid!....even me.  One of my biggest frustrations during my search was exaggerations in descriptions.  I can't count how many "level lots" I wasted my time looking at which were so sloped, you'd roll to the end of the property before you could stop your momentum.  RealtorSpeak using "award winning schools", "much sought after", "must see", "won't last long" are so abused it's not funny anymore; but goes with the territory of agents fluffing up the listing to generate interest.

I kind of know the difference between a broker and an agent; BB is both if I'm not mistaken.  We, of the uneducated masses don't make that distinction.  They are all real estate agents and who cares whether they are a broker or not.  I know there is.....but nobody on the consumer side really cares or gives it a second thought.

04/09/2007 01:16 PM by Stan

Maryland license law states that "without a written buyer agency agreement" an agent cannot evaluate, negotiate or prepare contracts for a buyer. 

I may discuss real estate in general with prospective buyer/clients, but never with advice to specific contract, negotiation or evaluation matters including inspections, property condition, etc.  One of the reasons I got rid of my agents was to reduce risk.  Giving advice really stakes one out, see Centennial, by James Michener. 

One of the problems with giving advice to non-clients is that, most of the advice given so freely is not always good advice.  If a buyer or seller is unhappy with the result of their transaction, any outside advice is going to sound good to them.  Therefore, whether the buyer is really being abused or not, outside advice, even bad advice will be considered.  That's the risk. 

While I am 100% sure that Broker Bryant's advice was beneficial to the buyer, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to get involved in another brokerage relationship, even if the intent of the advice is helpful, not to interfere with representation, or anything harmful to the buyer. 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

04/09/2007 02:01 PM by Lenn Harley Homefinders.com MD & VA Real Estate

Bryant, I always enjoy reading your posts. I was very curious to see how you handled it after reading the first post. I didn't know what the right thing to do was. After reading your response, I now know. Thanks for sharing useful, up-to-date, likely-to-encounter scenarios with us. I like reading your posts because I usually learn something good.

04/09/2007 03:13 PM by John Evarts (Classic Property Management of Santa Clarita)

NOW WE'VE GOT IT- 

Words directly from the buyer.  While lacking in a response from the listing agent, it provides credibility to the whole debacle.  My point, to ignore if you like, is to try, in every circumstance to have full knowledge from both sides before TAKING one.  Thanks for the comment!

04/09/2007 03:39 PM by laurie mindnich

I think you gave great advice. It's hard to separate the emotions from the actual business transaction.

04/09/2007 04:11 PM by Christy Powers - Pooler, Savannah Real Estate Agent (Keller Williams Coastal Area Partners)

Hey Stan, This is for you.

Your first gold star!!!!

04/09/2007 04:39 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Bryant, your advice to the client is sound, though I thought a bit harshly worded:  I would have said "ommissions of" rather than "incompetence of" in describing the other agent's actions.  I just think that you may be crossing the line into the murky waters of libel by using language like that, especially when the facts of the scenario are coming to you in this manner, rather than first-hand.  Hearsay is what it might be called in court.  To call someone incompetent based on hearsay is a bit harsh...that's all I am really saying.  If the end result is that the consumer focussed on their goal, and went forward despite the emotional roller coaster they have been through, then the agent certainly was not wronged in the process.  In fact you help them out.

04/09/2007 06:41 PM by Rich Schiffer, REALTOR, e-PRO (Weichert, Realtors)

I made a comment yesterday quite similar to your email.  And I agree with you correct assessment about emotions.  I just got off the phone with a client regarding an inspection notice.  Buyer is upset over something very minimal.  Trying to bring her down was difficult.  The house is a great house and for its age minimal problems.

Like I was taught years ago in Real Estate you don't make or break deals over thousands of dollars.  You make or break deals over hundreds of dollars.  I have found that to be true.  That is when the emotions step in.

I am glad your friend has someone he can count on for down home honest advise.

04/09/2007 06:45 PM by Paula Wyatt (Re/Max Advantage)

Rich, I was trying to make a point to the buyer. If I hadn't known the buyer for quite a while and had not been aware of his constant struggles with trying to purchase a home I may not have phrased it as I did. The post IS anonymous though. No names or even the State where the deal is in has been mentioned. So libel is really not a possibility. I'm not talking about a particular agent I'm addressing the mid set of the buyer. Does that make sense? If a REALTOR(R) reads it and sees himself in this post, well that's a good thing in my opinion. I don't work for REALTORS(R) I work for the consumers. My intent with this Email was actually to just refocus the buyer on the house not the agent. You are right though I probably helped this transaction move towards closing. We'll see. I appreciate you taking the time to read and comment. I'll be the first to admit I do get carried away sometimes. My frankness, so far, has never got me into any trouble but it certainly may some day. But hey I got to be me:)

Paula, I have had deals kick over a $100 repair! We have to keep folks focused. That's why they are paying us.

04/09/2007 07:33 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

Sorry I missed the event, I was in Panama City Beach, but we left the day of the event and had a long drive back to MI

04/09/2007 07:59 PM by Missy Caulk-Ann Arbor- Realtor(R)- Ann Arbor Real Estate (Keller Williams-Ann Arbor)

Whoa-what a discourse I've missed!  I, for one, am glad to hear that Stan is buying a home after stalking BB's blog for so long.  ;) 

Suppose I'd concur that the response was appropriate in that it was focused on the house-and the question that we all need to ask often-'do you want the house or not?'  Doesn't seem to me that it's anywhere close to being specific to any particular market-rather is a situation common to real estate.  I'd say that based on what I've read, if I were the consumer, I'd consider filing a complaint for puffery after it's all said and done.  I mean, if it were one mistake or even two, I could consider it to be erroneous...but several?  My grandma called that lying.  Which isn't fair to the sellers OR to the buyers. 

Stan, that was some money well spent on that inspection, wouldn't you say?