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Why Does The Mortgage Industry Cross the Line?

By
Real Estate Technology with BoomTown

Because it can.

 

The number one statement that I get via comments and emails from others in the mortgage industry (paraphrased):

  

"It’s nobody’s business what I make, Wal-Mart etc. doesn’t have to show their mark-ups, why should I??"

 

What a telling statement, as it confirms the general broker/bankers desire to keep valuable information hidden or buried deep in documents.  It also tells me that they don’t understand the laws surrounding the mortgage industry.  A financial services provider, especially one providing and selling mortgage advice and programs, are bound by far different rules than your local Wal-Mart or McDonald’s.  Some of these laws were referenced a recent post, so I’ll spare repeating them.

 

YSP’s always get drug into these discussions, mainly because they are almost always the tool used to create personal enrichment for the brokers/bankers that could be deemed as illegal kickbacks.  When wielded in such fashion, YSP’s are in direct conflict with the potential borrowers interest.  Although Ive stated YSP’s black letter law definition before:

 
Yield Spread Premiums are to be offered as an option to the borrower as a tool to finance some or all of their closing costs.

 

So fellow mortgage peeps, it really is the consumers business what you are making on their transaction, sorry.  Charge what you want, but receiving undisclosed monies from a 3rd party to the transaction is called a ‘kickback’ and illegal according to H.U.D.

 

Well, if this is so, why and how does business still go on like this? 

  • There is alot of ambiguity revolving around YSP’s (good or bad) due to their ‘case by case’ nature.  Determining if they were used properly or as an illegal kickback is a highly subjective process.  This is the #1 reason a bell ringing class-action suit (although tried) hasn’t been successful thus far.  To achieve ‘class’ status requires a common level of generally consistent malpractice.

  • By nature YSP abuse can’t be easily demonstrated under these terms .  It’s also very expensive to sue the bank these days, the economic practicality of engaging a bank in a court of law to get your mortgage rescinded or damages re-paid just isn’t there for most people.  A long discovery process, time draining continuations, depositions, etc equals alot of cash to attorney’s.

 

  • I’ll say this with confidence because I’ve witnessed it first hand:  When a consumer does push the lender to the point they realize they’re not going away, the lender will almost unequivocally settle before the case reaches the courtroom.  There are many cases on record where lenders settle by forgiving the entire debt plus damages.

 

Why don’t the lenders go to court and vindicate themselves once and for all?  They know the chances of being found guilty are high, and most importantly, a precedent setting ruling would create a powder-keg scenario for the lending industry.  No one is willing to roll those dice, the potential repercussions are way too high.

 

So in the end, the mortgage industry continues to play in the Grey simply because it can.  It’s gotten so crazy that brokers/bankers openly believe they’re not governed by special rules and regulations, that their business practices are nobody’s business but their own.   For the most part they’re right, because consumers don’t know enough to keep the cowboys in check.     

 

This leads me to a question for whoever cares to answer it:

 

Why would a wholesale lender not want their rate sheets or pricing schedules shown directly to a consumer?  

 

Many brokers and bankers are quick to reference statements like ‘its illegal’ for them to show consumers a wholesale rate sheet….Where did this come from?

 

 

Comments (11)

Jeff Turner
RealSatisfied - Santa Clarita, CA
Jeff... I know as much about this issue as I do about brain surgery, so I have nothing of value to add at this point. But I want to learn. Unfortunately, until AR let's me watch without commenting, this is the only way to be notified if someone does comment. Very interesting post, Jeff.
May 04, 2007 07:07 AM
Jim Little
Ken Meade Realty - Sun City, AZ
Your Sun City Arizona Realtor

I agree about grey. I had fairly recent experience with the following lender charges to the borrower.

TTHF.. What is this? Oh its a charge we collect on all new loans. What did it mean? Trip to Hawaii Fund.

New Borrower Qualification..What is this? It is to compensate for the additional work getting a new borrower qualified. Did I mention 30% debt to income and 780 FICO?

This is just at the local level. What can we do about the brain surgeons who came up with no doc subprime, option arm, teaser rates etc.?

May 04, 2007 07:35 AM
Jeff Corbett
BoomTown - Charleston, SC

Thx Jeff T...

 

Jim...The Hybrid programs are only bad news when the professional selling them doesn't take the time to explain the details (where the Devil always lies), or the consumer willingly accepts something they don't understand...

May 04, 2007 07:53 AM
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time
Hey Xbroker, Good to see you. Where are all the mortgage guys when we need them? Very interesting
May 04, 2007 08:23 AM
Dennis Serra
Meridian Business Group - Schaumburg, IL

OK, Jeff, why is it every time I open one of your posts I get upset?  I guess I don't want to get categorized as a shark.  I usually have to reread them to calm down.

You are passionate.  You are intelligent.  You may be right.

I don't have a problem showing a rate sheet to a client.  In fact I may enjoy it.  "Here is proof that I am not getting rich off of you."

However, in the agreement between wholesale lender and broker is there a stipulation that a broker can't show the rate sheet?  Will they be in breach of their agreement?

I'm an LO and not a broker so I have never signed the lengthy agreement.  However the following appears on almost every rate sheet;

This information is for business and professional use only and is not to be provided to a consumer or the public.

I think you are starting to win me over to the whole Transparent Transaction Process.

May 04, 2007 08:29 AM
Jeff Corbett
BoomTown - Charleston, SC

Good to 'see' you too BB...make sure you give a wink-wink to TLW for me :)

 

Dennis...There are alot of fish in the 'mortgage pond', some are sharks, you are not...You're willingness to engage here is testimony to that ;)

Do you have any thoughts on why wholesale lenders put such provisions out there?  I have my thoughts, but I'm looking for other qualified professionals to weigh in with their opinions....   

May 04, 2007 08:36 AM
Dennis Serra
Meridian Business Group - Schaumburg, IL

I would be curious to hear your thoughts on this.

One reason that came to mind; they do not want their retail divisions to see them.  

We have done loans for bank employees because the retail division of their bank was more expensive and couldn't get the rate we could provide.  Mind you they did receive an "employee" discount and it did not help.

May 04, 2007 08:56 AM
Dennis Serra
Meridian Business Group - Schaumburg, IL

Also, I believe the 0-5% disclosure is looked at as a non-disclosure.  We are required, at least in Illinois, to disclose the dollar amount of the YSP.  On the initial papers and at closing.

May 04, 2007 08:58 AM
Anonymous
Anonymous

Jeff

I agree with you to a point.  Yes, it can be abused, but that is why people are supposed to shop around.  It is hard to abuse a premium if the borrower is shopping diligently.  YSP is simply a profit a margin and I don't understand why everyone makes such a big deal about it.  YSP marks up the WHOLESALE rate.  No other business discloses what their markups are, so why should lenders?  The Wal-Mart analogy seems logical to me.  At the end of the day, why does anyone care what we make on a deal as long as the consumer is getting a fair and competitive rate?  So what if I make 3 points on a loan, but the borrower gets the lowest rate offered by any of the other lenders they contacted and is happy with my services?  The bottomline is that you can't over charge if consumer even remotely comparison shops. 

I operate my practice on an upfront basis, but the vast majority of my clients simply don't care.  At the end of the day they want to know rate and cost relative to the market place.  Nothing more.  I also don't overchage and have never felt a need to hide what I am making.  My rule of thumb is if I am embarrassed about my compensation, then I am charging too much.  However, I don't understand why everyone expects brokers would work for free?

YSP disclosure came about because the banks were trying to make brokers seem less competitive.  Nothing more.  The FTC even studied this and showed that when YSP is disclosed to consumers, all it does is confuse them and make them pick the costlier loan from a mortgage bank that didn't have to disclose.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/2004/01/030123mortgagefullrpt.pdf

True, the law says brokers are supposed to disclose and most do not do it properly, but just because it is law does not mean it makes sense and I think that is what gets broker upset the most.  By the way, I say this as a banker who doesn't have to disclose.

Russ

www.smartmortgageadvice.com

May 04, 2007 11:05 AM
#9
Jeff Corbett
BoomTown - Charleston, SC

Russ...

Couple of quick points:

  • YSP is not a profit margin (See Definition), and attention to 'them' came about upon the passing of Regulation X, prohibiting 3rd party kickbacks in a mortgage transaction....depending on how YSP's are offered/applied/disclosed, determines if they are a financing tool or a kickback.
  • The FTC report clearly demonstrates that Banker non-disclosure rights confuse consumers and cause them to routinely choose the more expensive mortgage.  If this is true, then comparison shoppers are comparing (sour) apples to oranges.  This report concludes that a consistent and open standard should be created for all mortgage professionals to follow, including (especially) bankers.  
  • I don't think anyone expects brokers (or bankers) to work for free...No Closing Cost and other deceptive marketing fosters this mindset.

All mortgage professionals should actually read the Truth in Lending Act.  It amazes me how little those who serve in the industry truly understand it, as well as the repercussions for violating it.  

 

Jeff

TheXBroker.com

May 04, 2007 12:24 PM
Anonymous
Russ

We can call it a kickback, financing tool or whatever.  It is still how brokers are able to stay in business which at the end of the day makes it a profit margin.  Legal definitons and how things really work are often times not compatible which is why when politicians and attorneys start meddling in things they don't understand all hell breaks loose.  Just like you posted about the flaws of APRs, we have to give our clients TILs which for the most part are a waste of paper, along with GFEs.

I agree that if brokers are required to disclose YSP, banks should have to disclose SRP.  The same professors who conducted the FTC study also believe that less disclosure would better because over disclosure tends to confuse consumers more.  Again, most consumers could care less.  All that matters at the end of the day is rate and cost.  How we get there is irrelevant.  Nearly 90% of my client base have MBA's from top business schools and believe me when I tell you that they have got to be the most fervent rate shoppers I have ever seen.  Very educated borrowers.  Almost all of them get confused when we start talking about rate sheets, ysp, rate hits, rate sheets, and all the other industry jargon we throw around.

I just don't see why it matters and why the focus on it.   If one broker offers 6% to a client and makes $5000k in YSP and another bank offers 6.25% and only makes $2000, do you think the client cares that the guy with the higher rate was also making less money?  No.  They know they got 6% and could careless what the "kickback" is in the deal.

A lot of the abuse that you write about could be prevented by simply raising the standards of becoming an LO.  It is way to easy to call yourself a Sr. Loan Officer with .5 hour of training a GED.  Completely ridiculous that this business deals with the largest financial purchase of most people's lives and a college degree isn't even required, much less any kind of real training and serious licensing/testing.  This is the reason we have so many sheisters in the business.  There is  a lot of money to made with extremely low barriers to entry.

 

 

May 04, 2007 02:51 PM
#11