Is anything wrong with Liberalism?

Stewart, I think that if you are smart enough to understand Mike's comments you wouldn't want to be labelled "Liberal." As I see it it is a contest between the thinkers and the non-thinkers. It is your choice.

Bill Roberts

Richard Iarossi wrote:  Stewart, Even Liberals no longer call themselves Liberals, they call themselves Progressives. I have to ask myself the question, "what are they running away from?"

I cannot confirm the validity of this statement, but if it's true, I'd be quite delighted.  The American definition of liberal is a corruption of "Liberalism" (as Mike Saunders and I touched upon last week).  Let followers of the American version call themselves Progressive and let Liberals be real Liberals.

Stewart I am honored. And thank you for finally answering my question. That's is pretty cool. From what I have read you are a fairly respected blogger. I am just getting into it. It was frustrating that no one could give me any reasons why they are a Liberal. They can give me reasons why they hate Bush,McCain, or Palin like reciting the ABC's, but no one knew why they are a Liberal.

Yes I am a conservative/libertarian and damn proud of it. I brought people into the Libertarian Michael Badnarik campaign 4 years ago and I brought people to the Ron Paul campaign this past year. Being a conservative/libertarian is my core being, it's how I make decisions, and it's how I view the world. I have a very high conversion ratio once I can sit and talk to someone about the importance of self reliance, personal responsibility, liberty, freedom, basic economics and how government does not know best.

I can't wait until Bush is gone either and I don't love McCain. I really don't like the Republicans stance on the war, but I don't like the Democrats stance on most everything else.

I agree with Mike. Nicholas, and Leslie. That Wikipedia definition is not the modern day Liberal. They are describing a Libertarian. There is a big difference. I challenge you to something. Take the worlds smallest political quiz. Here's the link http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html  If you truly believe the principals in that Wikipedia defintion, then you are not a Liberal.

May I make an observation without sounding like an a%%? If someone asked me to tell them why I am a libertarian, we better get a 12 pack and have a few hours. And I wouldn't need a Wikipedia look up. That's not meant as an insult or a rip. But I am am what I am, I think how I think, and that hapens to be called Libertarian/Conservative. I see it as common sense.

I'll say one more thing. The Dems say Bush has failed policies, the Republicans say the Dems have failed policies. I'm in the camp that says "It's not the policies, it's the fact that government is too big in the first place"

I look forward to more discussions.

Carl

Wow Stewart looks like the bullies like to come on your blog and rant and rave. What a ridiculous display of immaturity. I find it an exercise in futility that you try to reason with the unreasonable......a true liberal trait. I myself am guilty of it, but it seems you are wasting your breath with some of these people. Anyone that would try to tell you that you don't know your own mind isn't really worth the effort. Especially with those who seem to think they know everything. I applaud your resilience though.  I have been lucky. My friends that are Republican, Democrat, liberal, or Independent are evolved. I am a liberal and proud of it. :)

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington

But alas I did not answer your question. I am tired so I will just start the ball rolling. Your question was "Who can not accept Liberalism and why"

1) Liberals want to TAKE the profits of Oil companies and MAKE them invest in alternative energies. That is not a free market. Would you force Starbucks to take some of their obscene profits and invest in beer as an alternative beverage. Oil companies make 8.5% margins and do us a great service. They get oil out of the ground so we can use it in gas, cosmetics, plastics and a million other things. They sell alot of oil and make alot of money. Why do Liberals want to punish them. The government takes an obscene amount of money from the Oil compnaies in taxes. You want to talk about windfall profits, the government IS the definition of windfall. They do nothing, and make obscene amounts of money.

2) Universal healthcare. Liberals want it. That's not a free market. That's a government monopoly. They really honestly think they can run health care. No thanks. If you truly believed in the free market. We would have less regulations and more Doctors. That would create competition and prices would go down. It works in every other field or business. Why do Liberal think it won't work in healthcare. In my opinion the argument should be more on how we can get health care costs down, NOT on how we can insure everyone. If you give stuff away for free people use more than they need and you wind up with shortages.

3) Above you mentioned the Bill of Rights. I love mine too. So why do the Liberals attack the 2nd amendment? In my opinion without the 2nd you will eventually lose all the others.  

I'll do more later.

Hey Carl. First off let me say.....whats up with the generalizations? Really?? Seriously?? Come on. :)

First off I am not against the 2nd Amendment and most liberals I know aren't either. I grew up in a small Missouri town where if they couldn't hunt and kill animals their families would starve. Thats the reality for a lot of families. I think a lot of liberals are against guns because of the amount of violence in this country. They think if we get rid of guns that will solve the problem. I think they are wrong. I think so many people feel helpless (I know I do) with the murder rate in this country and they just don't know how to stop it. I could go on about the first two points you brin up, but I don't want to hijack Stewarts blog. Sorry Stewart!!

Pamela, we all generalize. You do too. If I say I am a conservative/libertarian you would immediately form some opinions. Some are probably correct, some probably are not.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Stewart read my blog about bowhunting and asking what's good about Liberalism, and he generalized that I was a conservative. He was right. If I grew up in Missouri apparently he may have been wrong.

I live in the suburbs of Chicago. The Liberals I know HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE guns. In their eyes the only people that should have guns are police and military (I shoot with Policemen, trust me many of them are not very good shots) . They also do not like hunting at all. So I admit I generalized with what I know.

How about my other two points?

I'll write a few more after work.

Carl do not tell me what I do or don't do. You have no idea about the inner workings of my mind and to suggest you do is silly. Some opinions sure, but generalizations are bad. Period. I was born in San Francisco, but grew up in small town Missouri. About half those people are Republican and the other half Democrat or Independent. That's a rough guess on my part. Heres the thing. I would love to continue this conversation, but i will not hijack Stewarts blog. Maybe we could continue this on yours?? Or maybe Stewart doesn't mind. I don't know.

Carl - You just limited yourself to the suburbs of Chicago.  I haven't lived there in 30 years so I can't speak to that area, but what I can say is that I know a good number of liberals (American version) who do not HATE5 guns.  Most that I know want gun control, but that's not the same as banning guns.  Personally, I want to see mandatory background checks and the banning of certain types of weapons.  Sorry, but no one I know needs a FA TEC-9 or anything remotely close.

OK, Pamela. You may or may not generalize. I will not put words in your mouth anymore. I am happy I generalize. Otherwise everytime I do something it would be like the first time I did it.

Let's do this. Let's find some real life stuff we agree on. That sounds more fun.  The libertarian in me is liberal on many social issues, but conservative on economic ones. If we need to start a new blog, that's cool. Here's a couple things I'll throw out there.

1) Legalization of marijuana

2) Price controls. (ie Housing, or gas after a natural disaster)

3) Government (I mean taxpayer) funding on alternative energy.

Tchaka. Bring some of your friends to Illinois please.

I'm open to discussing anything .

Carl,

They Legalized Marijuna in Denver

Tchaka, Carl & Pamela - the 2nd ammendment became a non-issue for democrats (ok, not all democrats are liberal and not all liberals are democrats) once they found that they couldn't win with a party stance against it.

Based upon friends in 8 states I can make this observation: the majority of liberals that I know are against private owner ship of guns. The majority of conservatives are pro private ownership of guns. However, in certain states, or parts of states, the majority of both are pro-private ownership of guns. While in others the majority of both are anti-private ownership of guns.

Generally speaking, those in more rural areas tend towards pro, those in dense urban areas tend towards con.

However, I fully expect that once there is a liberal majority on the supreme court there will be a revisiting of the recent decision of the supreme court on gun ownership.

Yeah I heard that Jane. Has it led to riots in the streets and teenagers going on killing sprees?

It seems ridiculous to me to outlaw a plant. You can give 8 year olds, man made Ridlin, Prozac and all kinds of garbage, but a plant that God put on this earth is evil.

I have a crazy theory. God put marijuana on the earth to help people. Help them cope with stress, help them sleep, help them have an appetite, help them not feel nauseas if they are sick, help them relax. All you need to do it pick some and smoke it. Natures cure for alot of what ails us. But we make it a crime.

Plus, think of the cost of housing all the non violent drug offenders and the enormous amount of money the the WAR ON DRUGS has cost. Yet my niece says it's super easy to score weed in high school. Much easier than getting alcohol. I guess the WAR ON DRUGS hasn't worked out to well.

Pamela or Stewart, do you have any opinions on this one? And no, I don't personnally smoke it, and I don't think I would if it was legal either. It seems to fit your Wikipedia definition.

This further shows the good sense and logic of Liberalism.

-- Finally, Cultural Liberalism: "focuses on the rights of individuals pertaining to conscience and lifestyle, including such issues as sexual freedom, religious freedom, cognitive freedom, and protection from government intrusion into private life."

Hey everyone. I felt bad about taking over Stewarts blog so I copied and pasted over on the post that Carl did that inspired this one. And I answered Carls questions over there. :)

Sorry Stewart. You have your post back.