As early as next week, we may see 30 year mortgage rates as low as 4.5%! 

As we speak, the U.S. Treasury is evaluating different proposals and ideas to further stimulate the ailing mortgage and housing market.  One key proposal offered up by lobbyists in the financial industry would involve the Treasury buying up mortgage-backed securities from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in an effort to set a target rate of 4.5% by manipulating the supply of mortgage-backed securities.

If this proposal is ultimately carried out by the Treasury, this would amount to an unprecedented action of direct involvement by the U.S. government to lower mortgage rates.  In a normal market, the government does not intervine in the mortgage market - mortgage rates are determined by the supply and demand of mortgage-backed securities, which is ultimately controlled by demand from global investors and market conditions. 

But obviously this market is anything but normal right now. 

Over the last several years, the spread (difference) between the 10 year Treasury note yield and the 30 year mortgage rate has averaged around 1.8%.  This reflects the perception of the difference in risk between the two by investments in a normal market.  But on Wednesday of this week, the 10 Year Treasury yield fell to as low as 2.65% due to the increased demand caused by a flight to quality by investors.  However, the average 30 year mortgage rate is still hovering around 5.5%, which represents a spread of almost three points.  This increase in spread is a direct result of investors' increased perception of risk and defaults related to mortgage-backed securities. 

In other words, if we were in a normal market right now, 30 year mortgage rates would probably already be in the upper 4% range.  But the higher perception of risk has kept the rates higher.  So the only way to make them go lower at this point would be unprecedented action by the Treasury to buy up these securities which would, in theory, drive mortgage rates lower. 

At this point, there's no guarantee that this is going to happen, but I stongly believe this may be the Treasuy's best option to stimulate new home sales.  If it does happen, the resulting lower rates would greatly stimulate the housing market and also cause an unprecedented refinance boom.   

If rates do drop into the mid 4% range, homeowners and potential home buyers would be smart to lock in their rate and not hold out for continued improvements.  In my experience, people tend to hold off during times when rates make huge drops thinking they can get an extra 1/8th of a percent if they just wait a little bit longer, only to get left in the dust when rates often quickly make upward market adjustments due to the cooling off of the shock value of breaking news. 

I really don't like predicting what's going to happen with the markets.  Let's face it.  Guys like Jim Kramer and the gang on CNBC make tens of millions of dollars a year predicting the markets and THEY ARE WRONG MORE THAN HALF OF THE TIME.  I am no Jim Kramer, BUT PAST EXPERIENCE TELLS ME that when and if this is announced by the Treasury, the shock factor of the news could POSSIBLY drop rates immediately by up to one full point.  But they often adjust higher once this news is fully absorbed by the markets.  A great example of this is when the news broke in September that the government was bailing out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  Rates almost immediately dropped by .875% to 5.25%, but they only remained that low for a couple of days before levelling off above 6%.  

In other words, those that were smart and locked when the news broke got lucky.  Those who sat on the fence hoping for an extra eighth of a point missed out big time.   

But who knows.  This is direct government intervention in the fundamentals of supply and demand of mortgage-backed securities.  It might be different this time.  We may see a temporary minor shock and then more of a gradual reduction over a few weeks to a few months. But if the rates happen to drop substantially in a short period of time, you'd be smart to jump on them.  The flood of new loans could quickly increase the supply of mortgage-backed securities once again, which would, in turn, start to drive rates back up.  This will not be a permanent policy of the Treasury.  The mortgage market in the U.S. is literally Trillions of dollars, and the Treasury would run the risk of massive inflation if it were to write a blank check for these securities.  Mark my words.  This will be a "limited time only" event.  How limited?  I have no idea.  But it definitely won't last forever IF they decide to enact this plan. 

I believe that the government has little choice at this point to take direct action if they want to increase home sales and clear up some of this inventory of homes on the market.  This would be one of the best stimulus packages they could give us all for Christmas.

It's also worth noting that this is not a bailout for homeowners who are already behind on their payments or who otherwise can't qualify for a mortgage.  Those buyers are still left to negotiate with their current lenders for loan modifications or other products offered under the TARP plan.  It's also not going to help people who can't qualify for a mortgage based on their income and credit score.  Also, buyers looking to refinance their current mortgage must either have enough equity to cover the higher loan amount that will result from rolling in the new closing costs, or bring money to closing.  Another option may be to premium price the rate and have the lender pay some closing costs.  This keeps the closing costs lower but increases the interest rate.  But still, a rate in the low 5% range for little or no lender closing costs is still a great deal. 

But potential homebuyers and those that have current rates above 5.75% may benefit greatly if this proposal is approved.  As far as I can tell with the data available to me, 30 year mortgage rates have never been 4.5% (unless, of course, the buyer paid a massive amount of points to buy down their rate). 

Check back for additional breaking details.  You can be sure that I will update this blog as soon as the news breaks!  The Treasury is expected to make a final decision as early as next week. 

**UPDATE** - I have received a few emails from people who have mentioned that this program may only be eligible for PURCHASE transactions and not refinance transactions.  I have heard conflicting information in various news reports today, and everything is essentially speculation at this point.   We will have to just wait and see what the Treasury decides to do before knowing the answer to this quesiton...

If you have any additional information, i strongly encourage you to leave a comment at this point.  Thank you everyone!

** UPDATE #2 - There are still some conflicting media reports at this point, but I have heard many places that this is only being proposed for new homeowners and that refinances would be ineligible.  If any of you have links to any other specific information, please post a link in the comment section.

John Jones, Realtor

The Kaul Group - Keller Williams Elite, Dallas / Park Cities

www.dfwhomefinder.info

www.thekaulgroup.com

8201 Preston Road Suite 265

Dallas, TX 75225

Dallas, TX Real Estate and surrounding areas of Richardson, Plano, Addison, Frisco, Carrollton, Farmers Branch, Garland, Allen and Irving.

Dallas, TX neighborhoods and subdivisions of Lake Highlands, White Rock Lake, Lochwood, Eastwood, L Streets, M Streets, Hollywood Heights, Lakewood, Coronado and Gastonwood, Forest Hills, Preston Hollow.

Copyright 2009 by John Jones, All Rights Reserved.  You may reblog or republish with links back to this post. 

* THIS ARTICLE WAS ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED AT http://dfwhomefinder.info *

 

 

 
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31 Comments on Mortgage Rates at 4.5%?!?!

DEC
04
2008
661,010 Points 108 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

John - This really is unprecedented territory if rates get that low.  I thought I did really well to lock in at 5.25% about five years ago for a 30-year fixed.  WOW!

2:28pm • #1

John - thanks for keeping us updated -- I am very anxious to see this happen -- while I don't think it will cure the problem -- I do think it will push some Buyers over the edge and help with inventory levels -- Thanks again

 

JE

2:30pm • #2
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Great post!  I have several buyers that are currently watching the rates and "riding the fence"...

2:33pm • #3
300,572 Points 3 Featured Posts

I wonder if that would stimulate the RE market or just cause a refinance boom. Also would the people in foreclosure be able to be helped at all. I think ( and of course I'm nobody) but the feds ought to use the bailout to reduce all homes ( live in not investment homes) by 50%. This will cause the market to reset.

2:36pm • #4
480,278 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John... a few things... and read this.. This is speculation...   news travels fast.  You had mentioned that rates dropped drastically in September by .875%...  don't remember them dropping that much... I think the biggest drop was just a week ago, last Tuesday... but you did hit the nail on the head, that when they do drop. They tend to go back up. We gained about 3/4 of a percent last week in rates and as of today, maybe 3/8 of a percent better now.  In many cases, the market just corrects itself after good news leaks out.

Will it drop quickly when news hits?  I actually don't think so... because it takes place on Wall Street... and we need the money to hit the streets from the treasury and not just the news.

You mentioned that this might be for purchases, after receiving several e-mails. The best news that I heard was that it would be just for purchases and not for refinances. Two sad things about this... yes, it would be just for purchases... but hey, that's been 99% of my business in the last 12 months and business was still good.  Besides, buying homes does jump start the economy in several areas... 

The second thing....  we need to keep in mind of the fannie/freddie pricing penalties....  if you have scores under 680 and putting 5% down, FHA might still be the better way, even if they lowered rates. Right now, on a 5% down with a 659 credit score, the difference is about 3/4 of a percent to 1 percent difference on a FHA vs conventional rate. 

So...  this would be just for fannie and freddie...  unless you heard otherwise. If this could also help out the ginnie pools, then we would be rocking and rolling.... your take on this?  thanks for sharing this..

Jeff Belonger

2:44pm • #5
178,248 Points 13 Featured Posts

Hi John,

I have heard it may just be for purchases as well, the NAR and NAHB have been pushing congress for this in order to stimulate new sales, not refinances.

All of that being said, I thing that this will be the biggest waste of government money since, well, since TARP - the government has been doing a lot of stupid things lately.

The premise is that lower rates make homes more affordable.  I don't disagree with this, but homes are much more affordable now than they were in 2006 (rates are lower now than in 2006 too) and yet there are 1.6 million fewer homes sales in 2008 than in 2006.

Contrary to a lot of people's opinion, the real estate slow down is not due to affordability - it is due to underwriting.  Mortgage rates at 4.5% won't change this.

Will it help, sure, but not to the extent that many are predicting.

2:50pm • #6
1 Featured Post

Mortgage rates at 4.5%.  I can't beieve it.

2:53pm • #7
163,197 Points 9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I'm doing back flips...this helps push many buyers off the fence.  There is NO better time to buy, than now, in my opinion.  Rates are down, inventory is up.  Thanks to the media, buyers and sellers are scared to death. Maybe this will get buyers excited again. At least it is a step towards cleaning the market up!

3:08pm • #8

Great post John.  I remarked similarly on my blog.

One thing to think about; it's always a safer bet to lock in when it's low and to "listen" to your mortgage professional when they say it's better to lock than float. And what Mark said is true:  you could have 4.5% or even 3.5% rates, but if you can't get the loan underwritten, it doesn't MATTER what the interest rate is at that point.

My colleagues here in the office were just discussing that underwriting self-employed utilizing tax returns, needs to improve, IMHO.  For example, a borrower needing to refinance, is a self-employed business owner that runs a landscaping business. He grosses $600k per year, but with all deductions, write-offs, etc, shows a low income on paper.  A W-2 employee could write-off their income AND still count the income.  I think the self-employed are being penalized for doing what they can to safe taxes, when it comes to getting conventional terms and rates on their loans.

THAT'S what they should look into changing or encouraging underwriting to re-look at proving income.  My borrower may go with a STATED LOAN program I have, but the terms are awful!!  7.875% at 65% LTV and with 2.12 Points in HITS!!  Perfect credit (797 mid score) and absolutely great file, except for the tax returns.

Anyway, 4.5% fixed rates MAY help in short-term, but it's not a long term fix I think.  Plus all this speculation in the news, could cause buyers and refinance clients to wait on the fence again, instead of locking in a sure thing now!

3:30pm • #9

2 STEP FORECLOSURE SOLUTION

Step #1:  Give everyone who has a mortgage a 120 day moratorium on their mortgage payments.  No one would have to make a mortgage payment for the next 120 days.  This would be retroactive for anyone who is currently late on their payment.  Use a portion of the Government Bailout Money to compensate lenders if deemed necessary.  This would act as a great stimulus to the economy, especially at Christmas time when people are motivated to spend money! 

Step #2:  Allow anyone and everyone to apply to refinance into a 5%. or lower, 30 year fixed rate mortgage.  Credit scores, debit to income ratios, etc. would not be taken into consideration, since lower credit scores have been a direct result of the down turn in the economy.  

The FORECLOSURE problem is at the root. To date, we have seen very little done to help keep folks in their homes.  Most of the "so called help" is coming in the form of lower fixed rate loans, for new buyers only.  Lets not forget that the VAST MAJORITY of these folks who have been foreclosed on and who are in the process of loosing their homes, QUALIFIED and were doing fine making their payments at the initial interest rates they were qualified at, most rates at more than 4.5%. I think we will find that most of these folks can continue to make their payments if they could get a 4.5%, 30 year fixed rate, same as proposed for new buyers!

Steve
3:33pm • #10

Very informative post. We could all definitely use a boost in business. Thanks John.

3:36pm • #12
7 Featured Posts

This is TERRIBLE news. It's going to be funded by debt, which is passed along to taxpayers, and paid for by property owners and capital earners. What a disaster.... and some people are praising it? There's NO FREE LUNCH, friends. And the government can't just "create" interest rate drops without PRINTING MONEY which is called INFLATION.

So, for the sake of BUYERS, we'll destroy MORE housing value through INFLATION?

Yeah, there's a successful policy in action...

- Matthew Ferrara

My take on news can be found at:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/819428/News-Flash-Federal-Reserve-Unveils-Plan-to-Push-Housing-Market-Lower

 

3:38pm • #13
129,518 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

John, I am not sure, but I think that Matthew thinks this is TERRIBLE news. Probably our wonderful PROXY Error working again.

I think that you explained this very well. I like the detail you went into about the spread between Treasuries and MBS. As for some of the other comments, making it purchase only, etc., I don't see how that will work, other than adding hits for the type of loan. We will see. The interesting thing that I have seen is the old Wall Street, buy on the rumor and sell on the fact. Rates have already started dropping and a borrower needs to be postioned to take advantage of it.

I actually beat you out with my blog on this, but you have more information. Great job!

3:48pm • #15
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Hey Johnnie!!  Good info regarding your Blog today.  If Bernake's plan is approved AS IT SHOULD BE it certainly will give everyone a better perspective or should I say motivation to get the consumers back in the saddle.   Also, you mentioned some other points, although circumstantial would be a nice cous if adopted as a package.

Fred T

3:51pm • #16

Lower rates are good but who in the end will take advantage of them. i suspect it will be mostly those people who are are qualified to re-finance. Then when they order a new appraisal on their home to see what the home is worth this re-finance might not happen

  Second, those who have poor credit, past due on their current mortgage and really need to modify their loans are not going to be the ones to take advantage of the lower rates. It will also help new buyers get off the fence and decide now is a good time to buy. All in all I still think the root of the problem is Foreclosures and I do not think lowering interest rates alone will help people who are at risk of foreclosure. Banks need to reduce interest rates, lower loan principle, extend the loan to really help home owners at risk. I predict things will get worse not better no matter what the feds do to lower interest rates.

4:08pm • #17
111,928 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Wow, wouldn't that be great assuming they did drop?  Perhaps that would get some people off the fence. 

4:16pm • #18
178,248 Points 13 Featured Posts

Matthew Ferrara: Thanks for pointing this out.  All of these bailouts are being funded by the gov't printing money which negatively affects the value of the green back.

We are creating another asset bubble, the U.S. dollar.  While trying to avoid another depression we are sewing the seeds of a different type of economic collapse that we will be reading about in history books for decades to come. 

4:23pm • #19
190,592 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Great post and very informative.  I have some friends who are ready to jump on some real estate if this happens.

5:09pm • #20
1 Featured Post

John- I'm glad you are getting the word out on falling interest rates as our local media hasn't been covering too much "GOOD NEWS". 

5:30pm • #21
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Thanks for the comments everyone...sorry about the late response.  I was getting a ton of proxy errors earlier. 

 

Jason Crouch - You did do well.  Who knows, this might not happen after all, it's just speculation at this point.  Thanks for the comment.  I enjoy your blogs by the way!

 

Jason Ellis - Yes I agree it won't solve the problem, and the speculation of this may actually cause people to sit on the fence for now, so it's our job to keep our buyers informed as news breaks. 

 

Donna - It's amazing how many people "sit on the fence" when rates are at or near 40 year lows.  I remember when I was quoting almost 9% to people many years ago..they wouldn't even blink.  But the prospect of getting just a little bit better makes many people freeze.

 

Charles - I think we would have inflation on the order of post-war Germany if the govt did that.   50% of all the mortgages would equate to several Trillion dollars.  And the gov't and the Fed have already either pledged or guaranteed between 4 and 5 Trillion in various forms, depending on who you ask.  At some point, there has got to be an end. 

 

Jeff Bolinger - Yes, it's speculation.  And yes, I believe you are correct that rates did not drop as much as I stated in the blog.  I was looking at a past client's profile that closed around that time and forgot she paid an extra point.  The rates dropped around .625 temporarily, but quickly rose back to levels before the news broke.

 

And from what I understand about Ginnie Mae and FHA rates, Ginnie does not actually issue MBS anyway.  They are ultimately securitized by Fannie and Freddie and are just guaranteed by Ginnie.  I don't understand enough about the secondary market to really make an informed opinion on that, other than what I've just stated and read on Ginnie's website.  http://www.ginniemae.gov/about/about.asp?Section=About

 

And as far as limiting this to purchases, I'm confused as to exactly how they would go about this since the rates for both are priced the same.  So what would they do?  Create two sets of rates, one for purchases and one for refis?  Or just add a hit for refis?  Not sure I can comprehend the logistics of that.  If the Treasury buys up pools, the entire GSE backed MBS market will lower in price.  If you add an adjustment for refis, whose pocket does that money go in?

I'm not educated enough on the MBS market to really input more than that.  Please respond when you get a chance.  Thank you.

Mark - I agree with you about the slowdown.  There are many reasons, and there's no doubt that homes and rates are more affordable then they've been in years.  A bad decision?  Maybe.  I will reserve final judgment until I hear all of the details.

 

Lou - Don't believe it until it's on my rate sheet.  It's not reality just yet.

 

Mortgage Express - I agree with you to a point.  I think there needs to be a new loan that offers self-employed borrowers (especially those who own corporations and may be only taking a small salary and leaving much of the income in the company) good rates if they meet the "common sense" test of low risk.  In other words, if they have strong reserves, an excellent credit history, and especially if they are refinancing an existing mortgage to a lower payment that they've demonstrated the ability to pay on time.    

But as far as a stated program for anyone who just has a good credit score but employs "liberal" accounting, I'm not for that at all without the consideration of other factors.  In one respect, a self-employed individual tells one agency of the government (the IRS) that they don't make any money.  On the other hand, they want to be able to state income to another branch of the government (Fannie Mae, FHA, what have you) and get a government insured loan.  If he "really" makes more money then he is claiming on paper, then he should be reporting that income to the IRS.  You might disagree with me, but I'm pretty sure the IRS would see it my way.  If he really makes more and is not being truthful on his deductions, then he's committing tax fraud.  My take is you can't have it both ways.  You either report your true income, pay taxes on that income like everyone else, and you get the luxury of a loan that's agency backed.   Or you engage in "liberal" tax accounting, pay far less in taxes than someone who is a W-2 employee and actually has to pay taxes, and have to accept the fact that your income is what your tax returns say it is.  Stated was never meant as a way to beat the system, it was designed to reduce paperwork. 

But show me a system where compensating factors can allow someone who has strong reserves, a good down payment and a strong credit profile can get an agency-backed loan with a rate similar to that as full doc, and I'm all for it.  If your landscaping guy has $100K in the bank, good credit history and depth, I would loan him the money myself.  Except I don't have the money, unfortunately.  It is a shame that people who meet the common sense definition of "low risk" are getting stuck with terrible loan programs, but there has to be a standard.  Obviously the one we have now isn't working.

Fast and Easy was a perfect example of how not to do stated income.  Have a 700?  You get a loan. No need to even show bank statements.  That makes no sense. 

 

Steve - Unfortunately some of the loans that were done (especially pay option ARMs in high cost areas) were made to borrowers that probably couldn't afford the payment if the rate were at 0%.  And stopping foreclosures for 120 days would mostly just delay the inevitable, IMO.  As far as lowering rates to 5%, they already are almost at 5% for people with good credit that can prove income.  Making loans to people with no standards will just delay this another few years, and the problem will be that much worse.  Home values need to fall in areas where the exotic loans allowed them to get out of control. 

 

Gynell - If I ever get done typing these responses, I'm going to come meet you for a drink :)

 

Matthew - Believe it or not, I agree with you that the end result of the collective bailouts, guarantees, swaps, discount lending, what have you, will ultimately result in massive inflation that will, coupled with the 65 Trillion dollar gap in government commitments versus expected receipts over the next 20-30 years, result in the eventual collapse of our financial system unless me make some major changes. Inevitable?  No.  But we're quickly getting to that point.  All I can say is that i'm putting a substantial portion of my extra cash into gold and silver, and I think everyone should consider that (if you can even find it right now).

 So, is this a terrible proposal?  I'm going to reserve judgment until I hear exactly how much the government is going to have to spend to manipulate the rates down to 4.5%.  We're really not that far off right now anyway.  Who knows.  The market may adjust enough on its own before they make a final decision.  Probably not though.

I'm just as upset as everyone else about the Trillions of dollars that have been spent and pledged to bailout Wall Street and other people who made poor decisions.  But if we're going to spend money on anything, I'd rather see it go to something like this that's actually has a chance of helping the market stabilize (as long as it's not keeping values too high in areas where they really need to come down).  Remember, I'm in Texas.  We don't have million dollar shoeboxes here like in California.  Values are in line with median incomes here, so this would be a good thing for our area, IMO. 

So where are we right now?  With a boatload of debt and probably a credit default swap bombshell that more than likely hasn't even begun to hit the fan.  And at this point, we're arguably already more socialist than China. 

But at least this program will do more to help Main Street than Wall Street. 

 

Everyone else.  I'm out of time, but thanks for the comments!  I will check back tomorrow and try to respond to all of you. 

 

5:44pm • #22

The news I hear on the street is that a mini refi boom is starting.  The processing wheels are going to slow quite a bit with the new app count.

 

I suggest Realtors help their customers by partnering to make sure paperwork is getting in at the beginning of the loan process, preferably at submission.

 

My thought is that there are going to be many loans not closing on time due to the influx of subbissions including (PURCHASES) in the pipeline.

 

I know it is stating the obvious but you would be surprised what is missed when things get busy.

5:47pm • #23

I just hope they don't limit this to purchase transactions.  The tougher guidelines will help strengthen the market by re-evaluating all of these conventional deals during this process.  I am prepared to get this going though and so are my past clients.

6:01pm • #24

John I really appreciate your information today, well written!

We will see what kind of reaction rates take and how long it takes/lasts - this is history in the making and we're in it!

6:14pm • #25

I've also heard that it will apply only to purchases, but heck I just locked a refi at 4.875% 30 yr fixed today.

6:34pm • #26

I just hope if they do it they don't wait 2 months so all of our buyers hold off.  Man, if those kind of rates don't bring buyers out of the woodwork, I don't know what will.  I wish we could refi, but probably can't b/c we are both self-employed, write a lot off and may not qualify anymore

7:42pm • #27
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Sounds like good news to me - thanks for such a well written informative post.

7:47pm • #28
DEC
05
2008
228,563 Points 1 Featured Post

So what I 'm wondering is that this news of a "potential" decrease will delay current buyers from purchasing, further impacting the market. Second, if the measure will include re-fis. Third, how long will it last and how many people will actually qualify, and they will need to be qualified. Finally, you make the excellent point, that this only indirectly helps home owners on their way to foreclosures and who are selling their home, perhaps opening the doors for additional buyers.

What happens a few years from now when those people have purchased a home, have lower payments and want to sell to someone who will have to pay higher rates -- will that house have grown in value?

4:17am • #29
156,650 Points Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

If this doesn't spur home purchases on, I don't know what will.  If they do this, they had better do it soon because I don't want to hear that no one is buying a house for the next six months because everyone is waiting for the lower rates to kick in.  I know you said as early as next week, but big government usually moves slowly!

Matthew Ferrara, above, makes some very interesting points!

9:45am • #30
1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Janice - I think  you make an excellent point about the future value once rates inevitably start to climb higher.  I think at this point many people will be left with no other choice but to remain in their home for the long haul to rebuild some equity.  The trend of upgrading homes every few years might creep to a halt for the majority of Americans for quite some time. 

thanks for all the other comments.  again, i'll update as new information about this proposal breaks

10:10am • #31
225,622 Points 4 Featured Posts

It is not Rates that are holding people back, we got near levels we have not seen since 2003 which were 40 year lows. the average 30 year rate for the past 20 years is 7.68%.  if 5's dont make people jump, they wont jump.  Consumer confidence is the issue, NOT RATES.

This Rumor has done nothing but stall the market. I have already talked to clients that are going to "wait and see" if it will happen. 

12:34pm • #32
DEC
07
2008

BRING IT ON...IT WILL MAKE SOME PEOPLE GET OFF THE FENCE AND BUY...WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!

11:51pm • #33

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