Today is just one of those days that I wished I had just slept in and taken the day off work - so I am going to take a break and write for a moment so that the I do not bite off the head of the next person that walks through the door!  With that said - I am taking a moment to breathe deeply and count to ten.  :-)

I am not new to the business as I have been a full time Realtor in the Antelope Valley for over 6 years - but it has just been the past few months that I have started working short pays again.  When I first got my license I did one or two in Lancaster & Palmdale, but it seems like these days they are much harder to do - I don't know - maybe it is me because I am getting older and we live in the information age where we have 24/7 access to the Internet, Instant Messenger, 24 hour news channels and the list goes on and on .....  so this being the case why does it take the bank 4 weeks to tell us that they will not accept a short pay??? 

Now I know that the loss mitigators are very over worked and have huge case loads - so this is NOT a personal attack on them.  I am sure that their job really stinks because they are dealing with stressed & emotional homeowners (and agents) . I imagine that since the banks are taking losses on these loans they are probably not hiring an excess amount of staff to process these requests -but what is it going to take for the banks to wake up and smell the coffee that the current system they use is probably costing them much more money in the long run! 

I am not sure how the rest of you agents out there feel about this, but it drives me nuts to not be able to get any kind of an answer as to where our file is in the pile of hundreds on their desk.  I always try to ask how long to expect to wait before I get any kind of returned call. I do not want to call to much as I know their voice mails are full - and I do not want to wait to long as we are usually running up against an auction date.  I am only able to get e-mail address from about 1/2 of the banks I am trying to work with and even then I seldom get a reply.  But it seems to me that they would be able to run things much smoother if they used a system like transaction point so we can access 24/7 and see exactly where our file is - and what has been done.  Depending on which bank I am dealing with I am sometimes able to at least get a real person who can  usually not tell me much other then "yes they got the paperwork" or "it is in review". 

I guess the reason this is irritating me so much today is that I have been working on a deal with a lender - who bounces you from the loss mitigators to their attorneys.  The attorney I was dealing with was actually very nice and as helpful as she could be - but mostly they seem to be nothing more then the paper pushers and can not make any real decisions and they tell you to call back loss mitigation. When I told the attorney I had left several messages and had no phone calls in over 10 days she suggested to keep calling - hang up and call again over and over again until he answered.  First of all if I was on the receiving end of a phone that rang like that and I finally picked up the phone I would probably put what ever file was being called about back to the bottom of the stack.  So that was not an option I choose to do - instead I pushed different extensions until I finally got a live person and they were able to transfer me to a manager who looked up the file and told me it was still in review - after I pointed out to her it was going to auction the next business day  (Monday) her response was- well they are coming in this weekend to work on things. 

Now I do appreciate the fact that they are working late and coming in on the weekends - but how happy is that going to make that employee giving up family time to spend all weekend at work?? Do you think they are going to try to sit down and look close at the files to approve them.. no - they will take a peak and say "no" and move on - which is fine is you still have some time before the sale - but when they come in on Saturday and your sale is on Monday morning how are we supposed to go back and try to get the buyer to raise the price?? 

In the example I am referring to I do not think that we would have been able to work out the deal anyway because the attorney told me that the lender will only discount at the most 15% the total loan amount - which again makes no sense if the house was way over leveraged to begin with and the market has declined at least 15% in this particular market place.  I even sent a copy of the information from realtytrac showing that there were already 330 bank owned properties in that zip, 191 going to auction in the next 21 days and 631 in pre -foreclosure (and this zip code does not cover a very large area).

Anyway- I guess my whole point to this is that if we had known even on Sunday the offer was rejected then maybe we could have gotten a counter offer for a higher amount to the buyer.  I had the house listed over 60 days and $25,000 under market value. I told the buyer to make sure they gave me a best and final offer - although I still think he would have gone higher.  I only had 1 other agent show the house plus the offer I got.  How do the banks think that they will be able to net more money in the long run for a home that we already had priced below market and in a County with a huge amount of foreclosures??

This is not about the loss of a commission check to me (although a payday from all the time spent on the phone would have been nice) .There has just got to be a better way for the banks to keep us up to date on status. There are a lot of really good people out there who are just trying to salvage what they can of their dignity and walk away from their home with their head not dragging to the ground.

 
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166 Comments on How do we get the banks to get with the Short Sale Program??

MAY
01
2007
103,445 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Donna - Just commenting to say, " I hear You". Not much I can offer in way of help. It does seem to take a long time for the banks these days. i have actually had them go to foreclosure and take thousands less than the offer I had for them. Hopefully, soon it will be less hectic for all of us! Best!
7:07pm • #1
1 Featured Post

Wow. It looks like you did everything you could. I've been around a few years but hadn't worked any short sales lately. It sounds like they are really getting harder.

By the way, it sounds like you did everything you could to track the files down. If they're buried and you can't get hold of anyone there's not much left to do.

7:24pm • #2
129,211 Points 25 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Donna, Lenders tipically have there own set of rules to follow. It is not predicated on any form of logic, emotion or even common sense. It is just a set of rules that they follow. I have done several short sales over the years and belive me when I say that Lenders could care less how others do it.

Small Critique here. Your post was very hard to read. All bold and two long of paragraphs. Very it a lttle makes for much better reading.

7:48pm • #3
365,633 Points 63 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Hi Donna,

When I read your post, a number of things came to mind. I need to read it over very carefully again so as not to jump to any incorrect conclusion.

This is such a volatile issue that I will not show a short sale property until I am assured that the listing agent had sought and received pre-approval before I would even consider dragging one of my clients through this very difficult transaction. I no longer will list a short sale property unless I can get pre-approval from the lender in advance.

Your post was excellent and well timed for the professional and the consumer.

All my very best wishes and I hope it all works out for all of you.

7:52pm • #4
115,058 Points 9 Featured Posts Outside Blog

The lenders are many times insured against the mortgage loss.  This is part of the reason that they make decisions that to most people seem stupid.  In order to take the payoff from the insurance company, they need to incur the loss.  The insurance payout is what they are after, not your offer.  Not always, but sometimes. 

8:03pm • #5
150,769 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Hit Router

Donna, I'm experiencing the same thing, the lenders are not set up for this and don't seem to want to accommodate easier access. I'm working with one where I have to call customer service every single time and give all my customer's information before they will decide to transfer me to the department I asked for from the start.  Of course, no direct number, neither. Rich is making an excellent point!  Just hang in there!

8:45pm • #6
1 Featured Post

Hi Everyone - I am new to AR and have made most of the changes suggested - thank you! I will remember them for the future.

Rich - thank you for the insight about them taking the loss from the insurance company -I never thought about that.  This is a silly question but are the only loans insured FHA & loans with PMI?

I know that short sales are only accepted about 20% of the time - and I do not mind putting the work and time into them if the seller has a true hardship.  My frustration is mostly the lack of communication from the lenders.  Short sales are nothing new - they have been around for years - although probably not as frequent over the past 5 years you would think they would be able to set up a system to make it more streamline. I tell everyone of my clients that the chance of getting once accepted is very slim - but they only do it as a last hope effort to try to keep some self respect.

As the listing agent of several short sales- I have not had one lender give me a "pre-approval" on a dollar amount of the sale. Most tell me they will not do anything until I have an offer - and to submit the whole package together.  I do have two lenders that have been very good and one ordered an appraisal within the first week of the listing.  The other lender did tell us that my client did "qualify" for a ss but I had to have it listed for 60 days first.

8:47pm • #7
365,633 Points 63 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Way to go Donna! 

I agree with your rebuttal. One reason why I try and avoid the potential quagmire.  Might be material for a good second post on the subject.

8:59pm • #8
1 Featured Post
Donna, it sounds like you have had several experiences with short sales. This is just starting to occur here in AZ you might do a good turn with sharing some thoughts/experiences that helped you to give us some idea as we begin to fight this battle.
10:32pm • #9
MAY
05
2007

Donna,

I'm a new agent (less than 1 year) with a very strong mortgage background.  I have a client that is very interested in picking up a property that is either a short sale or foreclosure.  I had no idea what I getting us into by sending these listings to him.  We bid on a property that had been listed as a short sale for 60 days only to find out that the agent had 2 full price offers that were waiting for response from the back.  These people had been waiting 60 days for an answer.....I was stunned.  As much as I know that lenders are not in the business of holding onto real estate, it's very hard for me to explain this to my client when he wants to believe that the lenders are holding out for higher bids and maybe then they will respond. 

I agree with Jim, that any information you can give us to will help us to determine the next steps if we find ourselves either as listing agents or selling agents on these distressed homes. 

Thank you.

 

 

 

3:41pm • #10
MAY
06
2007
1 Featured Post

I wish that I had some answers as to what the banks are thinking ... my guess is they just are so busy they are not thinking. Although if you really want me to be honest - had they been thinking in the first place we would not have the amount of foreclosures that we now have. There was a time, not that long ago, that almost anyone over 18 with a pulse could get a loan. They were not "pretty" loans - but they gave the opportunity to have the "American Dream" and own a home.

I am not trying to bash mortgage brokers - they were just selling the loans that were available on the market.  And I can totally understand someone wanting to be a homeowner, but I personally made it a point not to put my clients into those "really really creative" loans (unless they were a seasoned investor). You know the ones that I am talking about - the ones that allowed you to say you made $7,500 a month and you worked at a fast food restaurant as a cashier part time and needed no proof other then you "stated" you make that much. Now I will admit that scenario is a little exaggerated ... but not by a heck of a lot!

Again - not trying to bash anyone - but if you are at the stage in your life that you are just barely making ends meet and then try to buy a house in the $300,000 - $450,000 as a first time buyer with 100% financing - how long are you really going to be able to keep those payments up with electric bills in the $300-$500 range when you are running your a/c (for those of you reading that do not live in Palmdale or Lancaster we typically hit over 103 during the summer) not to mention gas over $3.00 a gallon and occasionally we like to eat. Oh I almost forgot we also have to pay our property taxes...ouch!

Anyway - what is done is done and we can not go back and change it, so I will get off my soap box and try to give you some tips if you have a buyer for a short sale:

If you are working a buyer and want to show a home that is "listed" as  a short sale, My first suggestion would be to talk to the agent first. See if: 1) the agent has experience with short sales 2) who is the lender 3) Is it a federally insured loan 4) Is there a first & a second 5)  Is the loan is a recourse loan or a non recourse loan 6) how many payments did they make before they defaulted 7) Are the sellers insolvent, and does the seller have a TRUE hardship. 8) and most importantly are they already behind in payments, and has the NOD been filed yet.

I have found several listings and the sellers are not yet behind in payments. These deals will take a VERY long time close. Most lenders will not discuss any kind of short sale or loan modification until you have missed at least 1 payement.  Now I am not suggesting to tell the clients to stop payment - but if the lenders are being paid why would they take less?

Now most likely the lender will not  consider it is a hardship if the seller can not make their payments just because their rate & terms went up unless there has been a death, loss of job, divorce  or some sort of major life change since the loan was taken out.  If the listing agent can and will answer those questions - and the answers were all in favor of the short sale, proceed showing your buyer. Also ask the listing agent if the complete short sale package is already complete and only waiting for an offer to be submitted to the bank (the complete package should include at least: A hardship latter, the sellers income tax returns for the last 2 years, last 3 months bank statements, last 2 months paychecks or SSI or what ever income they have or why they no longer have income, and any other supporting documents that will support the hardship: divorce papers, death certificate, work pink slip, doctors note - etc.)

If you are a California RE Agent you CAN work with investors and you CAN find them homes in default - but unless they are buying the home as their primary residence you can not represent them. Huh?? I know are probably confused and  I know that sounds odd - and I to have it explained to me a couple of times before I finally was able to "get it".

If you do not understand how to do it - ask your broker-if they do not know call the CAR Attorneys-they are very helpful, they also have some great resources on their website  http://www.car.org/ go to legal and you will find a bunch of good articles that relate to California Foreclosures. Basically to get paid on this type of transaction you will have to terminate your "Buyer Agency" with your investor and refer them to the listing agent.  The CAR forms you will need to use for this type of transaction: Termination of Buyer  Agency (TBA), Home Equity Explanation & Agency Agreement (HEAA) Notice of Default Purchase Agreement (NODPA).

My guess is that if you show a short sale,and do not call the listing agent first and submit the above forms they will have no idea why you are using them. They may even tell you that YOU are using the incorrect paperwork. One of the biggest problem I see today is that agents are taking on these sales and are not educated in what to do. If you do not know ASK someone who does know, and most importantly DO NOT GIVE LEGAL OR TAX ADVICE to your sellers unless you are an attorney or a CPA, even then I would probably tell them to talk to someone else just to protect yourself. If you take a short sale listing DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE, DISCLOSE that there are NO guarantees the lender will agree to a short sale and that they MUST seek advice on possible tax consequences.

Most importantly - when and if you decide to work short sales - do NOT guess. It could cost you or your client THOUSANDS of dollars if the wrong forms are used. Hopefully I have not scared you off because you should show the short sales - your client could get a great deal, plus you may be helping out a really nice person get out of a really bad situation.

 

3:18am • #11
1 Featured Post

Donna, there is soooo much misinformation about the short sale process... mostly from the pitchmen selling books "Get Rich Quick"books or seminars.  There are several thousand posts written by TheShortSalePro addressing realistic and ethical preforeclosure short sales on the TCI Short Sale Forum  I think membership is free.

Many/most folks new to this workout technique fail to appreciate the difference between "lenders" and "servicers" and "investors"  and "insurors" and what roles all interested parties play when seeking preforeclosure short sale approval.

 

7:06am • #12
239,245 Points 56 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Donna, excellent post. Haven't read your comments yet but need to get to clients. Your thoughts are the thoughts of many of us. It's time for the Banks to step up and turn around their turn around time. Many don't even want to show a short sale due to that very fact. Why put a Buyer through all that and waste time only to find out they have been rejected. Considering how many defaults and foreclosures we have right now, it is important the Banks realize that this is not the way to do business.

You are the Featured article for the Week.Featured ArticleCongrats!

8:33am • #13
1 Featured Post

"Why put a Buyer through all that and waste time only to find out they have been rejected?"

You are absolutely correct, and have identified what may be called putting the cart before the horse.  That's why it is important to quickly establish short sale criteria for THAT specific loan type, with THAT specific loan servicer.  A deal that fails to close due to a lack of an understanding of the process and some proactive prequalification (homework) of the short sale candidate is a disservice to all those involved.

 

8:45am • #14
1 Featured Post

So much to read, so little time...what stood out was a comment of only 20% of short sales are approved?  Would love to know what others are experiencing.  I think the public and Realtors are under the delusion that REOs and short sales are always going to go through.  Knowing the top ten tips and the statistics, and than implementing them would be a blessing.  Just submitted an offer for REO yesterday.  Have had two short listings way back last year before the word was even out-did not go through, because in one case the bank thinks they could get more money.  Year later and foreclosure, property is up for sale for over 6 months at a lower price than what we brought to the table and is still too high. Other listing wanted the seller to take out a personal loan for the short. 

When will the banks be motivated to listen to the market specialists..an appraisal will only use comps not what the market is bearing. 

 ANY Help out there?

1:40pm • #15
1 Featured Post
Perhaps poorly constructed or incomplete/non conforming short sale proposals are only successful 20% of the time.  I've been doing them for 25 years... and have seen the majority close.  Not every upside down scenario indicates short sale.  Prequalify.  Prequalify.  Prequalify.
1:55pm • #16
MAY
07
2007
1 Featured Post
Thank you! Knowing that someone out there does get them to closed helps!
10:55am • #17
MAY
08
2007

For those of you that would like to know how I can help you www.activerain.com/shim101

Hi my name is Simon Rosenzweig, I provide services and advice to people that are involved in real estate transactions.

I am dedicated to helping people with their title insurance and 1031 exchange needs. I provide quick and efficient service, plus you get me dedicated to helping you with your real estate needs.

1:10pm • #18
222,260 Points 12 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
You seem to know a lot about short sales.  I hope you haven't had to do too many.  Thanks for your wisdom. 
7:58pm • #19
MAY
09
2007
114,008 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Donna you may get a call from me! I have an AR listing that didnt alert me until 30 days into the listing they are 3 months behind.Obviously there is panic as our market is sitting for months. Countrywide 1st and Citigroup 2nd . They dont want to talk until buyer arises. Seller- Upside down of course, prepayment penalties..the works. Neighborhood that is majority doublewides and this is a two story home nicely finished. I am getting no traffic due to the neighborhood.  any suggestions or creative ideas ?
8:31pm • #20
102,128 Points Outside Blog

Donna, hey there.  You are so sharp.  I love reading all you write and learn so much from you.  Unlike you, I am a fairly new agent, as you know.  I haven't had to do short sales yet, but am trying to learn all I can. 

BTW, I read your statements in the paper the other day.  That was cool. 

I know when I had my daughters house listed until January, the bank wouldn't work or really even talk to me.  Maybe because they owed 404 and the house was worth 450, at the time, and the first was only owed 360.  THey  kicked them out and still have the house for sale.  They didn't want to work  at all.  I am trying to find out what they are asking for it. 

I will talk to you later. Earl

11:48pm • #21
MAY
10
2007
1 Featured Post

Hi Earl-Bummer about your daughters house - call me or e-mail me with your daughters old address and I can see if I can look it up and see how much they are asking. You can e-mail me at: DonnasDreamHomes@earthlink.net

Michele- I would probably do a major drop on the price of the home. Maybe drop the price so tha you are at least 10% below current market value. You want to get offers ASAP- if you get enough buyers motivated you may be able to drive the price up a bit. But before you go through all that - does your client have a true "hardship" as to why they are behind?  Also - feel free to contact me direct

1:17am • #22
394,159 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Has anyone read a good book on foreclosures that can help us deal with short sales?
5:42am • #23
2 Featured Posts

Donna:

I am a lender, but I have been involved in many short sale deals over the years.  I usually end up leading the charge when my client is buying a home that will need a short sale.

I have found that creating a file to the lender with alot of exhibits really streamlines the process.  The last one I did stated that it would take up to 6 weeks to get an answer.  I had the approval and the property settled in 30 days.

Put as much as you can about the sellers' predicament into the file.  You have to demonstrate beyond all doubt that the sellers are in dire straights and the lender cannot hope to get anymore from them.

6:52am • #24
MAY
12
2007
187,595 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

In California there are so many listed home in short sale status and all say w/lender approval, due to the process of having to submit an a signed purchase agreement BEFORE they will even entertain an approval.  Not sure why the lender need to wait for that to tell you if the property even qualifies for a short sale consideration --- just another way of making the process more complicated is the way I see it.

I like the comment that suggested that you get everything that you can get together prior to getting the offer so that you are ready to go when you do get that offer. 

Other tips:

1. get a signed authorization from your seller when you get the listing agreement signed.

2. investigating who is the contact in loss mitigation, numbers and all that - have it ready to go

3. Request payoff information

4. Request a fax of the process requirements of a short sell and also ask for other assitance programs this lender offer

5. make sure you cover all this with your seller - just in case they come back and say you did not let them know about other assistance the lender offers, because you wanted the sale.

6.  be upfront with other agents, potential buyers and the seller on the expectations of the lender and do not guarantee anything except that you will give this upmost attention in your effort to get it approved.

7.  I have a short sale information sheet that I got from title company that I have my sellers read and initial that they received a copy that I put in my file.

 

After all this, all you can do is be prepared, market the house and keep in touch will parties.  lol

www.motheranddaughterrealty.com

8:01pm • #25
MAY
14
2007
126,793 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
The banks will take time to ralize that it's not worth it for them to let homes foreclose. Also on your side you must qualify the sellers first.
11:39am • #26
I just signed contracts with the seller in a short sale. The house has been listed as a short sale. 
I looked at it back in January. I offered less than the asking price and the sellers accepted. 
I now am beginning the waitting process for bank approval. 
Does anyone have an idea of how long the bank may take to accept my offer? 
I have included in the contract a cut off date for 1 month from the signed contracts. 
What are my chances of getting this home?
I have excellent credit and am putting 20% down at closing.
The home is located in Suffolk County NY.
Adrian
1:03pm • #27
1 Featured Post

If the lender is indeed a "bank" who holds the mortgage... you may have a prompt decision.

More likely the "bank" is really a loan servicer who must construct the short sale application, and submit to all interested parties (actual owner of the mortgage, PMI, etc.) for approval.

Not all lenders and/or loan types are able to consider a short sale as a workout option. Hopefully, the listing agent has done his or her preliminary homework to confirm short sale as a viable option.

Short Sale Primer

2:04pm • #28
2 Featured Posts

Donna,

I think the difference between the servicer and the note holder causes a lot of angst and confusion with agents trying to complete short sales. There may be more than one "investor" in the note, even though all of the payments go to one servicer. The second investor may be an MI company or a subprime division of a conventional lender or even an investment bank that bought 10's of thousands of mortgages because the return was higher than the bond rate when they bought it.

The other confusion often occurs because many "banks" actually service loans for other lenders. I've handled REO properties in the past from Countrywide when the note was held by WAMU and handled properties serviced by WAMU that was only servicing for Wendover Financial. Just because the payment goes to a bank it doesn't mean that bank holds the note.

And the short sale package is just like the underwriting package that was submitted to approve the loan initially, if one document is missing or incomplete, the package goes to the bottom of the pile.

5:53pm • #29
MAY
21
2007
187,595 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I too am hoping that soon the lenders will have to put together a standard that they follow to help resolve this bad situations that the sellers are finding themselves in.  It seem that the procedures should be the first line of buisness since we all know that short sales are here to stay for a long while due to the market up side downness.  But lenders still seem to think that they have the upper hand and is till not taking this serious enough.

If they keep turning down short sales and take the houses that are not going to sell at auctions back, and their inventory get out of hand, they will stop and take a second or third look at the "delay" process that they have going on.  Its just that so many sellers will be long gone and potential buyers will soon get even leary of the option of a short sale purchase.  It is scaring people away from the option.

Banks act like they are losing out doing a short sale but they really are not losing at all.  Its the sellers and their families that are losing out, no matter how you look at it.

Happy Monday! 

 

11:57am • #30
MAY
23
2007
The banks are greed monsters.  If they don't wake up soon, there's going to be a lot more failing banks again.
8:20am • #31
MAY
24
2007
1 Featured Post

Tim & Pam,

I do not think that the banks are greed monsters- face it - they are in the business to make money - as are most of us - but I do believe they need to have some serious restructure in the way that the short sales are being handled.

In the banks defense if they accepted EVERY short sale we would probably have even more defaults so people could just lower their payments.  I know that the seller is SUPPOSED to move out of the house if the short sale is accepted by the bank.  But I recently went to a seminar where  the "GURU" told the investors to short the house - keep the owners in  the house and have them rent it back - and then sell it back to them in a few years.  Do I agree with this Guru - HECK NO - it is not right not to mention, it is illegal - but by the same token, I am sure the banks have thought about this. 

I believe that is why the banks have such stick guidelines as to what is accepted and what is not.  My problem with the banks when you have a 100% LEGITIMATE hardship with a ton of proof and back up and then you get the run around - or worse yet - not response - and then it goes to sale.

I know there are classes out there for people in foreclosure - but most sellers do not even open the notices because they are in denial.  I wish that ALL the banks would automatically send out a letter to ever agent trying to work a short sale with exact DETAIL as to exactly what they need to have.  I know some banks have "packets" but out of the 5 short sales I have worked on in the past 2 months, I only received one "package" from a bank telling me what they would need. I do know that there are "outside" companies that will also sell this information out there to agents  - but let face it most agents are not out there looking to educate themselves in this field.

I have taken MANY classes over the years and know how to put together a good package - but there are more agents out there  trying to do this WITHOUT taking any classes on how to get short sales done- I know that the new agents are probably submitting their stuff little by little rather then all at once.  I always try to overnight my packages rather then fax so that I know EVERYTHING is in order, legible and that they get all the paperwork without pages being stuck together - and still ALMOST every time I still get duplicate requests for papers that I know I sent the bank in my  original package.

I know the agents reading these posts on activerain are here to teach and to learn.  If you are new I would LOVE to recommend a book that I recently purchased and have not had the chance to read from cover to cover - but what I have read has been excellent.  The book is also reasonably priced.  It is from our very own activerain Foreclosure Expert:    David Petrovich      I do not know Dave and other then the posts and exchanges we have had on this website I have no associations with him - but he is a wealth of knowledge and I am thankful I recently received his book.  My only wish is that I bought it when I first saw in on-line a couple of weeks ago.  (I am not sure if I am allowed to plug your book - but I just did - hope you don't mind if you read this David). 

 

1:54am • #32
8 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I would say that its a little bit of a crapshoot.  Some lenders will offer more insight than others.  Some will be more accessible.  This is why, all things being equal (they rarely are), a prospective buyer (guided by a Realtor) will choose the same home NOT up for short sale...
3:28am • #33
1 Featured Post

Thanks for the plug An Ethical Approach (to preforeclosure short sales).  Proceeds from the sale of the book, or any consulting fees derived from my work as a short sale transaction coordinator are pledged to the non profit SPOCH.

6:32am • #34
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This is a great blog, because short sales are up to an all time high as far as I have witnessed.  I am planning on checking out David's book but I wonder if it is the same here in California or if I need to purchase a book written by a California expert inside.

I have encountered a few banks with the process being different with each and the attitudes as well.  There should be some guidelines for these banks that they have to follow because had they not taken on these "outstretched" deals the situation would not be like it is.  At least not as bad.  Remember the banks are ones that offered these bad loans in the first place.  They had opportunity to review and review and deny buyers if it is didn't look like they would be able to handle the payments.

Thanks for all the education on short sales.  I am also going to check out the group - FORECLOSURE FOCUS, I am sure there is more great information there.

 

10:33am • #35
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"I wonder if it is the same here in California" 

Although each state may have its own foreclosure procedures, the essentials of preforeclosure short sale construct are ubiquitous.  Each lender, and loan type may impose its own criteria for short sale, and the process cannot be approached in a cookie-cutter fashion....each case is unique and must be proposed on a case by case basis.

11:05am • #36
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From my experience, the requirements (paperwork wise) is pretty much the same, some want more, some want less. (usually, its hardship request letter and proof), check stubs, bank statements, w2 or tax returns, some have a form of information to be filled out, the rest they have which is the mortgage history.

Once you turn in the paperwork, then the changes start to be very (annoying), some will get back to you, let you know if its a go or not, then the others will play with you saying they didn't get all the paperwork (no matter how you send it to them), then others won't answer the phone calls, then other will just hold on to the request until it is too late for the seller to have any other options (and that is totally wrong), and this is where I have my problems -- they don't play fair.

It look to me like banks do like inventory after all.  Because the odds of properties being sold on the court house steps is taking a chance of having that property on the block for a long time.  REOs are usually priced too high.

We all should know that not every short sale request is going to be granted, but we should be able to know that in plenty of time to give our sellers the news and let them search out other options.

11:30am • #37
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You used to do them years ago.  You stopped.  You are back and wondering why.  Stop doing them if it is a time consumer and causes you to fume! There are tons of ways to make money in real estate...pick the ones that are fun, you are designed to do and consider it all joy!
5:58pm • #38
MAY
25
2007
1 Featured Post

Hi Andrew - I am not sure exactly who your comment was directed to, but I will answer it. The reason I stopped doing short sales is that for the past few years my market had huge appreciation and you could purchase a house and flip it in a matter of months and still make money.

As for short sales being time consuming - every deal I work is time consuming. I am a hands on agent who puts all of my energy into making sure my clients get a great deal and that all the paperwork is complete and accurate.

As to deals causing me to fume - I think in almost every deal I get a little fumed about one thing or another - especially when things are out of my control.  I am not a control freak - but I like people to do what they say they are going to do, and to put the time, energy and dedication into their job that I do. Not some half A** job that my 3 year old could do.   I am paid well for the work that I do - and I like my clients to get their moneys worth.

I only work foreclosures that I believe are true hardships - I will not take the deal where a client has money in the bank and just decided after pulling $150,000 out of the home that since the market has declined wants to walk away.

I wish that I could say that every single day of my life had nothing but joy when it comes to real estate - but if I said that it would make me a big fat liar.  I have no joy telling a client that another person dropped the ball and did not do the job they were supposed to do - or when the lending industry has huge changes - again out of my control shutting down many of the buyers in my market place.

I may be a bit more sensitive about putting extra time, energy  and compassion into my clients because my husband is a deputy sheriff.  I know what he and many other civil servants do every day on the street and the risks that they take to help people that they do not even know. I also know very well what they are paid - and to be honest - I can easily make double or triple his salary with far less time and risk.  Maybe this is what makes me take the extra time and effort for my clients.

You are right - there are  a ton of ways to make money in real estate - and I work more then one avenue of the business.  I could choose to walk away from every short sale and foreclosure deal that I currently have and not put the extra time and energy into a deal and financially it would not kill my business- but I got into this business for two reasons.  1) to provide a financial income that allows me to spend as much time as I want to with my family and  2) And this one is ALMOST as important to #1 for me- to help people improve and sometimes get a new start in life. 

A new start means many things to many people.  It may be a seller with a true hardship just wanting to be relieved from the burdens or stress of his home facing foreclosure, or it could be a first time buyer or new investor buying a property in hopes to one day be financially free.

Being an agent representing foreclosures in NOT necessaily the fastest way to make money in this business - nor is it the most profitable as most banks will not pay the full 6% commission.  But it is one of the ways that I choose to make a living - and although there are times during the day that I may question my choice to work with clients in destress - it is all worth it when a seller THANKS YOU for relieving them of a financial and emotional burden. 

I know that Short Sales will not be the biggest commission check that I receive in my career. When my husband graduated from the Sheriffs academy, he took an oath to Protect and Serve the Community- and when I married him I guess I must have done the same thing.

My hope is that when the day comes for me to leave this planet - the big guy up stairs will remember my work and the rest of my rewards will be received then. 

 

1:12am • #39

Its about relationships with anyone involved in the transaction and the quality of your short sale package.

1)make sure you send everything at once. A few posts prior Rosemary Brooks spoke about the required elements to be included.

2)dramatize all the negatives in your letter. emphasize illness (document serious illness), emphasize unemployment (document reasons for unemployment), if someone past away document this and explain who this person was and what impact this person had on paying the mortgage in the past.

3)document why the home is NOT worth what it the appraisal stated when it was purchased. Dont just use standard comps from the mls. Use tax sales from all types of transactions. Act as an appraiser and make adjustments for differencese between comps. If the property your short selling does not have a kitchen and/or bathrooms and comps A & B do then you must make huge adjustments.

4)persistance! call every the mitigator every day to make sure he/she has received your complete package and do find out if they are going to play ball. When you get the mitigator on the phone realize that this person is a 9-5 hourly/salary person who has hundreds of files like yours to sort through...and remember the mitigator DOES NOT make the decisions...he/she only gathers the paperwork, checks for red flags and passes it on to the higher up. Maybe a VP or upper level exec. 

8:33am • #40
JUN
01
2007

Donna:
Wow, I don't know about you... .but I feel better after reading that.....(lol).  I agree completely.  It is the same everywhere.  I am closing next week with a buyer who waited over 6 weeks to get a response from the bank after they initially verbally accepted, the seller was happy but the bank never executed the contract, so the buyer bought elsewhere.  6 weeks to go nowhere!  I haven't figure out how they expect to get more $$ by waiting either.  Great post.

Fort Lauderdale Realtor

7:14pm • #41
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Hey this is some good reading, I am going to bookmark and read later.  Short sales can make you pull your hair out.  The clock ticks so loud and time flyes with short sales and if you do not hurry and sell you will and seller will lose out.
8:48pm • #42
JUN
05
2007

Hi Donna,

Great post and many comments...I think I read most of them, I know I skipped a few.

I feel your pain and frustration on short sales. years ago I worked for a 3rd party foreclosure company. Loss mitigation departments are very frustrating! 

2:49pm • #43
JUN
15
2007
Localism Sponsor
Didn't read throught the comments, but I just took a class on this through my title company.
Does anybody really have a good system for short-sales.  It just seemed like way to much work for the risk and money.
Am I not seeing something?
10:16pm • #44
JUN
16
2007
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My take: Short sales are here to stay for a while until we get out of the situation we are in.  I can either look over any listings that might be or become a short sale and just try for the regular listings -- or I can join in.

There is a little bit more work but once you get a system going, its not that much.  The risk is not too much more than someone making an offer and not following through with the sale.  But to be honest it makes you frustrated when the lender won't get back to you, won't answer your calls or just plain refuse to deal.  When they know they don't want to add to their inventory.

If we as agents get our process together, with a clear understanding that short sales are here for a while and we stick together on hopefully working with the banks to get their stuff together, come up with a process that will work for all and stop trying to act like they got it like that=== because we all know having all that inventory is not good for business.

Don't give up.

2:06am • #45
JUN
17
2007
Every lender, servicer or mortgage insurance company has it's own criteria and procedure for short sales.  They are trying to minimize losses and often not near enough the property to inspect it.  It is a difficult situation for everyone concerned.  In these situations someone is going to lose money and everyone involved wants it to be the other party. 
8:53pm • #46
JUN
18
2007
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Laura you are right, all different in some way.  But there should be a way for them to be accountible for either a speedy decision or something to help the seller not be stuck in limbo and run the chance of the house being sold at a trustee sale if they have someone that wants to purchase it, but the lender is delaying by not responding.
12:24am • #47
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Oh speaking of procedures:

If you have a short sale listing or one that could turn into short sale, make sure ou fill out the following:

Purchase Agreement Addendum (PAA) that address short sale.  Its an addendum to the purchase agreement. 

Authorization to receive and convey information: this gives you right to print your seller's property is short sale and other information.

see my posts:Short Sale - Important Information for a successful sale and my post: Short Sale - Sample hardship letter

Not a plug for me, but this is some valuable information.

 

12:30am • #48
JUN
26
2007
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Nice post. 

I hear that in the near future, there will be a change in the way banks handle foreclosures. I am not sure what the proposed plans are but I am keeping a ear to the ground for I am about to handle short sales as well.

 

7:50pm • #50
JUN
27
2007
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Had to come back to this post.  Please forgive me for plugging my posts but I want to share any Short Sale information that I find and this is a good way to do it.  You can do the same on my posts, but please go check them out:

Tax Relief from Short Sale - Will it pass? HR 1876

Invest without agent - its the California Law

Also, I wanted to share. One of my submits to the lender for SS approval, just finally got back to me and ask that I get my seller to fill out a 2 sheet financial report!  Claimed they did not get 1/2 the papers I sent to the them.  Next time I fax it to them I will fax it twice, so this will not happen again.  They did get "some" of the paper but not all of it. 

So this may be a part of the new process, get a financial report in details instead of just the copies of the bank statements and pay stubs with the hardship letter.

 

1:31pm • #51
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I do not fax my paperwork to the lenders.  I get my package ready and put it in a nice binded folder, organized with tabs and overnight it to them.  This way they can not claim they did not get everything.  It is all in one spot and organized.  It costs a little more but saves you time.  Oh - dont forget to keep an extra copy of two in case they loose the folder!  :-)

1:37pm • #52
Awesome post Donna.  I've been looking into short sales lately and this is definitely something I'll keep in mind.  Looks like you're a pro and did your part.  Something needs to change for this to be less of an inconvenience for us investors that are trying to help.
6:22pm • #53
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Donna, thanks for that suggestion.

What tabs do you use?

I will do that with this one I have here to send out.  When I called them and asked what to do they sent me a package (via fax) and the instructions were to fax it to them.  They did not provide an address to send short sale request, you know sometimes they are not in the same place as the addresses they provide and they have a po box.  How do you get around all those obstacles?

6:29pm • #54
1 Featured Post

I usually use what ever tabs I can find on sale or already have.  Usually they are the Index Tabs with printable inserts or the ones that you can write on.  Once I used the ones that were numbered because that was all I had and did not feel like running to Staples before getting it in the mail and I just made and index for the front.  I did not like that as well because I want to make everything as easy as possible so they do not have to flip to figure out what is in each section.

I usually have a separate tabs for: Offer, Listing Agreements,Comps, Hardship Letter etc.

I try to get the physical address at the same time as I get the name of the person in charge.  If they will not give it to me, I will usually call back and try to talk to someone else. I have used several methods - Once I pushed extensions until I got a live person and asked them  if they would give me the physical address of "Jane Doe" because she had done a great job and I wanted to send her some flowers. Another time I said that "Jane Doe" gave me the address and I lost it and they asked me to overnight a package. Usually if you press "0" you can get a live person (although not always - I think I get India when I call Option One).

I have also used the press "O" method to get the name and address & phone number of the manager of loss mitigation.Most of the time they are reluctant to give you to the  information. I will usually give some BS Story like "Jane Doe" did a great job and I wanted to send a letter of appreciation.  Usually if you are nice and sometimes act a little stupid you can BS way into the information. 

There have been a couple of times that I have called and hung up 4 o5 times until I got a different person on the phone who would give me the information.  You may even have to try the next day.

 

7:04pm • #55
JUL
05
2007

Donna, I probably don't know any more than you do on the topic.  However I have been writing a series of educational how to articles on short sales that are all published here for free on active rain.  The series is not complete, so if you like what you see, then please bookmark it and come back for more.

John Occhi, Hemet CA REALTOR
Mission Grove Realty


http://activerain.com/blogs/mrhemet/tags/short%20sale

10:11pm • #56

Reading all these posts, it is obvious that we are in the same boat all over the country. We are finding in Florida that lenders seemed to have been unprepared for the influx of short sales when they starting to appear some months ago.  They didn't seem to have trained staff in place & we are still experiencing difficulty in getting answers or even reaching the person who has authority to give an answer.

We also ran into a problem with a seller who told us up front that there was no money to pay us and a lender who wouldn't promise any commission comittment until we had a buyer.  Try putting that one into the MLS.  Bring us a buyer & maybe you'll get paid.  Talk about a Catch 22. 

We think we have it ready to market.  It took tenacity & patience. 

 

 

11:38pm • #57
JUL
06
2007
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It is so hot here in Central Valley.  Somebody pour water on me.....

I forgot to invite you to my celebration this weekend.  I will be celebrating my 100th post and I don't want to do it alone.  What I need is lots of readers with comments.  Can you help me out???? I can't say which day it will be right now because I am stuck between waiting for Sunday so that I can get the whole 200 points for the post or doing it on Saturday 7-7-07 for the luck thing.  But either day, it will be a time of celebrating for me.  I have been a member since April 2007 and it has been a hard climb for me to get used to posting and bloging and all that.  I love the AR network and have invited others (none joined yet) but oh well.

I think it might be a swim party because of this extreme heat.  I don't want anyone to be hot and bothered. Hope to see you there!  Entry is FREE!

Rosemary Brooks - Mother and Daughter Realty Team - Evolve Realty Group

12:02am • #58
AUG
11
2007

My husband and I live in VA and had been looking for a home for a year and a half.  We finally found a home we fell in love with and made an offer on June 28th.  The listing for the home said absolutely nothing about it being a foreclosure or short sale.  After we made the offer we were then advised by the listing agent that this would be a short sale subject to third party approval.  We spoke with our agent to try to find out what that meant, and were assured on more then one occasion that everything would be fine, that the sellers bank just had to approve of the contract and that should be done in about a week.  I would like to point out here that we offered full price for the home with closing cost assistance.

Fast forward a week and half and we get a phone call from our realtor saying that their bank is moving forward with the 3rd party approval and everything is fine, so our mortgage lender does everything they need to do and we do what we have to do to ensure that everything will happen for us to close, including renting out our current home.

We are now 4 days away from closing, as we are scheduled to close on 8/16 and we get a frantic phone call and e-mail from our realtor saying that thier bank has now decided to counter offer with an asking price of $25k higher then the contract price.  To say that I am infuriated is an understatement. 

First the house wasn't even listed for as much as they are countering with.  Why the heck, in this market would we pay more then a house is actually listed for?  And don't think this house was underlisted, because it wasn't.  There are houses currently listed in the same subdivision that are similar in square footage, etc that are currently listed for less than our contracted price. 

Second, our mortgae company already appraised the home and the appraisal came out at the contracted price.  Now I do know that my bank is not going to give me a mortgage for more then the appraised value of the house and furthermore I do not think I could go back to my bank and expect them to reevaluate everything in four days.

So we are four days away from closing, have our home rented, movers and everything else in place and know don't know if we are going to go to closing because someone in a bank somewhere decided out of the clear blue to ask for more then the house was even listed for screwing both us and the sellers at this point. 

I have been digging around on the Internet trying to find information on this, because I have to wonder how legal or ethical this is and all I have been able to find are articles for sellers on short salea, Well what about the buyers who aren't investors, who don't deal with this sort of thing who are getting screwed?  Now we are in the predicament of having to decide if we go through with a rental agreement and have basically no place to live, when we had a nice, happy, stable home or backing out on a rental agreement and in turn screwing our renters who were planning on moving in and will have to in turn find a place to live quickly.

Any advice or feedback on this mess would be appreciated.

Very Distressed
7:02am • #59
AUG
13
2007
376,296 Points 28 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Unfortunately, agents can put a home on the market listed at any price the seller chooses. It doesn't mean the bank will accept that price. It would be nice if there were a procedure whereby the listing agent could contract with the bank and the seller, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I've dealt with several banks recently that were really tough, and I had to be firm and aggressive right back at them. The problem I've seen is banks will run automated software to come up with a value that has little bearing on the neighborhood where the property is located. Where I sell in Sacramento, homes right next door to each other can be dramatically different in terms of value and condition, not to mention, values can drop across boundary lines that are not readily ascertainable to an out-of-area bank and result in a $100,000 price difference.

One more thing, in California, WinForms offers a new listing tool for short sales. It's called a Short Pay Listing Addendum. Watch for it and use it.
2:12pm • #60
AUG
15
2007
1 Featured Post

Hi Donna,

Not sure what the other lenders are doing regarding their Short-Sales and REOs but my company and specifically my office is sprearheading the process.  We had a great Short-Sale Seminar in Tustin,CA. 600+ Realtors were invited.  Now it was not a "How to..." seminar.  It was an educational process to deal with our company and procedures to simplify the process.  In addition we are being permitted to find qualified realtors to become approved to sell our REO Listings.  It's not an easy process to get on the list but some agents are getting 8-10 listings in a matter of days.  Our Real Estate Midigation ("REM") team is working with Retail CHL branches to assist realtors with the process in order to make it easier.  Even if you don't become approved to do REOs I would more than happy to point you in the right direction or help if I can.  We are also finding other lenders are making it so difficult Short-Sale / REO agents are using CHL instead to close our competition's transactions.  

2:35pm • #61
AUG
16
2007

Hi Andrew,

What is the process for becoming one of your "qualified realtors?"   If someone has a CHL short sale, should they be going to a Retail CHL branch rather than to the Loss Mitigation Department?   

 

7:39am • #62
AUG
22
2007
563,030 Points 34 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

I just spent the morning reading this.  It is GREAT information.  And I agree that it seems like some of the banks are collectively smoking crack with their practices.  I expect that we are going to have to see some mortgage holders go into a serious meltdown and be left with properties that could have been sold had they let a little reality creep into the picture. 

I see properties here that are listed short, pre-foreclosure and foreclosed and are priced above market... and in WELL below market condition.  In some cases the listing agents seemed blind to the matter, in others they were just "doing as they were told" by their bank/client.  

In looking at the foreclosure wave I see coming, I think that the banks will have to get realistic about pricing and get investors excited about the market before the market can strengthen. 

Donna... thanks for getting this discussion rolling. 

9:27am • #63
I have a buyer that is at the low end of the market so she has two choices for single family homes...1) REOs that are over priced fixers and 2) short sale listings that are listed pretty close to the right sales price. The problem is that we put in offers for the REOs but they are rejected; and the short sale listings already have offers that still aren't accepted by the banks months later so those buyers have walked and the listing agent would love my buyer to enter the waiting game. I have heard that in Orange County lenders are beginning to approve quite a number of short sales, but I guess not up in LA County yet.
Shari Posey
11:08pm • #64
Or your buyer could be counseled to look in a different neighborhood.
Elizabeth Weintraub, Lyon Real Estate, Sacramento
11:11pm • #65
AUG
23
2007
We are looking in the worst areas of the city--gang-bang areas. I'm sure you can imagine the condition of some of these REOs yet they are priced at the same price as homes in livable condition. It makes me wonder who did the BPOs and if they even drove by the property.
Shari Posey
10:32am • #66
102,128 Points Outside Blog
Donna, I am sorry.  I just realized that this blog is a featured one.  i am so excited.  That is very cool.  How do you get to be a featured blog, besides having something really inmportant or special to say.  You are tops.  I am so happy to be able to say I knew you when you were just one of us.  lol  Look at all the people you touched with this post.  I bet you even helped make some deals happen that you will never know about.  You are the bomb!. 
6:20pm • #67
1 Featured Post

Shari- I have a few GREAT deals on homes - have your client move to Palmdale!  :-)

 

Earl - Thank you. To be honest I am not sure how it became a featured post as I was just in a bad mood and needed to vent the day I wrote it!  I am still having problems with the lenders on my short sales - and although I know how to get a good package together and what to look for to see if a home will even qualify for a short sale I am getting very frustrated with the whole process!

7:46pm • #68
102,128 Points Outside Blog
Donna, that is cool anyways.  I will talk to you later.  Earl
11:55pm • #69
SEP
09
2007

Donna,

This process is hard and at this point all we can do is make better per-quals before you start.  I see people taking any listing and that's fine.  The shot gun approach is one method of sales. 

It's horrible when you do all of this work and it does not go thru but know the banks will change.  If not then bk path they go...  I've been telling my local agents that if you just originate then your chances of having one go thru is better if the shotgun approach is they way they are getting their listings.  But even if one is a good candidate there will always be a chance that it will not go thru more than a conventional listing.  So like the State of Main guy said find a different way.  I'm thinking more of multi-tasking in marketing and origination rather than spending time processing and calling the banks.

But if you only have a few in the pipe line that are very strong then I would process them myself too.

But again take this opinion as a grain of salt...

8:55pm • #70
SEP
18
2007
Maybe we need to compile a CONTACT list for all these banks and lenders emails phone numbers in our powerful NETWORK here!
1:30am • #71
Barbara, that is a great idea.  Peace
Earl Sorrells
2:20am • #72
187,595 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Barbara, check out Mike Mueller's site on foreclosures -- he has a list started.  I wanted to add EMC - they started off a little shaky for me, but I decided I was not going to give up on helping my customer and I hung in there with them.

What I have found is if you send in more than 1 offer and let them chose which one to accept, they like that better.  It worked for at least, that and a lot of patience, negotiating skills and just plain old hanging in there!

4:52am • #73
Outside Blog
I have had problems with my short sales also.  Some are successful and some are not.  One of my deals that I am working on and since June, the Lender has now lost the file (3 months worth of work) because they closed down one of their offices and the file did not turn up at the other office accross the country.  So I am back to the beginning with this one.  My contact person - no longer there, office closed down, she lost her job.  No one at the mortgage company knew anything because the file was missing.  So all that work for nothing so far.  I think there are a lot of agents frustrated with the lenders.  The lender I was working with on this case had 250 files on her desk - Makes you wonder if my file is lost if the other 249 are lost too.
8:43am • #74
1 Featured Post

Donna,

This post should have been featured from the onset, please accept my apologies.  Since Short Sales are here to stay for quite a while...this post needs to be right up top for all of our group members' reference and to continue to post to.

Tomorrow I will complete the final day for my CSSS (Certified Short Sale Specialist) and CPFS (Certified Pre-Foreclosure Specialist) training.  I thank GOD that I finally found a training that was comprehensive and unique at the same time.  I have short sale "experience", but of course the trial and error kind.  After going through this intense training, I feel more confident than ever about being able to successfully close my short sale listings.  A lot of what I learned goes into the "pre-qualifying" if you will.  Although we are told time after time by the lenders that they will do nothing until you receive an offer, there are still a HOST of questions they must answer. 

We as agents, have to learn that all short sales aren't "doable" and will have to decline the listing.  Finding out something as simple as who truly owns the loan and/or who are the decision makers (i.e, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, FHA, VA, USDA, a PMI Company)?  Each of these entities have their own set of guidelines.  Just because Wells Fargo or Countrywide may service the loan, we need to know up front with whom we are really dealing. 

I will post more really soon as I have learned so much over the past two weeks that I CAN'T WAIT to share it with you all!

11:39pm • #75
SEP
19
2007
1 Featured Post

Congrats on taking the CSS class. Is Lance Churchill teaching it?  I took the two day class months ago and it was one of the best classes I have ever taken! CLICK HERE   I do not even want to admit how much money I have spent over the years on short sale classes but the $297 I spent on the two day class was worth every penny!

The last time they had this 3 day certification class in Los Angeles my step daughter was graduating HS in New York and this weekend I was a team captain for the Cancer Relay for Life and was not able to go.  I cant wait until they announce the next dates in Los Angeles.

I agree that agents must know what short sales to accept and which ones to pass on. I also get very frustrated with agents that say "short sales are easy" or an agent I spoke to the other day said "banks will take just about any offer these days".  I am not sure where that agent has been - but has definitely not been trying to get short sales accepted.

Thanks for the post - I would love it if you gave me a call so we could discuss the class - I was so disappointed I could not make it this week (661) 618-9444

12:13am • #76
1 Featured Post

Donna,

I will give you a call!  It will have to be Thursday since my last day of class is tomorrow.  I totally agree... the $$$ was well spent.  If you thought the two day was good, I can't wait for you to get the even MORE in depth 3 day certification.  We were told that a waiting list is already forming for L.A. so email them right away and get your name on that list!

I'm adding you as an associate!

1:59am • #77
SEP
27
2007
Donna, you hit the nail with this one!  I myself have been working with a short sale in representing the buyer.  We started way back in April when my buyers agreed on their terms and conditions..then the appraisal went fine, then my clients got qualified and have their loan all ready to go, now we have just been waiting for them to return all the signed docs and contract back so that we can hand them over to our lender and move on witht the escrow process.  But they keep coming up with excuses and they keep re-assigning the person at the bank who is in charge of our files..and now, when they finally have a person to handle our transaction, they are claiming to have a hard time contacting the seller to varify some documents... and the list goes on!!!  I do hope that my transaction closes because I have spent so much time on it and my buyers keep wanting to know what is going on.  I wish you the best of luck too!!
3:56am • #78
SEP
30
2007
Localism Sponsor

Donna,

I really do appreciate the post and the honesty in your words. It is really frustrating to put in the time like you have and feel like your time and hardwork have not been respected by the lender. Short Sales are like rollercoasters! One day, you're feeling good because you have an offer, the next day, you are not feeling so good because you can not get in touch with the lender or they have rejected the MORE than fair offer. I, too, believe that they're in a state of denial! Surely, they can not afford to keep these properties on their books and take the risk of losing money on a daily basis! You just have to remind them of that!

Thanks for the post and good luck!

10:45pm • #79
OCT
02
2007
212,551 Points Outside Blog
Well it's been five months since you posted this blog. I think the banks came across this one because it seems like their getting with the program now. I always enjoy your posts... keep doing what you do.
12:02pm • #80
OCT
05
2007
WoW! What a lot of attention this post has gotten. i have done short sales and have had a similar experience. It hurts when you put in all that work not only to advocate for your client but to earn a payday. What's disheartening about this subject is a post I read on another forum referring to an email from a high level bank executive regarding their willingness to mitigate. In a nutshell he said that it may be cheaper in the long run for the banks to foreclose now and hold on to the properties for a while and let the market correct and sell for a profit in a year or so than to eat the loss now doing a short sale. I thought this was an interesting perspective and may part of the reasoning, in addition to case overload, for the seemingly irrational behavior coming from banks lately regarding their willingness to sale short.
8:03pm • #81
OCT
07
2007

YOu are so correct...

In fact, I'm about ready to stop trying to help out in these short sales... We're noticing significant drops in showings whereby the agent comments identify that all offers are subject to short sale.

 To me as a buyer agent, I would prefer showing owner occupied properties vs... short sale opportunities...

As much as buyers seem to think, they are patient enought to wait for the banks to respond to their offers...

Most are not.

9:53pm • #82
OCT
19
2007
1 Featured Post

Donna:

I wrote an interesting post about the problem:

http://../242184/ARE-THE-CEOS-GOING

http://activerain.com/blogsview/242184/ARE-THE-CEOS-GOING

Millions of people are going to lose their homes because of people afraid to make a decision.

2:07pm • #83
OCT
23
2007
267,407 Points Outside Blog
Donna, today will make two months since I started on a short sale. I do agree bank take so long to figure it out.
5:38am • #84
NOV
01
2007
240,739 Points 16 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router
Donna, I have been taking some coaching on Short Sales and I certainly don't have the experience to answer your questions. I know it does not make sense. What we are beinging told, is that if you get everything right there are still going to be 20% of the banks that JUST WON"T ACCEPT THE OFFER. I can't say for sure, but perhaps yours was in the 20%. Great Post and something we will all be discussing! Thanks for the time you put into the post. I also agree with an earlier comment that if you break it up some with graphics or photos it will help us all be able to read it better. I had to squint to keep reading. Good content!
9:21am • #85
NOV
05
2007
Outside Blog Hit Router

Donna

The bank have everything backwards here. I an having trouble with short sales also. It appears banks figure it out way to slow. Great pos. thank you for the resources.

6:32pm • #86
NOV
15
2007

Donna I can definitely relate to your frustration as I am sure every agent can that deals with foreclosures.  As for the Banks coming up with a logical and helpful process - I highly doubt it. 

Some things I have learned from my experience with short sales:

- Tell the bank what they are taking and why.  Provide pictures, CMAs, and any problems with the house that they need to be aware of.  In reality we are helping the bank and it needs to be evident with your approach.

- Whenever you fax something to the lender send it TWICE.  Also make sure on EVERY page has the date, loan number, and page number (write this out).

- Make sure you send everything to them at once.  If you send it piece by piece your file goes in the incomplete section which will become the lost file.  If you send everything at once you have a better chance of it getting reviewed.

I am sure I could come up with more hints but those are some helpful ones that not all agents realize. 

11:18am • #87
DEC
21
2007
1 Featured Post

We had a large auction this fall where over 300 homes were auctioned, mostly by the same large servicer.  I will keep their confidentiality.  But the two properties were in the auction that a client of mine made short sale offers on.  I know that his offers were higher than what the property was auctioned off for.  My only conclusion is that the banks have agendas that make no sense to us, that they are benefiting more from holding them and dumping them at auction.  The one technique that I have used that has gotten some traction, is I call my AE with the lender that is servicing the mortgage.  I have on two occassions gotten some help and facilitated the short sale.  Sometimes mortgage consultants can backdoor into these big sevicers and get somethings accomplished. 

 My Best,

11:50am • #88
DEC
31
2007

Hi Donna,

I too have felt your frustration, several times.  On both the listing and buyer side.  The only advice I can give when you are on the listing side is to hire a third party mitigator.  Our company, Windermere Real Estate, has procured the exlusive services of a company, Funder's Choice, to help us handle short sales.  Sure, they charge a rate of 30% of your commission, however, it is worth it in the headaches and time saved dealing with the lenders.  And they get results.  There are other companies out there that do the same thing.  If you're on the buyer's side, well, just tell your clients that it could be a long haul, and have other properties lined up as back ups.

Best of luck,

Jerry Murphy

Windermere Real Estate

Phoenix, AZ

10:23am • #89
JAN
06
2008

I am an investor in Los Angeles who has had pretty good success negotiating my own short sales directly with the lenders.  If you have a property listed that you know is a short sale in the South Bay area, get in touch with me and I will put an offer in and negotiate the whole deal for you and still pay you a commission.  310-536-9556.

I am typically able to get a BPO sent out within a week or two of submitting my first offer and from there the process  is well underway.  Not all get approved, but a fair number do.

1:42am • #90
JAN
10
2008

Hello Donna,

Where can I find short listings?

I've been using  www.wiseforeclosures.com for foreclosure listings and RealtyTrac.

Thanks!

Peter Cheng
9:59am • #91
JAN
12
2008
336,975 Points Outside Blog
The whole short sale process is extremely time consuming. It takes hours and hours to wait on hold to try and get someone at the lender, only to get a voice mail at times after the long wait. Very time consuming.
11:45pm • #92
JAN
14
2008
347,714 Points 30 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Donna, thank you for writing this blog and eliciting such great responses.  This will help a lot of people who are hurting right now.  Thank you so much for a great job and for your concern and dedication!
5:34pm • #93

I think the key word in the listings is "possible" short sale. I make sure that my buyers know that it will take a month or more to get a response and then there is the possibility that the answer will be a rejection.

In our market we have plenty of homes to show buyers that have already been foreclosed on and the response on those are usually "only" 3 to 10 days. It's unfortunate for the distressed owners that the banks don't have a system in place to process these short sales in a timely fashion.

6:32pm • #94
JAN
15
2008
Short sales are very difficult and I was able to pull off two of them when I sold real estate. THanks.
9:28pm • #95
JAN
18
2008
347,714 Points 30 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Donna, this was a fantastic blog!  Thank you!

How were you able to post to all those groups?  They usually only allow posting to five groups.  I would love to find out how you did it.  I'm glad you did, because your blog gave me some great information.  Thank you!

11:03am • #96
JAN
25
2008
Ditto that!  And then you have to keep on explaining to the buyers agents why it is taking so long.. meanwhile their client is getting restless and wanting to look elsewhere.  Those deals are back breaking to hold together but are well worth it to lighten the burden of the seller who might otherwise be faced with inevitable foreclosure.
2:48pm • #97
FEB
08
2008
Donna:  Its important to work short sales as a team effort in your office.  Make sure you let everyone in your office and area know that such and such bank is not great to work with.  Then find out which banks in your area are SUPER to work with.  Short sales can be a legitimate source of business for us in this market.  Not only are we earning our living, but we are also helping our clients avoid foreclosure.  I'm sorry to hear you had to learn the hard way on this one, but I'm sure you won't go there again with this guy huh?  Its tough when we as agents try to do the best job we can and then get smacked down like this.  I feel for you!  Maybe karma will smile down on you and get you through with ease and grace on the next one!  I'm rooting for you!  Don't give up!! 
2:46pm • #98
FEB
09
2008
120,561 Points 1 Featured Post
Donna- I use the rapid call back if no answer is happening. I have had a loss mitigator say he only picked up the call because he saw my number 5 times in a row. Be persistant.
12:49am • #99
FEB
10
2008

One of the things I do before listing a short sale/pre-foreclosure is to try and get the listing price negotiated before listing, ask them to have an interior inspection done on the property and make sure you get release forms from the seller to give you permission to talk to the bank.

Mike Nehmzow

Mike Nehmzow
10:37pm • #100
FEB
20
2008

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.  The best thing you can do is first educate yourself on how to escalate within a bank and recognize when you are talking to a 'file set up' person who calls themselves a 'negotiator'.  Several times have I saved deals by talking to someone with authority or someone who is paid on results and not by the hour or salary (those kind of employees really don't care).

Second, you need to get a better Attorney.  I have negotiated deals where the bank has lost $320K which was a 31% loss severity and I have negotiated deals with loss severities of over 40%.  Your attorney may have been referring to current market value and not loss severity.  It is true that most banks will not take less than 15% off of CURRENT market value, but then again, some will.  The key is knowing how to talk to the 'right person' at the bank when you get stuck with a paper pusher.

When trying to get approval on a loss severity of over 20% on a first position lien when dealing with an hourly employee, you will not get far and it will take way too long.  In second position, you will notice closed end seconds accepting up to 99% off and second position HELOCs will usually demand more, since they have revolving credit characteristics and in most states, can seek other collection methods even after the foreclosure sale.

Trent Chapman, Short Sale Genius

http://BecomeA.ShortSaleGeni.us

10:08am • #101
I was wondering what the lenders in second position can or will do in a short sale and in a foreclosure action? The first position lender can foreclose, the second position lender, can they get a portion of the buyer's offer money AND if they didn't get anything, COULD they then go after the new owner OR the previous owner (their customer)? I am really curious about this because on the active listings in our area labeled as "short sale" the asking price usually looks like something less even than the first mortgage amount owed, they sit on the market forever and I figure it's because nobody is taking that amount as full payment. It confuses buyers that those houses are listed "so cheap" why would they buy any of the other houses on the market at a thousand dollars more asking price? I tell them it is because those are not actual prices that ANYONE would accept, which is not traditional to think of asking prices that are not acceptable to ANYONE.
Barb Adams
10:16am • #102

Barb,

No, they can't seek more money if they accept the short sale, unless they say so in their approval letter and your seller signs and accepts it.  i.e. - "borrower agrees to pay 'lender' $20,000 in monthly payments of $100 at 6% interest only with a balloon payment in 5 years of $20,000".  If you allow that in the approval, then they can collect it.  In some cases, it may be what is needed to make a deal work, but always try and get around accepting the unsecured note if you can.

In a foreclosure, in most cases, a second position lien will not seek a deficiency judgment, even if they can by law (this depends on your state and occupancy rules), due to the time and money they would have to invest in order to chase 'bad money' from soemone who is probably destitute (exactly why trial lawyers don't take cases to sue poor people... they can't pay).  However, in the case of a HELOC, they can collect even after the sale as if they were a credit card company, due to their revolving credit characteristics.  This makes it easier for them to sell the loan to a collection company without having to go through the more expensive and lengthy proceedings to get a deficiency judgment.

You are correct that most listing agents are ignorant and list houses too low and get unrealistic offers that have no chance of getting approved.  The key is to list at FMV and lower by the price 5% every few weeks until you get action on the property and an offer.  Ignorant listing agents that try and do short sales are causing this market undue damage and give short sales a bad name.

Remember, the amount owed is irrelevant.  The reality is the bank has to look at two things.  Option one - the net amount returned to the bank with a short sale and Option two - the net amount returned to the bank with a foreclosure or REO sale.  The listing price in many areas of the country is less than the amount owed on the seocnd and the first liens, because that is the TRUE market value and the reality you must make the bank face when negotiating an approval.

If listing agents would educate themselves on how to do a short sale and take it seriously as if they were a doctor testing a new surgery, they would have much higher close ratios than the national average of 10%-20%.  What doctor would open a brain and decide to learn what to do once he got inside?  Why take a listing when you have not studied how to actually negotiate the approval and close the deal?  You are screwing with people's dreams and lives and making false promises just to 'get a listing'.

Trent Chapman, Short Sale Genius

http://BecomeA.ShortSaleGeni.us/

10:50am • #103
great comment Trent!  There are a ton of short sales in my market and hardly any are getting approved....oh but mine are! 
J G
3:12pm • #104
Localism Sponsor
Donna - Good luck on the file.  This is a very helpful post and the discussion.  Thank you!
10:11pm • #105
MAR
02
2008
Wow!  So many comments!  Iwould prefer not to show short sales, as when I make an offer for a client, I would like to know that if the purachase price is accepted, they will get it.  These days, it seems just about every property I am showing is a short sale!  Up to $800K, (and higher!)  I let my buyers know what w may be up against, and take it from there.  Unfortunately, I have severla first time buyers int the $400K range, and those are almost all short sales.  Sigh.  Hey, if we are going to make the big bucks, we may as well work for it!
1:22pm • #106

We've been in this tidal wave of foreclosures for well over a year now.  A reasonable person would think that lenders would staff up the loss mit departments to better handle the load - instead the incoming calls are out sourced to New delhi or the Philipines. 

My services also include negotiating loan modification and other repayment plans with the lenders - you would think that they would be happy to have homeowners that are willing to get back on track and pay their upside-down mortgage but no, it's the same crap. 

I have one loan mod I'm trying to work with Chase Home Loans that has been "in review" for 4 months - FOUR FLIPPING MONTHS!  The AVP of Loss Mitigation doesn't even return calls.

Maybe I'll try calling some upper management at JP Morgan -- the truth is this borrower IS upside down but is emotionally attached to the house.  If it weren't for the emotional attachment, this would be another short sale or REO which woud result in a loss for the lender.

What's wrong with these lenders???   

 

 

4:27pm • #107
MAR
11
2008

 

    The talk around our water cooler is that some agents(not at our office) are giving gifts (bribes) to their contact person at the L/M dept to add their own file at the top of the heap. Any one else hear of that rumor?

1:53am • #108
MAR
13
2008

this is tough.  I hear a lot of different things about short sales

1:02pm • #109
MAR
14
2008
Good post!  I wish we had more answers, but I think it's a day-to-day deal with the individuals who work in these departments.  i also wonder where the mortgage insurance kicks in & if they are interested in taking a loss if they can collect from the insurance...?
1:27pm • #110
APR
07
2008

I've been selling real estate for 22 years, but this is all new to me.  Just never had to deal with foreclosures before.  It's a difficult time we all have to walk through together.  I just hope we get past this mess soon!

8:53pm • #111

Banks seem to be lost in the Land of the Last to Know, right? They depend on faxes, yet won't answer faxes and you absolutely MUST contact OCWEN by phone in order to get the process started. After a couple of confusing and irritating months, when no one in my office nor at OCWEN alerted to me to that fact (and these are people who work foreclosures, not short sales, so maybe that's why they didn't know), I finally got in touch with someone. OCWEN was surprisingly easy to work with and so was the 2nd mortgage company. It was almost like they rolled over and accepted (well, I did have to drop my commission a bit).

See my post on Ohio's agreement with several lenders, also. I think banks will soon come to their senses that properties just aren't going to sell at the prices they used to - whether or not there is a mortgage in place.

Now if we could only get them to do email or chat or some electronic communication other than faxing.... wouldn't that be nice!!

10:07pm • #112

Just the amount of responses tells you that we are all crazed over the way the banks are handling the short sales.  I have not yet found a way to make it easier or faster.  Just hang in there and hopefully we will get out of this market soon.

10:18pm • #113
APR
08
2008
The banks are completely backed up.  Some of the short sales I've done have had a 90-day lag time from submission to counter-offer.  BUT they have postponed the sale dates to accommodate me in those instances.  You just have to push and make sure they KNOW that the sale date has to be postponed.
8:33am • #114
JUN
10
2008
110,413 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

What can you say?  You pretty much said it all.  It is one big mess and on one really wins :o(  It is so frustrating .  Thanks for counting to 10 at the beginning. It showed in your eloquent writing!

11:38pm • #115
JUN
20
2008
1 Featured Post

You may want to take a look at my post regarding TILA audits as a way to expedite the short sale process.

1:23pm • #116
JUL
01
2008
Hi, I just wanted to drop you a line to let you know that my company works with many real estate agents just like yourself who are not interested in dealing with the tedious work of negotiating a short sale. However, there is no reason to walk away totally from a potential short sale deal, simply outsource it. What I mean by that is have my firm do the work of getting it negotiated and you focus on the deals that are going to make you money now. I speak all over the country on the subject of short sales and I teach others how to become successful short sale investors. Check out the website, http://www.riversofincome.com for more information. Thanks for your time. Sincerely, David Oswald
10:49pm • #117
JUL
02
2008
1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor

I sometimes think of the loss mitigators sitting in a basement somewhere looking pale and shifting through a pile of files as they talk on the phone.

Short sales will be a bane but all the same some bread for a while to come.

4:35pm • #118
JUL
24
2008

This is so frustrating and I don't see a solution in sight. I try to educate my clients up front, but sometimes they end up disappointed.

3:08pm • #119
AUG
01
2008
Outside Blog

The lender's Loss Mitigation departments ay lenders are over flowing with applications. This is why lenders are excepting 3rd party negotiators to step in and pick up some of the slack. This could help Realtors who are waiting patiently for lenders to get back to them with the short sale approval.

Example- if someone is 3 months behind and your waiting on an approval, it's possible that home could go to auction before you get a response.

I am a Loss Mitigation specialist. What we do is legally stop the foreclosure and negotiate with the lender on the home owner's behalf. We fight with the lender until we get a modification that fits with in the homeowners budget. We also can reduce or eliminate 2nd and 3rd mortgages if the homeowner owes more then what the property is worth. This could take up to 2 years. What this does is buys the homeowner ample time, and you as the Realtor as well. Unfortunately, we can only help those who live with in a judicial state, which basically means the courts are involved in the decision making. Here is the list of states we can help:

Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Nebraska
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Wisconsin

 

The reason for this is because these states are considered judicial which means the court and judge is involved in the foreclosure and decision making. Our legal department files motions with the court to stop the foreclosure procedure. This allows us enough time to ensure you get the best possible modification. We work to get you the best rate and term for up to 24 months. This means we may need to stop foreclosure procedures more than once during our negotiation process.

Please visit my website for more information www.keepyourproperty.info

5:18pm • #120
Localism Sponsor

Hi Donna, you certainly have touched a nerve with people with this post.  I share your pain, as do many others and I can only say that I work extremely hard to sell my clients off the short sale.  And I have to say that in several cases I have succeeded.

Ethically we are to show our clients a short sale if that is what they want.  But, I think if we spent more time showing them houses we would save time by doing fewer short sales.

In our area, the foreclosures are beginning to filter through and this allows me to sell away from the short sale.

9:50pm • #121
AUG
02
2008

Donna, have you got to 10 yet....short sales is not for me... Banks sometimes just don't get it...

2:21pm • #122
190,039 Points 6 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Donna, we have experienced similar frustrations. Sometimes I think the banks don't want to actually agree to anything because then they have to write down the asset. It's like they are in denial. We all know it's in their best interest to deal with the asset and get it off the books, the sooner the better, but it seems likek the employees and mangers just don't get it or don't care.

11:49pm • #123
AUG
12
2008

Excellent post and very informative.  The issue is a complicated one and you have focused on many important points.

10:27am • #125
190,039 Points 6 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Gary, thanks for that great letter! We are definitely going to use it. I have already gone to the President's office of a bank and saved a pre-foreclosure sale but this is even better. You jogged my memory - I have been told that the lower the offer, the higher up the chain it has to go to be approved. The loss mitigators are authorized up to a certain amount and then it has to go up the ladder.

 But there is a time when we need to get all the middlemen out of the way to save the deal and your letter does just that.

12:25pm • #126

I have been listing short sales in my area when other realtors will not touch them.  These have been typically listings that I already have listed and show history of days on the market.  I have my clients issue financial packets to lender so that they can start the approval process.  This does not seem to help when getting offer.  Now I am being told that most negotiatiors have up to 1500 files per desk.  I have tried to push and work through getting the process resolved. It is alot of time and effort to a probable no Sale.

 

Good luck Yvette Sloan

707-355-2171

4:56pm • #127
AUG
16
2008

In our market short sales and REO's account for close to 25% of all sales, so this is not a market to be ignored. I understand the frustrations many Realtors and their buyers are experiencing as lenders seem to ignore their offers and inquiries. But when I hear Realtors say they won't "waste" their time anymore on short sale transactions, it's like saying they are OK with a pay cut.

I have been in the mortgage business for over 15 years, the last 10 here in Florida, and certainly this is the most challenging market I have yet to experience. I can't ignore the fact that many of my clients, home owners and investors alike now find themselves behind the 8-ball in this economy. I would love to be able to help them with a refinance, but with the eroding equity and ever more restrictive lending programs, in most cases this is just not possible. 

I have tried working with a third party loss mitigation company in an attempt to do loan modifications and work-outs, but have had very little success. As a result I turned to a former client of mine who started a loss mitigation company offering short sale support services to Realtors and home owners.

We have found that the lenders prefer working with a third party loss mitigator who understands exactly what is required for short sale offers to be considered and subsequently accepted. Our short sale package is anywhere from 150 to 200 pages long and documents everything the lender requires to take to committee and render a decision.

We have seen short sale transactions completed in 30 days or less, but the average time is closer to 75 days. However, we are seeing these turn times coming down as both Fannie and Freddie begin to offer lenders monetary incentives to expedite the short sale process.

I can't say that short sales are here to stay, but I do believe this will be the market for the next couple of years. My advice is not to ignore this market but embrace it and find a reputable company to assist you with your short sale presentations. This will allow you to do what you do best, which is list and sell properties.

3:57pm • #128
AUG
18
2008

HI Donna, This is tough I have seen alot of short pays not get done because the banks won't budge and if they do they take a long time before they give in. I have found that when an attorney is involved it get's done alot faster at least on short refinances or loan modifications. Maybe you could get a real estate attorney involved if they would be willing to get paid by the banks when the deal is done?

Dan

" My mortgage business is in the tank but I found a solution"

1:02pm • #129
AUG
23
2008
330,803 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I think part of the problem is that since the banks are not making a lot of money (by their standards) right now, they've let a few people go. Thus they don't have enough people to process all of the paper work related to foreclosures and short sales. It's kind of a Catch 22 for them.

1:19am • #130
SEP
10
2008

There are some lenders who are ready to go (as they should be) with Short Sales and others who you must steer clear of.  They certainly do not have inter-department communication down which adds to the problem.

They will have way too much inventory (they already do) by the end of this quarter that they will have no choice but to start being proactive in getting short sales to go through and accepting investor offers of REOs.

The people that I work with have a 70% close ratio on the short sales because of knowing how to process them and which lenders to avoid.

We are also getting amazing offers accepted on REOs as well!

The time has come!  The place to make the most money in the next 18-36 months is in Short Sales and REOs

1:32pm • #131

If it is going to auction maybe your buyer would love you more if you helped him buy it that way. It coould come back to your advantage in the future. Sometimes we have to help others first and during this difficult time this could be a good idea. INstead of 25,00 off price he might get it for 100,000 or better off price and I bet he would like you then.

Good Luck

2:03pm • #132

If it is going to auction maybe your buyer would love you more if you helped him buy it that way. It coould come back to your advantage in the future. Sometimes we have to help others first and during this difficult time this could be a good idea. INstead of 25,00 off price he might get it for 100,000 or better off price and I bet he would like you then.

Good Luck

2:03pm • #133
SEP
11
2008
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

How did you get this posted into so many groups????????

12:36am • #134
SEP
15
2008
Localism Sponsor

Donna, I know exactly what you are saying and how frustrating it can be.  I waited 6 months for an answer on a (not too) short sale with a cash buyer.   If the bank accepted it in the beginning, they could have had theirmoney 6 months sooner and gained more than they lost in the end by not responding.  Short sales require a lot of patience and perseverance.

2:20am • #135
3 Featured Posts

Donna, here in California we are loaded with those infamous "Short Sales" most agents shy away from them simply because it is like putting the buyer in the freezer. If the buyer likes the house, he will stay there until something happens and then the bank comes back 6 months later and ask... for more money! True story, not a fun one. We did sell the buyer another place. We could have done it 6 months earlier. Thank you for your Post.

 

Antonio & Alexia Cardenas. "The Realtors In Motion"  www.ListedbyAntonio.com

6:27pm • #136
SEP
26
2008

The worst thing is waiting for an answer.  We had waited for the counter offer several weeks.   A few days before the Trustee's sale date the lender said that the OFFER is NOT GOOD" and they have closed the case getting ready to foreclose.

The Buyers wanted this house and made another offer.  We had to fax another short sale package all over again, not knowing if this new offer is good enough or not, or even close to what they were willing to take.  The lender came back with $55K larger counter.  The Buyers stepped up another $10K.

 While waiting for an answer, we have decided to put the house back on the market at the price the bank was willing to sell.  Several people called but no offers came in.  We are calling the lender and sending magazine reports, statistics from the Title company and MLS and still waiting for an answer.  Another sale date is approaching and we are afraid that they are going to do the same.  A day or two before the trustee's sale they will say that the offer is not good enough, close the file and foreclose.  This is WAMU and they just were bought by JP Morgan for pennies on a dollar.  Why they are not taking the cash offer even if it is 15% under what they would like?  A bird in a hand is worth more than two on a tree.  

8:48pm • #137
190,039 Points 6 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Helen, I had a similar experience with another bank. Instead of coming back with a counteroffer, they just said our offer wasn't good enough. Then they used a terrible BPO to justify their lack of response. This was a cash deal and we were within 12% of what was owed on the property. The buyers would have countered higher but we ended up walking away and buying another property.  Now the house sits on the market, closer every day to foreclosure which will net them much less than our cash offer.

11:16pm • #138
156,792 Points 11 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Donna, I feel for you.  I recently wrote a post about the "Bank's perspective" which may help.  It's on my blog at tinainvirginia.com.

Tina in Virginia

11:39pm • #139
SEP
28
2008
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

First question... how did you get this post in so many different groups????

 

Second, short sales are hard and you need training but the only 20% get approved number is WAY low if you know what you are doing.  We get about 85-100% of our deals done... we usually know going in if it is going to be a "bad" one or not... If it is pretty clean, one loan, FHA etc... we are at about 100%.

Good luck to all...

10:42am • #140
OCT
01
2008
373,822 Points 3 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Donna: It is totally amazing how each bank is so different in handling short sales....

Feel free to post this in the Short Sale Support Group too

11:00pm • #141
OCT
02
2008
189,347 Points

I wonder if maybe witha hint of a bail out the banks and mortgage co's are thinking to go all the way to foreclosure and then apply for government assistance...

7:01am • #142
OCT
06
2008
Localism Sponsor

It sure will be interesting to see how the bailout effects short sales and pre-foreclosures in the Northern Illinois market and accross the country.

5:43pm • #143
OCT
07
2008
307,411 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

i hate working on short sales! I know that is a niche, but it seems every time I get involved in one, it NEVER works out. NEVER. Buyer usually walks away after wasting several months of time, energy and effot--and making a serious attempt to buy a property.

8:47pm • #144
Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Erica,

Really ANYONE out there working short sales that do not specialize in them, have the experience AND the actual training... STOP...

That in my opinion and with no disrespect is why they NEVER close and buyers walk, wasting time etc...

We have approx a 90% success rate.  If there is just one loan we are at 100%. 

Code of ethics prohibits Realtors from working with clients in areas outside their expertise.  There is great money to be made... same with commercial real estate... I don't do commercial real estate because I don't know what I am doing...

You are right, there is a TON of work... so, refer them out WITHOUT a request for a referral fee... just take care of the customer/client...

My two cents... maybe even the full quarter...

9:21pm • #145
OCT
08
2008
307,411 Points 8 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

Mark

 

I know how to do a short sale, and have done them in the past. It seems that this past year has been worse than normal getting them through. I have 2 buyers right now waiting on answers, and we've done everything the bank has asked. Yet they still are keeping us in the dark.The packet was sent to them with everything they requested, with a promise of an answer in one case in 2 weeks. That was in july. So we are not doing anything wrong. The banks just don't seem to want to do the deal.

Regarding SARAH's post about having 2 prior buyers with 100% offers, and a 3rd one in the wings, waiting for the bank's reply, that's just wrong. If a property is listed at a certain price and the offer comes in full price, what's the problem? Unbelieveable. You're wasting everyone's time here.

 

2:21pm • #146
NOV
13

Donna, I share your same frustrations.  It does seem like a lot more could be done by lenders to communicate important information to potential short sale buyers and in a timely fashion.  However, I think lenders' loss mitigation teams are bogged down with so many files that it's almost impossible for them to be clearly mindful of the different time restraints affecting each short sale file they're assigned to.  I remember talking to a loss mitigation specialist last year, I can't remember if she was with Countrywide, EMC or CitiFinancial, but anyway she told me she had almost 200 short sale files she had to review.  I don't know about you, but that seems like a lot for one person to effectively manage.  My guess is that if lenders were able to staff up their loss mitigation departments, we would probably see a faster turnaround in short sale responses.

2:12pm • #147

Donna, all I can say is "you did a great job!"  Even though it didn't go the way you wanted to, and I know that you want to help your seller and at the same time yeah get paid... but it's not your fault it fell thru.  I understand you, because I've had the same scenario w/ my short sales.  I've been w/ the industry much less than you, and I got started w/ short sale because hey I figured it'll give me some experience and at the same time I can help my sellers.  Now, going back... it seems like I just want to get out of short sales.  I don't even want to hear the words SHORT and SALE in the same freaking sentence.  All listings that I have are short sale, and I kept on telling myself that no more short sales.  After I finish my last short sale, I don't want to take anymore but it seems like it's not happening.  Even if I want to stop doing short sale, I'm going to get a client that needs to do short sale so here I am again... Plus, all the banks that I've dealt with are just IMPOSSIBLE... they either take too long to give a response, that the buyer ends up cancelling the offer, or they ask for a promissory note from the seller or worst case scenario they lose the files or some documents that you've sent them and have to re-send them.  If you do end up re-sending them the documents, they will tell you to wait for another 30 days.  It's going to start all over again!  So, I don't know what these loss mitigation people are doing w/ our files but I just hope that they will have a better way of dealing w/ short sale.  Yeah, I agree w/ you that these lenders will get more money if they agree to short sale than going to foreclosure.  Ok, goodluck to us all!

5:58pm • #149
NOV
15
Localism Sponsor

Andreli...I can completely understand what you are saying..... short sales really are a long shot, especially now when so many of the banks are going to be restructuring mortgages to help people stay in their homes.

2:52pm • #150
Localism Sponsor

I am not sure things will get better soon...I know buyers who received the ok from the bank and are still waiting to close...they had given their notice and had to vacate their rental...the closing keeps being pushed out...maybe by Thanksgiving! 

4:50pm • #151
NOV
16

Short sales can be frustrating but I think it will get easier soon.  There are only going to be more and more short sales and the banks are going to be forced to work more with buyers - or they'll end up in foreclosure - and the banks don't want to own real estate!

8:59pm • #152
NOV
23
234,583 Points 5 Featured Posts

Donna - It is obvious that banks need to get a WHOLE LOT BETTER at the "short-sale" process.  Unfortunately, they simply don't seem as motivated to do so, as they should be.

9:17pm • #153