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When EXACTLY is enough, enough?

Stop the bailtout insanity! The news de jour today is that the US Senate is voting on yet another proposed economic stimulus package. Well, pardon me if I don't break out my pom-pom's and kazoo and shout hallelujah. I actually feel more like sitting on the curb, putting my head in my hands and saying a prayer the Capitol will suddenly fall into a giant sinkhole never to be seen again.

When do we say enough is enough?

"The stimulus package the U.S. Congress is completing would raise the government’s commitment to solving the financial crisis to $9.7 trillion, enough to pay off more than 90 percent of the nation’s home mortgages..." from Bloomberg this morning.

$9.7 trillion! Enough to pay off more than 90% of the nations home mortgages?! Give me a break! We've already thrown countless trillions down the drain and yet we're no better off than we were before the first nickle was spent... some would say we're in worse shape.

We're borrowing against my grandchildrens generation... and at this rate their grandchildrens generation, to pay for a bill that will do NOTHING to stem the financial crisis.

It all began with housing and any recovery efforts need to be laser focused on housing. We can not and will not fix the financial crisis until the HOUSING crisis is addressed...

In the meantime our fearless leaders are focused on growing the size of the federal government and spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave. Forget giving the money and incentives to small businesses... you know, those folks who are the actual economic engine of this country.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help" Yea, that's should work.

Posted by Fairbanks Alaska Real Estate Specialists Jesse & Kathy Clifton 907-699-6024 on 02/09/2009 06:33 PM

Comments (107)

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107 Comments on When EXACTLY is enough, enough?

FEB

When it comes to uncle Sugar enough is never enough when it comes to "our" money.

Morons!!!!

A trillion here and a trillion there, after a period of time it does start to add up.

I think I'll go throw up...

When I watch what they're doing it makes me ill.

I may have to sit on the curb with you before all this is over with.

Very true, and it is just unbelievable.

Jesse, It's all foolish isn't it? These numbers just boggle my mind. Yet folks are still losing their houses, their jobs and their minds!!!!

Jesse, I have written my Senator ( have received no reply) have written my congressman and you should see the canned reply I received.

I just shake my head. I might just move to Alaska - oh oops I forgot that is part of the US :)

That's how government works. Most of these items were things that never could get passed in normal times. So they just wait for a "crisis" and then sneak it in under another name. It's no longer spending, it's now stimulating the economy.

Politicians just can't help themselves. It's their nature to spend as much as possible and to build bigger and bigger bureaucracies so they have more and more power.

What little good they might do in a few instances, is couteracted by all the muck they create. That's why I'd rather they just do nothing.

The numbers just boggle the mind. Do we have enough ink to print all this money?

Unfortunately I think we all knew the writing was on the wall in terms of Government spending. It's beyond frustrating and I feel as though I survived the car accident, I know find myself landed squarely on the tracks w/ the train coming at full speed. There's no easy solution to it but buying a new fleet of Government cars, converting from analog to digital TV and some of this other BS they have padded into the program under the guise of "stimulus" should be eliminated completely!

I don't know the new numbers exactly, but I heard last week that something along the lines of .12 on the dollar of the House bill was slated actually for stimulus. GIMME A BREAK!

Jesse,

Talk about misguided!!! Put 12 mothers in a room by themselves, give them about 200 billion dollars and they'll solve all our problems!!! Thanks, Fran

Only in America, do we set about trying to prove Darwin was wrong in his "Survival of the Fittest" theory. In this country we reward the weakest, the stupidest, and the expense of the strongest.

I think a lot of folks are holding their noses on these bailouts of Wall Street, especially the fact that no stipulations or strings were attached. Had this been handled properly, the taxpayers stood a good chance of being paid back one day, like when we bailed out Chrysler a generation ago. However, with the structure of these latest fiascos, I think we have a snowball's chance in Hell.

Unfortunately we are on a fast track towards European style socialism. I want off!

Jesse, Let's all meet at the curb and sit there together....but not your curb. Too damn cold. Pick a curb in the south and I'll meet you there. Huntsville has several nice ones! LOL.

The entire "bail out" garbage gives me a headache, it really does. blah

Jesse - I agree with you that they really need to be laser-focused on fixing the housing crisis. In particular, they probably need to stop penalizing the self-employed and those who don't have a lot of cash sitting around, but who are worthy risks nonetheless.

Jesse, I'm sitting here right now trying to watch the Obama press conference and I'm wanting to throw something at the TV! He's angry, blaming Republicans for not being bi-partisan and frankly is scaring me as to how he's going to lead these next 4 years!

It certainly is a huge problem. I am glad that the "Fix Housing First" made headway in the Senate with the tax credit to ALL (should have been higher) as well as lower mortgage rates. I think tax cuts would have been much better overall versus additional spending ... a lot of which is "pork". Time will tell !!!

Just imagine how fast the economy would have turned around if the Gov't gave an equal amount to every homeowner to put toward paying down/off their mortgage and that same amount to others that own a home free and clear to use to pay down their debt instead of throwing it away to "help" the banks, Wall Street, etc.

Alan Spector and Christina ( don't have her last name) are the only republicans voting for the bill and will make it pass. If you want to stop this bill you need to e-mail them or call them and say no. If you are in a Democratic state call your reps maybe it will change a few minds. I have been calling Dems for the last week and I know it probably won't do any good but I am trying to do my part.

I agree that's a problem but what you said gave me an idea. Since we can't trust business to take government money and free up loans to consumers instead of using it for executive bonus, I vote if it passes that the money be used to pay off everyone's mortgage and individually, each consumer will jump start the economy. Just my two cents....

As one of the few people who disagree with your post, I expect that many of you will not agree with what I am about to say. First off, I do not hope that our Capital fails and I think it is a shame that anyone who lives in this country and benefits from the freedom this country provides would be so ungrateful as to root for its downfall. Second, it appears that you are a Real Estate Professional and unless you are delusional you already know that many real estate agents and organizations are to blame for the housing crisis, as the greed and manipulation tactics led to the current state of this economy. Although you are not fully to blame, the tactics used in recent years were not only unprecedented, they were shameful. How many times did you - or anyone responding to or reading this blog - use the 'monthly payment' sales tactic to entice buyers to purchase your properties??? Funny, I bet you wouldn't be upset with the stimulus proposal if you were effected by the housing crisis - outside of not being able to make money off of fools anymore, of course.

This blog is why people hate Realtors.

ANGRY CONSUMER

I wish someone knew the answer and could fix our economic crisis. I don't think borrowing trillion of dollars will help anyone.

By the way, Kathy, as you are a resident of Alaska who does not pay state sales tax or individual income tax on any type of personal income (earned or unearned) - and lives in a state that is expected to receive over 8 billion dollars in federal tax money to hand out to people just for living there - your opinion on how tax money is spent is laughable to the real citizens of this country. Whenever you pay more in taxes than you receive the rest of us will actually care what you have to say in terms of how that money is spent.

Borrowing trillions will only create a different problem, not fix the problems. We're in way over our heads already. Why exacerbate the problem? If the money is not going to be used to correct things where it's broken, then why bother. I'm with you there!

Jesse. I hate to disagree with you, but Housing isn't where it all started. It started with saving. We have become a debtor nation and until we start carrying a positive balance on our sheet... it won't be fixed.

Obviously that means that I think the "stimulus" package won't work. On that we agree.

Do you think one of these bailouts might work? If not I think we should just let the market topple and try to pick up the peices - we are simply weakening ourselves as a nation by over extending our selves. We alraedy owe money to China - who next?

Jesse...

The government's solution is to always throw money at the problem ... just wait until the next round of inflation hits ...wow.

Congrats on the feature!

Brian,

Had you rather see George Bush speaking on your t.v.? You know what!! President Obama inherited the biggest mess that any President in History has ever made. Look at the last 6 months!!

Did you want to throw something at your T.V. when Bush signed his bailout with absolutly NO stipulations as to how the money was to be used??

It is "shameful" that all that money was given and none was used to help main street.

So why do we need another Stimulus Package? Think about how the first one was used.

Jeanette Hemmer, Re/Max Plus, Clarksville, Ar

Well, I am glad to read that FINALLY everybody seems to be concerned about the size of the national debt. I was wondering where all our dollars & senses had gone the past several years.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know it's NOT what they're doing.

Sorry guys...you lost the election. Now its our turn. The stimulus is needed BECAUSE of the free market cowboy mentality that got us into this mess I'm no advocate of social Darwinism as all here well know. Obama is doing a great job - the republicans need to recognize that they LOST the election...and that trotting out the same tired tax cuts that got us into this disaster is the worst possible thing that could be done. We wouldn't NEED a stimulus package if the previous administration and the republican clowns in the House and Senate hadn't been in bed with financial sector busily trying to create a plutocracy.

If the same tone continues in Congress, Obama may have to GIVE UP on bipartisanism and just start ramming stuff through. Radical policy changes are essential given the seriousness of the situation. We need to swing the doors open to JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!!! Ones that actually PAY. Far too many Americans with excellent educations and fine work ethics were not only marginalized but destroyed by the previous administration.

As far as housing goes - I agree, but the housing package is coming next and will address putting a floor under housing.

Jesse, more money continuing to be thrown into the wind. When will it end?

Spending money increases government growth and tax cuts increases job and economic growth. I know better what to do with my own money than the government does. If there was an exit strategy to the amount of government programs being created to put this plan into action it would make a lot more sense... but it's just another black hole of government has created to suck up our hard earned tax money!

I agree but I must disagree with reference to drunken sailors on shore leave. Twenty years in the Navy and I never spent more than I had!

What I find interesting about this whole stimulus package thing is where these ideas of borrowing to start the economy comes from.. What I mean here is that all those great economic minds that are there or easily available to problem solve this issue all they could come up with was to was have everyone win the lottery at our grand children's cost. Could they have come up with some kind of controls on spending and ways to jump start jobs and American market? Just amazes me that we don't have good problem solving and planning going on.

Just can't spend your way out of debt. It doesn't matter how many zero's are at the end.

A famous quote I remember. the definition of Insanity is to keep doing something over & over expecting a different result

I don't get it either....HOW ON EARTH WILL THAT MUCH MONEY EVER GET REPAID....what are they doing? just printing more and more money?

I have been saying this all along. If they would concentrate on the housing debacle, the rest of this mess would fall in line. Great post.

Sooo....the RIGHT answer is what again ?
So easy to be critical when you hear no other "answers"

Jesse, the new administration is now learning the drawbacks of the position. Can't get a darned thing done. Too many cooks in the kitchen. The meal is already ruined. Thanks for the vent. Thanks for letting me vent.

lava, Deb

WoW Jesse... that is a HUGE amount of money.. and you said 90%.. that is amazing

Jesse - Groucho Marx said it best: "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."

I don't know if it's true, but today I heard that the current package includes a plan to use additional money to create a bureaucracy to make all Americans medical records federalized. How does that help?

FEB

I am praying for our leaders as they make huge decisions that will affect our economy for years to come. May they use short and long term wisdom in all that they do.

With respect:

1) We've tried 30 years of Reagan-trickle-down economics (voodoo economics). It has worked out well for the top 5% of the population that controls 90% of the wealth. As one of our learned AR friends pointed out: when you're winning, capitalism is a great system. Tonight, President Obama was spot on when he pointed out that it was the failed policies of the last administration (and the philosophy behind it) that brought us to this precipice.

2) SPENDING = Economic vibrancy TAX CUTS = Free ride for the wealthy It's amazing to me that real estate agents (who should have at least a modicum of economic understanding) don't get the simple fact that if your broker got a tax break, he/she would pocket that benefit. It would not translate into more economic activity at your brokerage. We need to spend our way out of this trouble!

3) You're all under the illusion that "government spending" is inherently bad. That's just plain baloney. The very head of the RNC is quoted as saying that government jobs aren't "real" jobs. I have some news for you all my friends. My wife works for the University of Washington. She works as hard as any of you or anyone else in private business. Her budgets are so tight, it would make your head spin. The work she does helps ensure that there will be educated people alive to pay for your Social Security (since non of you have a retirement fund any longer).

4) Finally, I don't hear a lot of outrage from conservatives about the Trillion-dollar-Halliburton-private-contractor-mercenary-build-bridges-roads-and-schools-in-another-country stimulus program called the War in Iraq. Even after it was obvious that we were all lied to about the war, I didn't hear many people complaining that Uncle Sam was robbing us of "our" tax dollars.

We are living in interesting times. It's time to talk about these issues as adults, not spoiled children.

The check is in the mail. What? Oh, yes of course I'll still respect you in the morning.

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help" - You said it all right there,LOL! Take care and happy blogging!

Let's all pray that Congess does the right thing.

it should be an interesting next few years

Jesse, I could not agree with you more. We would be better off if the government gave us the money so we could stimulate the economy, but the folks on Capitol hill are so narrowminded that they could look through a keyhole with both eyes...

Where is my bail out money?

No I am not happy with the amount of money being spent. Nor was I happy with the concentration of wealth that occur over the past 8 years, because of greed and the lack of integrity by both our public officials and the private sector. We need to support the country and trim the fat off the stimulus package by encouraging our lawmakers to do so. Doing nothing or just giving tax breaks is what got us here.

Remember the first allocation of TARP money was to buy bad debt. Remember why that wasn't the case, one sentence in the bill, added at the insistence of the Bush administration, required that executive-pay provisions apply only to firms that hold troubled assets to the government in auctions. But the Treasury Department has switched strategies since then, instead making direct investments in financial institutions. The Treasury department switched strategies prior to Obahma taking office, and what happened, 18 BILLION in bonuses!

So Be positive, if you don't like what is going on, suggest to your law makers to offer up alternatives. To just say no does nothing and to road block any attempt to help fix this nation is just down right UN-American.

I really like Frans comment. I believe that could work!!

I would rather that the media just stop reporting all of this until they know its a done deal or even show results. Waste of peoples reading time.

I am going to be busy planting a garden this weekend, at least we will have some veggies to eat ... I advise everyone to ask their moms and dads or grandmas and grandpas how they survived after WWII, home gardens, money was tight, savings became a hafta, before credit began its rampant run on our economy and spoiled so many of us. ... we all need to relearn some of the survival skills of the old days because the Government has/is going to spend all the dollars we don't have.

I remember inflation of the Carter Years, it was bad and got awful, interest to buy a home rose to 16% in my area. I fear its just around the corner waiting for all this spending to get done and its rearing its head peeking over the fence now.

Jesse, my love, I care to much for you to disagree publicly. I think that the president is doing what he can for a bad situation, inherited from many past administrations, to be fair to the last one (grudgingly). There are no easy answers but surely doing nothing isn't the answer either. I am not nearly smart enough nor do I know enough about any of the problems to say what should be done. I'm going to have to wait and see how the president's plan works out. As for Ryan above, I'd like to say that it was not the real estate industry that lent money to people who couldn't afford to pay it back. It wasn't the real estate industry that encouraged consumers to apply for loans that perhaps weren't in their best interest. Angry consumers should look to other culprits to blame for the mess we are in. Not the real estate industry, which is a service industry with many good people who look to help, not hurt the public. Realtors rely on the banking industry to guide us as to which product is best for a client and how much they can afford to borrow.

I was listening to O'Reilly last night and Dick Morris said - in response to Obama's statement about Japan's lost decade - that Japan spent 4 times as much to try to solve their economic issues, but the spending never helped. Only time was what solved the problem. I feel horribly knowing my children will not be better off then me, and I do not believe that my husband and I are doing better than my parents did. The burden is shifting forward to generations and it's an awful feeling. I have called my Sentators but the pressure they are under is enormous.

Jesse - Agreed. The people we elect seem to lose their good sense and common sense once they get to Washington! To answer Susan's disagreement in the previous post, the Congress has been on a spending spree through many administrations so pointing the finger is neither a reason nor an excuse. Susan - why is it important to you who to blame? I'm sure we'll here plenty of that in the future. As far as I am concerned, our Congress has spent its time having hearings over the drug habits of professional athletes rather than dealing with the economy - for many years. And how ridiculous of our representatives to think that everyone should own a home and that everyone should be able to handle a mortgage - of course, a mortgage for which they can't qualify! The sub-prime legislation enacted by our wonderful Congress started this mess. Our previous president vetoed Congressional spending more than once to no avail! Then he, too, decided 'to build his legacy' by jumping on the spending train as proposed by Congress. I suppose he wanted to be liked more than he wanted to stand up for what he said he believed when we elected him. We cannot spend ourselves out of this situation now by merely printing new money. Someone has to address the 'pork' in any spending legislation. I say the entire city needs to fall in the hole because I haven't seen much competence coming out of Washington in a long time! Meanwhile, our new president is reading books to children and his cabinets is made up of tax frauds and others of less integrity. And he has those lobbyists that he would never appoint to positions all over the place! There, I said it!!!

Mary

I am with you. Instead of turning on the news I just say a prayer.

An economic crisis is just a piece of life. It's good? That's life. It's bad? That's life. Ford might be bankrupt? So let it be, that's life. No need to bail out for new private jet or parties. Another guy will take over, with better products or better management...That's just life...The ones misfortune is others happiness...

I totally agree that it can't possibly make a dent in this mess, however, I wonder, will any of us send the rebate checks back if we, in fact, get them? I personally will put it in my emergency fund- no way will I got out and buy anything! I keep saying and have said for years, if we were a country of savers rather than happy spenders, when times got tough, people could have made their payments at least for a few months...

Sometimes all we can do is pray our leaders will make wise decisions in the future and do the best we can in our own backyard. Hopefully, the "bailouts" will be stopped soon. I read an article stating the current bailout is costing an average of $9700 per taxpayer.

Mary, I wasn't blaming anyone. I was pointing out to Ryan, the angry consumer who commented earlier, who is blaming Realtors for the state of the economy, that we are not to blame and that he should look around to others if he feels like he needs to blame.

Hi Jesse. I should have known better than to comment on a political post. I still love you.

It will never be enough, they are going to throw spaghetti at a wall till some of it sticks. We won't have a World War to bring us out like WWII.

Jesse and Kathy,

Put this way ("90% of homes could be paid off") is just infuriating!!!! I really wish you'd open this up to be re-blogged. You've got good stuff here!!!! Keep up the good work.

Maryellen

WOW. My husband and I were discussing this this morning. Here's the math we did. The vote today is for a $800 billion bailout. Divide that by the 304 million people in the US (not taxpayers - people) - that equals about $2400 per person. It's costing us - individually - my 2 kids included - $2400 each. My family is now out that amount times 4 = just over $10,000. We want our $10,000! Blech.

It's totally appalling! However, it's perfectly in sync. with "Me First" generation's mentality. The sense of entitlement has no bounds...except that what they don't realize is that someone pays (us taxpayers, children, grand children, and on and on). Last time I checked, the Law of Conservation of Energy still stands: You can't create something out of nothing. Our Fed. govt. certainly can't produce all that money required for stimulus packages out of thin air (in their case, out of hot air.)

Once they get that money faucet turned on it's pretty hard to turn it off.

Weren't all of you happy when idiots were buying houses? You didn't question the lending process. Who did the selling? None of you? You make the bed, you sleep in it. Everyone who participated in getting us here is to blame, including those who turned a blind eye and now claim innocence.

Eisnehower warned us. The early forefathers warned us. But when the money's rolling in who cares to look at the inconsistencies?

The war machine. The cheap labor imported. Businesses exported. Cry-baby multi-national corporations who own each and every one of you. Time to dance to the tune, the piper is calling. All that borrowed money over the decades will be coming home to roost.

Another world war to get us out? That is a historical fact over the centuries. Sad but true. What else can you do with millions of unemployed adults? Think about the ramifications. A good religious angle is all that's needed to get everyone behind it. Sad, sad, sad.

Capitalism works in cycles. If you like it, then you must like it during all cycles. Please hang in there. All your anger will not change one thing. So save your energy and be more innovative. Most houses won't sell if you tried to give them away for 1/2 price. The banks will gladly take them, contrary to popular belief. They rule. Always did. You're allowed to get only so far, and then they need to cash in their chips.

It's a game in real life. Being fair is not a given. It's a taken.

Realist and Anthropologist.

Cameron - Isn't that the truth!

Richard - What's a few trillion between politicians?

Linda - It makes me nauseous as well.

JL - They keep this up we might all end up on the curb.

Missy - They've guaranteed/spent enough to pay off nearly every mortgage in the country and we're still in this mess? A CEO with that track record would have been fired... or offered a $50MM Gulfstream. :)

Bryant - All the money they're blowing and folks are still losing their homes. That is just criminal.

Jo - Good for you... I have written and called our delegation repeatedly... they're listening... except for the newly minted Democrat Senator... he's towing the party line.

Tim - You're right on. They would never get most of this junk passed during a regular session so they ram it down our throats during a 'crisis'.   I would prefer they not do anything to this mess.

Lynn - That is a very good question. Maybe we can buy some from China. :)

Colleen - 12 cents? That's about what I think the buffoons on the Hill are worth. :)

Fran - You're right about that!

Myrl - In this country we reward the weakest, the stupidest, and the expense of the strongest. I really don't think I can add anything to that comment. haha

Team Knowles - It certainly looks that way.

Elizabeth - haha... it's above zero today for goodness sake. Only 1 degree above, but hey, it's above. :)

Jason - A more realistic risk model would certainly be helpful.

Brian & Marie - He is coming off as a bitter little snippet isn't he? Not very attractive to say the least.

Christopher & Stephanie - I agree... drop the government sponsored spending spree and turn the money, guarantees, tax cuts and credits to small business and watch how fast this country will grow.

Roger - We're to the point where the government could have just paid off nearly every mortgage in the country for what we've spent. Instead they going to blow the money and we'll still in this mess.

Charles - We have made our opinions known to not only our congressional delegation, but to the leadership and several left-leaning Senators.

Connie - That's as good an idea as any of the folks on the Hill have come up with.

Ryan - You misread my post. I don't hope the Capital fails... I said, somewhat in jest, that I'm to the point of hoping the building and its occupants disappear. A good many of the men and women inside that building are directly responsible for our current economic woes.

Blaming real estate agents for the housing disaster is akin to blaming Mossberg because some fellow took his life with a shotgun. We do agree on one thing though... greed was rampant.

Cindy - There are fixes for the economy... the challenge is getting Americans to put Country over self.

Ryan - Real citizens? haha... funny. Alaska has no state sales tax, we have no state income tax and yet we have a constitutional budget reserve (state savings account) with a $2.6 billion balance and $37 billion in our permanent fund. No taxes, small government, individual freedoms. Hmmm... Seems to me the rest of the country should be following our lead.

Lora - I would prefer they do nothing to throwing good money after bad.

Lane - You do have a point... the average savings balance has been dwindling to nada for a while.

Bridget - I think a bailout could work... a very targeted bill free from 'payback spending' that addresses the root of the problem. Spending $30 million to remodel, what was it.. the treasury building, is just not the answer.

Richard - I agree... and with the current leadership we're in for another wild ride. Why am I having flashbacks of Mr. Peanut?

Jeanette - I can't speak for Brian but I was disgusted at the Wall street bailout. It was terrible legislation and the implementation was just amateurish.

Mike - It was beginning to look like sense was going the way of the dodo bird.

Margaret - I can't claim to have the solution but throwing the baby out with the bath water hardly seems appropriate.

Ruthmarie - I couldn't disagree more. I know, I know. You're stunned, right? haha. Look, I was no raving fan of many of Bush 43's domestic policies but the fact is the recession is hardly his fault. Trace the source of the housing meltdown to its source and you'll find Clinton and his cronies. "Open the housing market to all... give 'em all a loan, even if they're a high default risk." The unintended consequence was that it snowballed... but no one was complaining when folks were taking advantage of the have-a-pulse-get-a-loan era. Only when the free market reacted to too much risk did we we hear folks start to whine.   It's life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. There's no mention of a 'guaranteed return' in any of the founding documents.

I do agree that creating jobs is vital. I just know that it's not the governments role (or area of expertise) to create those jobs. That little experiment failed miserably under FDR... and if implemented, will fail miserably under Obama.

Gary - I have to wonder the same thing my friend. I suppose the answer is when the presses finally melt...

Julie - 'I know better what to do with my own money than the government does.' My thoughts exactly.

Gary - LOL. My old man would say the same thing, Gary.

Stan - The problem is that too many Americans put self over country... sacrifice is a word that has seemingly been eradicated from the American vernacular.

Sharon & Greg - Agreed. Paying my AMEX bill with a transfer check from my Visa account only serves to increases the debt... not eliminate it.

Pat - No, they're just hoping to defer the problem to another time and place so as to avoid having to make hard choices.

Karen - Yes, it would. (thanks!)

Sally & David - The problem isn't a lack of ideas... but a lack of leadership.

Deb - I lava your venting! :)

Roland - It is an incredible amount of money.

George - Smart fellow that Groucho.

Christine - You read that correctly.

JB - That makes two of us.

James - George Bush, for all his faults, did not create this mess. In my opinion it wasn't handled as deftly as possible but he's hardly the root cause. Think Clinton's Community Reinvestment Act. I'll give Clinton the benefit of the doubt here and say that what started as a noble cause to increase home ownership became an avenue to lax lending practices across the board.

As for Government spending... I'll agree that not all Gov't spending is bad. However, THIS Govt's spending is ludricous. The proponents of this plan seem to think that the bloated, inefficient, slow moving, beurecratic black hole that is the Congress can spend our tax dollars better than the average American. That has never been the case... your own example of the defense contract awards prove that... and Who was it that just came out and said "we" vastly overpaid for the securities we bought last year?

Doreen - haha. You crack me up!

Jason - Thank you sir.

Randy - That's my hope.

Randall - You aren't whistling Dixie there.

Michael - LOL. Agreed.

Eileen - See Doreen's comment above. :)

John & Karen - I agree with you... we are all in this together. The folks in Washington are there to represent us... if we don't make our voices heard, then we only have ourselves to blame.

Dorie - I'm sure it would work!

Neal - Shut the media up. Now there's a novel idea.

Gail - That's the other side of the coin, isn't it? If you want to dance you'll have to pay the band... and that day is going to sting. I well remember the Carter era... and not fondly I might add.

Susan Darlin' - You are many things my dear... and fair is certainly one of them. I may disagree with Obama on occasion as I have done with nearly every occupant of the White House but I do so in the interest of bettering your/my/our country. :)

Christine - I think you're in the position a great many American's are in... and not necessarily of their own doing. Many of our fellow citizens took enormous financial risks and when they came up short, it affected us all.

Mary - If we're looking to assign blame, there's plenty to go around. The challenge now is to craft legislation that will actually get us out of this mess... and I'm of the opinion the current stimulus is far from the answer. The idea that everyone should be afforded a mortgage is absurd. The relaxed lending requirements that began under the CRA certainly opened a can of worms.

Mel - Smart lady!

Claude - Some companies will succeed and some will falter based on their management. If the leadership is so poor they become insolvent... let it be. As has been seen before a new name will rise up to replace the old. Packard, Edsel, Oldsmobile, etc. The companies disappeared from the landscape and yet there are millions of cars on the road.

Danell - I would say a great many will keep the money... and a fair amount of those will be headed to the local electronics superstore to buy the latest and greatest gadgets their little checks will buy.

Laura - We can pray for them... but we can also make our voices heard.

Susan Darlin' - You are a first rate political post commenter. ;)   I still love you too! haha

Michael - Agreed. We don't have the manufacturing base we did then. What will be the economic engine that propels us forward this time?

Kevin & Maryellen - Consider it done... reblog away.

Kim - It's staggering, isn't it? The worst part is the $10,000 is for just THIS bailout. Yikes.

Lydia - That's about the best comment I've seen. Me First was a problem and remains a problem.

Jim - Isn't that the truth? I'm beginning to think they broke the handle.

RM - I know a great many folks who questioned the lending process during the past few years. You are correct though in that that free flowing money will make some people look the other way. I think capitalism works perfectly well. The issue here is no one wants to allow the down cycle to happen. This is a broad brush comment so bear with me, but the past few years have been like a run at the blackjack table. Times were good and folks were willing to assume more and more risk, incorrectly thinking the good times would never end. Some lost and lost big, but not everyone was so foolish. You can bet those folks who lost big won't be so quick to let greed blind them the next time we cycle up.

Good post. It is totally appalling, and I feel sorry for the generations to come.

Jesse,

Super post! It is a scary time we are living in but we will all get through it.

Right now I'm focusing on my business, developing it and trying to be emotionally unconnected with the news that comes out.

Enuf is Enuf! Where do you want to start the tea party???? It isn't the Dems or the Reps that caused this problem. It isn't the last 2 years or 4 years or 8 years - it's been coming a long long time!

How did Washington get to be the way it is? How did all the pork and earmarks get going? I'd sure love to know how things were un about 75 years ago....

Jesse - Thanks for your response. If you feel like curling up with an important book (during your LONG Alaska Winter) I highly recommend Matt Miller's "The Tyranny of Dead Ideas." It's not particularly partisan (as you can tell I'm a leftie) but I'm afraid we Americans are all talking past ourselves about some of the core challenges.

Unfortunately, taxes will have to go up, not down. This is not merely due to the financial markets. It has to do with years of trickle-down economics during which we, the people, allowed our infrastructure fall into disrepair (recently it was estimated that we have 2.2 Trillion of necessary infrastructural work to do in the U.S.) If free market capitalsim works so well, where are the lions of industry on this? Padding their own off-shore accounts and taking multi-million bonuses for jobs not-well-done.

A quick note to those of you who put a price tag on the stimulus package: welcome to the real world. There is no free lunch. I'm afraid Americans have been indulging themselves in the fantasy that growth is inevitable. We are in a down cycle and economic contraction right now. Many of the policies of the last 40 years neglected investments in our schools, infrastructure, and (oh my) in making government work well. Now, people want to whine about it.

Finally, (I know you want me to stop), in spite of all the talk about "innovation and enterprise" in this country, we literally wasted three decades by failing to invest in alternative energy technology, by allowing American businesses to outsource jobs without creating work for our own citizens and by letting our schools fall into mediocrity. May I humbly suggest that the discussion be shifted to a constructive conversation on how we will actually spend the money for this stimulus WELL and be vigilant. After all, we owe it to ourselves.

I am not surprised at the strong reaction from real estate professionals. Most of us believe in our own ability and obligation to succeed and do not expect others to take care of us.

As to the Angry Consumer Ryan, it was the insistence of our leaders since Carter's days in having every individual own a home, regardless of his credit or capability to pay for it. They forced banks to change their approval systems and this led to the down fall of the housing market. The "good intention" of both parties produced these obvious results. Home ownership is not an entitlement.

Unfortunately, our leaders are heading the entitlement way again and many individuals who have never lived in a place where the government owns and dictates every thing do not know what they are wishing for.

James from Seattle, do you really believe that once the money is authorized we have a say?

Here is to better days for all of us!!!

Jesse and Kathy- Thank you. I will be re-blogging as soon as I hit enter.

James Lupori - I agree with MANY things you are saying, but not all. Just because someone is silent on the issue of the war and how Bush botched it, doesn't mean we are in support of "this" and against "that." It's not black and white, my friend.

For the record, I hate this war and am ashamed of what it has done to our nation and its reputation - including the HUGE tax liability it will pass on to future generations (and, anyone who knows me well, knows well enough that I have held this belief for a LONG time). IMHO, it has been a complete waste of financial resources, and the lives of our service men and women.

However, I have to agree with Jesse and Kathy on this one. Since our government couldn't get it right with the first one, I think they'd be better off paying off those 90% of homes and letting the PEOPLE use (what would have been their mortgage payment) to stimulate their local economy - and, history has proven, that there's no better way to stimulate the national economy than by first starting at home. And, to top it off, we fix the housing market at the same time - win-win if you ask me.

Again, I agree with many things you have expressed here, but just hope you understand that it isn't black and white. Our issues are more complicated than that.

With respects...Maryellen

Hi Jesse & Kathy -- I'm torn about what should be done now, as there are many top experts (term used loosely) who think something massive needs to be done. On the other hand, I have little faith in both houses of congress that they actually care about the little guy and can do the right thing without letting ideology take over.

I'm not sure even trying to spend 30b on housing without massive job stabilization for a long period of time will have much of an impact outside of a short-term boost.

Jesse, where is this money coming from? It's artifial debt because there's really no money behind it! Very scary. Debt being invented to pay more debt. What a downhill spiral... Where's it going to end?

Join my new AR group and post your blog at http://activerain.com/groups/virtualoffice

Regina P. Brown

Hi Simone - A couple of things:

1) It was not "Jimmy Carters" plot to have everyone own a house. That's simply ridiculous. In fact, it was not until recently (lot's of people can take the blame for this) that the underwriting standards and procedures fell apart. If what you say was true, why then did it take over 30 years for all these toxic assets to arrive? Your simply trying to point the blame at ACORN or other groups. Face it, the Real Estate & Wall Street Speculators created mortgage backed securities, credit swaps, etc.

2) I hate to beat this dead horse, but I didn't hear the nation crying about the mis-use of their tax dollars for the war in Iraq. Did you have control over those dollars? Where was that money spent? So, here's your chance to hold your elected officials feet to the fire. Get more involved. Whether you like it or not, we're all investors in this now. I wasn't going to mention this, but the last Treasury Secretary rammed the last "bail out" down our throats without proper controls in place. You may recall, he didn't even want Congress to look at the plan.

3) Now I'm going to say something I'm going to regret: I don't understand the fetish Americans have with our system of capitalism. It's ridiculously naive to believe capitalism is the solution to every problem. As I've said before, when you're winning capitalism is a wonderful system. We are not in a winning position right now. It's going to take a combination of government (call it socialism) and capitalism to get us through this storm. By the way, I have a lot of family in Italy. They have a standard of living on par with ours and enjoy health care, pensions, a new/improved infrastructure, etc... We don't have all the answers here in this island called America.

Watching this debacle is like watching someone you love die,Only the someone I love who is dying is my country. What happens if the Chinese stop bying up the debt. What happens when the next terror attack or natural disaster hits. How soon till everybody is in the 75% tax bracket.

Oh well at least 12 year olds will be able to have abortions without parental consent.

Yup, it sure is a large amount of money.

Yup, we sure are in a large amount of troubles.

One thing the Republicans did was complain and then the second thing they did was not offer another plan.

Yup, Washington, DC is now and will forever be strictly politics as usual.

But, ever so optimistic, I am very hopeful that our President will help us find our way out of the very large and difficult issues that face us--so I am all for large ideas and large amount of money to solve them; because sure as hell, vast amount of monies were pocketed while getting us in this mess.

housing brought us down this drain and housing will pull us out!

Hi Jesse, I came back to say, smart remarks aside, I'm with you. I also can't see how capitalism can be blamed. The real blame falls under the category of: Greed; Lack of accountability; Zero integrity. We the people have allowed it to go on for too long and now it's a run away train.

Great post! It looks like Congress might actually make something happen tomorrow. But who knows?!

If you research countries in the black and in the red, most non-Western countries are in the black and most (all) Westernized countries are totally in the red, though India, Mexico, Australia, Brazil, and Canada not as badly. The most in-the-black ink countries are: United Arab Emerates (where Haliburton now lives), Singapore, Kuwait, and Qatar.

The speculation on CBOT is a sham since we allowed hedgers and speculators to not take delivery. This same mentality transferred to the housing market as it did the dot.com scenario. It's legalized gambling, not capitalism. When a company goes public, it is promarily done to attract PUBLIC investment for operating funds, among other things, like research & development of new ideas, direction, market-share expansion, product lines, etc, with the hopes of returning the favor by way of dividends... not 150% share price growth over short periods of time. Hence, naked short-selling lax rules were observed in-action immediately. This is a favorite of corporate raiders, and needless to say, run by many in the (unlegal) crevices of society, and I won't name them outright. The politicians either know what they're doing or are ignorant. I think a lot of the former and a little of the latter.

Dems and GOP, sorry to say, not much difference. Only exception is their choice in constituency. Not the other way around.

Best bet is to let it all fall and pick up the pieces. Should have been done way before the housing boom. So for now, discourage any bailouts except for infrastructure and ADVANCED alternative energy, as in anything that does not come from the ground (oil, lithium, coal, uranium). Move away from fiat money and go to fair tax across the board. Get rid of the Fed Reserve. No more borrowing - you, me, the city, state, fed, businesses - no one.

You cannot make profit from thin air. It has to be taken away from one place to increase it elsewhere. This is a policy of greed and enslavery (banking system)... which is why most people aren't happy no matter how many blackberries they own. We're too busy bending over backwards to be able to keep the goodies we "need" and "deserve" now that we cannot buy any more of it. If you don't have this problem, you will due to the fall-out, which is why everyone ought to be concerned.

I don't think a full-on strike by all Americans would even turn a fly's head. Not that anyone would bother to do it. We're too busy complaining, analyzing, blaming. And trying to "keep it together," whatever that means. (I think that's the "gotcha" - don't you think?)

Jesse,

Absolutely. that's why I even called my blog "Why Am I Stealing from My Grandchildren"

Rush, rush, rush, a clear sign that this is nothing more than a political stunt

WOW -- we sure could spend a lot of money in the economy if we did not have mortgages!

FEB

Jesse - interesting you quote Reagan! I think the (non)"stimulus" package really will stimulate something -- inflation! Count on it... we are officially cooked.

Sounds like you would enjoy my most recent blog post...

I suppose you would prefer them to do nothing? Or perhaps do the same things that the Bush legacy did to get us in this mess. At least they are trying to do something. Our republican senator voted for it. He is one of the few in government that will go across party lines to benefit the country. Without a good economy, we will no longer be a powerful nation. I am so sick of partisan bull____ on both sides of the aisle.

I am not as concerned about the amount of money being spent as I am about the fact that I do not think in the long run it will do any good. In dropping 382 points yesterday, neither did the stock market like what it was seeing.

Getting people jobs and not just providing work for them is what will solve the problem in the long run. And yes, there is a difference between jobs and work. J

Jobs are created when companies expand because of a growing market and when other companies and small businesses are formed. Jobs are there for the long haul. Employees in jobs see stability and start to invest in homes, cars, etc because they can see a future with their job.

Work is usually short term and related to a contract. Many people are hired for the duration of the contract, but once it is completed they are out of work and looking for another contract for which they can be hired. There is no stability in having to jump from one work related contract to another. When you have work and not a job, you are not as apt to invest in the economy of the country.

When we invest in the economy of our country, we create jobs, we create growth and we have a healthy and vibrant country. When we create work, we put a temporary fix on the problem but not a long term solution.

So much of what I see in the Stimulus Package is work related and not job related. What happens when all the contracts are completed and the workers are again looking for another contract? Does that signify another potential Stimulus Bil three, four years from now? Could be.

Jesse - I think there has to be a huge change in the way Americans think or we will never get out of this mess... The "large" lifestyles that many folks think they need and the fact that everyone thinks they can get rich quick and not have to work are leading us down a path to disaster... Working is what made this country strong, yet no one wants to do it anymore.

famous last words, and it doesnt seem nearly as funny as it once is, "I am from the governement and am hear to help"

Just popping back to tell you a funny story. Sort of funny. The unfunny part is that there is an arsonist going around Coatesville, PA, setting fires to entire blocks of row houses. It's really a tragedy and we were discussing how we could help the displaced familes at the Chester County Women's Commission board meeting. Someone, who works for the county, suggested that the people of Coatesville didn't need our help as many government agencies were already jumping into the fray to help out. I raised my hand and asked if I might be cynical for a moment. I got permission and then I asked if the government agencies were helping out as well as they did down in Louisiana during Katrina. You could have heard a pin drop. Oops.

Well I guess they get to look at other failing economies over the past 10 years and see what those countries did to get back on their feet and cherry pick. I am convinced that they have the most brilliant minds in the country assessing the options and solutions. I agree $1 trillion is staggering. The economic complexities of this thing are overwhelming ... it's like a biology ecosystem gone way out of wack and then it starts to implode. We better have the most brilliant minds on this thing to stop the implosion and get the thing righted.

Rebecca - I couldn't agree more.

Shuki - We will survive... the question now is how long will it take us to recover from the poor decisions currently being made.

Morgan - Great plan but frankly I don't know how to emotionally disconnect from this mess. It's infuriating.

April - I agree... enough is enough.

James - We may not always agree, but your comments are always welcomed. One thing we certainly agree on is that we could have and should have made much more progress in the alternative energy field. That opportunity was simply squandered.

Simone - We've been on the entitlement bandwagon for a while... and it's simply getting worse. I agree... I'm looking forward to better days for the nation as well.

Maryellen - I'm one of many that think the war was mismanaged... but I also recognize the complexities involved. Frankly, I really just have no faith that the folks on the Hill will get it right this time when they haven't managed to get it right yet.

Chris - I'm certainly not advocating that we don't address the issue... I just don't support throwing more money down a black hole.

Regina - Where's it going to end? That, my friend, is a good question.

James - "We're all investors in this now." Agreed. That's why making our voices heard is vital. Italy? Come on, James. Talk about a corrupt, inefficient government. Those standard of living perks you mention come at a price... think nearly half of GDP. That's the model we should follow? No thanks. I'll continue to be a proponent of a economic system that rewards hard work and innovation.

Hugh - I would laugh at the "oh well, at least..." comment but I get sick every time I think about it.

Lorraine - A lot of alternate plans have been offered.... the problem is too many on the Hill don't believe in a free market even during the good times... let alone the bad.

Jennifer - It will if we offer a realistic plan to get it back on its feet.

Doreen - Agreed. I don't like down times anymore than the next fellow but capitalism is not the problem. Big risks sometimes mean big losses... as I've said not everyone is leveraged up to their eyeballs... some of us were smart enough NOT to let greed override our common sense.

Jason - They're going to make something happen... the question is whether it will help or do yet more damage.

RM - Welcome back. It was legalized gambling. Too many folks signed up hoping to hit that short term 150% jackpot... others signed up not having any idea what they were doing, which was just as poor a move in my opinion. "Best to let it fall..." I hate to say it but I agree.

Jon - Stealing from our grandchildren is exactly what we're doing with these bailouts.

Paul - Isn't that the truth!

Jay - That's exactly what it's going to stimulate. I'll be by to look at your post.

Linda - I have no problem going across party lines... WHEN a common sense approach is put forth. So far that hasn't happened. Spend, spend, spend... or wait, that's actually, borrow, borrow, borrow isn't exactly a plan that inspires confidence. I fault Bush for more than a few things, but he did not create this mess. What I would prefer them to do is reduce federal spending, reduce waste and put the money and incentives into the hands of the folks who are the true economic engine of the country. Big government has never been nor is it designed to be an economic engine.

Bob - I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Debbie - We are certainly at a point in our history where a good many have an overdeveloped entitlement mentality. There's no shortcut to success, is there?

James - It's not as funny as it used to be, is it?

Susan Darlin' - Welcome back! A lot of things went wrong in Katrina from the federal level on down. We should all pitch in to help our neighbors in need when a disaster strikes. Hopefully the police with catch the little bugger setting the fires... and cook his goose. :)

Julie - It is a complex situation with no easy answers... but some obvious no-no's. The good news is we do have some smart folks working on the problem... let's hope they prevail.

I am happy for the $15,000 home buyer tax credit. Aren't you? I take it you don't like democratic presidents.

Got to respond to James. I do not like to place blame I always look for solutions. I thought I stated that all presidents since Carter believed in making home ownership a major goal. I do not see a blaming statement on Carter.

Second point, I live near the White House and I call to express my opinions regularly and did so for the last 8 years included.

Times are not easy, but we will come out of this, too.

Elizabeth - I thought they dropped it to $7,500? As for democratic Presidents... I haven't been too fond of any of the last few occupants.

Simone - I agree... we will come out of this. Hopefully we'll come out a stronger, more resolved nation.

FEB

Yes, they did. But at least it's slated to be a tax credit and not an interest-free loan. I haven't heard if the time limit will be extended beyond July, but at least it should give home buyers an incentive to get off the fence. Plus, the loan limits may revert to last year's higher numbers, which would be a good thing. I'm always trying to find the silver linings in things, you know. :)

Yes, you are... and I'm very happy about the things you mentioned. It seems like the last I heard the credit was slated to sunset in July... but it would be nice to see it extended. There's definitely some silver among the gray skies. :)

Enough was a long time ago. This is snowballing, and gets uglier and uglier - both the market (real estate, stock, bond - WHATEVER) and the fixes for it. But, I know some first time home buyers who will be able to take advantage of the hopefully soon to be approved $8,000 credit vs zero interest loan, and some home builders who may be able to keep crews busy on affordable housing, so I'll put my blinders back on and focus on that for now. And when I can't ignore the chatter in the background anymore, I'll write more letter to my elected officials.

FEB

The sunset is to be extended through December 2009, so here's to a busy Spring/Summer selling season!

FEB

Jesse,

I'm sorry for being late to your party and have not read the comment stream so please forgive me if I re-state some things.

I am thinking that we are looking a one HELL of a debt that we will have trouble working our way out of well past our great-great grand children. I think that if the government was serious about this whole issue they would have paid off all of our mortgages and that would put an instant surge of cash into the economy by giving all of us that additional $$$$$$$$. Forget about bailing out the big businesses with no strungs attached and allowing them to go on high priced junkets and then bitc&ing about it. they, the government, is creating a bigger fiasco by continuing on this path.

That's my two cents and it is quickly dwindling down to one cent worth.

Jesse and Kathy- You got a lot of traction here, hit that nerve! You know where I stand on this!

Our country has the second highest corporate tax in the world.

People need to get a grip, it is not the lack of regulation, quite the opposite, there is too much regulation and not enough oversight. The more you strangle the corporations the more they are going to move on to greener pastures then the people who push them out can waive their pensions bye bye too.Then they can complain about how greedy the corps are because they left the US. Well, I run my biz on sound biz principles and profits, not socialist agendas.

Taxing people does not stimulate the economy. Take some lessons from California. Spending your way into stimulis does not work. Expanding government does not work either. FDR experiments were failures. California's second highest taxes in the US are chasing businesses and people out of that state. Plans were brought before as alternatives but Pelosi locked the GOP out of the sessions! For the 1st time in over 100 years of the house, only Nancy Pelosi changed to rules to not allow debate or discussion or changes by the minority party!

If Pres Obama would come out and just say that there will be a temporary lift on all Capital gains even just for one year- you would see a stimulis greater than this SPENDIMORE bill will ever provide. THe jobs have to be created in the private sector not the goverment sector.

There is even a roll back and spitting in Clinton's face with all the bipartison welfare reform he did while in office, all going down the tubes now in this bill. Clinton looks like a conservative in comparison.

And to all those that tout that the GOP lost and therefore we should just cave all the way into socialism - well- where were they to apply the same philosophy when Bush was in office? Protesting and hating, that is where. But we are supposed to sit by quietly while they bash Bush and then fully support the new President's socialist agenda. Sorry, can't have it both ways.

Pres Bush succomed to socialism and that was a sad thing. But now the young conservatives are waking up, there is movement, the new GOP reforming and we are going to have our voices heard.

Oh, BTW- For all the anti war protestors who support Pres Obama's campaigns- Did you just see that he is going to send 30,000 troops into Afghanistan ASAP???? Hmmmm, if Bush was doing that all heck would be breaking loose.

I am so proud of my young conservative sons who are now going to get into politics to make a difference, so are agents I know - 2 are running for GOP mayors of their towns.

This is going to have a silver lining! Conservatives are going back to their values and principles and young people everywhere are joining the party of entrepreneurship and small business.

FEB

What a great topic to wirte about!!! I have to say the frustration that is the government is beyond me. I have been writing and calling our government officials on a regular basis... Until we flood the phone lines and stuff thier inboxes and mailboxes with letters to let them know what we really want, I don't think we will be heard!

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