Pot of Boiling water  by Steve Vaughn FlickrWe have all been exposed to the story of a frog and boiling water. 

It goes like this:  If you boil a pot of water and throw a frog in, the frog will jump out. However, if you put a frog in a pot of water and continually turn the heat up it will boil to death.

It is the principal of gradualism. Most people will resist violent change; hey, we've seen it here on Activerain, when we can't find our Blog Buttons, Localism, Re-Blogging  and other issues that have come up.  Ouch

Today I was out grocery shopping and was listening to the radio, not even sure which station, but the host was reading the following list off.  I was shocked and when I arrived home, immediately went to my computer to see if what he was saying was correct. It was.

I will give credit at the end, but please read this and see if you understand what I am talking about.  Lately, my good friend Fran Gaspari has written 2 different posts that were transparent and in doing so made himself vulnerable to us.  Fran has inspired me to do likewise.

Here is the information taken straight from the web-site. 

It is shameful and unacceptable that any child should live in poverty, and that anyone should go hungry, homeless, without medicine, or without a living wage in our nation of such great wealth.

Meet the Needs of Working, Unemployed and Farm Families

- Raise the minimum wage to $12 an hour.

-Unemployment insurance for all workers.

- Moratorium on farm foreclosures

- No privatization of Social Security. Increase benefits.

- Universal prescription drug coverage administered by Medicare. Universal health care system.

- Restore social safety net. Welfare reform that includes job training, supports and living wages.

- Labor law reform to remove barriers to workers who want to join a union.

- Full funding for equal, quality, bi-lingual public education. No vouchers.

 

  Make Corporate Giants Pay

- Repeal tax cuts to the rich and corporations.

- Close corporate tax loopholes.

- Restitution to workers' pensions.

- Strong regulation of financial industry.

- Regulation and public ownership of utilities

- Prosecute corporate polluters. Public works program to clean our air, water and land.

- Aid to cities and states. Federally funded infrastructure repair and social service programs.

  

Foreign Policy for Peace and Justice

- No to war with Iraq - End military interventions

- Repeal Fast Track and NAFTA, stop Free Trade Area of the Americas(FTAA). No secrecy.

- Save Salt II Agreements, reject Star Wars and Nuclear Posture Review

-Abolish nuclear weapons

- End military interventions.

- Cut military budget and fund human needs.

  

Defend Democracy and Civil Rights

- End racial profiling.

- Repeal the death penalty.

- Enforce civil rights laws and affirmative action.

- Repeal USA Patriot Act.

- Legalization and protection of immigrant>rights.

- Public financing of elections. Over all election law reform including Instant Runoff Voting.

- Youth and student bill of rights. Guarantee youth's right to earn,learn and live.

Sound familiar?

If you guessed the Democratic Party in America.................

You're wrong.

This is the goals of the Communist Party in America.  It is taken straight from their web -site.

Socialism is a transitional stage because there isn't a quick straight line between a society based on exploitation and one based on equality, plenty, and human needs as the ultimate determining factor rather than profits. There are many "hidden" aspects of the economy and other social organization that will have to be changed, a process that will be protracted.

Socialism, in our view, is a precursor to communism. Socialism is a stage of development where society transforms itself into an economic system based on production for use rather than production for profit, where social need plays a much larger role in political and economic decisions, where the "commanding heights of the economy" are socially owned and run on behalf of society, and where people can begin to transform themselves.

I love America and our valuesThe post is not intended to pick on any political party, but to show how we are all capable of being the frog that sits in the boiling water getting hotter and hotter, until it is too late to reverse the trends affecting our nation. Bad decisions are being made by both sides.

The blame is not to one political party but both and more importantly to us, for allowing the changes to come about in the first place. We have not appreciated our history; we do not understand the price that was paid by our Founding Fathers to establish this Republic. 

Do I agree with some of these?  Of course. Do I disagree with many of them, Yes.  Do I see the United States of America slipping into a socialistic society where we expect the government to take care of us from the cradle to the grave?  YES. 

 It is not the government's responsibility to do this. It should be a voluntary decision from our churches,  synagogues, non-profits and us as individuals.

we are the frogs bowing downWe ARE the frogs in the pot of boiling water.................

 

 

 

 

 

 

***Photo of boiling water, courtesy of Steve Vaughn, Flickr***

 

 
Post is included in group: Almost Anything Goes
Post is included in group: Blatant Politics
Post is included in group: Diary of a Realtor
Post is included in group: Front Porch Majority
Post is included in group: The Ninety-ninth Percentile

77 Comments on It's Getting Hot in Here................

OCT
18
2008
820,452 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Not a dime's worth of difference. 

5:09pm • #1
420,879 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Missy,

For those who don't read history, Communism, which is Socialism at its 'best', has failed!!! Our Republic was founded by those with a vision based on self reliance and accountability...I, for one am proud to be an American!!! Nice post! Thanks,   Fran

5:13pm • #2
165,969 Points 17 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Wow Missy.  What a powerful post.  We are on a slippery slope in my opinion.  I think many citizens think that if the new administration's policies end up being bad, we can just vote in someone new in 4 years and reverse the bad policies. Hah to that idealogy.  Look at Johnson's great society policies that we are still living with all these years later.  Everyone needs to be informed--thank you for doing that with this post--and everyone needs to vote in this election.

God bless,

5:15pm • #3

Very timely post Missy.  Now, how do we get the message out clearly to another 300, 000,000 Americans?

5:17pm • #4
362,591 Points 110 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ditto to Lenn's comment.  Ditto to Fran's comment. You need a gold star here.  I'm suggesting it now.

I so agree, in case you didn't figure that out already.

kk

5:25pm • #5
1 Featured Post Outside Blog Hit Router

Missy - YEP, We (the good old USA) are one boiled frog farther down the "slippery slope".  I remember over 45 years ago my grandpa McNinch (an old cowboy, farmer and logger) used to say "the communists are going to ruin our country."  He's rolling over and over now, I'm sure.

List and Sell (nice post and pretty darn timely)  Gary @ RentonHomeFinder

5:37pm • #6

Great post Missy. Oftentimes it's not about what's being said (by either party), but what's not being said (the hidden stuff) we need to focus on. 

5:56pm • #7
164,448 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

"It is shameful and unacceptable that any child should live in poverty, and that anyone should go hungry, homeless, without medicine, or without a living wage in our nation of such great wealth."

Ido not care where you found this: on a website or at a church. It is  a shame that anyone has to ever go hungry in this country. I don't agree at all with communist or socialist principles. However I believe that for me personally,we do have a moral obligation to help others. I  (along with many others from my office) volunteer with a group here in Austin that feeds homeless folks and when you see the people in the lines it will give you a much different perspective. As a matter of fact I think I will write about them in the next week or so. Thanks Missy, I always enjoy reading your posts!

6:16pm • #8
417,708 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog

This is certainly worthy:) Going to hit you up!

6:18pm • #9
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Russell, please do. You and your group are doing it the right way, by volunteering. I have helped out in homeless shelters and food banks. We all have passions for different things, currently mine is for students expelled from schools through stupid mistakes and that is who is getting my attention right now.

Our county can rise to any occassion. Not saying all the programs are wrong, they are not. Just who should be doing the work us or the government. The churches and synagogues have not done enough IMHO.

We see and know the needs in our local communities, thanks for stopping by.

6:28pm • #10
250,543 Points 14 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Bad decisions are being made all around.  Exceptional post.  I am now subscribed.  KM

6:36pm • #11
164,448 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Missy, I applaud you for your efforts too. Now That's a tough bunch that needs truly help (truth be told I did some pretty stupid thing in the last century too). Thanks again and have a good weekend!

6:50pm • #12
249,992 Points 24 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I've never heard that story about the frog...or the one you noted in your post. that's something to ponder. Hmmmm.

7:13pm • #13
254,683 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Missy girl, I'm not about to jump into that pot of water! I have to say, I agree with a little and would love to debate a lot! I am simply going to say a prayer, go to that little booth, and adapt...

Later in the rain~Deb

7:17pm • #14
383,807 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Some peoplewould like the warm water and never notice the steam until it was too late. I agree we need to help the less fortunate where do you draw the line?

7:17pm • #15
10 Featured Posts

I'd forgotten about the frog story. In one of Jim Crawford's posts (I believe it was Jim's) he questioned as to why people don't fight anymore like they did in the 60's & 70's for civil rights, for women's rights, and against the war. Those people were the frogs that jumped out of the pot.

We've become complacent - and we're being cooked.

7:28pm • #16
17 Featured Posts

Missy, I applaud your efforts as well on this, even though I find striking resemblances to Facism starting to rear its ugly head in the name of the GOP, so just to add a balance to the friendly debate I'll add the 14 Characterisitcs of Facism. We have 2 pots of water to watch in my opinion.

The 14 characteristics are:

  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

  2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

  3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.


  4. Supremacy of the Military
    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

  5. Rampant Sexism
    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

  6. Controlled Mass Media
    Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

  7. Obsession with National Security
    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

  8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.


  9. Corporate Power is Protected
    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.


  14. Fraudulent Elections
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

 

7:29pm • #17
205,321 Points 19 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

We're doomed Comrade.  We do let it happen, every two years, four years or six years.  Everything that is happening in this country right now can be laid at the hands of our current elected officials.  They let it happen and we enabled them.

7:33pm • #18
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Laura, the only fascist I see in America is the media, and ACORN. Hardly the GOP or DNC. Being loyal to a party or group does not mean you are a fascist, of which I am not.

Richard, I think it goes back further than the Last 4 years, but that is another post.

Elaine, I agree and it may happen. As James Carvelle said there will be rioting on the streets IF Obama doesn't win.I almost feell off my chair when I heard that with my own ears.

Deb, my life is not determined by what happens in the booth, I have my family and friends and that is most important. Yea, I'll adapt whoever wins.

Lizette, that story can be applied to so many systems, businesses, churches, big box offices in our country. We sit in the pot of boiling water and adapt, the gradualism comes so slowly.

Terry, you asked a very good question. My question is who is the best to help the unfortunate? Is it the government or more of it or the individuals who have a heart and passion to help?  Both have a roll, IMHO.

 

7:56pm • #19
175,126 Points 19 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi Missy,

Although your post was not meant to be partisan, by asking if we thought of the Democratic Party when we read the list is clearly drawing a comparison between the Democratic Party and the Communist Party.  Trying to draw parallels between either of the major parties, Republican or Democrat with non-mainstream parties in order to insinuate that they are similar is not advancing the cause of democracy.

I am an active member of the Democratic Party.  I am not a communist nor a socialist. 

You mentioned that there are some points you support and others you do not.  I feel the same.  Without knowing which you support and which ones you do not I have no idea if we are close or far, far apart in how we view the role of the government.

Having been a volunteer for a good 50+ years testifies to my belief in the value of volunteering.  Do I feel that volunteers can solve all of our social and economic ills?  My answer is a resounding no.  Remember the word is volunteer.  Many times volunteers find other things in their lives that take their attention away from the welfare of others.  As altruistic as we would like to think we are, when our own particular needs are pressing (or when we convince ourselves they are) we can quickly forget about others.

I have had a number of REALTORS say they "wish" they could have volunteered following Katrina and the other recent hurricanes.  When I told them how to contact the Red Cross I was told by each one that there was no way they would leave their business as it would cost them money.  For some, there is never enough money.  It was important to me and I volunteered twice.  Although many, many thousands stepped forward to help, hundreds of thousands did not.  Some never had and never will.  All of us know people that have never volunteered.  Volunteering is a choice.

Relying only on the "goodness" of others is too risky.  Few of us would walk away from help if we really needed it whether it came from a neighbor or a social service agency. 

Why do we have a public school system?  Why not let volunteers teach the children?

Some of us have never had to turn to anyone for help.  I have not had to and I am grateful for that, however, everyone is not as fortunate.

Each of us has their own view of which direction our country should go and the wonderful thing is that we are entitled to our view.  We all manage to survive even when the "other" party is in power.  We will continue to.  That is what's so wonderful about our country and all of us.

Take care,

Kate

 

 

8:28pm • #20
17 Featured Posts

Missy..Just for the clarification I never meant to insinuate that you are a Facist. There are trends of BOTH in our government. I just think that correlating the Democratic party with a Communist website hints that Democrats are Socialists and there are arguments for both. I agree with you when you say that "individuals" have to be responsible for helping others, and more importantly themselves. But exactly at what point should goverment intervene? Only to when its time to Bailout big corporations that fund both sides of government?

8:28pm • #21
420,879 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Missy,

Anyone who won't admit that democrats are socialist is in denial...and I don't mean that river in Egypt!!! Thanks,   Fran

P.S. Compare #2 on the Fascist list with the legalization of abortion supported by most all democrats...!

8:45pm • #22
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Kathleen, hi how are you? I know you volunteer for the Red Cross and sacrifice your time and business to do so. I'd be happy to tell you wish one of these I support and which I don't. But, it would take another post. So we will talk again, but the big ones I don't support is not having vouchers. Every parent should have the right to teach their children however they want. They pay taxes so they should be able to take that voucher to where they want, charter schools, home school whatever.  Why not allow, just like the Senate and House does the right to fund their own retirement. If the House and Senate don't have SS, why should we ? Should it be available yes, but also to those who save they should be able to be privately insured.

Medicare overseeing drug prescriptions, no way. Universal health care, NO.

I would like to see NAFTA over-turned it is not fair. The unions have killed the auto industry in MI. Why are so many people moving South? The Unions. Why isn't Toyota union? They are doing quite well. Was there a use for Unions many years ago? Absolutely, but they are out of control. Why did Saturn and Nissan move to Nashville.

As I said, I heard this on the radio, and I was caught off guard when the host read the list. I immediatley thought the host was talking about the Dem's. I was shocked to hear these views of the CPOA.

I have voted Democratic many times, and am voting this time for a Democratic Board for my Township.

8:49pm • #23
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Laura, thank you for saying you don't think I'm a fascist. LOL. I've been called lots of things in my life but not that one. I didn't agree with the bail out at ALL. It made me sick, companies fail all the time and no one would bail me or you out if our business failed, right?  Either candidate elected is going to take us one step closer to socialism, but one at least believes in a FREE Market and "not spreading the wealth around."

Fran, You know I agree with you on # 2. There are good folks in both parties and that is what I focus on.

 

8:55pm • #24
579,813 Points 80 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Great post!  Gradual change is never noticed.   It is insidious, sounds well intentioned but is meant to subvert the will of the republic.  The reasons that jobs leave this country and go overseas is cheaper corporate tax.  Some want to raise it more, and that will only cause more jobs to leave.  Americans need to get used to the fact that there is No more free lunch!  Someone pays for it!

9:00pm • #25
260,451 Points 59 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Missy - I pay attention; I knew you would eventually write this.  Let me preface what I am about to write with two facts... as I see them.  Number one, I adore you.  You are a staple (rightfully so from my vantage point)in the Real Estate Industry and a one heck of an individual.  Number two, your opinion matters (to me) just as much if not more than any I've read about these things you write about.

As you probably have figured out, we have a tad different perspective when it comes to the political realm.  I'm neither Democrat nor Republican, though both parties have implemented very good ideas and allowed the system to thrive over time.  I've been wanting a legit third party since my college days, not because of rebellion (at least not now)... but because free enterprise seems extinct in the convoluted system of such narrow bounds.  While both parties and communism and socialism have their ideological place...  I tend to side on what works for all of us.  There are many issues and God knows we won't be right in addressing them all.  Health Care, The Economy, Domestic Policy, Foreign Policy, Our Economy, Immigration, Abortion, Same Sex Marriage, Energy, Trivial Lawsuits, Nuclear Weapons, & does bread deserve butter before it becomes a sandwich?

We've been hounded too long from career politicians.  Politics were to be a civic duty, not an occupation... according to the Constitution we so adamantly cite.  Without US, there is no THEM.  That should be remembered.  Humanity, at its finest, encompasses the ability to work together to achieve a common goal.  That common goal tends to be something we are ALL born into.

Revolutions don't have to be nasty... or violent.  In fact, I believe a proper revolution is the exact opposite.  We need a revolution because we just do.  Barack won't bring it and John won't either.  We will.  And that makes the people in charge, which isn't a bad thing.  After all, our existence is the people.  It is you and I.

9:18pm • #26
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Jason, I adore you too, I would love a Revolution! A Revolution that would turn us back to the values that our country was founded upon.  Actually, I have thought many times where is the Ross Perot when we need him. Someone who speaks the truth and doesn't need the job. Being a civil servant WAS a calling, you're right it is all about power. Actually, I would have loved to have seen Condelessa Rice run, but she is too smart for that.

Jason, my concern, by BIG concern is that we ALL Democrat's, Independants,  and Republicans are accepting TOO many things that were not the intent of the Founding Fathers and we are slowly accepting the views that will not reward hard work for our efforts. We already work unitl Wed at noon to pay all of our taxes, how many more days will we have to do so. NO longer can a couple barely make it if both people don't work.

I want my own children to be able to stay at home with their kids, like I was able to. Yea, it was hard and things were tight, but I wouldn't give up those years for anything.

Now can't wait to watch SNL tonight. :) (((mwa)))

9:33pm • #27
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Jim, the Free lunch will be us paying for it. Not like we don't now but it will be so much more.

9:35pm • #28
623,214 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Missy- I applaud you for being transparent. It is hard to know when to post about polarizing subjects but it is well documented that the best thing that you can do on a blog, speaking engagement or in writing a book is to polarize your audience.  It is a scary thing to post about communism and socialism because you take the chance of the far left attacking you because of their denial and defense of their agenda which is exactly socialism but they don't want to admit that it is.

It is the same thing Hitler did. And while he was called a Fascist he was really a socialist. If you read about how many Germans did not support him and did not believe in his rhetoric but they were simply complacant, in denial and 'too busy' with their own lives to realize his great rise to power and what would become of them. History has many lessons on this that we need to study.

I have lost subscribers even because of my freedom and capitalistist view points. Free markets must be allowed to work themselves out. Read the latest Forbes magazine, great points, Steve Forbes makes about this very subject. In fact I was going to post about the implications of these higher taxes that would be proposed and who they really will effect.

Our nation is the greatest and raises the most money for Charity than any other country in the world. We volunteer the most.

It is NOT true that Volunteerism will not work alone. It will. If you look at socialist countries like England you will find they have the lowest rates of volunteers. The reason why is apathy. They are taxed so heavily for the government social programs that they say, why should we volunteer, we contribute with all our money. So they don't volunteer. You see, their freedom to do so, the fire, was extinguished by governmental controls and taxation.Katerina

 

9:35pm • #29
365,154 Points 63 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi Missy, This should be featured. I will admit, when I first starting reading this, I said to myself, Oh No but then quickly realized that there was a point in finishing reading this. This all says a lot about who we are becoming. It really breaks my heart when I think about it. It is sort of human nature of those who will not learn that certain actions and philosphies have consequences even if not intended.

9:42pm • #30
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Katerina have you ever heard of this quote by Niemoller, a German?

"Pastor Niemöller spoke for thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing; and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something--but then it was too late."

9:43pm • #31
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

William, that is why I don't judge people because I know their intentions and hearts are not bad. Yes, our actions have consequences, even when they are only intended for good. I mean who wouldn't get excited about most of this..................but the consequences of what sounds so good is paid for with a very high cost for future generations.

9:47pm • #32
264,755 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Missy - thanks for having the courage to write this. I know I dont' like to be confrontational and yet you have moved me to share my concerns and fears.

As I look back on my life - I truly believe the best gift my parents gave me it was to be "self reliant" and the belief that I could do anything I worked at hard enough.  (I started working at 14, put myself through college and whenever there have been bumps in the road I have known that the lessons learned will help me on the journey and if you don't succeed - try try again. - I am not bragging what I am trying to say is I would rather work a 16 hr day building "my business" than "be taken care of" if I'm able to work)

Am I the only one in our industry that wishes I could count on $12 an hour everyday - lol! That's a choice we made - just saying when people start complaining about what they get paid - I laugh at the times I work and don't get paid yet I'm investing in our business - with sweat equity, marketing, and more and we EVEN have to spend money to run our businesses so we actually start every month in the hole...like everything else it's risk and reward - I'll take the risk and bet on ourselves

We've all seen instances where people need help (Katrina's a perfect example and living in Florida we have lots of experience with this)- and I believe our country has always shown care and support of our neighbors (even globally) - I also believe that when you set up systems / society where the goal is to "take care of people" rather than "teach people to be self reliant" there are two losers. The person and the community. Just like we learn as parents - if you don't teach a child to have responsibilities you rob them of the self esteem that comes from knowing they CAN accomplish things themselves.

I have great faith in my fellow Americans - and we don't have to look far to see and example of the fabric we're all made of and the big hearts we have - remember 911!

I also find it curious that many who want to "spread the wealth"  don't give more of their own.  When you look at the 2 candidates and who as walked the walk - you gotta go with the McCains - they have used their own resources to help others - Cindy was in Ruanda when others weren't and look at their own family and their adoped children. They definitely put their principles into action and I respect that.

Our family has always volunteered in our community since first helping at the nursing home as a child - I was taught back then and  truly believe "to whom much is given, much is expected" however I had an experience lately that crystalizes the slow boiling pot to me .....there was a single mom with 2 children I  helped purchase a home within the last year who had work for our local govt. and appeared to be living the American dream...then one day I got a call saying she was going to quit her job and walking away from her home so she could get "free money" to go back to college. I was shocked to say the least. Realize she didn't lose her job - it was just easier to basically let society be the parent and take care of all her responsibilities - we'll be paying for her foreclosed home, her education, her medical, her food...and why? she's able just no longer willing.

To me there's something wrong about a system that encourages walking away from our responsibilities because there is an easy way -  free money  - only the dirty little secret is it isn't FREE.  It's one thing to lose a job and need assistance - this reminds me of the kind of simplistic reasoning you'd expect from children not adults.

I have actually asked recently - are we not already experiencing socialism / communism?

  • Remember in past world wars when we broke the enemy through media propoganda - can any one honestly say our media today is NOT biases? What happened to reporting versus spinning? 
  • Never in my life would I have believed that we could have fraudulent elections in America and leaders would turn the other way - again I can think of times in my life we've laughed at the joke of elections certain regimes have held - I am deeply concerned at what ACORN has done.  

I worry that after the next  4 years if all Obama's propsed programs are implemented (and with a Democratic congress it should all get approved) we will have lost "America" for ever.

We all know that we will already struggle forever with funding Social Security and Medicare - Did you know that Hawaii the first state to offer universal health care and just had to stop it after 7 months because they found that all that had insurance and could afford it - quit paying for it and they couldn't handle the costs....DUH!!!! This is a perfect example of good intentions good wrong. I hate paying for health insurance - but I'm not naive enough to believe there is a FREE solution.

I also worry deeply that if we have a country with only 5% stakeholders (paying taxes) - 95% are "wards of the state" living off OPM - other people's money - I fear we'll KILL the American spirit of making our dreams come true through ingenuity and all that continues to make us special.

I struggle not to "talk politics" however the stakes are so high - it is important to have these discussions before it's too late.   

It also reminds me of one of the earliest lessons in life we all learn.. If it looks to good to be true ... it probably is!

The reality is there are NO EASY ANSWERS ...so please don't insult my intellegence and I won't insult yours by saying there are - wish we could get the politicians to do the same. 

I believe the ramifications of this election will be longstanding if Obama wins because he could get a veto proof Congress and could nominate the next 3 judges of the Supreme Court -

I am also disappointed that I am seeing people who don't agree with his policies being called "racist" - that is so WRONG and like calling wolf when there is none. 

In summary, I find it scary that we have a Presidential candidate that if he applied for ANY other job in our US Government he couldn't be hired because he couldn't get a SECURITY CLEARANCE based on the people he associates with and people seem ready to overlook that...even though we all remember 911.

I hope each person will really educated themselves and take their right to vote seriously - and I hope everyone only get's ONE vote! 

     

10:19pm • #33
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Cyndee, thanks for pouring out your heart and thoughts. I had no idea about Hawaii, but it is not surprising that would happen. I am appalled as well about all the fraudulent voter registration going on. I have a feeling this may not be over on the 4th. You mentioned your past client quitting her job and going back to school, we have a similar program in MI, if you are pregnant and not married the state will pay for you to go to college. Gee with 2 girls that was tempting. (not really) but you get my point.

Yea, there is a lot at stake in this election. Thanks again for your thoughts.

10:54pm • #34
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Cyndee, thanks for pouring out your heart and thoughts. I had no idea about Hawaii, but it is not surprising that would happen. I am appalled as well about all the fraudulent voter registration going on. I have a feeling this may not be over on the 4th. You mentioned your past client quitting her job and going back to school, we have a similar program in MI, if you are pregnant and not married the state will pay for you to go to college. Gee with 2 girls that was tempting. (not really) but you get my point.

Yea, there is a lot at stake in this election. Thanks again for your thoughts.

10:54pm • #35
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Cyndee, thanks for pouring out your heart and thoughts. I had no idea about Hawaii, but it is not surprising that would happen. I am appalled as well about all the fraudulent voter registration going on. I have a feeling this may not be over on the 4th. You mentioned your past client quitting her job and going back to school, we have a similar program in MI, if you are pregnant and not married the state will pay for you to go to college. Gee with 2 girls that was tempting. (not really) but you get my point.

Yea, there is a lot at stake in this election. Thanks again for your thoughts.

10:54pm • #36
OCT
19
2008
1 Featured Post Hit Router

Missy,  There have been times in our history which should be remembered and that was the McCarthyism period.  This was a time that we can agree was an embarrassment to our country.

Hopefully people can respect differences of opinions and agree to disagree.

This country was founded on more than one party for excellent reasons and that keeps us strong as well.

May our different opinions keep our country strong as well.  I'm happy that so many people are interested in the election.

 

5:57am • #37
250,462 Points 44 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Perhaps it's because I'm getting older..or perhaps it's because I've seen firsthand the heartache that has been happening in our area..or just perhaps..this election year I am more torn than ever.  So many issues are near and dear to me, and yet I cannot feel confident about my voting choices.

What I do feel in my heart is this:  A community involving people are far more powerful (or should be) than government intervention.  There is so much that individually we can do to make a difference, yet with government oversight into the very fabric of our lives it is difficult.

 

7:01am • #38
359,055 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Missy-thank you for this post..great insight and really a very strong message.  I have my own beliefs that sometimes some would view UnAmerican...I'm proud to be an American. I don't look at my world with borders....I look my world as a planet...with humans beings..some suffering...some living fat..I have a hard time just being focused on just the United States!  That's me...now you know where I stand.

What I will say is that is that I have never ever been so into politics like I have been the past few years...call it my age..or even my concern for future generations...I believe we need each individual to step up to the plate. To be responsible for their own actions...help those that need public assistance.  I agree with some of the statements above and then there are those that I do not!

I am watching the debates...reading what I can to find accurate and true information...I am on the fence at this point...I'm over political parties.and the bashing...and the untruth..but I want to feel good about my decision.

I do not read public opinion...I want to make my own decision...I want to be proud of my decision...whether my candidate wins or loses!

Balance needs to be in government...because of political parties..because we are the people and the only way for that to happen is to go vote!

7:58am • #39
4 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

WOW - I am so glad I read all the comments - what great discussion which is what I think the best blogging is all about.  I have been very undecided and appreciate discussion like this to help me make an informed decision -- crucial for this election.  Also, Missy, I second what Jason Sardi said.

Not too long ago, I heard on the radio an analysis about a comment Obama made that seemed uncontroversial to me at the time.  This moderator really analyzed what must be the intent to have spoken it and took it to the extreme to a very real socialist point of view - it was eye opening for me as I had never considered it that way and quite disturbing--like realizing your opening statements described communism.

We definitely have two extremes - fascism and communism - one invites the other.  I asked a friend once why people filed so many ridiculous law suits and he said if you take away a freedom in one direction, you also sacrifice a freedom in the other - it narrows the range, if that makes sense.  So, it is a dilemma.  I agree with Lenn Henley's recent post about the bail out - wall street gets all the advantage while main street suffers the most.   Overall, I feel the democratic party, in the true vision of our founding fathers, is designed to keep a balance in these two extremes.  And, I have many times voted Republican as I really support free enterprise and entrepreneurship.  I, too, would love a third party and voted for Ross Perot.  As you can see, I am definitely torn in this election.

And then, how did his happen - the frog in the water definitely summarizes how--we get complacent, close our eyes and allow wall street, bail outs and so many other things - and I admit I am guilty of this.   So, which comes first, the chicken or the egg - when we look at the big picture.  It it greed or our complacency?  I watched the series on John Adams recently and wondered how did we get so far from the original ideal of democracy?  Is it as simple as this:  when things expand they naturally deteriorate.  Here I diverse but I studied chaos theory for a while and the concept of the expanding universe from a physics point of view.  I could go on about all that which would diverse farther into a philosophical/spiritual discussion on the meaning of life.  However, my biggest fear is that communism (and for that matter probably facism) takes away our right to religious beliefs - calling them a type of complacency.  It would definitely be nice to have a crystal ball on this one.

One final point/question:  I know several friends who were definitely leaning towards McCain until he picked Phalin.  I agree with them as I really have a hard time thinking that she might be president so I am curious what you think of this Missy?

9:31am • #40
10 Featured Posts

Ditto everything Cyndee had in her well-written comments! The country used to offer welfare and paid women based on the number of children they had. In the late 60's I worked at a major department store as Personnel Administrator. I can't tell you the number of times when I was interviewing people for retail sales jobs, that upon hearing the pay, they laughed at me and said they had to earn $X in order to make it worthwhile to go off welfare.

When I became a single mom, I could have made more by taking welfare, but I was raised to be responsible and to be accountable for my actions. So I struggled with a full time job, went to college at night, studied into the wee hours, and still tried to be a good mom. It wasn't easy, but I was very proud when I achieved my goal. Based on the values I was raised with, it was unfathomable to me to allow others, who chose to work, to have to pay for me to not work.

Taking care of people who TRULY need help and support is one thing. Giving people a free ride is an entirely different matter. Given our current global economy, the last thing we need is a society that becomes even less productive and that's what happens when the wealth is spread. The incentive to work, to produce, to achieve, to create, to excell ... is gone. It would be very dangerous for the country!

10:03am • #41
139,063 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Wow. This has been one of the best exchanges I read in a long time.

After college I lived in Italy for 3 years. I learned so much more about our history from the other side of the ocean AND how Eurpeans viewed us as a "people". We are such a me, me, me culture.

Yes, many people volunteer and donate money to worth causes but these "many people" are still only a fraction of the population. How can we expect our churches to help the poor if we don't give to them? Not just the churches but all the other worthy charities.

The government can't and shouldn't do all of that.  I am so sick of politics as usual. As someone said above, maybe this really is the time for a 3rd independent party. You know many in the country want it. Look at how popular Ross Perot was until his famous melt down.

11:12am • #42
175,126 Points 19 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi Missy...Our country has faced terrible times often in the past and made it through.

I am very trusting and I believe in the resilency and goodness of most of us no matter how we vote.

I also believe that we must nurture the moderates in our society rather than the extremists and that most of us are moderate.

No matter who wins, approximately half of the voters will be disappointed. They will just have to accept it. I did not support Pres. Bush in 2000 or 2004. In spite of that, he was elected! Can you imagine??? I survived! If Sen. Obama loses this time I'll survive again. And so will the United States!  That's what is important.

Kate

P.S.  The Founding Fathers had many good intentions.  I wish they had had a couple more.  You and I were not even given the right to vote!  Yikes!!!

12:48pm • #43
11 Featured Posts

Missy---

I hate to play Devil's Advocate here, but do you really expect the Communist Party to put "Heil Stalin" or "Commie Power" on their website?  Of course not. 

They will put populist/liberal ideas on there to appeal to as many people as possible.  Kind of like how "The West Wing" became such a popular TV show.   Make your politics appeal to the masses. 

"$12 per hour minimum?  Insurance for all?  Hey, honey, check out this website, Communism doesnt sounds so bad after all...sign us up!!!"

There is a panic going on right now with some.  They are afraid of the change that looks very possible in the next few weeks with a Democratic-controlled Congress and a Democrat in the White House.  

"Socialism!!  Wealth redistribution!!  Oh, my god, we are a nation in peril!!!"  These are fear words meant to affect the election.

Yes, we will have economic socialist traits as our government will also soon own a large piece of our major banks.  OUR business, in large part, helped create that.   It wasnt our politicians.

Does this make us socialists simply because our financial institutions are being bailed out from a financial mess?  Of course not.    Our government has been bailing out banks, corporations and cities for many decades. 

The New Deal, which increased federal government control over the economy and money supply, was criticized as communist and Roosevelt as Dictator.

I am an independant voting for Obama.  Altough I am not thrilled by the prospects of both the Congress and White House being controlled by the same party, can it really get any worse? 

If this were a football team, wouldn't you fire the entire coaching staff and release most of the players?

I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and Fran and your posts.  However, a financial bailout of our failed economic system does not equate to Socialism or a precursor of Communism. 

This crisis is major threat to us all but, in my opinion, our form of government is not at risk.  You won't hear it mentioned again after November 4th.

 

 

 

7:55pm • #44
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Cathy, I personally like Sarah better than McCain, if that helps. :)

Elaine, My grandmother raised 8 kids virtually alone, she took in ironing and did what she could. All 8 went to Catholic School and became very successful. She more than would have qualified but just would not do it.

Connie, I know people can do more, we collected book bags at my church for an inner city school in Detroit, and are raking leaves for the elderly the next two Saturdays. It doesn't have to done through churches, non-profits all over our cities. As Katerina said, we volunteer and give more to Charity than any other nation. We do if freely. Now I am not saying we don't need some social programs, we do.

Aaron, sorry I offended you. However, we are moving closer to a socialist society every day. Socialism is an economic system where the gov't takes care of you. It is paid for by the folks who make the money and it does distribute the wealth to make all things equal.  Regardless of who is elected we are heading that way, IMO it will be faster with one candidate especially if the House and Senate are also from the same party. I would be the first to include George Bush, in making terrrible financial decisions.

9:11pm • #45
135,446 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

 A frog in a pot, usually has a friend in there with them.... 

Pass the word.... 

10:13pm • #46
OCT
20
2008
200,708 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog

 Missy, that poor frog is not having a good time at all these last few centuries. Bravo, You went out on limb with this post.

My 2 cents.  Isn't it strange that the party of Socialistic ideals & sharing the wealth is spending over a 3/4  billion dollars to buy obtain the upper hand in this election? The one (pardon the pun) who once agreed to public financing has instead raided the coffers of the rich & famous to advance his political ambitions!

That 3/4 billion plus could have gone a long way to alleviate hunger, disease, & injustice. Guess he really doesn't like sharing at all, if it means sacrificing his plans & dreams!

The frog is alive & well in America. perfect example: I know I will  really stir the pot with this one, but I need to stand for those who cannot stand for themselves. Up until the 1930's all churches in America were pro-life and considered birth control against God's plan. Then the frog got dropped in the water by Margaret Sangers socialist, atheist & eugenisist  hand. And now decades later the holocaust of the unborn counts 45 million babies in the USA alone as its victims and seems nobody bats an eye.

Pelosi has her own froggie, & even goes so far as to rewrite church teaching on when life begins in her Meet the Press talking points and the moderator leaves her unchallenged. The frog is alive and well or should I said dead in the water.  Ginger

 Arina wrote an excellent blog along the same lines as yours did you see it?

12:26am • #47

Yoo Hoo !!.... Missy! Time to look at the evidence....!

Missy posted: 10/18/2008 07:56 PM

>Laura, the only fascist I see in America is the media, and ACORN. Hardly the GOP or DNC. Being loyal to a party or group does not mean you are a fascist, of which I am not.<

I don't know if you sincerely want to know....so I'll go slow.... I have links to reliable sources to back up everything....just ask and I will provide them. According to factcheck.org, and everything I know to be true, ACORN is not the problem you are thinking it is. Search google news with the combined terms Iglesias and Acorn ...he's the former New Mexico US Atty fired for not prosecuting non-existing voter fraud in 2006....consider, in that context, why there would be such loud noises being aimed again, at Acorn.

In 1934 twice winner of the medal of honor, USMC Major Gen. Smedley Butler alerted a congressional committee of a coup plotter inviting him to lead an overthrow of the US government manned by "bonus army" WWI veterans and backed by some of the wealthiest men in the US. Butler was mocked, especially by Time magazine, but this is in it's pages:

But less than three months later:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,754551-3,00.html
Monday, Feb. 25, 1935
Also last week the House Committee on Un-American Activities purported to report that a two-month investigation had convinced it that General Butler's story of a Fascist march on Washington was alarmingly true.

Links to Histroy Channel video of 1934 "Business Plot" investigation:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=In+Search+of+History+-+The+Plot+to+Overthrow+FDR+-+History+Channel&btnG=Search

John McCloy "served" nine US presidents. In 1950, in his position as governor of occupied Germany, under the supervison of Averill Harriman, McCloy, citing threats on his life, commuted the sentences of the dozen primary Nazi industrialists, before any had completed even half of their sentences. Alfried Krupp, seven years later, was described as possibly the wealthiest man in the world, and Krupp and the others freed by McCloy were reported to hold a monopoly on the European steel industry. Eleanor Roosevelt wrote to ask McCloy, "why are you freeing all the Nazis?"

In 1945, the US military captured the Nazi easter front spy chief, Reinhard Gehlen, and after interrogating him, funded him with millions of dollars to set up the Gehlen Organization, staffed by his fellow Nazi intelligence operatives, and then installed Gehlen and company as the new West German interior and foreign intelligence service, which it still is to the present.

Samuel Frazier Pryor, a Harriman partner and operations mgr., and later president of Remington Arms/UMC Cartridge, was a founding director of Union Banking Corp (UBC)...which was seized by the US Alien property custodian in 1942 for doing business with enemy Nazi Germany:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

Pryor purchased Jupiter Island in Hobe Sound, FL, about 1930, and sold lots to the wealthiest and most influential families in the US. He sold Remington in 1934 to his Jupiter Island neighbor, Walter S. Carpenter, the first non-Du Pont to be president of that company. The Du Pont brothers were named as financiers of Smedley Butler's 1934 coup. Dupont corp. and Standard Oil of NJ were found to be trading with the enemy through most, if not all of WWII. William S. Farish, president of ESSO NJ, conceded to this charge, in hearings held in 1942 by US Asst. Atty. Gen. Thurmond Arnold. DuPont Corp. traded technical info with IG Farben until "January, 1945", according to this source: "so that in this regard, no secrets would exist between the United States and Germany".

Pryor's son, Sam Pryor Jr., was 1940 republican presidential candidate, Wendell Willkie's eastern campaign manager. Young Pryor flew, in his private plane, a US oilman who he knew to be a Nazi agent, to meet Willkie in his Indiana hometown to discuss contributing large sums to Willkie's campaign.

Permalink

British spymaster, Stephenson, aka "Intrepid", chief of WWII espionage in the western hemisphere, admitted to "taking out" William Rhodes Davis, in 1941. Davis was the grandfather of California's Gray Davis, but the media has delayed reporting this.

O. John Rogge, US Asst. Atty. Gen, interrogated Goering and Ribbentrop on the details of Americans collaborating with the Nazis, and he returned to the US with his report, but was fired by Atty Gen., Tom Clark, father of Ramsey Clark, in 1946, for disclosing details about Davis to poli sci students at Swarthmore college. Rogge finally published his "Nazi Report", in 1961.

Sam Pryor Jr. gave five acres of his 100 acres, oceanfront Hana, HI estate, to his lifelong friend, and Goering medal awardee, Charles A. Lindbergh. Pryor and Lindbergh are buried, "yards apart", in a small Hana chruch cemetery, in graves on land the two men selected, cleared and designed for themselves. Ann Morrow Lindbergh chose not to be buried there, and years later, disclaimed the pro Nazi book ''The Wave of the Future.'' she had written in support of her husband, Charles political leanings....

Much more if you are interested, especially the prominent fascists of our current era!

 

 

 

 

Ed LeFevre (angry curious Sort)
3:19am • #48
217,869 Points 31 Featured Posts Outside Blog

My mama always said if you don't have anything nice to say than just don't say it. *silence*

Nice post !

8:16am • #49
237,355 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Missy - This seemed to hit a nerve.  I'm just so curous about why the media thinks it's ok to have $200 million in a campain fund that is unaccounted for. If that happened in the bank account of any CEO he would be in front of every congressional hearing you could imagine.

2:47pm • #50
OCT
21
2008

 

Missy, against this backdrop... the current circumstances of the majority of the American people:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/... Currents and Undercurrents: Changes in the Distribution of Wealth, 1989–2004 (a new triennial, SCF, Fed Reserve "Study of Conusmer Finances...will be released shortly after the election...sure to document, even further wealth concentration into the hands of the top ten percent.)

January 30, 2006
Abstract

This paper considers changes in the distribution of the wealth of U.S. families over the 1989–2004 period using data from the Survey of Consumer Finances (SCF). Real net worth grew broadly over this period. At the same time, there are indications that wealth became more concentrated, but the result does not hold unambiguously across a set of plausible measures. For example, the Gini coefficient shows significant increases in the concentration of wealth from 1989 to 2004, but the wealth share of the wealthiest one percent of families did not change significantly. Graphical analysis suggests that there was a shift in favor of the top of the distribution, while for the broad middle of the distribution increases were about in proportion to earlier wealth. Within this period, there are other interesting patterns. For example, from 1992 to 2004 the wealth share of the least wealthy half of the population fell significantly to 2.5 percent of total wealth....

page 27

...Ownership shares. For some assets, the distributions of the amounts held are far more disproportionate than the differences in ownership rates. MOST STRIKING is the 62.3 percent share of business assets OWNED BY THE WEALTHIEST 1 percent of the wealth distribution in 2004 (table 11a); the NEXT-WEALTHIEST 4 percent OWNED ANOTHER 22.4 percent of the total. Other key items subject to capital gains also show strong disproportions: THE WEALTHIEST 5 PERCENT OF FAMILIES OWNED 61.9 percent of residential real estate other than principal residences, 71.7 percent of nonresidential real estate, and 65.9 PERCENT OF DIRECTLY- AND INDIRECTLY HELD STOCKS. For bonds, 93.7 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL WERE HELD BY THIS GROUP.... 

Why on earth would Congress put the U.S. public behind these bondholders? ...

Click the link above and read Dr. Hussman's 9/22/08 alert to the congress. He told our elected officials that a bailout would transfer wealth from the taxpayers to the bondholders at risk holding the IOU's of the distressed financial corps, but they did the bailout, anyway, Missy.

Are you even aware that your premise for your blog post is classic , 

petite bourgeoisie

...and that all you're doing is "carrying water" for the agenda of the

haute bourgeoisie

your wrote this:

"...Do I see the United States of America slipping into a socialistic society where we expect the government to take care of us from the cradle to the grave?  YES. 

 It is not the government's responsibility to do this. It should be a voluntary decision from our churches,  synagogues, non-profits and us as individuals."

...While, against this backdrop, as the required two thirds of the states were ratifying the constitutional amendment, legalizing income and inheritance taxes, because of the populist reaction after this was written, , describing conditions like these:

Upton Sinclair | The Brass Check | Journalism

...and it seems uncannily similar to the attitude I pick up from reading your blog post:

PLANKS COLONEL FORGOT; Points from Belgian Laborites and Our Farmers&#...
J.C.H.
August 16, 1912, Friday

It is rather late to supply any omissions in the platform of the Bull Moose Party, which came very near incorporating all the planks of all the other radical platforms that have been adopted in this country. It is not too late, however, to note for future reference some of the things that escaped....

....There is a striking similarity between the platform of the Bull Moose Party and the "programme" of the Labor Party of Belgium, which is the outgrwoth of the Socialistic teachings that have influenced the public thought of that country. For example: The Bull Moose party "pledges itself to the task of securing equal suffrage to men and women alike." The Belgians demand "universal suffrage."

The Bull Moose Party urges "the initiative, referendum, and recall." The Belgians demand "direct legislation by the people," that is to say, "popular sanction and initiative in legislative matters."

The Bull Moose Party is committed to "one day's rest in seven for all wage workers." The Belgians demand " a rest of one day in each week," and would forbid employers "to cause work to be done on more than six days out of seven."

The Bull Moose Party demands "the abolition of the convict contract labor system." The Belgians insist upon "the regulation of convist labor, so as to put an end to the competition now made with free labor."

The whole platform of the Bull Moose party does not appear, however, in that document itself, but is to be found only by a system of collateral reading, the text book of the party being Mr. Roosevelt's "confession of the faith," as set forth to the extent of something like twenty thousand words in "the greatest effort of his life," the same being the claim for it by himself before its delivery.

Mr. Roosevelt holds that "the premature employment of children should be prohibited." The Belgians demand "the abolition of work for children below 12 years of age."

Mr. Roosevelt would prohibit "any employment of women in such trades (manufacturing, commercial, or other trades in which they would be required to stand constantly) for a period of at least eight weeks at time of childbirth."

The Belgians would abolish the employment of women in all industries in which their employment would be incompatible with morality and health."

These things are called Socialism in Belgium; in the United States they known in the language of the Bull Moose people as "social and industrial justice."

The Bull Moose Party is the true party of Socialism in the United States. ...


....The people were not fooled by the Farmer's Alliance, by the Greenback Pary, by the Populists, by the Socialists, and they will not be fooled now by the Bull Moose Party, which has worked into it's declaration of principles every cranky notion, every plausible theory, every bait to catch voters, not for the benefit of the people, but for the success of an unworthy cause- the elevation of Mr. Roosevelt to the office of the President, which he solemnly resolved,... he would not again aspire to, and which he filled for seven long and weary years, to the injury of the country..."

Missy, would you describe the platform positions listed above as "radical" or "socialistic"?

Missy, if you are correct, why would so much "pushback" be needed in the following instance, why such hugely financed and mobilized smear campaigns, against something you believe is so negative?:

Monthly Review May 2002 Robert W. McChesney and Ben Scott

San Diego Reader | The Rise and Fall of the Copley Press

 CJR, Sept/Oct 92"At dinner that night he queried the paper's political editor, Kyle Palmer. "Turner, forget it," Palmer replied. "We don't go in for that kind of crap that you have back in New York -- of being obliged to print both sides."

What if "the problem", Missy...isn't the threat of "Socialism"....what if it is your political beliefs that are defending the indefensible.... enabling the biggest problem, the iron fisted grip on the politics and wealth of the country by the top few percent. Isn't it up to the majority of the voters, especially if the status quo is  still, 71 years later, essentially the same as they were described here;

Thirteen Families - TIME

....to decide how it will be....just as they decided in 1913 to levy an income tax on the few with income above $4000, when an average household annual income was $800/year?

What really I can't figure out, is, with a proven trend of chronic, yet growing state of wealth inequity, who you expect your customers, going forward, will be? Where will they come from with tightening loan eligibility criteria, higher minimum downpayments, and a trend, siince the 1980's, of inflation adjusted, lower real income?

Ed Lefevre (angry curious sort)
12:15am • #51

Hey Missy. Good ideas in the hands of bad people is not helpful. Likewise, good people can take a bad idea and make it work. We need a simple solution, a flat 10% tax for every person and every business. No loopholes no exceptions no IRS. It would resolve nearly everyproblem we have as a nation. Ok I am now stepping down from my soapbox. Thanks for sharing & Greetings from Paradise.

Realtor Greg Gorman & Team Paradise Logo

12:28am • #52

Greg, if your proposal became the law, you would have even less potential customers than you presently have. What is with most of activerain posters.....in every discussion I have read? ONLY progressive taxation, as was instituted in 1913, has shown a result of the lessening of the concentratiton of wealth. This means doing what was done in 1913....congress instituted...to begin with, an income tax on annual income above $4000....and nothing on income below $4000. Greg, as of 2004 (did you read the Fed SCF study results from 2004, at the top of my last post???) the top ten percent of the US popilation owned 70 percent of all wealth.

The bottom 50 percent owned 2-1/2 percent of all of the wealth, and the trend was that their share was declining, while the share of the top ten percent was rising....since the 1980's. The bottom 50 percent also owed 46 percent of outstanding US credit card and installment loan debt...

Greg, how could a ten percent, flat tax on everybody, regardless of wealth and income, do anything to reverse a trend toward a result where the bottom 50 percent are entirely impoversihed, and the top ten percent own 80 percent of all wealth?

Are you advocating for the narrowing of the numbers of consumers who are able to buy anything but food, fuel, toilet paper, ten years old cars, thrift store clothes,  and low rent housing?

Do you offer any alternative to distributing wealth less unequally, besides your "anybody can better themselves", platitudes? This is today's news....time to reconsider your views...they aren't relevant...

Tuesday October 21, 4:22 am ET
By Emma Vandore, AP Business Writer

30-nation study shows income inequality and poverty rising in US and wealthy countries

"....The United States has the highest inequality and poverty in the OECD after Mexico and Turkey, and the gap has increased rapidly since 2000, the report said. Meanwhile France has seen inequalities fall in the past 20 years as poorer workers are better paid.

At the same time, retiree poverty has fallen in many countries, the report said..."

Ed Lefevre (angry curious sort)
5:40am • #53
123,195 Points

Words are a wonderful thing.  They are used to persuade, give confidence, sway ones thinking, and more.  If we rely completely on the spoken or written word we can fall into some serious pitfalls.  It is imperative that we maintain a strong system of "checks and balances" in our government structure and elect local officials who will carry out the will of the people.  Unfortunately too many that we've sent to represent us fail miserably; instead they represent their personal interests and work hard to get re-elected.

8:04am • #54
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Ed, I will respond but I am weeding through all your links.

9:59am • #55
OCT
22
2008

we are all capable of being the frog that sits in the boiling water getting hotter and hotter, until it is too late to reverse the trends affecting our nation. 

Good evening Missy,

It's sad to see what has happened to our once great nation.  Please check your email in the morning.

Respectfully,

Bruce

 

Not Yet Licensed
1:15am • #56
OCT
25
2008
131,462 Points 46 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Missy: Thanks for providing some outtstanding early Saturday morning reading. I didn't even break for a second mug of tea:-)

10:40am • #57

Ed references an income inequality study that says the rich get richer and the poor, well, don't.  What these studies do is look at averages, and draw conclusions about data. 

What these studies fail to do is remember what the data represents- people.  If they tracked the individual incomes of PEOPLE rather than looking at averages derived from data, they would see that people in our country tend to move up the income ladder.  The Treasury Department did a study of nearly 100,000 income tax returns for the same people over a decade and found a majority moved up in income ladder and became more wealthy than they were at the start of the study.  Read about it here: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010855

This whole idea of the rich getting richer at the expense of someone else is propaganda.  How many of us are less wealthy than we were ten years ago?  Twenty?  Think of the people you know.  How many of them have remained at the exact same, or lower, level of income and wealth over the past decade or two?  Sure, some will have experieced decline.  Most will not.  Sure, there are year to year fluctuations for some- how many of us are making more than we were three years ago?  The point is that most individuals gain over time and move from one income group to a higher one. 

And quite honestly, who said anyone is entitled to make more money each and every year?  Should we not be more concerned with whether or not more value is being created rather than whether we're getting larger stacks of money?  Money is simply the by-product of value creation.  Far too much focus is placed on the side effect rather than the cause.  If we focused as a society on providing value to one another rather than on how much we can get from each other, we'd all be better off- poor and rich alike. 

Instead we continue to engage in this idiotic notion that people can only prosper at someone else's expense, and that the government must step in and "set things right." 

Who are they to decide that for us?  Are we children in need of a playground monitor to keep us from getting our feelings hurt at the swingset?  Are we sheep to be herded about?  I am not.  I do not believe our country was founded on the principle that the sheep must be protected from the wolf by a benevolent shepherd intent on fleecing them.  It was founded with the ideal that people have the right to be free to pursue happiness.  It said nothing about being guaranteed happiness.  And it most certainly was not on the principle that the government would decide who was too happy and who needed some perking up.

For an excellent treatise on how this flawed thinking is destroying us, read Killing Sacred Cows by Garrett Gunderson (www.KillingSacredCows.com). 

3:17pm • #58
623,214 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Charter Lending- This is an excellent comment. Why should anyone tell me how much money I can make and how much is too much? If I choose to look for entrepreneur ideas that are capitalistic and I make money, does that make me a bad person? Does that mean that I have to give more to others who choose to be poor? You see, I have been both. I was raised in poverty, drugs, gangs and all that. I have seen things most people will never see and felt things most people will never see yet I CHOSE NOT to be trapped in that! I did not graduate from high school (this is Katerina) and yet now I make over the amount that Obama calls 'rich' and yet I still struggle, paying for college educations and expenses for business, etc. So because I chose NOT to stay downtrodden and impoverished I should pay for those who won't make a choice to get better? That is a socialist viewpoint. I don't think it is fair, I pay 10% tithing to a church that is ALWAYS the FIRST to be at any disaster no matter how we are shunned and attacked. So I don't take kindly to that being rich is bad.

I can go on and on- My family was very wealthy in Latvia- yet Stalin and Roosevelt decided that we were rich and therefore did not deserve our land or our businesses. You should see our properties now, great way Communism takes care of your property! Worse than slum lords, oh excuse me, they were the slum lords! My family had to flee from being killed by Stalin's croanies- because all rich people should die- and hide in Germany in a US relocation camp, that was horrid too, and they were starving, to come here and start all over again from nothing and with nothing, to becoming successful business people again which did not happen for most in my family. But I was determined to NOT allow that to stop me from living the good life and helping others to do so.

The best thing anyone can do if they think that the poor can not do anything is to watch my favorite movie, The Pursuit of Happiness! Really watch it. If someone had just given Chris a handout, he never would be where he is today!  Katerina

6:53pm • #59
623,214 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

ED- my customers will be and will continue to be:

Cash buyers from the North that are in what you call 'wealthy' bunch.

People who work and save to put 20% and 30 % down.

Agents who want to hire me to coach them to be their best in good and bad markets.

Millionaires who are looking to invest their money in the great houses and weather we have in Florida.

Aeronautical people who enjoy flying their planes from their own backyards.

Boaters who love to sail from docks in South Florida who usually pay all cash.

Golfers who want to live year round in golfers' paradise, Florida.

Equestrian families and dressage horse owners looking for multiple residences to set up for their grooms and vets, and caretakers.

Yes, we have a world of abundance in our beautiful state of Florida.

Where by the way, we have NO state Income Tax

NO extra tax on the rich so businesses can make money and provide jobs

We have NO sales tax on food

We have health insurance as low as $15 per family for all children under 19.

We have a balanced budget!

Imagine that! It can be done!

Now contrast that to California- The second highest taxing state in the US and the largest deficit out of all the states and even if you sneeze, you will get taxed. They tax everything there, but you see, no matter how much they collect. they still spend more. Their legislature needs to visit Florida! Katerina

 

7:01pm • #60
OCT
26
2008
400,729 Points 59 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi Missy!  AWESOME post and a great debate here!  I have solved the problem--now I just have to find a way to implement it!  Let's just divide the country in half--those who want a democracy live in one half of the country and those who want communism, the other!  We're certainly moving in that direction and it has become more clear with this election that it doesn't matter what your personal thoughts are, more and more people vote with their party despite the blatant contrasts to their litmus tests.  It is a sad commentary I'm afraid!

Debe in Charlotte

11:32pm • #61
OCT
27
2008

"We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." -Winston Churchill

8:51am • #62
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Charter Lending, I love this quote. Winston Churchhill was a wise man.

9:59am • #63

He certainly was, Missy.  Churchill saw socialism/communism for what it was- an assault on human dignity.  Our own FDR was a great admirer of Stalin- referred to him as Uncle Joe- and the fifty year long Cold War was but one result of that misstep. 

Socialism and Communism believe that THINGS have intrinsic value, not people, and that the government can set the price.  The truth is things have no intrinsic value- they are only worth what PEOPLE agree between each other that they are worth.  Our industry certainly has plenty of proof of that.

 

10:11am • #64

Charter Lending....informed reaction to your WSJ interpretation of US Treasury income study:

http://www.econweekly.com/2007/12/income-mobility-in-us.html

"The poorest households have a 42 percent chance of staying in their original group; no other group displays such a degree of immobility, except the very richest. In the second richest group, 70 percent of households stay put or move up; 69 percent of households in the top group stays on top....

....The US is a society of extreme inequality – there isn’t much argument about this. Inequality is less of a problem, however, if people have a chance of becoming significantly wealthier regardless of how poor they are. Inequality reflects the extreme rewards to success; income mobility measures the opportunities to achieve that success.

Unfortunately, my impression is that large income gains are less likely than the WSJ believes. Over the next ten-year period, I would expect most households to experience changes of plus or minus $10,000 – clearly not enough to climb the income ladder....

Comment: You should also look at the fact that the Treasury study didn't take into account age.

In other words, much of the move in income from first quintile to second quintile over the period in question simply reflects college students -- who are in the lowest quintile while in college -- graduating and starting careers.

Similarly, the drop in the income of the fourth quintile probably reflects people reaching retirement age, at which point their income drops off.

The only way to really study social mobility
is to track a the quintiles of a generation, rather than simply quintiles over time. What matters is economic status among the peers of the same generation."

Income is not entrenched wealth. The Fed's triennial SCF "Study if Consumer Finances" is unique....there is no other wealth distribution study as comprehensive or as generally accepted for it's reliability by the vast majority of economists:

Wealth in America: Trends in Wealth Inequality - Page 25

by Lisa A. Keister - Business & Economics - 2000 - 307 pages

First, the SCF has the greatest breadth of coverage over time. The Federal Reserve
Board first administered the SCF in 1960 and ...

MIssy, the 2007 income demographics for the zip code where your office is located, are certainly not typical, you may be overly influenced by your anecdotal experience:

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/DemographicsSE.aspx?LID=15942585&CID=&ItemIndex=&NewItemIndex=&SearchResultID=&ResultCount=&FilteredSearchID=&FilteredResultCount=&PageNumber=&PageSize=&RecentlyViewed=&PopupView=&PinProfileView=&NoBrandingView=&ID=&MatchedKeywords=&PgCxtGuid=6bce9ecf-9b7e-4324-a6f9-fef1b1268308&PgCxtFLKey=&PgCxtCurFLKey=Profile&PgCxtDir=Lateral

Here is a link to income demographics of another midwestern college town, Muncie, IN, aka "Middletown", the most studied and documented city in the country in the last 85 years. It seems Muncie has no affluent middle class...

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/DemographicsSE.aspx?LID=15699207&CID=&ItemIndex=&NewItemIndex=&SearchResultID=&ResultCount=&FilteredSearchID=&FilteredResultCount=&PageNumber=&PageSize=&RecentlyViewed=&PopupView=&PinProfileView=&NoBrandingView=&ID=&MatchedKeywords=&PgCxtGuid=4189a542-c7ca-4139-8711-aea158d5ede7&PgCxtFLKey=&PgCxtCurFLKey=Profile&PgCxtDir=Lateral

Middletown, Teetering On the Divide - washingtonpost.com

MUNCIE, Ind. In the 1920s, two amateur sociologists went searching for a city that was singularly

 

Ed Lefevre (angry curious sort)
11:17am • #65
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Well thank you, Ed. I guess as my wealth gets taken away, and redistributed, I can move to Muncie, Indiana and live. Actually being raised in Paducah,Ky, I'll just go home, the cost of living is a lot less in Ky than Michigan.

Actually where the zip code is for my office is less than a few blocks from U of M. Stadium and Arena, we are surrounded by student housing. Yes, I know Ann Arbor is expensive compared to the rest of the country, the only people that move here from out of state that aren't sticker shocked are East and West Coast people.

It's the property taxes, income tax, and the cost of land that is high.  That's why these studies are difficult. My brother who lives in Paducah, has tons more money than I do. Why?  The cost of living, there 3600 s.f. house is under 200K, my 2800 s.f. house was worth 450K.  Of course his values have stayed steady, whereas mine due to the Big 3 has gone down 100K the last few years.

We need more business to move to Michigan, you know what, it is hard. Our small business TAX is keeping them away. The PROPERTY tax on commercial is another reason. Why move here, when can have no union wages and less tax down South, were Nissan just built a big plant in Nashville.

2:27pm • #66
OCT
28
2008

Nice censorship! Now who's the communist? Weak.

LaughingLib
4:21pm • #68
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

LaughingLib, if you want to contribute to the discusssion you  can. However, I will not accept insults on my blog. We  can debate and disagree on the issues, but you comment was personal and insulting. So I deleted it. The first comment I have ever deleted but it was a personal insult.

4:51pm • #69

A group of people with varying opinions seem to be having a discussion of ideas amongst themselves here without being insulting to each other.  I'd been lurking around here reading the different points of view and the links to articles the bloggers provided with great interest until I saw a post by "LaughingLib" that simply insulted the comments of some of the participants as well as their appearance.  I thought for a moment that I had stumbled upon a place where people could discuss ideas without insulting each other.  I guess I was wrong.  Now I see LaughingLib is back and complaining that his wise ass insult was edited.  Since he added nothing to the discussion, I don't see why he's crying about being "censored" by whoever the moderator is.  Good riddance.

One of the things I am most frustrated about with all this red/blue/socialist/patriot/warmonger/fatcat/liberal name calling that American politics has become is how intolerant all sides are of views that differ from their own.  This is true whether you look at the left, the right, or the center.  I am especially frustrated at how my friends on the left side who ridicule the right for their lack of tolerance are so intolerant of anything but our own world view.  Their minds are no more open than the far right they ridicule for closed-mindedness.  My conservative friends are actually far more tolerant than most of my fellow liberal friends.  A fact my liberal friends refuse to believe and my conservative ones find amusing.  I find it appalling.  It is really possible to disagree without being disagreeable.  Try it.  You may find the other side has some valid points that you in your omniscience may have failed to consider.  The truth is, neither left nor right has a monopoly on virtue and truth.

If all you can bring to a discussion are insults and bile, please don't participate.  There is already enough of that in our public discourse.  Our leaders on both sides of the aisle have let us down for decades, and we have let them do it by allowing public discussion to be reduced to petty name calling and superficial insults like LaughingLib's comments.  We're all going to have to work together if we're going to leave a better world for our children and our fellow citizens of the world.  Openly sharing our views with each other without counterproductive asinine remarks is a good way to start.

Go ahead and flame me if you like LaughingLib.  You may be intolerant of other people's views.  I am not.

Tolerant Open-minded Lib
5:05pm • #70
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Tolerant Open-minded Lib, Thanks I couldn't have said it better. You are right both sides of the aisle have left us discouraged over the last many years. We do have a lot to learn from one another, yes we may disagree but it can be respectful. That is why I deleted LaughingLib's comment.

Heck, even the Congress and Senate, address each other as the "Gentleman from____"

Thanks for your wise comment, you must have read my comment that said, I am voting for a Democratic Board in my Township.

6:28pm • #71
OCT
29
2008
Localism Sponsor

True , but sad.  When are we as Americans going to wake up and see what is around us!

8:33am • #72

Seriously?!

So it's okay to call people communists and socialists (lables that destroyed peoples lives, or worse, in the past), but a little jab about someones glasses resembling a certain person's gets people hot under the collar?

The OP is incendiary, and if you don't intended to raise the ire of those who disagree with a post like that then it is best if you refrain from name calling to begin with.

"Heck, even the Congress and Senate, address each other as the "Gentleman from____"" 

So it should be okay if they changed this to "the Communist from_____?"

And for the record, I came to this site because I found the real estate discussion to be insightful. Little did I know I was a few clicks away from being referred to as a communist.

LaughingLib
9:17am • #73
OCT
30
2008
152,346 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

isn't funny how some people get so crazed when it comes to politics and religion ?

everyone is entitled to their own opinion especially on your own blog!  you really don't have to agree with what everyone has posted.

talk about the blog with a lot of spunk!  this post sure has it   !!

1:20am • #74
152,346 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

all yeah... and there was one e-mail I would like to add for the John McCain haters.

Missy feel free to delete my comment if you feel like I am hi-jacking your post :)

Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.
Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.
When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.
I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I 've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.
At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient needed money more.
I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

1:23am • #75
NOV
05
2008

Welcome to the future, comrades. Let's hope you can learn to work towards progress instead of stifling it.

LaughingLib
2:25pm • #77
548,810 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

laughingLib, it is an unfortunate comment you make here. Most folks when they win handle it with grace and humility not try to rub it in. The only progress that will be throttled will be when people like you continue to spew uncalled for remarks against people who took their liberty and voted for a different candidate.

3:41pm • #78

Leave a response…



(optional)
What does the graphic say?
 
Missy_at_shelby_townshipbw2 Ambassador_large

Missy Caulk-Ann Arbor- Realtor(R)- Ann Arbor Real Estate

Ann Arbor, MI

More about me…

Keller Williams-Ann Arbor

Address: Ann Arbor, Saline, Dexter, Chelsea, Milan, Whitmore Lake, Ypsilanti, Manchester, Washtenaw County, Ann Arbor, MI, 48104

Office Phone: (734) 821-0757

Cell Phone: (734) 216-2822

Email Me

A blog about real estate in Ann Arbor, Michigan and the surrounding area's of Saline, Dexter, Chelsea and Ypsilanti.

Subscribe to Ann Arbor and Saline Michigan Real Estate by Email Subscribe in a reader View my FriendFeed Real Estate Blogs - Blog Catalog Blog DirectoryBlogarama - The Blog Directory
Visit Twitterqueens
AgentGenius

Promote Your Page Too

Get great free widgets at Widgetbox! View Missy Caulk's profile on LinkedIn



Links

Archives

RSS 2.0 Feed for this blog

Find MI real estate agents and Ann Arbor real estate on ActiveRain.