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E-Pro is a waste of a designation

The E-Pro designation is a complete waste of money.

Yeah, I just went there. For many agents, the E-Pro designation is an “opportunity” to learn about all of the ‘new’ tools available to agents. And sure it does live up to the promise of a bunch of new tools, but it is a waste of money.

Think about it, you are on ActiveRain networking with some of the top agents in the Country. You can search blogs for many great new tools, and often find these things before anyone ever has a clue about them:

Example: home411.com. I was one of the first agents to sign up for a free 1-800 number.

Point2 agent has been out for 5 years. It was free for the last number of years (still free for 6 months). Point2 is one of the greatest tools available to agents. In my opinion ActiveRain has far more content and tools than the E-Pro classes could ever have.

I guess I feel like E-Pro fails to deliver on the cost of the designation. What good is a tool chest of websites and domain names if no one knows how or what to do with them? They need to update the classes and tools for today's market.

Maybe I am way off track, but I feel there could be substantially more substance than there is.

Why do you feel the designation is valuable or invaluable? Any other thoughts?

Nick Vanassche
Sea Glass Properties

Posted by Nick Van Assche on 12/01/2008 11:28 AM

Comments (123)

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123 Comments on E-Pro is a waste of a designation

NOV

2008

I have been contemplating going to one of the initial classes to see what I thought about it as I like to try to keep up with all of the technology available, but based on your commentary, maybe not.

I'll park here and see what others have to say.

I received my e- pro designation about 3 years ago... I thought I learned something from it, but now after learning so much from Active Rain, I realize that it was just the tip of the iceberg

I have the e-PRO designation. I had the same feelings as you before I got it.

The main reason I got it was for the public. I know I am computer literate, but how does the public know that?

Nick~ When I took e-pro many years ago, I thought then that it was worth it. Now that I have been active on active rain for the past 9 months, I realize we learn so much more in here than any class out there!

Nick... Thank you for this heads up. I was thinking about taking the E-pro designation.. I figure all designations are good.. right? But from what you told me, I won't learn that much. I think you told me more in your blog.. than what I would have walked away from the class with.

valerie osterhoudt

'What good is a tool chest......if no one knows how or what to do with [the tools]'?

Nick -- That is a great point. In the past, there was a lack of tools in the marketplace. Now....we have several variations of the same tool. Here's the problem. We don't have consistent and thorough education on how to use the tools.

I can't speak to e-Pro. However, my CRS and ABR Designations really helped me to look at this business AS A BUSINESS and how to efficiently work with first time home buyers.

The letters haven't meant as much to me as the knowledge.

I would recommend to anyone Designation classes that offer the WHAT and HOW on real estate LEAD GENERATION, CLIENT SERVICING and CONTRACT-TO-CLOSE procedures/strategies.

Good Post Nick!

You are probably in the minority just as the people who come here are in the minority. 95% of people if not more would not know the material that is presented in the e-Pro classes before taking it. Personally I finished the entire course in less than 2 hours including my lunch break. Does that mean I didnt learn anything?

Viewed through the eyes of your customers, what value does any designation bring? Apparently, not much.

What clients are looking for in agents has very little to do with the alphabet soup after your name. The designations seem to be more of a way for agents to keep score with each other than with doing anything for a client.

Learn your craft and trade, operate at the top of your game, and the "soup" won't mean a thing.

This is heresy to some in the profession. But its the relationship with your clients that really matters.

My 2c.

I've wondered about E-Pro. I'm interested to see what everyone else says.

I guess I'm a sucker....I'm nearing the end of my ePRO modules and I'm learning alot. I feel it was money well spent. I've been somewhat active here on activerain since the spring, and I recently set up a websiite on point2. But I find pieces of information and websites from the ePRO modules that I did not know about, and have already used. I'm a new agent...maybe that's part of the difference.

The E-Pro designation is a complete waste of money.

Good evening Nick,

I respectfully disagree. I've noticed that some of my top producting clients are e-PROs. There is often a correlation between good training and production. ActiveRain is an outstanding source of information for agents, but it's not structured. Some people learn better with structure.

Cordially,

Bruce

I took the e-Pro designation when it was first offered, barely missing the elite e-Pro 500. The course is good for rank beginners, but doesn't seem to have been updated in a while. Have the course writers discovered social media yet?

As to the public's view of designations, I think they could care less, and i think it is pretentious on the part of real estate practitioners to use half a dozen groups of letters after their names. I have pared my list down to CRS, since it is the only one I really had to work for.

DEC

2008

I understand your doubts;however, my e-PRO designation has proven to be one of the best things I have done for my business.

Nick... Glad to see this became a feature blog.. I believe this deserved it.. very informative.

valerie osterhoudt

Hi Nick, I looked into e-Pro a couple of years ago and decided it wasn't "advanced" enough for what I wanted to know as I had already been involved with Point2 and ActiveRain among other things. Unless you are a newcomer to the possibilities the Internet offers, I'm afraid it could be a disappointing experience.

IF one is fairly new to the internet, and NOT involved in AR, then I can see why it might be worthwhile. Me, I got it for the designation a few years ago, but I have NEVER had even one person mention the designatiopn- so for me it was a waste of money. I've always said that the only designation the average person understands or cares about is BROKER.

I took the e-PRO course a few years ago and, at the time, it was definitely worth it. Through being an e-PRO, I was introduced to e-PROTalk and REALTalk, and that led to my introduction to ActiveRain. If for nothing else, it was worth that journey.

To be fair to anyone contemplating taking the course, if you just rush through it, to get the designation as quickly as possible, you'll probably miss a lot of the value. Take your time to check out the links. That's where you find many valuable sites and technical tools. Sure, most, and probably more, of that information is on AR, but it may be harder to find, especially if you don't know what you're looking for.

I agree with you to a certain extent. I breezed through the class yet it reminded me about the different levels of communication our customers may want or need. Truthffully, it was very basic for those not technically challenged

Thanks for this post. I have been thinking about taking the ePro class this winter, but I'm still unsure if it is worth the money. I will be interested in the comments to follow.

I feel the e-Pro is just more of the ABC's people want after their name. The true showing on whether someone is an e-Pro is how much can you find them on the internet. If they're all over the place, you know they know what they're doing. If you can't find someone, they don't have a clue...

Nick,

I too had been considering this designation but have been learning oodles from AR...I think I would rather play in the rain than in alaphabet soup...

I have wondered if it is worth it. I came from the tech field before real estate, so far real estate has not challenged me yet with technology. Thanks for the hint I will just let the epro thing slide

I signed up and paid for the designation, Nick, but realized my tech usage was beyond what they teach. 'Just couldn't motivate myself to spend the time, so alas... never finished. It would have been so easy to earn the designation but I didn't feel the time necessary to do so was justified. That being said, it is all valuable information, and e-Pro should be pursued by someone who's feeling a little lost in the technology area of their business.

I went to the "intro" class and picked up some tips, but I agree that just between A/R and P2 you can get up to speed quickly and invest that money in building your Web presence instead. But if you are totaly new to all this ePro may be a fast track to getting your business on line. As for the "designation", showing your clients what you actually do on the Web is better than showing them a logo that says you are capable of doing it. That said I invested in a CRS designation as soon as I qualified and found it to be money well spent.

Nick are you an E-Pro? If you are I dont think that you would say that its a waste of time and money! You would know about Realtown.com & E-Pro Talk network benefits, their training and E-Pro upgrade training being offered. It doesnt sound like if you are an E-Pro that you are plugged into any of their resources for you to use?

For most of first-time realtors the E-Pro course is a wonderful way for realtors with little or no technology background or skills to come up to speed in Internet technology, MLS and use of websites which is critical in being a realtor today. You have plenty of skills having used P2A websites and Active Rain of course not to say that your websites cant be improved- they certainly can. If an E-Pro designation for you can be better used getting another designation go right ahead.

I see agents all the time on AR who dont know how to cut and past a javascript for their widgets or insert a pic or a link into their blogs. If youre just trying to get noticed and get a featured blog on AR and piss people off youve succeeded! There's always more to learn about Technology and use of the web so if the E-Pro course is not right for you it is right for 90 to 95% of other realtors!

Anyone else on AR who thinks the E-Pro course is easy then take it and see how you do at https://www.internetcrusade.com/epro/Host.asp?HID=34177 Anyone like Nick who isnt even acting like he's an E-Pro or if he is and isnt proud of it to put it down is the blind leading the blind!

Nick signing up for homes411.com has absolutely nothing to do with being an E-Pro!

In the context of Active Rain members being the choir you're preaching to, I'd agree for the most part. Unfortunately, Active Rain members represent less than 10% of the Realtor populationh.

About 4 years ago, I got my e-pro certification simply because it provided me with the hours I needed to renew my license all in one fell swoop. I remember thinking then that it seemed a little basic, but I figured I was ahead of the curve in terms of what it taught me. I didn't resent it though because I got my CE out of the way and got to call myself an E-pro. The link-building efforts that came with it were a bonus.

So again, for the 10% of the audience that is Active Rain, getting E-pro just to say you're an e-pro will probably do less for you than just being a part of AR. For the other 90% of the Realtor population, it's probably a good way to learn some basics about how to get more efficient and involved in the internet world.

While I believe that we should never stop learning, it has always irritated me that you earn (ie. pay for) a designation and then in most cases, every year you have to pay another fee to keep the designation. Why? Oh, because it's a money-making operation for those that teach the classes and promote designations in general. Obviously you didn't un-learn the information, nor are you expected to take additional classes to maintain your designation. You simple pay large sums of money every year...

I bought into it before I realized that the public doesn't care or even knows what a designation is. No more designations for me!

Good post. I was also thinking of taking this class, but have learned a lot since I joined the great AR network. SO thanks, I think I will pass on this one.

That's interesting. I'm glad to hear your opinion. I think many designations aren't quite worth the time and money, but I guess some sellers like seeing those letters behind your name.

Well I was just about to sign up for that class and now I dont know what to do.... Great post.

Great information. I have been using point2 for years now and have also found more information here in active rain in the past few months than I have every learned from ANY class. Real world experience from those who do shared with me is WAY more helpful that information from teachers who used to be in this business.

When I first acquired my e-Pro designaion I was a relatively new agent - afraid of computers and anything "techy" - but it started me on an educational path that has proved invaluable, not because of the alphabet soup behind my name. I'm thankfull for the designation getting me started on life-time learning and growth as a Realtor. I believe that what our buyers and sellers need to hear and see is that we are always learning - we are changing and growing just as our market does. Some day some of us may look back even at Active Rain and give thanks for the path they started us on.

I don't care about designations. None of my clients know what they mean anyway. I am interested in increasing my knowledge, learning new strategies, tactics and skills that will help me serve my clients and gain marketshare. It seems like most of the classes I've taken have been pretty basic entry level fare. What I really expect from specialist designation course like e-pro, resort specialist or anything else is to be a specialist. When I complete a course and don't feel like I've learned anything substantial besides maybe picking up a few little gems, I don't feel much like a "specialist".

Lahaina Lee

Nick, e-PRO design. lead me to Active Rain. Any knowledge is never wasted. I have closed several trans due to my involvement in the web. I recommend everyone to take the e-PRO class. Just like golf and baseball, you know how to play but always looking to learn that one nugget that will get the hole in one. Lately here on AR all I am seeking is political and cook book recps post, how does that help you in real estate sales?

Very interesting! Yes, I have wondered if they kept up to date. I don't have the designation but my thoughts were very similiar questions to those you raise.

Comments are helpful here.

I agree with Joel above. I think it would worth it for the agents I try to teach some basics to and their eyes fog over. But for the internet savy already there is no value there at @ $350 dollars. At least, thats how I see it. Thats a lot of money in this market. I also do not see the value of the designation when you can just demonstrate your internet savy at the appointment or on the phone call.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

I am a long time e-PRO as well as an e-PRO Instructor. I learn something every time I teach an introductory class plus the interaction with your fellow e-PRO designates is as valuable to me as Active Rain has been.

To clear up a point I saw above; once you earn NAR's e-PRO certification there is no ongoing yearly fee to maintain the certification.

Additionally being part of the referral roster has brought me several valuable referrals which have turned into commission checks.

Finally most states aware CEU credits towards license renewals for completing the e-PRO course. For instance, California give you 12 hours, Georgia 24 hours, Tennessee 19, etc..

If anyone is interested or wants to get started, you get a $25.00 discount if you sign up via my link, http://jimlee.certifiedeprotrainer.com/ . There's a short video on the bottom with Saul Klein talking about the benefits of becoming an e-PRO.

All in all it seems like a pretty good deal to me for $359.00

I have a couple of thoughts on it. First of all, I have "heard" that the more designations you have next to your name, the more you make? Since I am only in my second year, I don't know for myself, but that is one of the reasons I did the e-Pro cert. The other thing I remember thinking while I was getting the designation was "Duh," as in, I already knew most everything on there. So I guess it has it's pluses and minuses.

Either way, you still got a feature out of it, so it couldn't be all bad!!! :) LOL thanks for the post!

Nick, I didn't do E-Pro but I've gotten others. I interview them first. If I'm not going to learn something, get cont. ed. credit and make money - forget it!

Nick - I recently got my e-PRO designation. I learned some things, but I probably do learn more from Active Rain... :)

Thanks for the heads up, Nick. Seems like you paid just to get a list of domains and stuff. Shame they don't spend the time teaching people what to do with it all.

thank goodness finally someone that agrees with me on this one.... we have agents with an e-pro next to their name that know nothing in comparison to those on blog sites and so on.... I keep thinking maybe I should then I say no it would be boring and a waste of time and money - thanks for the run down

Nick,

Please take a look at my blog response=new training. Your blog only confirms what I've thought. I am working on a training program for realtors, and will be announcing it once it is complete.

Nick - I 100% agree with you. I was actually looking forward to getting an e-PRO designation until one of the e-PRO reps came to our local Board of REALTORS® and spoke.

Not only was his presentation full of obsolete information, some of it was just plain wrong. The most precious moment of the whole thing though was that the e-PRO trainer couldn't figure out how to get PowerPoint to work.

I think the e-PRO has an opportunity to be something very special, but right now it is a waste of time and money.

I did get my E-PRO designation, and I did find it informative especially pointing me to realtown, and point2agent's websites. I would like you probably not recommend it as it really does not help your business, but if you like knowledge I did think it did give me a lot of information that I may not have already known.

Nick,

I belive in eduction, I believe the motivated can gain and profit from any real estate class, even E-Pro.

What I don't understand is the designation. Being abale to use the Internet is like being able to use a financial calculator. You're suppose to know it. Maybe we need a new one the coveted "ATWACG" we'll create a great pin and logo, charge a large fee for reviewing a video of you demonstrating you're "Able To Walk And Chew Gum!"

Take every class you can, network with the other participants!

Bill

I think that the E-Pro course could be much more meaningful if it were to be regularly updated. In my opinion, everyone needs to be an E-Pro, whether certified or not. Like most AR readers have said, you get out of it what you put into it, but I agree that this is a very basic course that doesn't have much practical relevance.

Nick,

I am sorry that you didn't get much from epro. I was one on the first people to take it so it has been quite a few years back that I took it so it was benificial to me. I don't know how the class is now but, I learned alot from it and before blogs we did have epro informational emails ect. Well good luck. If want good classes make sure you are taking CRS classes as those are some of the best that I have taken.

I agree 100% with the E-Pro. I got the designation and I also think it is worthless. Do not waste your money and time. I did learn a few things but not enough to justify the money.

I have really enjoyed E-PRO actually. And I have learned a great deal. I originally thought it was a waste of money but I signed up and took ABR class then realized I needed an elective and e-pro was a choice so with the discount I signed up for it. I may feel this way though because the market I work in is very rural and non-computer literate. I have no other way of learning the newest real estate Internet tools than from e-pro. The other agents in my office can barely check their own emails! Plus, my goal is to have as many designations as possible by the time I am 30 so I guess I also enjoyed e-pro for that reason!

Nick... Have to agree with you 100%. I've had the designation for over 2 years, and knew I had been ripped off immediately after I started the course. If you've been on the net any time at all - Realtor or not - you've taught yourself everything and more than what you get from ePro. It would be great to have a designation with substance based on what ePro is supposed to be, But as it is now, it's useless.

Nick - I have heard this from several agents recently. Since I am pretty tech-savvy to begin with and have surrounded myself with like minded indivduals who often tell me about new tools while they're still in beta, I refuse to waste the extra money I could put to better use elsewhere.

Nick... Thanks for sharing this information.. I have P2A and love it... I will have to check out the home411.com

Nick, I love being an e-Pro. I'm a power tech user, so the classes were fairly easy for me. But that is not the point. The point is that my clients can VERIFY that I am internet knowledgable and will be able to take care of their online needs (both buyers and sellers).

Also it gives me a lot of CREDIBILITY, it's better than me just running around saying, "I'm a computer whiz", it's a professional designation that says it for me.

I like being an e-Pro because very FEW agents are, and I can stand head and shoulders above the "average" crowd.

Once an agent sent me a mass (spam) email, and I emailed her back, pointing out a mistake she made, and asking to be removed from her spam list also. She responded by saying, "I'm not very experienced with this online stuff, I'm not an e-Pro like you." My point exactly.

My designation is VERY effective.

BTW, join my NEW group for professionals who work from their home office at http://activerain.com/groups/virtualoffice

Regina P. Brown
Allison James Estates & Homes
www.ReginaBrown.AllisonJamesInc.com

Hi Nick, As to the value of the alphabet soup of initials after our name: Virtually all of the consumer studies rank them at or near the bottom when choosing an agent !

Hi Nick,

GREAT post - thank you - finally somebody said it.

1.) These certs aren't free.

2.) I am not convinced you learn more from a cert than you could simply using AR.

3.) If you get the cert to be part of a referral network - you can also get that through AR.

4.) If you need a cert to "secure" a client then your business may need an overhaul.

While I have enjoyed some of the classes I have taken with CRS, I am questioning whether it makes sense to continue to pay the dues.

Additionally, there seem to be more and mroe of these certs popping up and trying to capitalize on current market conditions - not sure if there is much value in these - just a thought.

I agree with several of the above. I earned/paid for the e-pro designation several years ago..before Active Rain and others. At the time, it was "the thing to do" I remember learning alot but not much really helps now! Thanks Active Rain.

Nick, I haven't personally taken any of the e-pro courses, but can tell you from my experience that I have not met a single 'e-Pro' in my market who knows as much as I do about internet marketing, websites, technology, etc.

Additionally, my belief in the lack of value in the e-Pro designation was further validated recently when I read a post here on AR by an e-Pro 'Real Estate Technology Trainer' about how the iPhone was a terrible choice for Realtors. It was quite clear from his post that he had never laid a single finger on an iPhone and had no idea what he was talking about.

IMO, the designations behind our name mean little or nothing to consumers. What matters to them is that we prove - through our actions, reputations, and results - that we know how to take care of their needs.

I agree, I've looked into it, but for me don't think the education would do much at all for me. It's definitely not worth the cost for a "title." For some agents, and the technologically inept, I'm sure the information is very valuable.

Thank you for your post - this caught my eye! I love new technology and so I had been toying with the idea of getting the designation... but I already have a website I am happy with, and the advertisements for this designation mention a free website. The voice in the back of my mind has kept me from going forward and signing up, and your post has confirmed my beliefs. Thank you for saving me hundreds of dollars and time! I will not be getting this designation, and instead will continue taking my CRS classes. Happy holidays!

Nick, Like Frank said, E-pro led me to active rain,not to mention point2 and several other great resources. It is a GREAT course for people who are not technically savvy and while the course itself cannot transform you overnight, it does give you direction. Not to mention that you can download all the course material to reference later.

Great pieces of information for everyone to use. Great post!

Thank you, someone finally said it is right. I also feel Buyer Broker is the same...it's just a ploy to get you a designation and the substance and content is SOOO basic. Amazing that the baseline is called a designation, rather than basic, must know continuing education.

Don't you hate it when you get scammed? Another person took it a few years ago, told me about it and I said no thanks. I forgot what the price was, then they wanted you to join their website, etc. It would be good for people that have lived in a cave for a few years and wanted to know the unbelievable BASICS of stuff. You need a domain name, etc. The public just thinks that you know how to send an email probably and thinks why do Realtors need a designation for that!

I've worked with several e-pro agents and found they didn't know half the stuff I know without an e-pro designation. Like someone said earlier, it's just for the public.

well, it looks good on a business card and sellers don't really know what it is... they do know that it's another title you can claima and that may give you an upper hand i guess..

Thanks for the tip I was thinking about getting the e-pro cetification

I think it's time may have passed. The only E designation the buyers care about is it you/your site uses technology well.

Even though the e-PRO course taught me a few things that I did not know, I believe it is a valuable class. A revamp and re-amp is necessary as some of the information is outdated. There are a number of agents out there that need the education to update their computer and marketing skills.

I agree with Bill, the letters behind one's name are not nearly as important as the education derived from the classes.

Thanks for the post. I was just going to sign up for this.

Interesting, as someone who is not a real estate agent I had always seen the e-pro designation but never really understood it. In all honesty, it would not affect my decision to work with that agent. However, the training may be helpful for some agents who need a good primer in how to use the internet for real estate.

I guess it all depends on what your agenda for getting one is. I was never one for any designation but I have my CRS which is supposed to be one of the top designations to get but I haven't seen much from it other than taking up space on my cards so far...

I'm a iPro and you can be too just mail me a check for $300. dicounted over then next 20 minutes to $199 and we will throw in a chicken wing. Seriously though if you want to get rich just invent something to sell to Realtor or Insurance companies, their ego want let them refuse. I seen one here that was a CFE or something (certified foreclosure expert) come on what will we pay for these initials that the public could care less about.

I agree generally. I have it, did not learn anything. However I do think it may help agents that are completely clueless when it comes to the tech world. There was an agent in my old office who did not even know what email was let alone how to use the MLS system. She was very old school. It would help her.

I learned more at GRI. ABR not really worth it.

Thanks for this. I have not gone down the E Pro route. But seeing so many Realtors advertising the certification you almost feel pressure to have the tag. I feel I can either learn or ask enough questions on AR to accomplish what I could on E Pro

Oh boy, now I"m more confused than ever. (trust me, that's not difficult in my little world:) I was seriously considering taking the EPRO and now question it. I am not a beginner, nor an expert. On a scale of 1 to 10 in skills, I"d say I'm a 4? Do you think it would be worth it for me? I'll be checking back for more comments. They seem to be all over the board, don't they?

e-pro has been behind the times. I started blogging before they did and I found a few things in the course that were obsolete when I took it. I know many who benefited from the course. I beneifted bcause I got to meet a bunch of agents from around the country. There was no active rain then and it was the first time I really shared ideas with other like minded people. I have a friend here in MN who really benefited from it and got "caught up" so to speak.

Nick, you are right on. All I ever got out of the presentations was they would teach me how to read my email and then sell me a web site. Have you noticed that almost all of their trainers/presenters are web site salesmen?

I just dropped out of all of their newsgroups and email lists because of the bias of Saul and company. I had posted a response to one of the threads and the next day it was gone. I posted about the problem and several other members started chiming in with "Me Too. My Post Was Deleted." Then we started to find out that Saul would delete anything that is preceived as being critical of him or his web sites. After having too many of my posts/responses deleted by Saul because I disagreed with his point of view, I decided to call it quits. I believe several others have quit as well

Have you ever been to his site? Have you tried to follow one of the conversation threads? That is one of the most disjointed sites I have ever tried to navigate. Very, very slow to load. And don't even think about using the spell checker. That thing hasn't worked in years. And still doesn't.

If someone wants me to pay them four hundred bucks so they can teach me about the internet, then their expertise should show on their web site. And I talked to several epro's via private email (not through RealTalk) and they all said basicly the same thing... not worth it, outdated, or just plain wrong! Only a couple said they would do it again, because when they started they didn't know anything about computers, the internet, email, nothing. So from that point of view, they got something from it.

I think you will find that the only people that think it was worth while are new agents coming from other jobs or professions and just getting into Real Estate and need to learn new skills. And most of these new agents are coming from a life time of work in another field.... how much computer usage do you get as a carpenter or truck driver or widget saleman? Not much. And the younger new agents are already computer savy. You don't see many young new agents as epro. They grew up with a keyboard in their lap.

It would be interesting to take a poll on this site/thread about the age demographics of those with the epro designation. Older age agents needing to learn computer basics? Younger age agents thinking they would be taught Real Estate specific computer usage? How long did it take you to realize the links ( "Tools" ) were outdated sites? After coming to Active Rain, did you understand how easy it could be to get around on a site, unlike RealTalk. Have you ever had problems with your posts/responses disappearing?

Sorry for the rant. But if anyone asks me if epro is worth it, the answer is NO! The people on this site can guide you better, faster, and with less agravation. The people on this site can provide you with up-to-date links with current information. The people on this site can answer your questions and direct you to resoures that work.

The idea of epro was a good one. Too bad the implementation fell short.

Larry Rogers
Avon Park FL

I got my ePro designation "way" before I ever discovered Active Rain. But, I have gotten referrals from other Realtors that like to "see" that designation on my resume. Every designation helps...in my opinion. But....I learned to be a better web geek from "ACTIVE RAIN" !!!

Nick ~ I took the e-Pro course 5 years ago and I kind of wondered if it had gotten any better. I can't say that I learned a whole lot from the course either, but I did make some connections at the time that weren't possible in other areas. In 2003, there weren't real estate blogs and even most agent's websites were pretty bad.

I recently signed up for my first web site and just joined Active Rain. This is my first shot at social networking. Was considering e-pro and have it as a top priority in my 2009 business plan. I will now probablymove it to a lower priority and revisit it after I have had some time here on Active Rain. Thanks to all who provided some insight. Take Care

No matter what the course or designation it should always be important the education we receive from them. One thing I liked about doing the course was that there were things I did not know...even for having the knowledge I have. ActiveRain is by far the best blogging /networking site around but the e-PRO course is structured and may teach others who know nothing about internet marketing etc. a lot. I know many in my company could benefit from it tremendously.

Bottom line...use what we can and throw the rest away .... :)

I took the original e-PRO course back in the early days (1999 - 2000 I think?) then took it again from the Internet Crusade guys when they took over since it was offered at no charge to those of us who had already paid the other company that went out of business.

At the time, I was already pretty tech savvy, but it was the interaction with other agents around the country, and the exchange of information about all the technology that we were finding that made it good. I got to "know" agents all over the country, and many of them were the earliest members here on Active Rain. (The e-PRO listserve, along with RealTalk, were the social networks of those days.)

I think you can get the same benefit right here on AR, so unless you think you want some letters after your name, or need some continuing ed credits, it probably doesn't have a lot of value today. (But I have it included in all my sigs, just in case some consumer thinks it might make me stand out in the crowd!)

Thanks for the heads up. It good to know what money is best spent on.

Gee if anybody bothers to notice but the majority of people who have commented on this post in the negative against being an E-Pro would probably say that no designations and their letters after your name are worth earning! (or like Nick dont advertise their certifications!) Youre a pitiful bunch! Isnt it so easy to be negative! anyone can do that! You certainly wouldnt stand out in anybody's mind- buyer or seller if youre just like every other agent and dont either have the money, motivation or the balls to do further training to better yourself and what you could offer your clients in real estate as well as Continuing Education credit, as a building block for ABR and CRS and no yearly fees!

Nick - I received the e-PRO designation a few years ago and agree that it is outdated, much has changed in the last few years... but, for many "non-tech" enthusiasts I can see that there is value in it for them. I can't tell you how many agents are internet savvy and could use it.

I received my e-pro in 04 and will admit much of the stuff I knew already but hey if you learn one thing it's worth it. That's education. In fact, everytime I go to any class I look at it that way - I'm here to learn at least one thing. Beleive it or not I have actually suggested this class to many in the Macomb MI only because many are clueless, they do not have a website and have no idea what a blog is.

HAS ANYONE NOTICED THAT NICK HAS NOT COMMENTED BACK ON ANY OF THESE COMMENTS?

Maybe he was just gone for the day!

I'm with Sally, there are most of us who don't need it. But there are still realtors that don't know how to open their email. I think if they took the step of taking e-pro it may give them enough confidence to keep going.

Yes Ive noticed that Nick has been absent from this post? maybe he'll wake up 2? or maybe he's on the yellow brick road to see the Wizard?

I hate to say it but if Nick can write this post, get a featured post on AR and get 96 comments on AR all saying the same thing (great post Nick right on it aint worth it!) then content sure isnt King on AR! maybe we need more posts with Recipes?

I am going to take it because some other realtors like you to have it if they are going to send you referrals

Nick,

I haven't yet taken the e-pro designation courses, mainly because I just haven't had the time to do so. I do believe in designations. Unlike Mike Mchaud who thinks they are a crock of ____. I have been in real estate for 23.5 years. Coming from a state that requires C.E. I started early on taking courses that led to a designation. Yes, I did take stand alone courses because they interested me and I believe in learning as much as possible when it comes to representing people on probably their biggest investment.

Unlike Mike M. I back in 1986 started dealing with foreign nationals and the "New Americans" who hold designations to a high standard. Unlike american buyers who really don't understand them because we, in the profession, do not promote ourselves as professionals and therefore we tolerate the classification that we are just equal to used car salesmen. I don't believe this because I have seen the amount of knowledge we must have to be prepared and to properly represent our clients be they buyer or seller. Everyday in our industry something changes, something new comes along, be it a new law, decision from the DOJ or DOS, etc. We owe it to our selves as professionals and to our clients to be on top of our industry and our profession. Our designations tell everyone, if we market ourselves properly, that we invest in our knowledge and in ourselves, to better conduct our profession to the advantage of our clients. The acronyms are useless on their own, we need to spell them out so that the general public understand what they mean to them as buyers and sellers.

I didn't spend thousands of dollars and who knows how many hours to waste time and money. I did it so that I can promote myself as a true professional who puts their money where their mouth is. I think that we as Realtors, owe it to our profession and our clients to present the best there is and knowledge is a powerful tool. Couple this with experience and a solid track record of successes of making the American Dream come true for hundreds of families is an attestment to true professionalism. Our self promotion as Multi-million Dollar Producers is a farce! It makes the public think we are millionaires, and we are not. It is not a true representation of who we are and what we are all about. I'd rather be known for making the American Dream happen for 40 families in 2008 than to say I am a 20Million dollar producer! It means more and will be accepted more readily by the public.

Designations are not just a bunch of letters after your name, they are a statement that you take your profession to the higher levels, that you are dedicated to your profession and your clients.

If you believe that I am wrong, please back it up with facts, because I can back up the fact that Realtors that hold certain designations make substanitally more money annually than Realtors that do not hold the designations.!

I have wandered around in my thinking on E-Pro. I wonder if the designation would ring with consumers. Lord knows that I don't think I would get my money out of the classes...

Thanks for your comments. I have been suspicious of this as well.

Marcy Moyer Keller Williams Realty Palo Alto

Been there, done that, and got my designation in the 1st week in real estate. Granted, I came froma technical background and it was a breeze but it certainly hasn't helped my biz.

Activerain and my contacts through AR didn't cost andything and has helped me in many ways over ePro. Sorry Saul!

DEC

2008

I guess one thing Nick didn't learn from e-PRO is to respond to e-mails as soon as possible--in this case respond to the scores of comments here. lol

e-PRO is not for techies and those already participating on AR and other social networks. If you can afford it, have time, and just want to get the CE out of the way and earn a designation, why not? There's no annual dues like CRS or ASP either.

Decisions, decisions.

Hello Everyone!

I want to start off by saying I apologize for the late response! I had no internet when I got home last night and when I had left the office only had nine comments....

There are a couple themes here:

#1. I think we can agree that E-Pro needs to update their program.

#2. It sounds like for beginners it was somewhat beneficial.

In regards to education.. I am 100% for it. I believe that if you can take a few "Golden Nuggets" from any class, it is worth it.

Maybe we need to see a Epro 2.0? or rename Epro to Epro Beginner?

I am all about content. If they are going to teach agents about staying with the curve or ahead of the internet curve, then I would at least expect to see a few new concepts...

I got my designation several years back. I flew through the course, but for others not use to technology it is a good beginning on the basics. I think they added a module for setting up a blog as several from Ann ARbor set one up and never posted, just to complete the assignment.

UPDATE:

I wanted to let everyone know that the purpose of the post was not to bash E-Pro, but simply point out that it could be updated.

Stay tuned later this afternoon for my newest post: E-Pro vs AR-Pro: Are you an AR-PRO?

So the E-Pro course is "not a complete waste of designation"? or a "complete waste of money" is it Nick!? too bad you completely turned off a number of your readers who were thinking of taking the course and changed their minds!

I also think that the E-Pro course has to start at the beginner level which it does. Unfortunately a lot of people (like Nick) who take it arent beginners thanks to Active Rain!

I think Nick has somewhat changed his position. I'm waiting for the answer to one of the commenter's question...do you have an e-PRO designation, Nick? Good strategy to get read and draw attention for the follow up post. :)

I think some are quick to dismiss designation/education when they don't have it. It's kind of like the question of whether or not an agent needs a BS degree to be one. The answer generally depends on whether a person already has it or not.

Just sayin'.

Wow - someone who could get through the e-pro course in two hours - that is amazing. I'm taking the course and I am learning things. I am not technically savy so for me it is not a waste of money. Actually, I don't think anything we can learn is a waste of time or money. During the down time, my business partner and I have traveled the state to take classes that have helped in our business. We are working on our CIPS designation (education done-now working on transactions). We have 1 class to go for our GRI. Not only are we learning but we have met some great people in real estate from all over the world.

Everyone has an opinion and that is great. I am not sorry I spent the money on the classes I have taken or the classes I will take in the future. If it helps me be a better agent - its worth it.

Bonnie Barbieri
www.HomeInTheSunGroup.com

Answer to a few questions... comments:

#1. Yes, I have completed the Course.

#2. I still feel that the E-Pro is a waste of a designation. Does that mean it is a waste of a course? No.

#3. Have I changed my position? No. I still believe it is a waste of money.

#4. Will you see me use E-Pro as a marketing tool? YES! I spent way too much money to not get something from this designation.

#5. Would I feel different if E-Pro had updated their course information and tools? Most likely!

#6. Are you ready for a E-Pro vs ActiveRain Debate? Hopefullly!

I worked with a (shall I call "old school") agent last year who didn't even own a cell phone. Very nice person but I had to be very patient. He would benefit from the e-pro designation.

I have a new agent working with me, Pauline Kraav (West Fargo), I've been searching for classes, etc. that would be helpful for her education. Thanks so much for a blog which has helped me make a decision on e-Pro.

I have an "E-Agent®" designation from Keller Williams...I did not pay ONE SLIM DIME for it.......

It serves me well to let the public know I am a "go to person" for real estate because I know my stuff on a computer....

NICE post....!!

=-)

I just received an e-blast from NAR on becomming an E-Pro. Did this post have anything to do with that?

Nick, thanks for the info, I was thinking of taking the class, I know now that I won't be. I do have an agent though who is completely technically challenged, I think I may still encourage her to take it.

Nick you say that the E-Pro is a waste of a designation and a waste of money but that you will be using it in your marketing efforts? All I can say is that youth is squandered upon the young! I cant believe that anyone on AR would make up their own mind to not take any course because of this or any post which is nothing more than just a personal opinion from a young inexperienced realtor!

Thanks for sharing, I have been contemplating taking E-Pro. The only advantage maybe now I see is that you can put E-Pro on your marketing material and behind your name. Well I still may take the class just to say I have the designation, but I am glad to I know what to expect in the class. Thanks.

DEC

2008

I am all for education and I am not against taking new classes. I wrote my opinion about how the course is a waste of a designation. I believe that they need to completely revamp or update the course. Is that to say it won't be beneficial to those people who are not internet savvy? No, I can't say that.

People are going to do their own due diligence in regards to courses they take. My opinion has be reiterated throughout this blog that E-Pro is behind the times. Look at the front page: "a message from 2001"

The point is... everyone is going to do research. Clearly I am not alone that the course is outdated: look at the overwhelmingly large number of responses we have had.

Hey Nick and everyone else who commented on this ridiculous post read this AR post about Real Estate credentials and rethink your negative comments at http://activerain.com/blogsview/473732/Designations-Under-Fire-Why-Are-Some-Agents-So-Negative-About-Real-Estate-Designations-and-Certifications

DEC

2008

"According to NAR, REALTORS® who pursue professional designations have a distinct competitive edge as a result of their increased expertise and marketability. Based on 2008 survey data, the median income of REALTORS without a designation was $33,200 and the median income of those with at least one designation was $67,900. The difference between the two is $34,700."

So basically you can double your income by having and using a designation? Or maybe designations are a good way to stand out the more serious agents who are giving a full-time effort.

Join my NEW group for professionals who work from their home office at http://activerain.com/groups/virtualoffice

Regina P. Brown
Allison James Estates & Homes
www.ReginaBrown.AllisonJamesInc.com

STOP! DON'T GET YOUR E-PRO DESIGNATION!

It's only for the top 5% of agents. If everyone runs out and gets an e-Pro, it will be less valuable to us agents who have it and use it, like myself.

So to ensure that I remain in the exclusive 5% of top agents in the industry, I kindly request that you NOT get your e-Pro designation. It makes mine that more valuable. ;)

Regina P. Brown
Allison James Estates & Homes
www.ReginaBrown.AllisonJamesInc.com

thanks Regina Brown I joined your AR group as well!

I believe in education, designations, and staying updated with today's technology. I took the e-PRO classes and it was a little basic for me - but for those who were not internet savvy, I could see a very good benefit. But for me, I have received referrals from other e-PROers that has more than re-paid me and then some for the cost of the class. So it was more than just a designation for me -Carla

DEC

2008

Nick,--I took the e-Pro course and really liked it. I had used the net for other areas before Real Estate. found that some things covered I knew about, BUT none of my previous experience actually translated to being a REALTOR using the net. I did blog a lot on various ancestry sites. Learned many ways to Blog to various groups. That course opened up the avenue toward point2agent, Active Rain, using igoogle blogs etc. Other than google I do not believe that I would have located either AR or point2. That alone is valuable.

Now, I am an e-Pro who is having trouble uploading pictures to AR. They don't take--does that make me ignorant, or having wasted my money? I assume so based on some comments.

When I was teaching & exhibiting Art, I always learned from courses / other Artists; how can knowledge be a waste? Why discourage anyone from expanding their 'capacity in tech?'

I'm sitting here at 2:15 am due to physical injury , reading posts, learning things & thourghly enjoying the give & take found on AR. Without e-Pro I never would have learned about this as soon as I did.

Regina I, too, have joined your AR group as we work out of our home offices. And, the sad part is that I still cannot get pictures to load in my posts. Poor, dumb e-Pro that I am. Another item discovered is that the spell check on AR underlines in red; my eyes are damaged & the red is very hard for me to see--Am I incompetent because of that/ I don't think so, just slightly handicapped in proof reading.

The point has been made a few times now that I only believe the course needs to be updated and that they fail to deliver on the cost.

As for people being dumb or education as a whole being a waste of money... I have also pointed out that I have also taken the class and in know way am I slamming people who may not be internet savvy. Being an E-Pro and being internet savvy are two different things.

Please remember the main purpose of this post:

Maybe I am way off track, but I feel there could be substantially more substance than there is.

Why do you feel the designation is valuable or invaluable? Any other thoughts?

DEC

2008

I've tried to scan or read through all these comments, so I apologize if I missed the answer to this question...is there are structured course available that would be considered advanced (or a sort of updated version of the e-PRO concept)?

JAN

2009

I haven't found anything yet. Please let me know if you find anything.

JAN

2009

Nick and anyone else interested. I sent a message to the Internet Crusade about an advanced E-Pro course and here's their response:

Thank you for contacting InternetCrusade^Â® with your request. We appreciate your business. I have taken the following action as a result of your inquiry.

An Advanced E-Pro course is currently being considered for the near future.

Our Customer Service is available Monday through Friday from 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. (Pacific Time). We also monitor eMail on a regular basis at CustomerService@InternetCrusade.com Should you need any additional assistance, please feel free to contact by eMail or at my number below.

Mike Brown
Internet Advisor
Ph:866-377-0627 ext:620
Fax: 619-283-7343
Website: http://InternetCrusade.com

MAR

2010

For those with REALTOR designations ...

Did NAR (National Association of Realtors) disclose to you before you took the class that you would need to pay them every year to rent your designation?

Did NAR disclose the additional annual fee when they advertised this class?

Did NAR disclose to you how much the annual renewal fee would be before you took the class?

We are talking ethics here, are we not?

No one I know with a designation knew about these extra fees. Why is that?

Why would NAR fail to disclose annual fees, as they advertise these designations? Could it be becuase you would not take their classes?

Please email me with your NAR concerns: Seattlebroker1@aol.com

Demand your NAR refund today!

Thanks!

JUN

2010

I think there is more value in what is learned on AR then then the other stuff out there.

NOV

2010

Any news on how the advanced class is coming along?

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Nick Van Assche

San Juan, PR

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Sea Glass Properties

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Caribbean Real Estate - Sea Glass Properties serving the US Virgin Islands: (St. Thomas, St. John, St. Croix, and Water Island) and Puerto Rico (San Juan, Guaynabo, Dorado, Culebra, Vieques). Embark with Nick Vanassche as he works to transform Sea Glass Properties into a leading Caribbean Real Estate agency.

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