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Stalemate - The Foreclosure Dilemma for Banks and Buyers

By
Real Estate Agent with Long & Foster 0225078705

If you really rack your mind for explanations of the current real estate condition in the US these days I believe the term "Stalemate" best describes the dilemma.  From what I am hearing from many agents... is that banks do not want to negotiate the price of "Bank owned" properties.  Why?  First of all it acknowledges that the assets of banks may not be as good as they would like you to believe.  In fact it may point to the banks are really insolvent.  Think of banks that hold 1000 mortgages at 600K.  Perhaps today they may be worth only 350K each. How can a bank write this off under fractional banking?  The banks cannot take a loss on any of these products without acknowledging they are insolvent or totally upside down.  The banks cannot sell the toxic assets to anyone, the government is not buying the bad debt, and under fractional banking if they did sell a few of these products at a great loss only to infuse cash into the coffers to keep them fluid...they place them self in a position to lend less money, thus putting them in a more dire state.  That is the nature of fractional banking. Fractional banking works on a multiplier effect.  An example would be...If I place $10 in the bank... they can lend a $100.  If they lose the $100 now they cannot lend $1000.  That is basically how it works.  That is why a new Federal banking rule that was supposed to take place last fall for bank reform - was postponed in implementation until next year.  Otherwise you would know how bad things really are.  So that explains a lot of what is happening in real estate.  It is a statement.  Banks are between a rock and a hard place to do anything.  "Damnedif you do, damned if you don't!"  It is a market where seller's want to sell but can't, and buyer wants to buy but realize things are not as they appear!  That explains the buyers fear and aprehension.  Buyers are frozen in place with the reality they can still lose more.  Buyers may still be over paying in this market because there are too many new agents with little or no experience in these types of deals to advise their cleints.  These agents do not realize they are being had! by the banks.

So hence the games of agents writing up offer after offer, and being rejected by the bank.  The banks will come back and tell you there are other offers on the table, but will offer no proof of it.  Why?  Because there are no other offers, or if there are other offers they are 1000% worse than your own.  Recently I was told on a foreclosure for myself, that there were 5 other offers on teh table.  This is now 5 months later and the home is still active on the market with the same price.  Smart or experienced agents would either demand proof in writing from the bank that they in deed have offers, or advise their clients to sign a release that you cannot verify if that statement is correct.  They may even advise their clients to step back or with draw an offer.  As a buyers agent you must be in a position to protect your client first rather than place the commission first.  You must understand the rules of the game, and what a "Stalemate" really is.  Just because a home is listed as a foreclosure does not make it a great deal!  Until we start to see absolute auctions, banks are in a quandry of wanting to sell, but cannot take the loss.  "Caveat Emptor!  Buyer beware!"

Posted by

James Crawford Broker Associate

Long & Foster Fredericksburg Virginia

678-595-5286 Direct

 

Fredericksburg VA Real Estate Agents, Spotsylvania County Homes for Sale, Spotsylvania County VA Homes, Stafford County VA Homes, and City of Fredericksburg VA – Luxury Homes, Lots, Land, and New Home Construction. Buying or Selling Call Me!  

 

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Tim Maitski
Atlanta Communities Real Estate Brokerage - Atlanta, GA
Truth, Excellence and a Good Deal

Jim,  I've been seeing some bank foreclosures come on the market at some ridiculously low prices.  They do seem to get multiple offers and they do come up in a few weeks as being sold.  Some banks seem to be taking some huge hits.

I showed one this morning in the Pope HS district that went on the market yesterday for $164,900.  It had sold in 2001 for $225,000 and it was almost in move in condition.  The bank had a $228,000 mortgage on it.  Unfortunately for my buyer, it had an offer submitted to the bank at noon today before my first time investor could get his financing together.

I guess these are the banks who are sucking it up and getting on with business.

Most of the foreclosures I've dealt with are listed with an agent.  Would they be breaking the code if they lied about offers in hand?  I find that more often, they don't tell you that they have an offer unless you specifically ask about it.  If you just ask whether it's still available, they'll say yes.  They won't say that they have 3 offers on the table unless you specifically ask that question.

Jan 06, 2009 10:09 AM
John King
Bluefax Realty, LLC - San Antonio, TX
President & Broker

I've had a lender owned property "with an offer" on it, stay on the market for months.  We subsequently submitted a second offer months later, to be told that there was again another offer as well.  It's still on the market to this day.  I have advised my buyer to just steer clear of this one.

Jan 06, 2009 10:21 AM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

WEICHERT, REALTORS® - Synergy  Nonsense!  If they have identified the risk they would be closed.   Some people are afraid to discuss the realities of this market, and that does not change what is really occurring.  That is why we are in the mess we are in. No one wants to really question anybody.  Sort of like not looking at our brokerage statements means we have not lost anything.  The SEC was supposed to overseeing Madoff also!  What happened there? So what is your explanation of what happened and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?  So you say this cannot happen in banks?  That is why we have a credit crunch!

Jan 06, 2009 11:29 AM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

John Walters (7824 Real Estate of Louisiana)  Under the current system they are frozen in place.  It is a stalemate.  There is no way to correct the loss without propping up the inflated prices of housing.  Think about any viable alternatives...

Jan 06, 2009 11:36 AM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

Tim Maitski "Secret Agent Guy" (HomeAtlanta.com)  Lie?  How unreal estate like.  In almost every state oral contracts are illegal.  It is the same as disclosure.  If it isn't in writing, there is no way to verify you are being had. I assume many banks are better at it that most agents realize.  It is a game of chicken.  I would bet money most agents will not ask to have it put in writing that there is another offer.  So then are they really working in their buyers interests?  Yes every so often they have to let something go to get some liquidity. In GA right now on our own FMLS there are sometimes hundreds of foreclosures per zip code.  So how do the banks set it right if the govt. is not buying toxic assets?

As far as verification for buyers...in some states they can black out the details and initial the first page of the contract... and fax you the sheet.  Then at least you have somthing. It is fraud if there are no other parties, and it it is foolish to proceed without checking.  There was a major case in CA a few years back where a buyer was told there was another contract, he kept bidding and went way over the top to buy a home.  Guess what?  No other contracts, no other offers.  A top tier national real estate company lost millions in court.  FRAUD!

As far as other offers on the table, if you asked first, the answer is "NO!"  When you submit the offer they tell you "Oh we have other offers on the table!"  Sound familiar?  They are playing the agents that have never worked this market and are very trusting!  It is a con game!

Jan 06, 2009 11:48 AM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

John King ~ San Antonio Real Estate ~ (210)445-2631 (Mission Realty)  There are loads of deals like that one other there.  If there are legitimate offers on the properites...why do they show "ACTIVE" most of the time in the MLS?

Jan 06, 2009 11:49 AM
Anonymous
Phil

I have experienced some corporate sellers doing as you describe, but others continue to discount until sold. I thought the banks had insurance (PMI) on all their loans that would cover losses so they would sell at whatever the market price becomes.  I have even heard of banks holding off foreclosures to help their "ratios"!

It makes sense a lender who made foolish loans would also handle their REO's in a foolish manner!

The stalemate ends when the bank goes out of business and then someone like HUD markets them by lowering prices on a regular basis until they are sold.

 

Jan 06, 2009 12:03 PM
#9
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

Phil  Banks outfoxed themselves in the last few years with their greed.  We had 80/20 loans which lead to 80/15/5 loans, and 80/10/10 all of these loans did the most foolish thing imaginable...they avoided PMI!  So guess what?  No Insurance to cover the gap lost! Then we compounded it with 100% + loans that would eventually screw up everything else around them and place the 80/20, the 80/10/10's upside down and no insurance on them to cover the banks when they fall into foreclosure.  Greed is insidious.

Jan 06, 2009 12:09 PM
Esko Kiuru
Bethesda, MD

Jim,

Many banks are still hiding non-performing assets on their books and the government bailout money just goes to cover some of that, not to help needy homeowners.

Jan 06, 2009 02:48 PM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

Esko Kiuru - Las Vegas NV Mortgage Consultant (Sinifox Financial) I agree.  During previous downturns the banks would unload foreclosure inventory with "Absolute Auctions!"  So now when they have more foreclosures than the "Great Depression" they are not doing this?  It doesn't make any sense...unless they can't.

If you have lent out 600K...100% loan... it is now worth 400K.  Can you eat the 200K loss?  Where does the money come from?  It is like a buyer client in real estate demanding his Real estate agent buy them lunch at a high class restaurant.  The buyers reasoning?  "You can write it off!"  So now, what make the average real estate agent believe banks can write off the losses of 100 or 1000 loans.  It does not work that way, and never will.

Banks can withstand several losses, but not high percentages of residential loans, let alone commercial loans, credit card loans, ALT-A etc.  Sooner or later it ends when everyone realizes the 'Stalemate' position they are in.

Jan 06, 2009 03:20 PM
Sandy Shores FL Realtor®, Melbourne Real Estate
M & M Realty of Brevard Inc. - Melbourne, FL
Brevard County Real Estate, Florida's Space Coast

Hi Jim, Here in Florida, we are finding that it depends on the bank we are trying to work with as to whether or not they are interested in moving these foreclosures off the books or whether the are going to sit on their hands.  Some of them can be a waste of time, as the banks are not giving any leeway at all.  As you mentioned, just because it's a bank foreclosure, doesn't mean that it's a great deal.  Thanks for the post!

Jan 07, 2009 01:12 AM
Glenn S. Phillips
Lake Homes Realty - Birmingham, AL
CEO, Lake Homes Realty / LakeHomes.com

Jim, great discussion.... great discussion.  You keep bringing thoughtful discussion to AR.  Much appreciated! G

Jan 07, 2009 01:28 PM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

Sandy Shores, Brevard County Florida's Space Coast (M & M Real Estate Inc.) Write offs can only go so far in life.  If a real estate agent made 100K last year can you write off 450K? Could you do it and not go bankrupt?  Could you operate a real estate company like that?  So why do so many real estate agents think they can do this?

Jan 07, 2009 03:41 PM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

Glenn Phillips (Management, Coach, Speaker) (RealSource) Thanks! I am just on the edge of my seat like everyone else trying to figure out where this is all going!

Jan 07, 2009 03:42 PM
Terry Miller
Miller Homes Group - Tyler, TX
Miller Homes Group and Tyler Apartment Locator

What a great post. We are having great luck on our Real Estate side of the business turning folks to other listings now, as the banks don't seem to want to get along with any body.

Terry Miller

Jan 08, 2009 05:29 AM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

Terry Miller ("Now What?" Training, Coaching and Motivation)Thanks. I personally know a lot of persons doing much better with foreclosures with smaller companies, and buying resale homes from motivated individuals.

Jan 08, 2009 07:20 AM
Richard Stabile
Re/Max Real Estate Limited - Oradell, NJ
Bergen County New Homes Builder Realtor

Jim:

It only so long that banks can not mark to market. It is going to catch up. The biggest stupidity is the faster they sold the bad loan homes off the less loses they would have to take.

Many banks will still fail due to their 10 x leverage. Let's face it they were to use 10 x and have a 20% min down payment. Which puts them under total water at 30% or more, not including interest not being paid. It would be bad, but maybe they would survive. The more I think about it the more I feel let the banks close be bought out, what ever. They are only in the way now, they caused their own peril. The sooner the better we get rid of their disease.

Richard

 

Jan 08, 2009 01:21 PM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA

Richard Stabile Bergen County New Homes Builder Realtor (REMAX real estate associates)  Really when you think about it, what makes a bad loan good?  Who should really be responsible.  The bank officers that allowed a waiver of PMI, and calculated the rate of the loan  based on risk, the purchaser, or the US Public?  I think it is absolutley criminal, that the US Congress has chose to burden the law abiding citizens of this country with the bad debt!  No investigations, no indictments, and no explanation!

Jan 08, 2009 01:35 PM
Rich Mielke
REMAX Results, Frederick MD - Frederick, MD
REALTOR, Frederick Maryland Real Estate

I am finding some big differences in prices on REO properties in the same neighborhoods. In a declining market area, they are in for a rude awakening.

Jan 09, 2009 10:36 PM
Jim Crawford
Long & Foster - Fredericksburg, VA
Jim Crawford Broker Associate Fredericksburg VA