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Mortgage Rep: I Don't Like Being Questioned Regarding Rate - Huh?

By
Real Estate Agent with Diamond Partners Inc 00244377

Here is my story about a loose cannon mortgage rep..... In a transaction that closed last week, we had a really bad mortgage guy who thought he was God. And, because he had so much control my clients and I tried not to make any waves when we were half way there and experiencing horrific customer service issues. The more we questioned this guy during the process the worse he was becomming and we were concerned that he would be vindictive - he was the guy pushing all the buttons. So, we didn't want to rock the boat because the buyers were living in a hotel room for the last few weeks waiting for a mortgage to be processed, and this guy was on a power trip. After closing we'd write a letter.

Well, we all know to be careful in how we communicate through email. ...Don't we? In putting a complaint letter together for my clients, I went through the emails this clown had sent. In chronological order:      

Hi Carol: On vacation, so I need to be short and sweet...1.3 years self-employed, 0 their own money...53% debt ratio ...they don't qualify for the home...if they want to try with a new lender, I encourage them to get a commitment letter without paying much money... I can work on arm products, temp buydowns, etc when i get back...but to be blunt, the borrower needs to save more money for me to consider this a responsible deal... 

A few days later he changed his tune once he heard that other lenders made it sound promising and would earn the business. My client also cleared up some non-issues that had been reported incorrectly and they also had gift money to put down. As we went forward with this mortgage rep, I emailed him back a few days later -

Me: How's it looking? - We started growing very nervous over this.  

His Reply: Why?  I tentatively got her approved with a 56% debt to income but I just want to confirm what income we are using...I did 5% with 2 pts on an fha 5-1 arm.

The next day my client emails him: Do you have the contact info for the person who is processing our loan? I think her name is Sue. Also, interest rates went down today I've been told by other lenders. Despite this, the mortgage rate monitor alert on your website continues to read 6.5%. Why is this? 

He replies: I'm confused by this and I need you to call me immediately on my cell phone.  You are locked in, and to be blunt this is the second time either you or Carol have inferred that you are still talking with other lenders.  It is impossibly busy and your loan will take a huge amount of work and exceptions to get done.  If you'd like, I can refund your money and we can part ways on friendly terms but I find it hurtful that after giving you a good rate and putting in extra effort to make your loan work, this type of thing keeps getting put in my face. 

I almost had a heart attack, but recovered quickly to shoot off this email: I'd like to comment on this - We needed to reach out to other lenders last week when you were on vacation and others from your office would not assist with this file. We needed an updated pre-approval letter last Monday but were told by those covering for you that one could not be provided for 3 days. We did not have 3 days to wait. As it was, the other buyer who the relocation company released from contracts on Monday got their commitment letter on Thursday. That's how close we would have cut it.  

So,  I suggested that the buyer reach out to one of the runners up - which I have no affiliation with at all but had a preapproval letter in my file with the reps name. He was able to deliver what we needed the same day. At my urging, She stuck it out waiting for you to return even when it seemed that those at your office who were supposedly covering did not want to service this file. At the same time you hinted that they did not qualify for the loan. A few days later you were sending us different signals and had a more positive outlook. 

I can't begin to tell you what an emotional roller coaster my client was on last week because  1) you were not available to assist or assess the situation. And, understandably everybody needs a vacation - but ...  2) nobody in your office could assist her.  3) You sent off a negative response stating that they do not qualify for the loan and as her agent I shared that with her  4) you suddenly became more positive about the situation 2 days later and insisted it could all work out after all.

 Now, what would any buyer in this situation have done? And,, what would any mortgage rep do (who was contacted last week by the buyer and knows he's competing for the business)? OK, she need not shop around any longer! But, I think it's pretty obvious and understandable another lender is seeking her out. And, so she advises you that interest rates went down - because other lenders told her. Should we be surprised by this? I don't think you should take this so personally.

His reply: Things have not gone well for us from the start, you are John Smith's business partner and I respect John completely.  This has been a challenging deal right from the start, compounded by the fact that I don't think the two of us mesh well.  I will try my hardest to get her into the home, but I don't feel that it was proper for you to suggest she call another lender after not getting a response for 3 days.  I've heard nothing but good things about you in the real estate community but I just think we got off to a poor start and things have gone down hill from there.  

I tried to help you from my hotel room in Vero Beach including 3 calls and 3 texts and drove to my office on Sunday night after my flight returned.  I've gone to my boss's boss to get an exception. ...I feel as though your expectation level on this loan is unrealistic (Please don't be offended at that, again sometimes two good-hearted people don't work out business-wise). 

I reply: BTW, None of the lenders she has talked to are ones I referred. The only one I referred that she actually followed up with was John Smith who referred her to you. I thought it might be worth mentioning that I have no alliances with anybody she was initially consulting with - other than getting a same day pre-approval last week by whoever would provide that service. I have been suggesting that she stay on track with your company. Why would we want to venture off coarse this late in the game? She is homeless come 12/13 ...with a baby ...and pregnant with a 2nd. - Just the pregnancy factor alone is one reason why we need to make this as stress -free as possible. I find that your email to her was a little harsh. You assumed she was still shopping. Perhaps you should take the time to read her inquiry over again - it was just a simple and innocent inquiry.  

His reply: Again, we could go back and forth on this all night.  I DO empathize with her plight....I close over 120 loans a year and never spend as much time on one loan as I've had to on this loan (and it's not even done yet) because I want her to get into the home.  That being said, she should have been properly pre-qualified/ more straight-forward regarding her income with whoever she initially started this process with. If I had to do it over again, I would have worded it more professionally.  I don't like being questioned regarding rate, especially considering rates are irrelevant in this case, but I certainly shouldn't have been as strong in my tone.

After that we needed to put our opinions about the situation aside and focus. 

10 days later he sends me an email: If the appraisal gets done and submitted this week and the loan gets a commitment by the 4th of Dec. that would give us 2 full weeks to clear conditions, get homeowners etc to close them on the 19th.  How does that sound? (but, we did not close until 12/31 and even that was a push - buyer paid $100 per night for hotel and add the cost of storage - homeless for the Christmas holiday).

As my clients began moving from their rental I contact him:  We would like a date. They have asked to move their items into the garage of the house and are living in a tiny hotel room. But relo won't allow it pre-occupancy (not even to store household items in the garage). The other agent said relo is calling him for a closing date. We are ALL getting pressure. The seller is asking for a closing date, the buyer is asking for a closing date, and frankly we are all ready to put this to rest before the holiday.

His reply: Understood, but remember...one week ago we didn't even have a commitment letter and I told everybody to expect January... (see previous email above - we were shooting for 12/19).

My Reply: Yes, I understand. But we have all wondered why it would take 3 weeks after a commitment letter to have a closing. Maybe you can educate me - is this due to FHA?  

His Reply: Sorry, can't debate today, insane refi volume...we will get it done before Christmas (who's debating? - I was just wanting him to educate me, if he just said "YES, becuase of FHA" ...but he didn't) 

Attorney's assistant emails him because by now they were advised of this guy's attitude and our clients are homeless, it's almost Christmas and so they have teamed up with me in trying to push for clearance to close which was based on going from conditional commitment to full commitment: Any updates on the loan commitment? Do we think it'll be issued today? 

His reply: No more emails on this, please... Everyone is working hard on this deal, this is counter-productive for me...Didn't mean this to be abrupt or rude, but I can't get 10 calls a day on this file...

Attorney's assistant forwards me the above with her comments: Hi Carol, This is my latest correspondence with the mortgage rep on this deal. Mind you, that this was my second email to him today.... I do not know how he does business this way. If the rest of us did we would have no clients. I am really put off by this. Sarah

In finishing this post, I'd say Sarah summed it up rather well! 

Posted by

_____________________________________________________________________________

Carol Culkin - REECENICHOLS REAL ESTATE

Carol Culkin - Licensed Real Estate Salesperson for ReeceNichols Real Estate, is your source for real estate in Overland Park and the bordering cities of Leawood, Olathe, Mission, Miriam, Lenexa and Shawnee, Stillwell and Spring Hill. Carol has been ranked as an award winning agent and offers her clients over 10 years of real estate experience.

PROFESSIONAL AFFILIATIONS, DESIGNATIONS AND COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT:

Member of National Associations of Realtors®, Member of Kansas Associations of Realtors®, Member of Kansas City Regional Associations of Realtors®, Member of Heartland Multiple Listing Services, Accredited Buyer's Representative (ABR), Seniors Real Estate Specialist (SRES), Red Cross Volunteer - Greater Kansas City Chapter, Supportor of Cross-Lines Community Outreach.

 
 

ReeceNichols Real Estate

8001 College Blvd Suiite 100

Overland Park, KS 66210

Office: (913) 451-4415
Cell: (913) 333-8310
   
 http://www.overlandparkhomelocator.com/  
 

                                 

 

Comments (84)

Jane..Jaishree Zilpelwar
listings, 1st Time or Move UpBuyer, short sale, forclosure, - Woodbury, NY
Realty Connect USA, Licensed Realtor

I had an experience like this but not to this extent. We were able to drop the mortgage broker (who drag the whole thing almost 2 months, changing interest rate constatly, did not lock the rate, to lock in @ 7.25% when the rate was 6%, etc) and got someone else who close the house in 2weeks very smoothly with 5.75%. Another experience with the 1st time buyer they choose their so called trusted friend and they completely rip them off with such a high closing cost, and what not, it was so sad to see at the closing table. I wish they had listen to my advice to speak with others and get Good Faith Estimate.

 

Jan 05, 2009 11:43 PM
The Somers Team
The Somers Team at KW Philadelphia - Philadelphia, PA
Delivering Real Estate Happiness

Holy moly... that is crazy !  Fortunately karma will do its thing on this mortgage "pro".  Chances are he will not do too much business in the future with no referral or residual business for sure.

Jan 06, 2009 12:30 AM
Wanda Promes
Sioux Falls, SD
Mortgage Loan Originator

Without knowing what the file actually looked like, it is hard for me to make a judgement on how tough this deal was.  I have been a lender for 20 years, and, I pride myself on working hard for my customers, communicating, being honest and upfront, and bending over backwards to make a deal go smooth. If I ever discover an error has been made on my end, I will do whatever is in my power to make my customer happy.  Things happen, that cant be helped. For one, we cannot control underwriters or things that go wrong there.  Its sounds tho, that this guy does alot of volume with not alot of support behind him to cover. He obviously had no idea what was really going on with the file in the process, and it sounds as if the file took waaaayyy too long to process anyway.  120 deals a year? That is not that much volume with 3 support staff. If you have good support staff, and you are a good loan officer, that would be easy to do with 1 support person.  I would agree with the blogger that stated "this is a churn and burn" guy.

Jan 06, 2009 12:42 AM
Dan Magstadt
Paramount Residential Mortgage Group, Inc - Lake City, FL

Amazing story!! As a mortgage professional I couldn't imagine treating anyone involved in the transaction like this!!

I'm shocked he's closing even one transaction a year with this kind of attitude!!!

Jan 06, 2009 12:54 AM
Paul McFadden
Responsive Pest Control - Seattle, WA
Pest Control, Seattle, WA.

Carol: Sorry to hear about this. It gives all of us a bad name. Better luck next time and, remember, the client can always change horses midstream! Take care.

Jan 06, 2009 01:00 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

@ Brian, America's #1 mortgage broker -  that's assuming that he even does 120 loans a year. Sure, he could knock them out if they were all approved/eligible or accept/accept. 

In regards to Carol using some of the e-mails as examples?  I have no problem with it. It's good for other consumers, realtors, and even loan officers to see this and possibly learn from it.

From the e-mails, it basically came down to lack of communication by the loan officer and not having the ability to set expectations for both the buyer and the realtors. As I mentioned before, if there was a very tough condition on paper, he should have brought this to everyone's attention. If not, it just sounds like he doesn't know what he or his staff is doing. We can't assume anything else without knowing the full details of the loan or the commitment.

 

@ Wanda... you made this comment...  "Its sounds tho, that this guy does alot of volume with not alot of support behind him to cover." 

Just curious, how can you assume that?  Especially when you first started off by saying that you can't judge how tough the deal was without looking at it?  Again, just curious....

jeff belonger

Jan 06, 2009 01:07 AM
Stephen Kappre
KW Hometown - Mantua, NJ
Helping You Home

Jeff good comment - it really is all about communication.  We aren't GOD - we can't approve everything, BUT we can all be on the same page. Really I thiink that is all people expect. 

Jan 06, 2009 01:17 AM
Brian Brady
Matthews Capital Markets - Tampa, FL
858-699-4590

I have no problem with it. It's good for other consumers, realtors, and even loan officers to see this and possibly learn from it.

Can we  assume that e-mail communication, to you Jeff, may be posted online, for "educational purposes", without prior consent?

Jan 06, 2009 01:45 AM
Carol Culkin
Diamond Partners Inc - Overland Park, KS
Overland Park Residential Real Estate

Jeff & Toby, I don't disagree. This might have been a hard loan. But, I'm not sure it ended up being as tough as what was initially thought in the first email. See, as I mentioned below that email  that there were some discrepancies which my client needed to clear up that ended up making the debt ratio much less. She had a student loan that was reported twice in error and one other item that needed correction. PLUS, he did not have the down payment. She actually had gift money he did not take into account. He sent the 1st email from Florida while on vacation - maybe his brain was fried. I discussed all this with my client and she replied to me - "Gee, but I told him"...and was sure to set him straight and get it clear up, My client is highly educated and makes a phenomenal income - he treated her like she was a ignorant. The purpose of my post was to bring to light the many customer service blunders. In the end she got a 5% fixed. In all fairness, he did a GREAT job on the loan, and he's been fishing for kudos since to feed his big ego. He has even followed up with making phone calls (feeling guilty? Service recovery?). Wants to know how the closing went and to be sure everybody is happy now. Bottom line, we were all very offended by his arrogance that it almost makes the rate seem uneventful.  

Brian Brady - America's #1 Mortgage Broker - I'm certain that an originator assumes a certain level of trust that his communications with a real estate licensee, about their mutual customer,  in whole or in part, will be held in confidence.  I know that I do and know that real estate agents expect the same from me.

I don't owe the originator nor does he owe me. A real estate licensee is obligated by law to share with their client (buyer or seller) any information that comes their way. Now, perhaps I should add that the first email was never conveyed to my buyer. She found out through ME. Yes, I even had to be the one to confront her about her financial situation and that's when it was determined early on that there were some discrepancies. I actually saw another email she sent to him after insisting that he keep her in the loop.  The only person I sign a confidentiality agreement with is my client - it also refers to obedience and loyalty. I owe the originator ZERO.

In regard to posting portions of the emails on the internet. Again, it all comes down to being careful what you put into an email. Yes, I'd say it's fair game. Wouldn't you? I did doctor it up enough to highlight only the certain problems I had with this guy's style of communication without specifics, names or personal info. I told a story by practically turning truth into fiction. No harm done.  

Carol, what did you learn from this unfortunate case?  Might I be so bold to ask what you might do to prevent such a thing from happening again?

Great question Brian! Yes, I learned that when I hear this guy's name again I will advise any and all people involved to RUN. I will discourage anybody from doing business with him. And I will have to beg my clients to call the reps who remain on my preferred list. This guy was actually referred by a business partner who couldn't do the loan through a credit union and now feels really bad about the referral. I found out he hadn't referred this guy too often in the past. He values my opinion and will take this very seriously as to not refer this jerk again.  I must say, even the attorney had a not so favorable opinion of this guy and told me so. I guess he's had dealings with him before. What's that tell you? BTW, as I mentioned above - he did do a great job. Got it closed, got a fantastic rate with a fixed. BUT, I am not sure this was as tough of a loan as he thought it would be from the beginning. The ratio got easier to work with and there was down payment money which made the loan much easier too. We had 2 other lenders saying it would be no problem while he was causing everybody worry. I guess the other thing I learned was if it doesn't feel right - shift gears. He's fishing for compliments now to feed the ego - wants to be the hero, and if it weren't for how he treated my clients and everybody else on our team, he probably would have earned their respect 10x over. Instead,

This post was intended to be all about the customer service aspect. So, let me ask you, would you EVER treat a client or their team (realtor/attorney) this way. By reading the number of comments above anybody can see just how much business would be lost as a result.

Dan - That's EXACTLY the point I had tried to make. It's all about THAT attitude. My client was the customer and I was a member of the team that he was suppose to work with. When he said he found it "hurtful" that she might still be shopping", I just wanted to scream "suck it up big boy and quit acting like a girl". When he said he doesn't like being questioned about rate, I wanted to remind him what kind of line of work he's in. He was the KING of DRAMA and at my client's insistence we stuck it out and I had to play nice/nice so he wouldn't make things worse for them. All the time my clients were ever so gracious and I had no other choice but to be nice to the creep.  

Jan 06, 2009 01:46 AM
Brian Brady
Matthews Capital Markets - Tampa, FL
858-699-4590

Hi Carol.  I tried to address your questions in my last comment but it appears that it either didn't make it through or was deleted.

Any reason why you elected to post this as "Members Only"?

Jan 06, 2009 03:29 AM
C Laverock
C Laverock - Accomac, VA

Just unbelievable.  The mortgage rep is an embarrassment to our profession.

It's so ridiculous, sounds like a skit from Saturday Night Live.

Jan 06, 2009 06:41 AM
Greg Cook
Platinum Home Mortgage - Temecula, CA
Mortgage Consultant NMLS ID# 283159

Carol, I've been a lender since 1981 and I'm not an apologist because obviously this guy had his priorities out of whack and was a lousy communicator. "I'm buried in refi calls?" What's with that?

I know you will never do business with him again, but at least recognize he got closed a 56% DTI with 1.3 years self-employment, with gift funds for down and closing on an FHA. (Conventional has no chance) If he's a broker or small banker he probably had to shop the loan so that may have contributed to the delay.

The burden of communication is on him and that is where he failed miserably.

76 comments on day one, obviously a sore subject for many.

 

Jan 06, 2009 07:24 AM
DEBORAH STONE
Balboa Real Estate San Diego, CA - San Diego, CA

Greg:

The Lender's job IS to close the loan. I think the point of the Blog, according to Carol, is the bad attitude and ego-trip this Lender was on, and his inflated opinion of himself....these are not what RE Agents should have to deal with. Service with a smile, not poor response time and "on vacation" as an excuse. I wouldn't last 5 minutes with my clients if I had this guy's attitude. He was way out of line.

Jan 06, 2009 07:36 AM
Stephen Kappre
KW Hometown - Mantua, NJ
Helping You Home

Greg -

You are 100% right - the CRAZY thing is this guy could have been a HERO if he communicated.

Jan 06, 2009 07:45 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

I am just beyond busy with refinances.....  but I will make this quick...  LOL  <just had to get that in there>

@ greg and @ Deborah....    Greg, in my honest opinion, that part is irrelevant, that he closed a difficult loan. It's how he set everyone's expectations. If it's a tough deal, I tell everyone and what we need to get it done. As Carol mentioned, the ratio must have dropped lower, because they finally got her true income, in which case she made more. Again, all of that is irrelevant. It's having a commitment letter 2 weeks before settlement and taking over 3 weeks to close...  something wasn't explained correctly then or not brought up. I blame that on the loan officer.

This topic is sore, even from a loan officers persepctive because... yes, we make mistakes... but this was an over-inflated ego who had a power trip, thinking that he was the only game in town. They finally closed after telling the realtor that he locked into a 5/1 arm at 5% and ended up giving the borrower a 5% 30 yr fixed...

If he had to shop it around, you tell people this....  in which case, he should have never issues a pre-qual. Again, poor communication. If he got an accept/accept on this, then there is no issue unless there was something else that he didn't bring to anyones attention.

 

Carol.....   it's just sad... again, we all treat business differently, but even if on vacation... you either ask the consumer to wait a few days... but he said he would work on it and it took him 3 days. You also said many times that you went to voicemail. That is not acceptable. I can't get all of my calls, but if this goes on for some time period, it's usually a good reason that he is just trying to ignore your calls. That's when I call from another number.  And if I am that busy, I ask people to just e-mail me... I can sometimes get back faster...  it helps when you have e-mail that goes to your cell or a blackberry. Some people disagree with this... but it's just how I operate. Overall, he just never set this clients expectations correctly in the beginning. He misled on the time frame issue and it became even a greater issue at the end...

@ Brian... I'll answer that later....  I just got 120 more refinances. Gee, I just topped this loan officers total production from last year... lol

PS.... Carol, I sent you an e-mail, but never heard back from you.  jbelonger@ihmci.com

jeff belonger

Jan 06, 2009 07:50 AM
Stephen Weakley
Nationwide Mortgage Services - Rockville, MD

Let's just hope that with the new licensing requirements, individuals like this will be a thing of the past.  Without excellent customer service, none of us will survive in this market.

In the future, FHA loans are binary in nature, underwriting is either approved or refer.  If you have an approval, you can take the loan anywhere and get it done.  If they give you attitude, tell them you are taking your business elsewhere.

Steve

Jan 06, 2009 08:24 AM
Dave Muti
Mortgage & Home Finance Expert - Parsippany, NJ
Mortgage & Home Finance Expert

Everyone is focusing on the terrible service this mortgage broker provided (and yes it looks that way) but the bigger issue is why is anyone encouraging this buyer to buy a home?  The focus should be on the buyer and not how to get a deal closed.  We as professionals need to talk clients out of purchasing when it is not in their best financial interest.

Your post indicates that they had a DTI ratio of 56 (not sure if back or front) which is way too high to be buying a house.  That compounded with they had no savings and were only self-employed for 1.5 years spells disaster.  This client should have been counseled to build savings, increase earnings, establish a longer and stable work history and then begin their search for a home when their DTI ratios were down in the low 30’s.  I have a feeling that this buyer will become a statistic; I hope I am wrong.
Dave

Jan 06, 2009 09:13 AM
Jeff Belonger
Social Media - Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc - Cherry Hill, NJ
The FHA Expert - FHA Loans - FHA mortgages - USDA loans - VA Loans

@ Dave... you are assuming and didn't read everything....  that was the lender saying that it was a 56% dti... and that once the true income was revealed, the ratio dropped.  Secondly, you have no idea if the borrower has other income that can't be used....  there are to many unknows for us to sit back and make the same statement that you do.  Again, just to many unknowns to get into that kind of discussion.  That is just my opinion....

jeff belonger

Jan 06, 2009 09:19 AM
Betty Byrnes
F C Tucker/Tomlinson REALTORS - Kokomo, IN

Carol,

I swear as I read your posting, I had to go back to the top to see where you are. I could have sworn you were right here in Kokomo, IN and that you were talking about my "nightmare" lender!

I will not work with a client who choses this "nightmare". I will do everything in my power to discourage them and if they want to use him, I will refer them to another realtor. Life is too short! 

Jan 07, 2009 11:10 AM
Gerry Suarez Jr.
New American Funding NMLS 6606 - Orlando, FL
FL Mortgage Guru

wow, can't believe I had missed this whole thing. I guess I had too many refi's yesterday!:-))

Carol I also see this as strictly a failure by that loan officer to effectively communicate with you and your mutual customer. You can easily pick up the clues as to why this happened.

-120 deals a year!

-A vacation he was trying to enjoy

-A renewed refi boom in an otherwise slow market

-A holiday season that lessens everyone's productivity

but these are all excuses. During that same time I was telling my customers to brace for the last two items mentioned because I knew they would serve to slow the loan process. That's me, and that's why I don't take refinance deals from anyone who was not a past customer or family.

All told the guy did get a difficult deal done for you, but he blew it in communicating. I must admit though, sometimes all the communication in the world isn't enough, when you can't say what someone wants to hear. Personally I was berated at Countrywide years ago for spending too much time with my customers. There are lenders who think that way, and they shouldn't be doing government loans IMHO.

I hope as Realtors you can all learn from this one. You should ask your lenders "how much of your business is refinances" and know what you are getting into if they answer "most of it!".

I'm sorry for you and even more for your customers, but I do hope they are enjoying their new home.

Gerry Suarez, Jr.

Your FHA Loan Pro!

 

Jan 08, 2009 12:13 AM