The Lending Industry Needs to Step Up to the Plate

I was reading yet another blog post on this topic from top Realtor and blogger, Neal Bloom from Florida: WHAT IS THE USE...JUST PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!

Neal discussed a bad transaction, that he had to deal with a bad loan officer.  The responses to his post had several that were quite stimulating.  Jeff Belonger a top loan officer from New Jersey weighed in heavily on the conversation.  Jeff's responses give you a look at how a quality loan officer does business.

I have written a few posts on this issue and have responded to more than I can count written by others in our industry.

If I were in the lending industry I would be doing exactly would the Realtors do.  Realtors push for law changes that require high standards for our industry and improved laws to better protect the public.  Realtors have a code of ethics, not everyone follows it, but we have a procedure for dealing with them.  Did I read this stuff in a magazine? No I have been to the state legislature and city council lobbying with fellow Realtors to get improvements to our laws.

                                                                       Money Cop

I just do not see that coming from the lending industry.  If you do not police your lending industry better, you end up with what we have now; the Wild West and public's interest is not being served as well as it could.

After giving this a lot of thought, I have concluded that the one major difference between the lending industry and the Realtors is that we have two Realtors in almost every deal.  If you have a bad real estate agent he or she does not operate in a vacuum. There will be another agent in almost every deal that has to work directly with them.  A good agent will overcome many of the deficiencies helping all involved.  If so required, hopefully the agent on the other side will take some form of action against the bad agent.  There is a check and balance to some degree and a process for taking corrective action both within the industry and through government.

That is not the case in the lending side.  There is only one loan officer in every deal.  Top loan officers in the area do not have to deal with them directly.  They may hear stories about the wildest of them, but never are involved in their dirty transactions.  The closest thing to dealing with them is when they get an occasional client stolen through deceptive practices.  (That is a topic for an entire blog post on its own.)  

When a Realtor or a client has an issue with a loan officer there is no easy action to be taken, short of getting state licensing involved.  The lending industry has no grievance committee; no organizations to self police their industry, no code of ethics.

Before I end this discussion I want to add two thoughts.

  1. I have received many pre-qual and pre-approval letters from lenders that are worthless.  They claim to have pre-approved buyers fro a loan to only find later that the buyer's are not credit worthy.  They cause sellers, the Realtors, the escrow companies and everyone involved a lot of wasted time and money.  There should be some recourse.
  2. I have had clients get a GFE (Good faith Estimate) in writing at the beginning of the process, to only have the lender pull the big bait and switch at the end of the process, when the client is so deep in the sale they either take it or lose the home.

OK I vented enough.  Feel free to share stories with examples of good and bad loan officers.  Also please add any ideas on how this situation can be improved.

 
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65 Comments on The Lending Industry Needs to Step Up to the Plate

I agree that the lending industry needs to have higher standards.  A federal exam, as well as individual state exams should be required.  I think the "proctoring" of many exams leaves a lot to be desired as well.  It is depressing to see incompetent people representing the industry in which I work.

05/03/2007 12:29 PM by Michael Byrne (Gateway Funding Diversified Mortgage Services)


I just deleted my comment that I was going to edit!

Okay.,...stricter enforcement for all! Licensing, after certification from the school and passing a state test, code of ethics, (not only for buyer's and seller's but for the whole world! Okay....that won't fly...with our industry and related businesses!!) They will have to go throught he whole process...renew every two years and do extra classes as well, membership fees, certifications, ethics committee, and the whole nine yards....let's see how many are weeded out and good ones remain!  (that's what happens with real estate agents...how many have weeded out this year?)  It will show seriousness, sincerity and all the rest that will make a good business person.

05/03/2007 12:30 PM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), Hawaii Real Estate & Hawaii Relocation (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)


that is all in place

the two realtors in the transaction can hurt things as much as help them!  Collusion, personality conflicts and just bad business are all ways that can create issues.

The truth is that there are many other reasons why the lending industry is problematic... one of them is the constant bickering between parties in a transaction

but the lending industry as a whole has 3 parts not 2...

Real Estate has Realtors and FSBOs

Lending has Banks, Wholesale Lenders and Brokers!  Banks lobby for things their way - and Lenders and brokers have to deal with the mess!  Banks have more power and therefore win in their lobbying efforts and make it harder on everyone else

But you can't blame the real estate mess we have on Lenders... it is a shallow and myopic view.  Every single type of entity that could be involved in a transaction is in one way or another party to the blame.

05/03/2007 01:50 PM by Boca Raton Florida & Boynton Beach Florida Mortgage Loans


Michael - I agree, I work with some real professional loan officers and if I were them I would hate that anyone could get the same license with no basic requirements.

Sally- I would be happy with a basic test, an ethics code and a process for going after incompetence and unethical behavior, short of bringing in the lawyers and government.

David - Wow very defensive, I must have hit a nerve.  Do you have any solutions to the problem?

There are many other combinations than just Realtors and FSBOs.  With that said, on the Realtor side there is a process in place to handle grievances, education and testing, along with a state recovery fund and errors and omissions insurance.  All promoted and supported by the NAR and our local board. 

I worked for 4 years at the legislature, I saw the Realtors lobbying for improvements and since becoming a Realtor I have joined the cause.  From the lending side I have only seen attempts to block reform.

My answer is getting long and may turn into another blog post soon.  If you read my other blog posts I have written even more about bad real estate agents and limited service agents, including the large number who are not members of the Board of Realtors and have no code of ethics (another fun group to do business with).

05/03/2007 02:15 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy,

Dam that felt good!

I couldn't have said it better although I said it in my own little way.

Youare absolutely right, there needs to be more rules on the lending sides but to protect the public not the people in that industry.

They have all these addendum's that cover them but not the 2 sides that want to move on with their lives the buyer and the seller.

I am going to add this link onto mine.

Maybe someone needs to knock down the door of this watch dog and tell them it is not working.

05/03/2007 02:18 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Neal - You are right on the money, the punblic is who is getting the short end.

Maybe the dog needs longer teeth or a couple of pit bull bull buddies.  LOL

05/03/2007 02:30 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy..not to hijack your post but this is directed to David with some confusion as to what he really is expressing here,and here is the way I interpet what he is saying....

Do you think when I get a deal for a seller in front of me I immediately think of way to bicker with them or have a personality conflict?

Why would I do that when all we want to do is close the deal peacefully.

I do not have anything to do with giving loans to people. I sell real estate.

But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is happening here.

You are just sticking up for your industry and that is only natural but to lay blame on us is wrong.

One thing on my particular transaction was the other realtor was not on top of their client..that is true but when you switch lenders 3 times without any notification in writing is wrong.

And when you guarantee something and you are told underwriting already approved this and to change the story from one thing to another is beyond words.

How can you say that bickering and personalities are part this.There would not be any of that if you guys would communicate in person with the inter office personnel and stop passing the blame..you should be talking to the processors, the underwriter's,the secretaries,the assistants and anyone else involved and stop worrying about defending your industry. I will be the first person on A/R or anywhere on the Internet to write a post praising any LO on a deal well done and that it was a pleasure working with them.

Not all realtors are perfect too and I am sure I made plenty of mistakes as well...but i do not hide until someone calls me asking why i am stalling..that to me is gutless.

How can we work together if your side continues to have this type of attitude.

You find me one that does a deal with me on any side and I will write the longest article I can think of praising them.

They need to do their homework before making a false promise and stop passing the buck when things go wrong.

05/03/2007 02:34 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Randy, If I'm not mistaken I don't even think you need a license to be a loan officer in Florida. Broker yes, LO no. We have many REALTORS(R) that are even originating loans. It's simple for them, "I'll try to get you financing. Let's go find a house and see if it works". They have nothing to lose. If they are successful they get two commissions if they fail, well, they told the buyer, with bad credit, up front that they would try. The problem is when they issue a preapproval letter that is worthless and my seller takes their house off the market for month based on their word(which is also worthless). Very frustrating.

BTW You look great!!!!!!! Thanks is quite the accomplishment. Congratulations.

 

05/03/2007 02:43 PM by Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc


Randy 

BB is right any clause in our contract that is there to be enforced never is.

The only way to for the parties to understand this is not a game is to enforce loan status,loan approvals,loan commitment dates and so fourth,and to tell you the truth as BB said they are worthless and very hard to fight in court because there is always a loop hole for them to get out of it.

Off subject I already noticed the change in Randy..must be from all the blogging! LOL!

05/03/2007 02:52 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Neal - Please don't hold back and tell us what you really think.  LOL  The sad truth is I am sure many clients and most real estate agents will completely agree with everything you said.

Bryant - I agree there should be some recourse for the sellers when their home is taken off the market based on a lie or incompetence.

Neal - I have gotten to the point that I do not want to work with buyers if they are using a loan officer that I know to be rotten.  My brother in Missouri actually told a client he need to decide whether he was getting a new loan officer or a new Realtor, because of some absolutely unethical things the loan officer did to another one of his clients.

05/03/2007 03:04 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy: you said I comment off the wall sometimes....Was it unrealistic of me to want the WHOLE WORLD to be accountable for their own actions?  Why?  Haha...just kidding.  I for one have had to put up with people saying  "real estate agents" are all slimy. I just prove them wrong.  The same with LO's or any other professional... If everyone does their job well they don't need to stick up for ALL in your industry as there are good and bad in all walks of life. (does this sound too much like reasoning???)

05/03/2007 03:13 PM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), Hawaii Real Estate & Hawaii Relocation (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)


Wow - you do look great!!!!!!!! wow - did I say wow?  Oh my gosh wow.... great blog and great comments - I read the blog after I said wow.... you really do look wonderful

05/03/2007 03:25 PM by Central Oregon Real Estate | Thesa Chambers, Broker (RE/MAX Sunset Realty La Pine)


Randy,

You'll laugh at this one..my pharmacist is also a mortgage person!

And this one is better..a guy who was fixing one of the roofs on our investment properties was a roofer,a loan officer and a Realtor..he even showed me loan applications and contracts in his truck!

He kept them under the shingles.

05/03/2007 03:48 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Sally,

Stop cutting in to my post haha! only kidding!

I know..I was teasing him.

I could not even get into that size. lol!

05/03/2007 04:25 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Funny... all Realtors bashing Mortgage people...

Bryant - you don't need a license to be an LO pretty much anywhere ... you can work for a bank or retail lending as a W2

There are states like NY that have no license for any originator - just the business owner.

I just get VERY tired of Realtors blaming mortgage people for everything.  1/2 the reason good mortgage brokers go to closings is to keep from getting thrown under the bus for the mistakes of others.  I have an attorney trying to crucify me right now and it is all HIS fault that there is a hold up!

There are far too many licensed Real Estate agents and unlicensed everything else for the entire industry across the board...

For every bad LO you can find someone equally as bad in another field in our industry

 

05/03/2007 04:51 PM by Boca Raton Florida & Boynton Beach Florida Mortgage Loans


Neal:  Thought I'd help Randy out just with the girlie pants stuff  (he doesn't bare his mid section...hahahaha)..he just left to go show property.  We were laughing at your stuff...you need a beer. And the "girlie" stuff is what Randy would say.....

 

05/03/2007 04:55 PM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), Hawaii Real Estate & Hawaii Relocation (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)


Sally - There are good and bad in every industry.  That is why we need to have an standards and an ethic code.

Thesa - Thank you, I still have a little more weight to lose, but it is coming off steadily.

Neal - That is too funny, at least he wasn't a hair styist too. 

05/03/2007 05:32 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy..... I need to make this response quick, because my pizza just got here.  ;o)  No lunch today. And I have a lot to say, but I will be back later.

1st....  thanks a lot for the very polite compliment. I was just telling my mom about you, Sally, Top, and a few others....all from Hawaii. She told me that maybe I should move.  ;o)

In regards to David P's comments. When I first met David on here, I was like... woo Nelly. But from watching his writing, his comments, and from talking to him on the phone.... the guy is just very passionate about his work, as I am. And sometimes we jump at a comment, before fully thinking it out. I will admit, I get tired of hearing the loan officer bashing stuff, but in all honesty, it doesn't bother me as much as it did 4 yrs ago. As long as you give me a chance to prove myself, we don't have to worry about the issue at large.  disclosure  (sure, I am not perfect and have made some mistakes in the past.... rare...  ;o)  But it's the baiting and switching that drives us good loan officers crazy)

But getting back to the topic of what Randy was discussing and a few of the comments. 

  • in regards to each Loan officer being licensed. --  I think Utah is the strictest at this time. Tests, FBI prints, education....etc etc. But you won't see this happen in many states for one main reason. And this is my opinion... but the States would lose fee income per se.   ie. In the state of New Jersey, the lender has to have a license which costs money. And each loan officer has to have a New Jersey solicitor's license. This costs $100 and is renewed every 2 years. Think about it... if the state closed down a lender or 100's of loan officer's, think about the money lost. Sad, but true. And this is just my opinion.
  • sure, a Federally Charted Bank supersedes all licensing applications for the loan officers. And also some guidelines and rules, hence why you see many brokers and bankers getting signed up with these such banks. What's funny is that many of the banks haven't been on the lending side of things in the last 2 years. They see opportunity through other lenders. 'Greed'  Now think about it.... I own a mortgage company with 50 loan officers. I can get away with a little more and it's not even my money. Pros and cons, but what about the public?  Just a bank's name
  • Randy... you talked about the fact that there is 1 loan officer on each deal... and that other loan officer's don't have to deal with that one that is not good at his or her job. Unscrupulous.  Well, you are semi wrong. I do have to deal with that loan officer for 2 reasons, even though I am not a part of that transaction.  A.  they took money and food out of my mouth because of their actions.  B.  As David pointed out, they did mislead, lie, deceive, ....giving us good loan officer's a black eye, a bad name.  So, we do deal with them, but not directly, but indirectly. It still affects us one way or another.

Some solutions??? 

  • As a realtor and I mentioned this in Neal Bloom's post....  call that loan officer's manager. Sure, manager's protect their own. But a good one, as I once had, no matter what or who's fault, will sit down with me. And make sure that the transaction goes well and will stay on top of it with all parties involved. These are the ones that have pride in their company and staff. (about the name here) If you aren't satisfied with the manager.....  A. if it's a small or medium company, go to the VP or owner of the company.  B. Large company, climb the ladder to the regional manager.
  • Report these people to the BBB.
  • File a complaint with the state.

 

I see soooooo many people complain. You know how you can help, follow these solutions. I can't do it, I am on the other end, not part of the transaction. Sure, it takes time.  And I also believe in giving these people 1 chance at first, a 10 day extension. If it was a minor problem, that is long enough. A major problem that I have seen take place is that someone might need a 30 day extension because that loan officer didn't turn the loan in when they were suppose to. Don't ask me why, just that I have seen this more than once.

 

Overall.... I was able to eat a whole medium pizza as I wrote this. I couldn't wait to not answer nor stop. And I couldn't wait to eat....remember, Jeff didn't have lunch. Now I am full.....  ;o)   I might come back a little later. I think I was babbling a little and I am not going to proof what I wrote.

                                                                                                       jeff belonger

05/03/2007 05:43 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


In regards to talking to managers and or reporting the loan officer or lender.....  like I said, depending on the situation, give them a chance. Things do happen. 

But... if you tried calling them and e-mailing them and you don't get back any type of communication within 24 hours, which I think is lenient.  .....  then follow the steps that I mentioned. Most people don't like tackling a problem in life, let alone a work issue. Especially if their manager or company doesn't care. They will start to care when they start getting reports, notices, and in some cases, ...fines.  Money does hurt and so does standing with the BBB.

We all talk as in complaining about these practices... Stand up, use your voice. My challenge to all realtors and consumser, voice your complaints to the people that can do something about it and not to each other. It can and has made a difference at times. 

                                                                                                              jeff belonger

05/03/2007 05:50 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


 batter

  Randy and to all other realtors and consumers.....  I always step up to the plate. Waiting on all curve balls, fast balls, change ups, sliders.... and anything else that you can throw.

It comes down to honesty, communication, and response time. Sure, product knowledge and being creative is big, but if you don't have the first several that were mentioned, the other's don't do any good when it comes to adequately closing that loan. Just angry and upset people.

                                                                                  jeff belonger

05/03/2007 06:10 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Neal - I have nothing to match those shoes.  LOL

Sally - And I don't have the legs from them either.

Neal - Me either

05/03/2007 06:16 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Okay,....I have been reading the blogs to Randy's blog and it is getting quite long!  My opinion...again...short but to the point.

THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD IN ALL WALKS OF LIFE, AND IN EACH PROFESSION AND WE ALL HAVE TO "PROVE" OURSELVES FOR ANOTHER PERSON IN OUR IMMEDIATE PROFESSION WHO HAS MESSED UP. Bottom line, no one need take it so personal! (someone told me that before....hmmm)

Bottom line, we as Realtors abide by a COE, why not everyone else that is related to this industry?  And fees or licensing?  Well, I guaranty our fees top everyone's ....but it sure shows how serious one is willing to keep up their credentials!

No bashing here...just straight, honest feedback (where have I heard that before?  Oh, in my profile haha!)

Hope I'm not chiming in too much Randy...

05/03/2007 06:24 PM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), Hawaii Real Estate & Hawaii Relocation (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)


Wow Jeff - You wrote an entire blog.  Thank you for your insight on this.  I was hoping you would weigh in.  I agree with everything you said.  Great loan officers like you are what we depend on.

Here is the problem.  The client is still injured.  There is no simple process to fix that.  He can not go to the local lender association and file a grievance.  The loan officer who caused the problem may have no training at all and has a $200 or less total investment in his career, with no way for the public to know that.

I work with several great loan officers, I would recommend them and I do almost daily.  But what about the thousands more that are just running loose out there.  What a horrible nightmare we are asking the public to navigate through.

05/03/2007 06:33 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Sally - I am glad you kept it short.  LOL 

I believe our COE and education requirements (which I would like increased) does make a difference.

05/03/2007 06:35 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy, I am sorry, did you want the short version?   lol   You over-paid me for that comment.... lol

Seriously.... Randy didn't ask me to comment. I actually read your comment in Neal's post and decided to swing on over. And I wrote that comment while eating pizza.

In any case.... yes, there are a lot of good loan officers out there. And yes, the client is injured. I hate to say this, maybe they will start to listen to the realtors more, after this happening to them or after hearing horror stories. The only problem with this is that some realtors work with lenders that aren't that good, so it can be a catch-22.

Overall.... I am still curious, why can't the client complain to the BBB?  Or to the state? And to whoever else that they can complain to?You said agent?  Did you mean loan officer?  Sure, the public doesn't know this, but if there are enough complaints, it will get recognized, either by their own company, but the state, by HUD, and anyone else involved.

In regards to the 1,000's running around... again, you all need to step up to the plate and work from the  ground floor. You have to start some where. And yes, it takes time to do this. But if you don't and others don't follow suit, this will continue and can get worse. Again, just my .02, but someone needs to start some where. Let's stop complaining, that takes times, and move forward....  both realtor and consumer.

                                                                                                       jeff belonger

 

 

05/03/2007 06:46 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Randy, as always you have done a great job of generating some very good discussion on this topic.  And Jeff you better lay off that Pizza buddy or your going to picking up the pounds that Randy has lost :) 

Licensing of Loan Officers will not solve the problem, just like licensing Realtors has not prevented bad Realtors, but it is a step in the right direction, and I for one would welcome it.  If nothing else it would ensure that a Loan Officer has had some type of training, and also held to some degree of ethical standards.  Requiring continuing education classes once a Loan Officer is licensed I believe would go a long way to address the problem.

Having said this, Realtors are a large part of this problem, when they do not insist on a Buyer getting a pre-approval letter from a Lender they trust.  This does not mean that the Buyer has to do business with this Lender, but they would have to be checked out by them.  If a Realtor works closely with a Loan Officer, that Loan Officer would most likely not have a problem doing this for them free of charge. This would eliminate a large percentage of the bad pre-qualification letters out there.

So Realtors need to also take part of the responsibility for this problem as well. 

05/03/2007 06:50 PM by George Souto (McCue Mortgage Co.)


Jeff - You make good points, if they only listen to their Realtor more.  Not every buyer starts with the Realtor, they may have started with the loan officer first. 

Yes they can complain to the BBB, that will not fix the problem for them.  If someone files a complaint against a Realtor with the local Board there is a process to address their injury.  I am truly amazed that more of the top mortgage folks don't seem to embrace something similar for their industry.

George - Absolutely, Realtors need to be professionals and take responsibility.  I have been even harder on bad Realtors in my posts.  We need to police our own industry also.

I have a simple policy.  If the buyer does not have a pre-approval from a reputable lender they do not get in my car and I do not bring them in onto someone elses property.

05/03/2007 07:05 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


George... I semi agree....   but even approvals don't always mean squat. Read Neal's blog. Also, I know some loan officer's in the past that did their on approval letters. As we have stated before, sometimes it' snot worth the paper that it is printed on. Just food for thought. 

Again, I agree to a degree.... And I know you handle this differently and professionally, but not everyone unfortunately.    And in regards the pizza?  I was hoping that Randy could lose that for me also...  ;o)

                                                                                                            jeff belonger

05/03/2007 07:05 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Jeff- I was ignoring your question. I just found where you were referencing I changed it to read loan officer.

05/03/2007 07:08 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy... you lost me. You were ignoring it?  lol  Now I forget what I was referencing to?  What was changed and where?  Maybe I have a pizza jam of the brain.

                                                                                                             jeff belonger

05/03/2007 07:13 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Jeff - You are right I get many loan letters that are only good for toilet paper and they really are too rough for that. 

You are making my mouth water, no pizza for 9 months so far.  That was my favorite food on earth before.  Oops, I have to think about other things.  Back to my bottle of water.

05/03/2007 07:13 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy... I am sooo sorry to. I read some mentions of your looks and diet. I just noticed your new picture. That's awesome. CONGRATS.... sorry about the jello comments. I didn't realize. Noticed how I disguised _________ with jello. 

In any case... what was it that you did change? thanks....   okay, time to move onto another blog.  ;o)  But I do love good discussion.

                                                                                                              jeff belonger

05/03/2007 07:22 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Jeff - Here is the corrected comment:

Here is the problem.  The client is still injured.  There is no simple process to fix that.  He can not go to the local lender association and file a grievance.  The loan officer who caused the problem may have no training at all and has a $200 or less total investment in his career, with no way for the public to know that.

I changed that from agent on the above comment.

You are killing me with the pizza discussion.  I will go back to my bottle of water.

05/03/2007 07:24 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy.... got ya. And it's not ____________, it's jello.   ;o)

I hope I didn't scare any of the others off with all of my comments. lol  Is anyone else out there?  Or am I just addicted and passionate. Where is my buddy David P. I need a reliever.  What's sad is that I already had my 10 comments at 2:30 am this morning... lol

                                                                                                              jeff belonger

05/03/2007 07:29 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Jeff - I had mine at 7:30pm Hawaiian Time yesterday.  We are hours behind you.

It is a good discussion.  I wish it is happening a little more among the leaders in the industry and the legislators.

05/03/2007 08:10 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Sally... the Realtors have a COE which is redundant to licensure.  The Mortgage Brokers that are licensed have the same legal issues and liabilities to uphold as real estate agents.  One of the differences in Florida is that Realtors have to have E&O insurance whereas Mortgage Brokers do not.  The Mortgage Brokerage Businesses, Correspondent Lenders and Mortgage Lenders have to have varying amounts of surety bonds though to stand in place of E&O.

On top of that, the Florida state department of business and professional regulation monitors real estate, boxing, barbers, cosmetologists etc etc etc... the Department of Financial Services which is run by the treasury with its own enforcement procedures monitors lending institutions.  There are far more people monitoring lenders which is why there is no redundant board to monitor us.

The NAMB and FAMB serve as our internal education etc associations.  Members are required to take Fraud Prevention classes.

For the most part I'm tired of hearing that it is all OUR fault as mortgage professionals because there are so many other wrinkles that come up.

Right now I'm working with a title company on a delicate deal and clear to close came in with one condition missing - Clear Lien Search - how the most basic title request was overlooked is beyond me but now the buyer and seller are arguing and the 1031 is in jeopardy.  The agents were bickering until I stepped in and told them to work it out.

I feel that if we just stopped playing the blame game so much and started working together, we could forcefully weed out the bad eggs - both the bad realtors AND loan officers.

But again here is my point laid out again - a Realtor bashing a Mortgage Broker in a Public Post! 

If you have a problem with a specific loan officer - wouldn't it be better to label the BAD ones, not the entire WHOLE of us considering there ARE good guys on this side of the table??

 

05/03/2007 08:47 PM by Boca Raton Florida & Boynton Beach Florida Mortgage Loans


David - You did not get the point of my post.  The point is there are many really good loan officers, but the industry as a whole has not done enought to raise the bar and protect the public.  If I were one of those top loan officers I would want that.  As a matter of fact several of the loan officers I work with have expressed similar points of view on more than one occasion.

I consider myself a very good Realtor and I want higher standards for Realtors.  I have lobbied for better laws and am involved with our Board of Realtors trying to be part of those improvements.

Why would any good loan officers get defensive when the subject of something similar for their industry comes up?  If I were a loan officer I would be embracing the idea.

As far as the bad ones, there are tons of them in my market.  From the responses we are getting from other states, we are not unique.  Wouldn't most professionals such as yourself want to see them improved or removed from your market place?

If you are a good professional, why would you take any of our comments so personal.  We discuss bad Realtors and messed up transactions a lot more often than bad loan officers.  When someone mentions a bad Realtor, I just think I know one just like that, I hope I never have to deal with them again either.

05/03/2007 09:29 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


 You know what I noticed?  Not too many people saw the your last request in your blog....

Quote:  OK I vented enough.  Feel free to share stories with examples of good and bad loan officers.  Also please add any ideas on how this situation can be improved.

This guy matches that one...harhar! 

05/04/2007 12:29 AM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), Hawaii Real Estate & Hawaii Relocation (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)


I guess we all remember the bad ones.  The good ones are just expected and do not stand out in our memories.

05/04/2007 12:36 AM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


I guess David did not want to answer my comment.

David..all I am saying is there are a lot of bad apples and I never directed it at you personally.

You did not seem to pick up the part about praising and wroking together.

I was stressing that it seems most deals I am seeing are problems and the problems are also on the buyers agent side for not following through with the buyers LO.

True..there are many many many realtor's whom I have worked with on deals and they never do anything and as a matter of fact this particular deal is a perfect example ..I am just saying that if there are problems then why do the LO's hide from us until the end is too late and they stall ...can't they just come to us and tell us so we can help save the deal on our side?

There are plenty of agents who probably mailed in the answers to the RE exam and I cannot believe they are still in the business.

Face it if the deal is going sour because of the LO's mistakes..do you think the realtor's have to step in and speak to the buyer and sells and try to work it out?

Just give me a valid reason why they would lie and hide and please do not tell me that they do not want to talk to us so they can get their job done because that was a lame excuse this guy gave me..get it right the first time if you can.

I never would see a LO step in and try to help with that part.

And if a Realtor or LO does a good job on a deal with me or even if there were a few problems but they were willing to help ..then I would be the first one to send them a recommendation letter and send them additional business.

05/04/2007 06:30 AM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Neal.....   as in regards to why loan officer's do this? Not communicate when things go bad?  Just my thinking..

  •  They are hoping that it works out at the end. That somehow they get lucky. Like a craps role.
  •  Some just don't know what they are doing, period. And they hate giving bad news... ( very poor excuse )
  •  Some are trained just to bring in loans at any cost and work through the problems after the fact. They don't want to admit this to you. ( part of this can be called bait and switch )

There are mixed and matched reasons and examples of what they do. Overall, people just don't like confrontation, so they would rather put it off to the very end.....or sometimes, never respond or talk to you. And then some of these people  get that god complex...  meaning, they would say to you... "why are you questioning me, I know what I am doing. It will get done. Stop bothering me, so I can get this done."  Yes, all lame excuses.  I have heard these before from other realtors and even out of loan officers mouths.

You want to hear a very funny story....  just a FYI before I tell it. I hate  confrontation and bad news... ever since I was a kid. Would never tell my parents anything bad. My mom can't understand why I am so successful in mortgages and when it comes to stuff like this. Why am I different. I learned my first year in the business that I either had to be upfront and truthful when problems occurred or be totally dishonest and not truthful. Picked the first for several reasons, even though I hated giving bad news. (and I don't have to that much, from my side...  ;o) )  Not only am I not that type of guy.... and that I was all about standing up to the plate and one to try to build relationships.... but I also noticed that I would be different from so many loan officers, because I would be the one to alert anyone when something might not be right. 

Hears my story....  I was dealing with a realtor who went on vacation for a week. I was in touch with her assistant. The client that I was dealing with, who the realtor and I had no ties together, was still shopping after he signed contracts. I finally got a copy from the realtor and noticed that he was 9 days into the contract and that the commitment date was soon approaching. I called the assistant to let her know why we probably weren't going to meet the commitment date. She was a little upset with me and I explained why. I then proceeded to tell her that she needed to let the other agent know. She raised her voice at me... and this went on for 5 minutes. I finally hung up and took it upon myself to call the other agent myself. He was very appreciative and I explained that once the client chose  me and I did application, that I would keep him updated also. The assistant found out about this phone called and called me up. She yelled at me for about 5 minutes, very loud. After I wasn't getting anywhere, I just hung up. When the other realtor came back and we talked about this, she apologized for her assistant.

Why am I telling this story.... one reason... so many loan officer's don't even want to deal with this when it's not their fault. But I know for a fact that over 50% of the issues that become problems are usually the fault of the loan officer. And another thing...after this incident, I could have crawled into my whole and just been my old self, just letting problems go, until the very end. But as I learned from my childhood years, it just makes matters worse.

 

Okay....  a semi book here. Getting back to David's point of view. Yes, do I hate hearing so many realtors talk negative about loan officers?  Yes, I do.... but you know what. It doesn't bother me at all, as long as they don't hold that out of state lender theory on me. That is the problem that I have. Because about 35% of my business is done out of my state and I have been very successful at it. And for the fact, some of the same problems that they are having could happen with a loan officer in their same town. It's reality and fact.  This is the part that I dislike. The rest of it?  It's just nature of the business and we have to deal with it...until we can clean house, which will never happen. As I have stated before, some people are just sales people, period. They can sell very good, no matter what they are selling. They can be convincing just to get business in the door.

Well, I guess you have my opinion to its fullest.  And yes, there are some bad and lazy realtors also. But I see more deals killed by a loan officer last minute than because it was a realtors fault. Sure, have I seen a title company or two not do their part, slip up, forget something... which either prolonged a closing or killed a closing?  Yes... but the overall picture David is that most of the negativity is created by the lending side. Just facts....   sorry.

I do think we need realtors to sep up though, when a problem does take place. And I am not talking about helping with the deal, but becoming an answer to the problem. Report these loan officers... call their companies...call their managers, regional...  call the BBB, etc etc.  It does work, not over night, but if it builds up, it will have an effect on them. 

                                                                                                          jeff belonger

05/04/2007 10:48 AM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


PS>...  Neal... you made this comment.... I never would see a LO step in and try to help with that part.  How long have you been in real estate?  You never have seen a LO step in?  If that is the case, extremely sad. Not saying that you are a liar. And I know there are a lot out there like this. But I would just love to know the true percentages. When I give examples of how many are bad out there, I always try to make it sound like there are more good.... but how many bad ones are there, verse good ones?  I would soooo love to know this.

                                                                                                              jeff belonger

05/04/2007 10:51 AM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Sorry Randy but.........

Jeff,

Why on earth would you ask me that?

Stop it...I have NEVER EVER EVER HAD THEM WANT TO HELP..ONLY AT THE BEGINNING WHEN THEY CALL ME TO BUTTER ME UP AND THERE IS NO LYING HERE OK!

I HAVE OFFERED TO BUY DINNER FOR ANY ONE OF THEM IF THEY CAN CLOSE ON TIME LET ALONE EARLY...I HAVE YET TO HAVE TO GO TO DINNER.

I HAVE BEEN SELLING RE FOR OVER 11YRS..how long are you in the business...but you are not calling me a liar.

I do not need to justify to anyone how I do business and please don't worry about my business , I do fine myself.

I told you I could count on my fingers how many good ...but not on the bad and i wish you would just stop prodding me on this..you know what the situation is on thid particluar deal and the buyers agent just called me and I really gave them sh-t too so let's just move on and stop baiting me.

This has nothing to do with you and i am sure you are very good at what you do.

05/04/2007 02:48 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Neal.. I have been trying to get a hold of you.  I was making a point.  Did you see my answer after the statement of yours that I repeated?  Thsi shouldn't have gone this far, hence the reason why I tried calling you and wrote to you. You state, why on earth would you ask me this?  It was a question and only a question, because flabbergasted...that's all. Not at you.  You don't need to speak in capital letters to me. Last, I don't think I ever asked you to justify on how you do business to me or to anyone else.

For some reason, several people have been getting hot in here. I didn't even want to write this, but since I haven't heard back, I had to at least say something. That is why I believe in calling people and or writing to them. At least clearing the air and not in here like this. People don't need to see this stuff. Sorry that you felt otherwise. David P. got a little excited in his comments and I see that you made reference to that also.  This doesn't need to be realtors against loan officers. We are all on the same side....at least the good ones.

                                                                                                            jeff belonger

05/04/2007 11:00 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Randy - You deserve a Star for the photo of the "new you" and a star for the post - so hear they are!

05/05/2007 08:38 AM by Tony Marriott, Associate Broker, CRP, CLHMS, CRB, CRS ~~ Phoenix Arizona (Keller Williams Realty Professional Partners)


We already discussed this on the phone so I know it has been addressed.

Thanks

05/05/2007 12:13 PM by Neal Bloom-Realtor ® Assoc.-CRS-Weston FL (RE/MAX Premier Associates)


Neal - I do give a lot of referrals to quality loan officers.  I also am frustrated with the bad ones.

Jeff - The problem with the solutions you gave for a bad loan officer is there is no easy resolution for the public.  If the Realtor messes up we have a process for filing a complaint ands getting resolution.  Calling the BBB really does nothing to help the client at the time or short time after the offense.

I do not want to paint you in the out of state group.  I can honestly say that of all the out of state loans that my clients have done, not one went right.  That is no exaggeration. Not even one.  I am sure it is possible, I juts have never seen one.

Jeff - I have had many occasions where the loan officer stepped in to save a deal or help.  That is why I recommend those particular loan officers.

05/05/2007 03:42 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Neal & Jeff - I think the problem is the good Realtors and loan officers are here debating the bad ones who are too lazy to be here.

Tony - Thank you I feel like a star.

Neal - Glad you guys were able to speak.

05/05/2007 03:47 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


Randy.... I guess the problem that I have, because I have been hearing this answer so often, is that the realtor or borrower don't complain and or report the loan officer. Yes, I agree... it doesn't help during the problem. But believe it or not, it can do some damage down the road... possibly get that loan officer fired from the company, the company fined, etc etc. My overall issue with this is ... people need to start complaining and not to each other. Randy... this is not against you or your comments. This is for everyone to see, even clients. I am not looking for perfection, but when you have a specific issue on hand as you did, this industry (client & realtor) need to make phones calls and complain. No, it will never correct the situation 100%, but it can have an effect on certain people. Possibly cut down these so-called mishaps. This is just my opinion.... but when everyone sits back and say... my complaint won't make a difference. Probably not, but several of the same person, yes it will.

In regards to the out of state labels?  Just something that I have to live with and I have gotten use to. What I don't like about it is when it is talked about as an automatic 100% that it will never happen with out of state lenders.And this has been mentioned by some people and in some debates.  And this is not based on your experience. Just in general and from what so many others have said......  thanks for your time.

05/05/2007 03:54 PM by Jeff Belonger -- The FHA Expert.com -- New Jersey mortgage -- FHA mortgages (Infinity Home Mortgage Company, Inc)


Jeff - It may be different in other states, but we are in the middle of the ocean.  Our contracts and laws are not the same as California for example.  Our closing process is not the same either.  My experience when working with out of state lenders so far has been:

  1. They do not know our contracts or process and don't care.
  2. They tend to pull more bait and switches, then the local guys who depend on my referrals.  If the local guys try it they will never and I mean never hear from me again.
  3. They almost never (in my case never) follow the time line.
  4. Refuse to provide needed documents such as a conditional loan approval, which is required in our purchase contract (DROA), putting the buyers in breach in ever single deal I have had with mainland lenders.
  5. They are not at the signing table leaving the buyer and Realtor to sort out any problems on their own, causing even more delays.
  6. I have yet to have an out of state loan close on time.  Not even one.

I am sure that a good quality loan officer can do a good job from another state, if they were versed in our local contracts, procedures and custom.  My experience has been that just doesn't seem to ever happen here in Hawaii.

The bottom line is we have some really fine high quality professionals in the lending business.  they seem to be able to match any rate the mainland guys quote and they are here, providing consistent quality service.  Why look elsewhere?

On the other hand there are some really bad loan officers here also.  It seems nearly impossible to police them.  If we get rid of one, their spouse or other family members kicks in $200 and gets a license and they are back up and running the next day, doing the same dirty stuff.  We need a better handle on this situation.  We are dealing with the most expensive thing people will ever buy and they deserve to be protected from predatory practices.

05/05/2007 04:10 PM by Randy L. Prothero - Hawaii REALTOR® (Century 21 Liberty Homes)


On this part Randy, I totally agree with you.....Our process is unlike ANY OTHER STATE.  And all the out of state ones that started out of state eventually transferred locally because I recommended to my buyer's to go with a local lender....who knew our laws and contracts!  I also agree that time lines are not important to them nor do they care.  One viable reason we are such sticklers with time lines is that our contract states specifically that if either party ...under any contingency is late etc. the other can back out of the contract.....and of course, I am a stickler for my client's being able to sign with their LO so that the LO can explain the doc's.  The ONE transaction I had with a mainland lender....the escrow officer signed with the client's and did not know what he heck was going on. 

And what was the point here?  Just kidding.

05/05/2007 07:16 PM by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman (RA), Hawaii Real Estate & Hawaii Relocation (Century 21 Liberty Homes -Mililani, Hawaii)


It all boils down to GREED!  The reason we have the situation we are in is simply greed.  And there is enough blame to go around on all sides.

First, mortgage brokers.  With the explosion of the refinance market over the last few years, the number of loan officers across the country has more than doubled.  Many of the people assisting clients to obtain mortgage loans do not know a whole lot more about the product than the client.   A perfect example is the Pay Option ARM (POA).  With this product, the client can "choose" the monthly payment they want to make.  The downside, that the mortgage broker doesn't explain and many don't even know, is that when the loan rises to 110% of the original value, it automatically reverts to a fully amortizing loan, thus raising the customers monthly payment to a level they may not be able to afford.  I have never done a POA for this reason and most likely never will.   Additionally, there are many unscrupulous lenders across the country who couldn't care less about the client; their only goal is to close loans.  Each year I refuse to do 20-30 loans for clients because I know that the loan for which th