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33 Comments on What is "PAR" rate and how can I meet or beat it? (Using golf as an example.)
good post man. Why didn't I think of golf as a good methaphor for the basis of explaining this is beyond me, but i'm glad someone did. thank you.
Great analogy ken. I do think the mortgage industry needs to do a much better job in a non-biased and informational way of educating buyers in how the whole process works, without trying to randomly piecemeal the information together on their own.
Jason - thanks my friend. Yes - more knowledge = more power!
Donne - thanks for your comments. I think people deserve to be educated even when they think they already know it all.
Lenn - thanks for speaking up in support!
Kristi - I'm to stupid not to stick with the facts :)
John - thanks for the congrats and I prefer agents don't try and explain the mortgage process but I do urge them to be familiar with it so they can sniff out a scam.
Regina - brevity has it's place but not in my blog :) By the way, do a little research on me (re: shorten it up and make millions teaching)
Tony - bait and switch was a killer before, during and after the boom. If all of the legit originators would ban together with a full frontal attack it would really help.
Teri - Thanks. Yes, the explanation is NOBODY can quote a real rate until they have examined the credit, income, assets, and property unless they are (at best) guessing or (in reality) lying. Most GFE/TILs are worthless. I have seen them without attorney fees, origination fees, and more.
Tom - ha! Wait, I can make 1%? Hmmmm...
Marian - the average duffer shoots a 114 and reports a 103 so I wouldn't sweat having a real handicap at 26.
Jeff - you are dead on right about 50% of the loan officers not knowing cradoodle. I don't even like talking about the mortgage industry with the average bank or lender loan officer.
John - you thought of it you just had not yet realized you thought of it! Thanks.
Chris - we who care do a LOT of education. You're not going to find the masses who work as mass volume loan officers at the big lenders giving a patootie about explaining. They get paid on volume and override and could care less about the borrower's life. We who live in the neighborhood and eat at the same restaurants as our customers take much more care to not do any messy stuff.
Ken ... very very well put. I thought I understood it pretty well, but that explained it even more clearly.
Nice job !
Cheers !
Sheldon
Ken- I love the golf analogy- great post!
Great read! Borrowers will eventually have to pay somewhere down the line. Some of them just don't realize it
Ken - What a coincidence - I also have a handicap, although mine is around 36 the last time I played. :) This was a stellar job of explaining how rates really work!
Ken, as usual a great explanation. Now you are educating the world instead of just me. And I suck at golf, but can beat almost ANYONE through the course with the cart... on or off of the cart trail.
;^ )
I had heard of PAR regarding loans before and nice to read your explanation. As far as PAR on the golf course, they happen way too infrequently for my liking.
Sheldon - thanks! Actually there is MUCH more to it but who wants to read the whole book for free on AR?
JB - thanks.
Joshua - yep. And the few percent who read this won't know whether or not to believe me.
Jason - thanks. I have another handicap but as long as I can remember 1+1 I can keep playing golf. Wait, now who are you?
Lane - somehow I imagine you would not enjoy golf nearly as much on "cart path only" days :/
Ronnie - thanks for commenting. Would love to play almost anywhere in Hawaii! That's a really amazing billboard of a signature you have there.
Ken,
GREAT post! We, too, have lost loans to others who "sell" mortgages rather than "originate" them. We have actually, on a couple of occasions, sat down with our customers and walked through a rate sheet and explained how pricing works. I wouldn't always recommend it, but when these particular customers were being LIED to, we had to put the kibosh on it quick.
Great job!
Maryellen
Maryellen - thanks! I actually have always gone through how pricing works if the borrower did not qualify for the lowest rates. I also always have explained how if they shop 2 mortgage companies (even if both are big, well known, national lenders or banks) they are going to get two wrong answers. When they insist on not giving any information but getting a rate I always say, "1%". I'm not being any more ridiculous than they! (And I can do 1% - there is actually a way. Of course I haven't had any takers :)
Hi Ken: What a great post - There is so much misconception abouts rates. I love the fact that you are candid and not afraid to lay the cards on the table. That speaks volumes. Thanks again.
Gwenn - thanks. I just wish we all did. SO many honest deals could have been done instead of all the misleading and bait and switch. How many times have I had clients to whom I offered a competitive rate with competitive closing costs leave for some pie in the sky from some bank or credit union only to call me from the closing table and ask, "can you still help me?" Not if you sign! Get up, walk away, come back here an PROMISE me you've learned your lesson so I don't waste another $1500 submitting your loan!
I have been known to get a golf cart "delayed" before... not stuck, it was recoverable.
Great post! I always find it hard to respond to someone who finds out I'm in the mortgage industry and they immediately as what rates are at. I only it were that simple. A wonderful explanation of how the rates work and I learned a little about golf too! :)
Get explanation and great analogy. It's all about a cognizant knowledge of the facts and reasonable expectations that are derived from them. Congrats on your post being acknowledged in the current edition of MWIR.
Ken I enjoyed this very much.
Great Post. Good job, it is very insightful reading all the posts on activerain.
Jose Lopez
I specialize in Sarasota Foreclosures and Bradenton Foreclosures
Great post. A must read for consumers
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