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We Are All Joe the Plumber

After watching the debate tonight, I must say that the real winner in this debate was Joe the Plumber and guys like him. Joe Wurzelbacher (AKA Joe the Plumber) is a regular, hard working guy who is looking forward to purchasing the company he works for someday. He confronted Barak Obama and posed the simple question "so you're going to raise my taxes" and Obama's response has started a firestorm.

We are all Joe the Plumber. I work 6, most of the time 7 days a week 10 -14 hours a day to provide a better life for my family. We just hired a home search concierge to enhance our client's experience and I look forward to growing our business with even more additions. What Senator Obama doesn't understand is that by raising Joe's taxes and by that all of our taxes, he will cost American's more jobs than his tax increase will benefit.

Let's take Joe' Wurzelbacher's business for an example. Here's all the people who rely on Joe the Plumber being successful today:

Joe - Plumber: 1 man
Joe needs tools and equipment: 5 people at the plumbing supply house
Joe the Plumber's parts are manufactured somewhere - 5-25 people needed for this
Joe sometimes goes to home depot or lowes: 3 people in direct contact: 50-100 store employees
Joe drives a van: 1 sales man, 1 manager, 1 service tech for repairs, 25 people at the factory that makes vans
Joe needs gas for his van: 1 man at the gas station, 1 manager
Joe needs an assistant to schedule appointments: 1 full time worker
Joe needs an accountant: 1 accountant
Joe uses a cell phone: 1 salesman, 1 billing manager, 1 service tech to keep the service up, 1 tech support for when Joe's phone only calls Russia
Joe needs insurance: 1 insurance agent - 5 people who work for the company the insurance is sold to
Joe advertises that he's the best Joe the Plumber in town: 1 sales rep, 1 graphic designer, 5 printers, 1 distributor
Joe the plumber goes through training and even hires apprentices - 1-3 people

and that's the beginning of a 1 man business. Raise Joe's taxes and see where the cut's will start. Think about how many people are employeed because you sell real estate: advertisers, lawmakers, lawyers, inspectors, builders, lenders, insurance, service, sales, assistants, on and on.

The other night I watched Frontline, which featured the bios of the candidates as told by their closests advisors. Obama's surrogates mentioned the reason he became a community organizer is that he saw the government as a force to do all good things. It's this perspective that would lead him to say, during a time of economic uncertainty, those who are working hard for a brighter future will pay more because its their duty...its their right How short sided.

Posted by Jonathan Osman - Charlotte / Matthews NC on 10/15/2008 10:10 PM

Comments (53)

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53 Comments on We Are All Joe the Plumber

OCT

2008

I was waiting to see who would be the first to write about the debate tonight. You are the first I came across.

A person works hard and is inspired to maintain or increase production for one reason - reward. Take away or suppress that reward through excessive taxes and you depress the incentive of that worker. Bottom line is we don't need more taxes to boost our economy.

Jonathan ~

Congratulations this post is now featured in the Silent Majority Group of Active Rain.

Jonathan ~

Congratulations this post is now featured in the Blatant Politics Group of Active Rain.

Jonathan - I would have featured this in more places if I could. So simple and yet right now America is sleepwalking into disaster.

So simple yet they do not grasp it

This one was for all the bitter clingers out there. We get it!

I'll tell you what - if America is dumb enough to elect him, the first thing I'm doing on November the 5th is going out and buying one I can cling to!

We should also consider "Joe the Employee" who works for the "plumber" or Home Depot, the cell company, etc. Joe the Employee doesn't get retirement or health care benefits from Joe the Plumber. Therefore, the government must intervene - you can call it Socialism, I call it Common Sense.

Great post Jonathan. Keep posting the truth and maybe the Marxist thinkers in the world and on the politically correct Activerain like Jay Allen will some day get it.

Why don't the Marxist just go to a Marxist country instead of trying to cram their Marxist ideas down our throats?

Jonathan - I'm still not convinced Joe's taxes would go up. By the time he reaches the point where it goes up, I'll be praising him for being one of the most succesful plumbers ever.

OCT

2008

Hey Jonathan,

I'm with you. Our tax system is already progressive. Someone tell me again, if Joe the plumber works long hours, 6 days a week, takes the risks, sacrifices time with family, why does he get penalized with even higher tax rates?

Great post! I agree, we are all Joe the Plumber! I grew up poor and worked my way up. At this stage in my life I do not want to go backwards and redistribute my wealth at the expense of my own hard work and family It is is not Russia. There was a time that in this nation someone that espoused redistributing your wealth without your permission would be called a "Communist or a Socialist!" Let's not mince our own words and call it for what it is....a total loser!

It isn't charity if someone just takes our money and to give to others.

The thing you failed to mention in your blog post is Joe wants to buy a successful plumbing business that would put him in a tax bracket of over $250K of income a year, so I really don't have any issues with Obama raising taxes on those that make over $250K a year. I would have an issue if he intended on raising taxes for those that make less than $250K a year and from what he is saying I don't believe his tax plan calls for that.

Here's the bottom line - and it's not just about Joe the Plumber. Our economy runs on the success of the entreprenurial spirit and small businesses. As a past Chair of our local Chamber of Commerce, home-based and small businesses make up some 70% of our membership and they have a tough go of it most of the time. They are already overburdened by governmental demands, paperwork, taxes, paperwork, healthcare concerns and paperwork. But many of them do bring in over 250,000/year, enabling them to add another truck, another employee, move out of their garage into a real shop, etc. Obama's tax plan is aimed right at the heart of these businesses. He won't hurt big business. They'll just tack it onto the price of their product or service - but the little guys are the ones caught in the squeeze. Many Realtors fall into that same category and we wilol end up working harder just to stay even under the Obama tax plan. Thanks but no thanks.

Gene - I do not believe it's $250k gross that's being taxed.

Great Post Jonathan:

About a 100 years ago when I was in college at USD, Dr. Rivetti, my finance teacher, said that the number one rule of finance is: the bigger the risk the bigger the reward. I just passed up the opportunity to open a restaurant in a great location, because of fear of the economy, the cost, etc. As a result, I did not hire at least 5 people. Those employees will not spend in the economy, and the municipalilties will not derive tax revenues.

I believe what you wrote about is called the "multiplier effect". People hire people, and those people spend money. In turn, those people spend, and the cycle continues. People are stopping spending now, and employers are cutting back from lack of revenues - less spending occurs. When an empolyer gets taxed more, they also have to cut back more. Loss of more jobs occurs, and spending decreases. That's just basic economics.

Someone on Twitter commented last night, stop talking about Joe the Plummer, talk about me. I commented back, "you are Joe the plummer". We don't know if it is 250K gross or 250 NOI. Regardless, business don't pay capital gains and he still said it last night in the debate. Good post.

Jonathan,

Great post. As a homebuilder I can tell you that most guys that start plumbing companies work their rear end off. Obama and his band of jealous followers dont want Joe to make that kind of money because they just dont think it is fair. Take from Joe and give to those who do not work as hard. Goofy idea but more Americans seem to think it is OK.

Simon, did you just call Americans voting for Obama dumb? Just checking...:-)

It's a stretch Inna. America is scared. I think many of those voting for Obama are doing it because they are scared. They have no idea what he stands for. So yes - if you vote for someone without any clue what he is about, THAT makes you dumb. I heard on the radio this morning a guy saying he was voting for Obama because the Government needed to take over Wall Street and the Banks and healthcare - just like in the days of Ronald Reagan!!!!!! That guy should have his vote removed and is most certainly dumb!!

Politicians have a tough time truly understanding what small business owners do to keep the economy going. Guess who creates the jobs? It isn't the employees.

Simon

Only last week i believe you left the following comments on my blog regarding Palin... I am just curious how you justify this...
"So your point is really that Americans are stupid and even though so many like Sarah Palin, they are dumb if they vote for her..." and "Inna - that's great. If America likes Palin and votes for the ticket beause of it then America is - to quote you - "indeed dumb" "

Working hard and having the opportunity to become successful is what this country is all about. It allows people to have dreams, and then work hard to make those dreams come true. Do we really need someone to force you to give up part of your success to give to someone who may not have worked as hard as you did? There are many in this nation that need our help, but bigger, richer government is not always the answer. It saddens me to see our country so willing to accept this direction.

Inna - if Americans are voting for the ticket because they like Palin and have no idea what she stands for then they fall into the dumb category. You see to me it's not about the personalities - it's about the policies. I don't trust three of them. I don't believe three of them. I think McCain will do less damage than Obama. I think Sarah Palin is the only real person in this race. Do you know that yesterday she freaked out Secret Service when the bus was driving past a Wal-Mart. She made them stop and then she herself went inside because she needed diapers!! I think Americans understand that. She is one of us.

The ability of people, no...the disability of people, to only see what they need to see, rather than see things as they actually are...fascinating. This is occuring on the Right, as well as the Left.

A couple of more points... it looks like "Joe the Plumber" hasn't been concerned about paying taxes in the past. Also, in terms of plumbers, the United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters has endorsed Obama.

Jay wrote: "Also, in terms of plumbers, the United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters has endorsed Obama."

Dagger!

Jay, that is tooooo funny:-) Needed that, thank you!

Simon, I am not sure I understand the difference between me calling people who would vote for Palin dumb and you calling people who would vote for Obama dumb. Unless, of course, we are talking of different degrees of dumb-ness, in which case who is to judge? I would love to be able to figure out what Palin's policies would be like, or what she actually thinks about most of the important issues, however, I am afraid we won't be given the opportunity. I am not interested in Karl Rove using Palin's lipsticked lips for his speeches, and that's all I got to go on so far.

This article says Joe P is probably safe tax-wise.

OMG - Alert the media! A Union actually endorsed a Democrat for President! What a surprise!!!

And if "Joe the pulmber" bought the business, would his taxable income REALLY be over $250,000? If so, it's a lot bigger plumbing business than any I know about. And if his taxable income would be less than that, then Obama's plan would NOT raise his taxes.

My goodness its amazing to see how many people think we would become a Socialist Nation because of a change in tax code..that is not unlike Reagan or Clinton..Doom, gloom, the end of the world as we know it.

The fact of the matter is yes, we are all Joe the Plumber...but theoretically the employees that work for Joe the Plumber who might want to own their OWN businesses, who get a little extra help for their education, and start-up help, just might make better plumber than JOE. Isn't that what a free market system is about? Competition is good for Joe. Joe better stay on his toes and be the BEST plumber he can be.

Besides, We ALL know if Joe gets rich off of his company he most likely will not re-invest in his own employees, he will buy a bigger house, a boat, a HUmmer, a quad, etc. etc, and in anything that will give him a tax break. Then when he can't afford his toys anymore because the middle class can't afford to hire him and his employees have been treated like shit and quit or got fired, he'll blame it on all those taxes he had to pay....I see it everyday!

Lower taxes for the rich has done NOTHING in this country but create whiny, selfish, materialistic greedy Rich People. Look around you. Innovation, creativity and ingenuity have been suffocated. The rich want to keep everything "Status quo" and are threatened by anyone who might take any of it away.

EVERYONE has dreams. Not just people who make $250,000 or more. My children and your children have dreams. And what a better world it might be if a bigger percentage of those people actually were able to achieve their dreams. There will always be lazy low-lifes who choose not to work because welfare is easier. And there will always be rich selfish people who do nothing to give back. I happen to be of the thinking that given half a chance at a better life, most will choose to do something with better opportunity. They'll save better, invest, send their kids to college. That is the way it used to be. If I made $250,000 or more I would GLADLY give my share back to this country!

Rant over;) Go ahead call me names like Liberal, Socialist, Commy, Marxist, Dumb, Ignorant...I don't care.

One more note about "Joe the Plumber" - he doesn't have a plumber's license!

OMG - he should be arrested for doing plumbing work without a license.

Wow, this took a life on all of its own. Unfortunately, it seems that many of your guys are missing that by saying "we're all joe the plumber," I really didn't mean to focus on Joe Wurzelbacher. Here's the bottom line in this discussion:

When you increase taxes on any working American, cut backs are necessary to maintain the same standard of living. For small business (i.e. real estate), that may mean cutting back advertising, assistants, materials, etc. That's simple economics. If you're a home builder, you need laborers, contractors, materials, trucks tools, etc. When the cut backs happen locally, it affects the economy globally. If I don't buy a (fill in the blank here) this year because I'm being taxed even more, that has ripple effects throughout the economy and will make any economic slow down prolonged.

Those in Congress pushing these higher taxes, and another economic stimulus package are defending the increasing by saying I don't know how to spend my money so they're going to give to those who will. I guess that's what I get for attempting to be responsible for my future and the welfare of my family. I would rather choose to pay my employees more and "help those behind me" instead of the government making them addicted to their handouts. After all, when my money and the "joe's" money isn't enough, don't think they won't come after you too.

One final note: those of you who are in favor of this plan should consider donating a little extra to the government on your next 1040. It's not that the government has a second job to account for all this spending. Calculate your taxes based on the $250k tax rate and that should aleviate any guilt you may have.

Who's first with the donations?

You know, doesn't this whole tax arguement make you consider why Obama, McCain and others wouldn't institute a consumption-based or flat tax instead?

No it doesn't.

In regards to your prior post, I am fine with paying higher taxes. Our country is not doing well and we need to cut expenditures and increase income. The next President of the US is going to raise taxes - whether his name is Barack or John. That you can count on.

Let's stop attacking Joe the Plummer as the liberal spin machine likes to do with anyone who is hurting the chances of the messiah coming to power.

It seems that Charlie Rangel forgot to pay his taxes as well and he wrote the bill?

Tchaka;

So how much did you donate last year?

The Law Firm of Obama and Biden are touting a tax cut for 95% of all American's. The Wall Street Journal has looked into this claim and explains the 95% myth. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html

They found that for those making as little as $40,000 will see a tax increase.

Jonathan ~ As always liberals say they like to pay higher taxes, and give very little to charities or to faith based institutions.

OCT

2008

Everyone does have to admit its pretty funny that Joe The Plummer turned out to be a unlicensed plummer who owes back taxes under the current tax plan.

Kind of symbolic for the McCain campaign. They don't spend much time vetting anything. The guys that have run this campaign for him will be lucky to get City Council races in the future.

I find it interesting, but not surprising, that the first response by the Obama campaign, and the left in general, is to attack the person, as if that will change the meaning of Obama's response, which is the real issue. Joe the plumber is just a guy who stood up and asked a question that received a surprisingly candid response that revealed more of Obama's position than all of his scripted debate responses and tele-prompter aided speeches.

Mike--- Its a great talking point, without question. However, McCain's team chose to throw him in the national spotlight by mentioning him a dozen times in front of tens of millions.

But if you were running the McCain camp, wouldnt it make sense to 1) call the guy first to let him know that you would like to include him in the conversation and 2) make sure the guy was really a licensed plummer and not a tax deadbeat??

This poor guy is now on national news saying he is mad that he is in the middle, he wont even say who he endorses, and now the nation knows he owes back taxes. The IRS doesnt like embarrassment so I am sure they have already increased the pressure.

John McCain is an American hero and an outstanding candidate for President. His campaign team is awful and make him look like he is all over the board. He deserves better.

Aaron - I agree that McCain's campaign team hasn't performed up to snuff. However, Joe the Plumber's question and Obama's answer is the issue. And the democrats are doing as good a job of redirecting the discussion here as they did during the Clinton impeachment, making it all about "a private sexual matter" rather than the issue of lying under oath. Here they are making it about Joe owing taxes and not being a licensed plumber rather than the issue of wealth redistribution (not just income redistribution).

Mike ~ Good observation. Wealth distribution...man, Obama is kicking himself for opening his big mouth three weeks before the election.

Nicholas & Mike, you are both reading far too much into an off-the-cuff, 4 minute response to a question. What sort of bizarre things would Palin say over the course of 4 minutes if she were asked a spur of the moment question?

When McCain used the phrase "my fellow prisoners" - does that mean that he will start WWIII and we are all going to be prisoners forever?

When Palin said New Hampshire was in the "Great Northwest" - what did she mean?
When Palin said Afghanistan is "our neighbor" - did she not have access to a map or globe?

It's time to move past Marxism nonsense, because neither candidate serving as president will result in a Marxist society.

Chill!

Jay - Obama's comment was in line with what he has written and what he has espoused historically, an anti-capitalist agenda.

So Joe isn't licensed, doesn't make $250,000 a year, and owes back taxes. Does that make his question and Obama's remarks thereafter less valid? I'm appauled at how this guy has been shredded apart for just asking the question we're all wondering.

That he aspires to one day own the company he works for and is working hard to that goal is essentially the dream we all have.

OCT

2008

Hi, Jonathan. Mere mortals shouldn't ask questions of the anointed. Be careful, you might be next to be demonized by the 'tolerant' supporters of the one who will not be scrutinized.

It's a scary day in this country when a voter can't ask a candidate candid questions about policies without being pilloried by the opposition.

I dare anybody in the real estate industry who can say that they didn't know any Mr. Fixit without a license doing work for their neighbors, family, friends, or clients.

I spoke with Herb the dogcatcher earlier and he's not voting. Neither is Lou the mechanic or Marge the seamstress.

YES, how dare you ask that question directly to the messiah of the world.

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