I am confused

 

 

I feel like I am about to play back a broken record. But I received an e-mail today with this link. More bad decisions by G.E.

Here is my initial problem with anything that is put out there for the consumer to read. It's one-sided, yet is sounds like good opinion and advice. hhhmmm...  Exactly that, it's an opinion that sounds like fact, because of the figures mentioned.

 

 

Here is what was stated :

broker vs banker statementEven though I am a mortgage banker, I would agree with the first statement. (there is nothing wrong with this statement)  It's the second sentence, highlighted in yellow, that I have a problem with. Is this author saying that mortgage bankers don't educate the consumer?

And then the second part of that sentence in green makes it sound like brokers offer the best choice of mortgage programs with competitive price. This could be an ongoing debate with both sides having valid arguments. That is not what this post is about, which I will explain soon.

 

 

In the next paragraph, this is then mentioned by the author.....

"We must remember that: Mortgage brokers do not underwrite loans! 99% of brokers shop rates and package loans to be underwritten by banks and mortgage insurance underwriters. Direct lenders, banks and MI underwriters must approve these transactions and apply for mortgage insurance certificates based on the quality of their underwriting not the mortgage brokers package."

So wait, are you telling me, that even if you put a loan into the system, even if it shouldn't go, that if it is approved, then it's the banks fault? What ever happened to due diligence? What ever happened to taking responsibility? Just think about these statements and comments.

 

 

broker vs banker statement

 

Now, can we blame this on Fannie or Freddie and even on FHA/HUD? Sure, in regards to Fannie or Freddie. But where does the blame truly take place?  I wrote about this a month ago or so,  Stop pointing the finger !!!!! We screwed up !!!!

 

 

 

Conclusion : As I mentioned, this will always be an ongoing debate that mortgage bankers are better than mortgage brokers or vice versa. In my opinion, that is irrelevant. What about the people that you actually deal with. Why don't we criticize them, meaning the loan officers at hand. Do you know that a mortgage broker can promise you a rate and fees and change it on you at the end?  This is called bait and switching.  But wait, so can a loan officer that works for the bank, aka, banker. Wait, there is more....

In regards to the statement above, that loan officers can bait and switch, coupled with the statements in the beginning, the bankers are at fault for this mess. As an underwriter, no matter who they work for, they underwrite the loan. They don't police it, making sure what was promised in the beginning is the same at the end. That is called compliance or post closing. Which can still be argued about from different sides of the fence.

 

Overall, let's stay with the original argument or post in hand. It goes back to education. Educating the consumer, the public, and not blanket statements that are based on opinions. Personally, that is partially what got us in this mess to begin with.  Not giving the consumer what they need to hear, but what they want to hear.... what do you say?

And to add this...  Scott Leaf made this comment below.  Comment about fraud....  Here is my opinion on this.  Fraud can pass from a broker to banker and in many cases, you might not know until a year later. Again, it shouldn't be about banker vs broker.

 

 

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11 Comments on A blanket statement or not : Bankers are at fault, not brokers.....

DEC
26
110,208 Points Outside Blog

Hey Jeff, im with you.  The entity loaning the money, unless they have been defrauded, is responsible for their own mess, unless of course they get a govt bailout, then we are all responsible! yay!

2:02pm • #1
423,751 Points 36 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff,

You know by reading my blog that I am NOT a proponent of the 'BLAME GAME'...But if I had to point the finger at anyone, it would be Fanny & Freddy...Bottom line---if there were not a market for those type loans on the secondary market, then they would not have been underwritten...If Fanny or Freddy would not have bought such loans they would never have been closed!!! JMHO, not fact,   Fran

2:04pm • #2
2 Featured Posts

Sales.....ain't it great! Sales people will SELL what ever product they have to offer. The loan officer could be a broker, a banker, what ever. They are 1st and foremost loan officers who are compensated for closing loans. Doesn't matter if they work with B of A, Chase, Bob's Mortgage Broker, where ever. We loan officers didn't come up with the product menu. We sold what we had, period. The large investment firms are the ones to blame for this mess, along with Fanny and Freddie. Greed, and Greed alone brought us here. Leaving the Gov. loans from the mix....Once upon a time there was conforming and sub-prime loans. Conforming loans had 26/38 DR's, no delinquency in credit, stability of employment, cash assets, etc. Sub-prime had 50% DR's, lower LTV's, a bump in credit here and there, limited assets, etc. Somehow, each type of loan lost its vision of what it's market was. Conforming went down, to take market from Sub-prime with relaxed criteria. Sub-Prime went up to take market from conforming with higher LTV's and lower rates. BANG! Parties over. Greed always cause losses. History SHOULD have taught the industry that. Yet, we'll probably never learn..... 

2:36pm • #3
140,757 Points 29 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff,

I worked for a real estate attorney 17 years ago for 7 years and in a post I wrote in Jan/Feb. of this year, I questioned my role in the whole debacle.  I fought hard to get my real estate agent's contracts to the closing table and closed.  Some of them,looking back, I was so happy to have been able to get the impossible closed, working closely with buyers and mortgage companies, getting the conditions cleared, sellers in clearing title, getting home inspection issues resolved, etc.

So I wondered if there shouldn't have been a point where I walked away and said, this is this tough for a reason, maybe it's best left alone.  Not the  right time, but no I worked hard to push them through.

So I would agree, best to move onward and upward.  Let the lesson of history teach us something but then get past the blame and onto the solution.

4:21pm • #4
352,391 Points 22 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I want to call it like it is...even though it'll piss some off.  Brokers can fly under the radar and therefore have more of a chance to be renegade here.  Bankers have too many people that they report to....  I just finished dealing with a broker who got their shop shut down for fraud.  She was able to skate under the wire and screw so many people.  The State's Attorney came in and shut her down.  She's now dealing with her civil and criminal sentences.  As a banker she would never have been able to pull off what she did.  I have other friends who are stellar brokers.  My point is only that it's easier to pull this stuff off with being a broker.

4:38pm • #5
320,927 Points 40 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff--I don't understand how anyone can pin this whole mess on anyone group. There were several groups and individuals that were a part of causing this 'perfect storm" of a financial tsunami. Not every mortgage broker, real estate agent or bank is at fault though several may have contributed to the problem. I think it is time for the finger pointing at groups to be over.

5:22pm • #6
480,054 Points 151 Featured Posts Outside Blog

 

SCOTT..... . a very good point that I didn't even talk about in the post.  Thanks, I am going to add that statement about fraud. Basically, who is holding the paper last should be proclaimed the bad guy... and that would be a false statement.. thanks

FRAN.... .  a very good point and I would tend to agree. I really would, but that is not what this post was truly about. Sure, I included a sentence in there that pointed the fingers at Fannie & Freddie. But it wass this individual that pointed their fingers at the banks.  Banks lend. I know you know this....  but this was broker banker issue that needs to be attacked and debated correctly in my opinion. The broker in this author is pawning off the mess on the bankers... and I could have made this long and given details. I am definitely going to add the comment by Scott, the one above you...  Fraud... it could be done by broker, banker, servicing, CEO's & CFO's of Fannie or Freddie... the list is endless. That should be our focus. thanks for your input.

 

SCOTT GEARY..... .  bingo, right on the money with this statement...  "Somehow, each type of loan lost its vision of what it's market was."

Yes, it was all about greed.... loan officer greed... company greed... all the way up to Wall Street greed. And yes, it looks like we won't learn. I hope I am wrong.  It's still getting ugly out there and I predicted even 1 1/2 years ago that it could be until 2011.  Thanks for your input...

 

REBECCA.... .  well, it's one thing to work on a deal that you believe in... it's another to push one through that just doesn't belong. And worst of all, if you have to committ fraud to make this happen. That is part of the problem.  thanks

LARRY...... . you make a very good point. That is part of what was in my message, without stating it 110% for the obvious. I wanted to focus on the main issue that was mentioned above. That it comes down to the loan officer. Sure, would get into more specifics, but that would mean 3 to 5 different blogs then.  Overall, I would agree with your last statement, but as I mentioned, my main focus is that it's not one or the other... broker or banker... thanks

TERI...... .  well, there is living proof in what I showed and link to. And I agree, the finger pointing needs to stop. But this is how some sell though. It's just like the political wars on tv, making the other look bad and that they are the only one... thanks for your input.

 

7:04pm • #7
DEC
27
125,076 Points

Jeff: Thank you. The bottom line is the individual and their moral compass. Every day we pick up the paper and read about crooked bankers, mortgage brokers, escrow closers, etc. etc. They give all of us a bad name. Bankers and brokers tend to badmouth each other sometimes but the bottom line is the individual. How do they operate their business and what do they stand for?

10:02am • #8
DEC
28
352,391 Points 22 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff....I agree, but to be put in the same box as brokers, most bankers hate that.  I have the ability to broker, but I'll tell you most doctors want to be MD's not DOs.  PhDs don't want to compare themselves to MA's, Doctors con't consider Chiropracters as anything more than a therapist and resent the fact that Chiros are called "doctor" and Most Bankers hate being called brokers.  I think that it's because of what the difference is between the two....

9:12pm • #10
JAN
01
259,055 Points 102 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Brokers can fly under the radar and therefore have more of a chance to be renegade here.

How did those renegade brokers fund those loans, Larry?  The ultimate reward (added profit) goes to the ultimate responsibility (funding source).  Bankers are finally using the simplest of underwriting forms (IRS Form 4506) to verify income stated or documented.  Why didn't they use it before?

The answer is that they didn't WANT to know the true ability to repay the loan because the bankers' greed got in the way.

I have the ability to broker, but I'll tell you most doctors want to be MD's not DOs.  PhDs don't want to compare themselves to MA's, Doctors con't consider Chiropracters as anything more than a therapist and resent the fact that Chiros are called "doctor"

What a great analogy.  You do realize that MDs are being discovered as "licensed drug pushers". don't you?  MDs have compromised the integrity of their profession because of their unholy alliance with phramaceutical companies.  Chiropractic is the fastest growing segment of health care.

I've both banked and broked loans.  The very best originators and very worst originators gravitate towards the brokerage model.  The very worst come because the barrier for entry is low.  The very best choose brokerage because it is the ONLY chance a consumer has to get a a fiduciary relationship

 

10:27am • #11

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