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    In today's economy, many people have become energy conscious.  In order to save on those monthly energy bills, homeowners have come up with some creative ways to seal off their homes from the elements.  Unfortunately, some of the common methods being employed are actually detrimental to the health of the home, and do little to accomplish the desired end.  One of those methods is closing off or covering the crawlspace vents in the curtain wall.

     It seems to make sense.  Here in the south, insulation is rarely installed under the floor of a home with a conventional foundation.  Our warm climate does not dictate the necessity.  But in the winter, the idea of cold air circulating under your house makes you shiver, and that first winter energy bill makes you shudder!  So, you reasonably figure that closing off those "pneumonia holes" all around the house will keep some of the warm air in, and the cold air out.  Right?  WRONG!

    Closing off crawlspace venting does little for your bottom line on heating or cooling bills, and may have serious repurcussions as well.  The purpose of all those holes in the side of your home is to allow air flow.  The purpose of having air flow in your crawlspace is to prevent the accumulation of water vapor.  The purpose of preventing this accumulation, in turn, is to prevent actual structural damage, discourage the growth of molds which may be detrimental to your health (especially small children!), and to encourage wood destroying insects to look elsewhere to establish a colony.

    "Oh, come on!" you say.  Surely a little water vapor can't do all that!!  After all, we live in a humid climate here in the South.  Humidity is everywhere.  Yes, that is true, but here is what happens:  When you close off those vents, you trap whatever moisture is already in the air under your home.  The humidity is increased every time it rains, especially if the drainage around your foundation is inadequate in areas.  Eventually, the floor joists and girders, even the masonry piers under your home become saturated with moisture.  Molds love the combination of wood and water.  The damp, cool soil is an invitation to termites.

    I have learned over time to put on my high-tech filter mask when entering a crawlspace that has been sealed off in such a manner.  Why?  Mold.  Depending on how long venting has been compromised, I expect to find joists and girders that are damp or even wet to the touch, with molds and fungi visible on the surface.  I don't want to breath in spores that can make me sick!  In addition to that, joists can become bowed, weakening the home's strutural integrity.  Think about this.  When a craftsman want to curve a piece of wood, what does he do?  If you've ever re-caned an old chair, what do you do with the caning material to make it pliable?  That's right you soak it!  That is exactly what happens when you trap water vapor under your home!  The process is much slower than immersion, of course, but the end result is the same.  You create weakened wood structural members that are slowly bowing and rotting.  Your kids start to have respiratory problems, and you don't know why.  Eventually, shoring up floors with extra piers and girders, or having to get rid of mold becomes an expensive proposition.  Suddenly, a few (and I do mean a few) saved bucks on an energy bill looks like a bargain.

    So get out there and yank off those neatly cut plywood planks you stuck over those holes four years ago!  If you don't have it already, make sure there is a plastic vapor barrier covering the ground under your crawlspace.  Check out your drainage around the foundation, and make sure that roof drainage and surface water is moving as quickly as possible away from your foundation.  You can pat yourself on the back when you don't have to take out a second mortgage to fix a terrible mistake.

    For more cool information for homeowners and real estate professionals, visit www.sherlockhomeinspects.com

 
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56 Comments on If you think closing off crawlspace vents is saving you money, you're all wet!

MAY
08
2007
5 Featured Posts

Jimmy,

Good article,

I have a lot of respect for those inspectors who crawl under house during home inspections.  They earn their money for sure.

Cheers

Mario

4:12pm • #1

Make certain there are NO exposed pipes in areas with cooler (as in cold temperatures). Broken water pipes can be costly and plugging a few vents through the winter is not that difficult ~ but you must remember to pull the plugs when the weather warms up. Also you can ensure all pipes are well wrapped to avoid a potential catastrophe...

 

G.

4:30pm • #2
Glenda...correct me if I'm wrong, but it's pretty humid in Oregon, isn't it?  Wrapping pipes with insulation and heat cords is a good idea, but closing vents is NEVER a good idea!  Trapping moisture in any weather is always a no no!
5:24pm • #3
Mario, especially down in Florida with all those overgrown pet snakes crawling around! :-)  On the other hand, they're much easier to see than our little 4' Copperheads.
5:26pm • #4

Jimmy you are right.  I can't tell you how many times I find (as a licensed structural pest inspector) wood destroying insects in crawl spaces that have had vents blocked.  Coastal Washington and Oregon don't get so cold that one needs to block the vents.  If there is a short (and they always seem to be short here) cold snap where the temp drops into the 20's, I wouldn't mind if you blocked them for the duration of the cold snap.  Just remember to remove them as soon as the temp comes back up.  A better way (you don't have to remember to unblock them) is to insulate those pipes, heat tape them if you must.  Just keep the air flowing.

 By the way, I had a client follow me around in the crawl space yesterday.  He was really impressed at the lengths an old guy like me goes through to do a thorough inspection.  We do not have poisonous snakes here!

11:38pm • #5
MAY
09
2007
Wow, David!  I'm impressed that a client actually followed you into the crawlspace!  Now, that's a gutsy client! LOL!  I've had some come into the attic with me, but never a crawlspace.  So far as snakes go, this is the time of year when they are most dangerous.  They are almost blind until they molt, so they spook easily.  That's why I like to take the 2 mil candlelight flashlight into a crawlspace.  Fortunately, the ones you might find hiding there, the rattlers and copperheads, like their environment as dry as possible.  Anyway, I've yet to encounter a poisonous species under a home. 
11:48am • #6
MAY
10
2007

Jimmie,

Fortunately we don't have snakes in Alaska. Excellent blog, I'll contribute some thoughts later, right now I got's to run.

Alaska Don

12:57am • #7

Well Jimmy I'm not so sure that venting a crawlspace is really the proper thing to do.  Maybe on the coastal states or in fllood prone areas it's a good thing.  But in most other parts of the country closing off the vents and treating the crawlspace as part of the building boundry has proven to keep it drier and less prone to mold and mildew. 

Of course doing this entails covering the earth with a vapor barrier to prevent moisture from moving upwards outta the dirt, insulating the walls and providing a drainage system similar to a sump pump.  Having those vents open in the summertime provides a huge entry for moist humid air to enter and condense on the colder crawlspace surfaces.  And of course having them open in the winter allows cold air to come in.

If interested here's a great article from Building Science that'll explain this philosophy and give ya something to think about.  Course things aren't always the same in every part of the country so it's always best to do what works for you in your particular local.

Air Flow Control 

On the link just click on the arrow next to expand article and it'll load up for you.

4:13pm • #8

D.J.  If you are talking about conditioned crawl spaces I agree with you.  That means heating them in the winter and cooling them in the summer.  That probably works in some areas of the country, though it is an expensive retrofit if the house wasn't built that way in the first place.  Where I live, coastal Washington, there are very, very few conditioned crawlspaces.  For this area, at least, Jimmy is right on.

4:21pm • #9
Any climate with high levels of humidity should have crawlspace ventilation, even if the grading and overall drainage is perfect.  Great link, D.J.  There are very few days in this part of the world where the humidity is less that 65%.  I've lived in Seattle, and it's probably more humid there, albeit not so hot!  Around here in the summer, it will suck the juice right out of you if you aren't careful.  Ninety degrees here is worse than 115 in Pheonix.
6:02pm • #10

See what the United States Department of Energy says:

 

Crawl Space Insulation

If you properly insulate your crawl space-in addition to air sealing and controlling moisture, you will save on energy costs and increase your home's comfort.

Before insulating or deciding whether to add insulation to your crawl space, first see our information about adding insulation to an existing house or selecting insulation for new home construction if you haven't already.

How to insulate a crawl space depends on whether its ventilated or unventilated. Traditionally, crawl spaces have been vented to prevent problems with moisture; most building codes require vents to aid in removing moisture from the crawl space. However, many building professionals now recognize that building an unventilated crawl space (or closing vents after the crawl space dries out following construction) is the best option in homes using proper moisture control and exterior drainage techniques. There are two main reasons for this line of thinking:

  • Ventilation in the winter makes it difficult to keep crawl spaces warm

  • Warm, moist outdoor air brought into the crawl space through foundation vents in the summer is often unable to dehumidify a crawl space. In fact, this moist outdoor air can lead to increased moisture levels in the crawl space.

Insulating an Unventilated Crawl Space

If you have or will have an unventilated crawl space, then your best approach is to seal and insulate the foundation walls rather than the subfloor. The advantages of insulating the crawl space are as follows:

  • You can avoid the problems associated with ventilating a crawl space.

  • Less insulation is required (around 400 square feet for a 1,000-square-foot crawl space with 3-foot walls.)

  • Piping and ductwork are within the conditioned volume of the house so they don't require insulation for energy efficiency or protection against freezing.

  • Air sealing between the house and the crawl space is less critical.

The disadvantages of insulating a crawl space include the following:

  • The insulation may be damaged by rodents, pests, or water.

  • A radon mitigation system will require ventilation of the crawl space to the exterior. Not planning for radon-resistant construction may necessitate air sealing the floor to mitigate the radon through ventilation.

  • The crawl space must be built airtight, and the air barrier must be maintained.

  • The access door to the crawl space must be located inside the home through the subfloor unless an airtight, insulated access door in the perimeter wall is built and maintained.

Steps for Installing Crawl Space Wall Insulation

  1. Review plans for this method of foundation insulation with pest control and local building officials to ensure code compliance.

  2. Eliminate or seal the foundation vents.

  3. Ensure that combustion furnaces and water heaters located in the crawl space are sealed-combustion units equipped with a powered combustion system.

  4. Seal all air leaks through the exterior wall during and after construction, including the band joist.

  5. Locate the crawl space access inside the home or install an access through the perimeter that will remain airtight after repeated use.

  6. Install rigid foam board or batt insulation-exterior foam, interior foam, or interior batt-to achieve complete insulation coverage. Insulate the band joist with batt insulation, as well as the crawl space access if it's located in the wall.

  7. Install a continuous termite shield between the band joist and masonry foundation wall that covers the wall insulation and extends completely outside (or leave a 2- to 4-inch insulation gap at the top for termite inspection).

  8. Install a supply outlet in the crawl space, relying on the leakiness of the floor to provide the return air path.

Diagram of two options for insulating a crawl space. Option 1 is exterior foam insulation. A protective membrane covers exterior rigid insulation and folds over top course of foundation block. Option 2 is interior foam insulation. Labeled parts include a sill gasket, unfaced insulation in a band joist, and a 6-mil poly vapor diffusion retarder. A protective membrane overlaps and extends down insulation to provide capillary break. Rigid insulation (fire-rated) has joints taped or sealed. A perforated drainage pipe is embedded in gravel, covered with filter fabric, and located at the lower perimeter of the foundation footing to provide drainage. Diagram of third option for insulating a crawl space. Option 3 is interior batt insulation. The diagram shows R-11 to R-19 batt insulation along the crawl space. Labeled parts include a sill gasket, unfaced insulation in the band joist, and a 6-mil poly vapor diffusion retarder. A protective membrane overlaps and extends down insulation to provide capillary break. A perforated drainage pipe is embedded in gravel, covered with filter fabric, and located at the lower perimeter of the foundation footing to provide drainage.

Steps for Installing Underfloor Insulation

  1. During the early phases of construction, the builder should inform all subcontractors (plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc.) that they need to keep the space between the floor joists as clear as possible. Run drain lines, electrical wiring, and ductwork below the bottom of the insulation so that a continuous layer of insulation can be installed. For freeze protection, supply plumbing may be located within the insulation. The best approach is to run supply plumbing together in a few joist spaces. The insulation can be split and run around the plumbing.

  2. Seal all air leaks between the conditioned area of the home and the crawl space. High-priority leaks include holes around bathtub drains and other drain lines, plenums for ductwork, and penetrations for electrical wiring, plumbing, and ductwork (including duct boot connections at the floor).

  3. Insulation batts with an attached vapor barrier are typically used to insulate framed floors. Obtain insulation with the proper width for the joist spacing of the floor being insulated. Complete coverage is essential. Leave no insulation voids. The batts should be installed flush against the subfloor to eliminate any gaps, which may serve as passageways for cold airflow between the insulation and subfloor. The batts also should be cut to the full length of the joist being insulated and slit to fit around wiring and plumbing.

  4. Insulate the band joist area between the air ducts and the floor as space permits. Use insulation hangers (wire staves) spaced every 12-18 inches to hold the floor insulation in place without compressing the insulation more than 1 inch.

  5. The orientation of the vapor barrier depends on the home's location or climate. In most of the country, the vapor barrier should face upward. However, in certain regions of the Gulf states and other areas with mild winters and hot summers, it should face downward.

  6. Insulate all ductwork in the crawl space.

  7. Insulate all hot and cold water lines in the crawl space unless they are located within the insulation.

  8. Close crawl space vents after ensuring that the crawl space and all the construction materials are dry.

For insulating truss floor systems, it's better to install netting or foam board insulation to the underside of the floor trusses. Then, fill the space created between the netting or insulation and subfloor with loose-fill insulation.

Insulating a Ventilated Crawl Space

Here are some guidelines to follow for insulating a ventilated crawl space:

  1. Carefully seal any and all holes in the floor above ("ceiling" of the crawl space) to prevent air from blowing up into the house.

  2. Insulate between the floor joists with rolled fiberglass. Install it tight against the subfloor. Seal all of the seams carefully to keep wind from blowing into the insulation. Also, adequately support the insulation with mechanical fasteners so that it will not fall out of the joist spaces in the years to come. DO NOT just rely on the friction between the fiberglass and wood joists to secure it in place.

  3. Cover the insulation with a house-wrap or face it with a vapor barrier.

  4. Install a polyethylene vapor retarder, or equivalent material, over the dirt floor. Tape and seal all seams carefully. You may also cover the polyethylene with a thin layer of sand or concrete to protect it from damage. Do not cover the plastic with anything that could make holes in it, such as crushed gravel. Be sure the headroom of the crawl space meets local code regulations if you are considering pouring a concrete slab.

  5. The orientation of the vapor barriers depends on the home's location or climate.

Other Considerations

As mentioned above, when properly insulating a crawl space, you also have to consider moisture control measures and air sealing.

Finally, you need to consider radon resistance or control when installing any type of foundation. See the Learn More resources on the right side of this page (or below if you've printed it out) for more information about radon and radon-resistant construction techniques.

Learn More

Professional Services

Federal Government Resources

Reading List

  • Radon-resistant Construction for Builders (PDF 46 KB). (2002). Energy Fact Sheet 30. Southface Energy Institute.
  • Crawl Space Insulation (PDF 235 KB). (December 2000). DOE/GO2000-0774. U.S. Department of Energy.
  • "New Crawl Space Data." (August 2002). Energy Design Update (22:8); pp. 9-11.
  • Crawl Space Ventilation (PDF 223 KB). (July 2004). Forest Products Laboratory.
7:51pm • #11

Gary,

Now, that's good information.  Especially for new construction.  The link D.J. offered above is also good information.  So, knowing that it is possible (albeit expensive), to provide a sealed environment even in existing structures, should we, as home inspectors, include advisory links on the subject in our reports?  It is my thinking that it is still much, much more likely that clients will opt for the inexpensive venting and drainage techniques.  That was my thinking in the original blog, at least.  Down south, we've all seen what simply closing off those vents can do.  I inspected an older home in the Delta last week that had a continuous vapor barrier, but the vents had been closed off for several years.  Drainage around the home was 'iffy' in a couple of places, largely due to vegetation too near the foundation, but overall not bad.  Girders and joists were literally soaked, and, of course there was mold galore.  It was a pretty large, turn-of-the-century home.  What would you have recommended in such a situation?

10:47pm • #12
MAY
11
2007
I did one the other day. I was told ahead of time that there was some "moisture" in the crawlspace due to a "high water table". Well, I don't know about the high water table, but there were 2 downspouts that emptied about 12 inches from 2 belowgrade "vents". It was a 36" crawlspace that had a "high water mark stain" about 1 foot from the joists bottom. (There was about 2" the day I went down there). I told them about extending the downspouts, fixing the negative grade, consider french drains, replace the existing "vapor barrier" etc. The sad part was that the entire floor, girder, sill and lower walls were replaced 10 years ago due to rot.
6:03pm • #13
And the underlying cause was left unattended.  You would think it would occur to someone to wonder why this happened.  I will say that older home are very difficult to create that airtight environment, so more conventional methods are both preferable and cost effective.
6:55pm • #14

I don't really feel comfortable with the initial argument you made Jimmy. Maybe site specific crawlspace vents work in your area. But in just about every humid place in this world the crawlspace tends to be cool and the hot humit air that enters condenses on the wood, the fiberglass insulation and kraft paper, the plumbing that is not insulated, etc.

Simply closing vents into the crawlspace and opening venting directly into the living space in tandem with good vapor barriers and a dehumidification system seems to solve most of the issues we are faced with in the Northeast.

The termites don't like dry wood, the insulation is not wet so it works, and dry insulation doesn't grow mold and the joists, girders, subfloor, and beams don't rot. With a good vapor barrier the odors are gone and in winter the foundation wrapped on the inside with polystyrene is warmer.

I frankly believe, along with the guys from Building Science that crawl venting should be taken out of the building codes.

Steve Gladstone 2004 ASHI National President

7:58pm • #15

Every thing mentioned so far is true as is the original intention of Jimmy's article.

If the place was built with with crawlspace vents as per original intention of the builder,then those vents need to be left open.

When dealing with older structures,trying to condition them can often do more harm than good.

The arguments are good on both sides when discussing new construction and is very related to climate.

10:38pm • #16
New construction techniques address the issue.  Floor insulation in conventional foundations, even in new construction, is a rarity in the south.  Things that are taken for granted in one area, are uncommon or unheard of in another.  Crawlspaces in older homes can be made relatively airtight, and heating and cooling adapted to control the relative humidity of the crawlspace, albeit expensively.  Drainage and seepage become issues over time, as older, larger shrubs are removed, but their root systems become a pathway for moisture, or water is trapped near foundations by built-up flower beds, etc.  All the points made in response to this post have validity, either for a region, or in the context of new construction or energy efficiency improvements.  I should have made the point that what I had in mind was older, conventional construction designed for crawlspace ventilation.  I reiterate; in this climate, if you close off those vents, you will eventually have mold, or bowed or rotting wood members unless you spend the money to seal the crawlspace and adapt the heating and cooling....an expense that few are willing to undertake.  I have to say, this has certainly turned out to be a very interesting thread, and I thank everyone for their input.  Each of you make a valid point.
11:06pm • #17

All of these comments are good with verying amounts of validity. I've had the privilege of attending several conferences where Joe Lstiburek has been the featured speaker. I'll never forget one of his favorite lines, "Treat a crawl space as a basement for short people." It's simple ICF's.moisture barrier, HRV system.

Alaska Don

11:30pm • #19
MAY
12
2007

Hi Don...You just could not resist could you.

I thought you taught Keifer better than that.

12:11am • #20
Basements are another rarity in the South.  We don't dig rabbit holes unless, as I said to Bob the other day, we just want to.  The thing here is, everyone thinks regionally.  If you've ever been in the Mississippi Delta in August (or even May), your visibility will be obstructed by a gray mist....and unlike LA, it isn't smog.  It's visible humidity.  It is literally like being in a sauna.  Take an older home built in the early 20th century or before with a brick curtain wall, close off those vents, add central air, and see what the pressure differential will do to that crawlspace.  Stephen and Don make valid points, but the remedies suggested require expensive outlays.  Stephen, I believe Connecticutt has one of the highest per capita incomes in this nation.  As is common knowledge, Mississippi has one of the lowest.  People look for inexpensive remedies to such problems.  So I will now present to the audience an inexpensive dehumidification system that is economical, works like a charm, and can hardly be argued against.  In the relatively mild winters, my Dad kept a couple of those kerosene oil burners like you used to see on road construction sites long ago.  He lit one on each end of the crawlspace, only when the weather was cold and wet, and left the vents open.  Worked like a charm.  Masonry block foundation, good drainage.
1:07am • #21

 

Ugghhh, from bad to worse... adding kerosene heaters burning in the crawlspace... whatever your dad was thinking was probably wiped out by the carbon monoxide poisoning. This ones a really bad idea.

There's really little expense to closing up vents, putting down plastic vapor barrier and cutting some vents into the floor of the home. A conditioned crawl need only be the same temp as the rest of the home . 

 

1:30pm • #22

Hey Jimmy, I know you're wanting to save your clients money, but there's some things that require a bit of labor and money spent inorder to protect one's investment.  In reality, venting will only help reduce crawl space moisture levels when the outside air is dryer than crawl space air, or when enough hot outside air enters and warms the crawl space. Outside air most of the year in Mississippi will contain more moisture than the crawl space air and will no doubt make the situation worse, not better.  All that moisture coming out of the crawl can and will find it's way into the house via what's called "stack effect" .

There are really two legit. types of crawlspace:
--a well-ventilated(to the outside) crawl, with insulation
against the floorboards and over pipes and ducts or
--a "conditioned crawlspace", with no vents to outside,
venting to inside, walls line with foam, and the
outer 2-4 feet of the dirt floor with foam too.

Note that both types always have to have a complete covering of 6-mil poly or better on the floor. The dirt pores are a huge moisture source.

Fully vented crawls are still used in cold climates, but lots of wrapping, and heat tapes, are needed to prevent pipe blowouts and energy loss in cold snaps. And in the summer when the humidity is high the vents should be closed to keep the moisture out and condensing on the cooler areas.  And then a dehumidifier should be running down under to collect any moisture and direct it out. 

 

3:03pm • #23

Thinking was different back then,Remember your stove cooks right in the middle of your kitchen yet I bet most people do not give a second thought to how that affects oxygen content.

Now just to take the other viewpoint,why in the world would you want to not only go through all the expense of conditioning your crawl just so you can have the privledge of paying a fifty percent higher bill.

I mean what are you gonna do play ping pong or maybe some pickup basketball.   You might as well recommend switching crawl to full basement and at least increase the value of the place.

4:51pm • #24
Not to mention that my Dad's home didn't have central air to "cut a few vents" for in the first place.  Neither did the home I inspected last week.  D.J.....really, come on.  So I suppose I should have recommended adding central air, insulating the band joist, sealing the curtain wall against the outside (home already had a vapor barrier, just to give you an idea), and "cutting a few vents" for the crawlspace.  Go back and read the post.  I specifically mention the region I am referring to.
6:19pm • #25

Bob,

In the coastal region of south central Alaska, to increase energy efficiency we do the following: 1. Footings must be 42" below finished grade to minimize movement due to freezing. 2. We use ICF's (insulated concrete forms), slightly more cost than woodforms which also have to be stripped. Lots of saved labor. 3. Mininmum 6 mil poly moisture barrier from sill to ground and sealed across entire crawl space. 4. This also eliminates need for insulation under floor. 5. Install whole house HRV (heat recovery ventilation system) in crawl space. 6. With PEX tubing attached under floor for radiant heat, you'll have a very efficient and comfortable home. You can even install a high efficiency boiler in crawl. Problem solved. As Joe Lstiburek says "A basement for short people".

Alaska Don

Donald Sutherland-Inspector-Seward, Alaska
6:44pm • #26
MAY
13
2007
Donald, that all makes perfect sense for Alaska.  If I were building a home up there, I wouldn't have it any other way.  That sounds like a better system than forced air heat.  Of course, you guys are lucky in that you don't need air conditioning.  What do you call south central up there?  Like, south of what city?  Is your area coastal?  Is it also common up there now to seal the attic space?
12:33am • #27

D.J.....really, come on.  So I suppose I should have recommended adding central air, insulating the band joist, sealing the curtain wall against the outside (home already had a vapor barrier, just to give you an idea), and "cutting a few vents" for the crawlspace.  Go back and read the post.  I specifically mention the region I am referring to.

 

Hey Jimmy,  I'm very aware of the region you're referring to and I would suppose this all must sound pretty foreign to you since it's not the accepted norm. But if you look at all of this from outside the box and consider the laws of physics instead it may help in understanding. 

Moisture flows from areas of high moisture to areas of low moisture and heat also flows from areas of high temperature to low temperature.  They seek the path of least resistance.  So high outside humidity will flow into a below grade crawlspace.  Then this high humidity will travel up into the lower humidity level inside the house.  This then causes the A/C equipment in the house to work harder and ends up costing more $$$ to run.  And this humidity that naturally gets drawn in also condenses as it travels leaving the wood wet and ripe for mold growth. 

Insulating the band joist, sealing and insulating the walls and ground, closing off all external vents and running a dehumidifier, (basically encapsulating the crawl) will provide a dry controlled climate, a much better indoor air quality and cut back on energy use at the same time.  

Yes, it'll cost some money to install this but not near as much money as it would cost to replace rotted floor joist and buckled flooring along with all the mold and mildew and termite damage that's created from not doing it.  The way I look at it is my clients hire me to inspect their homes.  To me this includes educating them about potential problems and pitfalls.   I try to bottom line potential problems.  I can't consider their income level when informing them of these problems or remedies.  If a roof is shot then they're informed a new roof is required.  Now whether they choose to install a 20 year shingle or a 50 year shingle is up to them.  I have no control over whether they take my advice and institute my recommendations or not.   But what I do know is that I did the job they hired me to do, informing them and teaching them about their house.  What they do with that information is up to them.

Just incase you're interested, here's a great article addressing the handeling of crawlspaces in the deep south, may even be a good paper to include with your reports. 

12:18pm • #28
Very good info from every comment, good points
12:27pm • #29

Jimmy,

Seward is a coastal community, approximately 125 miles south of Anchorage, on the Kenai Peninsula. We have humidity ranging from 60 to 100% year round. Moisture control here is a challenge. Most new construction will use R-50+ in the ceiling, with a well ventilated attic crawl, which leaves a cold roof that eliminates ice damming.

Alaska Don

2:21pm • #30
I agree with DJ, That's why I told my client the floor/sills etc. had to be replaced 12 years ago, and why it is starting again and will continue to deteriorate unless they do something about the crawlspace, such as making it a "conditioned space". (by the way DJ, I could not see the article, do you have to subscribe?)
6:15pm • #31

Hi Bruce,

I don't know why the article didn't come up for you, there's no subscription needed.  Well anyhow, I'll copy it below so you'll have it just in case.

 

Solve Crawlspace Moisture Problems Kevin O'Neill00/07/0000

Moisture in crawlspaces can be a problem in any area of the country. Here's expert advice on solving the problem, once and for all.

In coastal areas of the U.S., it's common to have houses built over closed crawlspaces. This is partly because the water table is often so high that if you build a basement under a house, it's like having an indoor swimming pool. About 30% of all new houses built in the southern part of the U.S. are built on crawlspaces. In South Carolina, the number is more like 70%.

The trouble with crawlspace construction is that it's more likely to have mold and wood rot problems than other types of construction. Both of these problems are types of fungal growth.

If mold is growing on the wood in the crawlspace, even in spots, you have problems. If it's a white mold, it's usually a surface mold, but consider it a sign that humidity levels are too high. White mold usually doesn't cause real damage to the wood; however, if you see black or brown mold, that's rot fungus: Structural damage is occurring that could require replacement of wood members. Immediate action is required!

If you find something that looks like roots going from the ground into the wood, that's Poria fungus. It's very bad, and can completely destroy a house in just a few months. Cut the roots and immediately get expert attention.

Wood rot only occurs when the moisture content is above the fiber saturation point, about 27% to 28% wood moisture content. In order to keep this in perspective, consider the following: Fresh-cut wood is typically around 200% moisture; that is, twice as much water as wood. Kiln-dried wood has seven to 10% wood moisture content. Air-dried wood has a typical moisture content of 19%, but that varies with the relative humidity (RH). With an RH of 10% and normal temperatures, you can expect wood moisture content to be around 3%. With a relative humidity of 100%, you can expect a wood moisture content of 23 to 26%.

The 28% wood moisture content necessary for rot to occur doesn't come about from just high humidity. Water has to make contact with the wood before the wood rots. Any time the relative humidity is over 70%, you can get spot condensate because temperatures vary throughout a crawlspace.

Bugs, mold, and rot affect wood in the crawlspace. All three have the same basic requirements: food, water or humidity above 70%, temperatures between 40F and 120F, air, and, in some cases, security or protection from being disturbed.

Mold spores and a wood moisture content above just 20% are required for mold to start.

Some types of decay fungi can cause a 60% strength loss in wood in just four to six weeks.

Termites also are active only in moist wood.

The Fix

The most common fix for a humid crawlspace in dry climate areas is to add about one square foot of net free crawlspace vent area for every 150 sq.ft. of crawlspace area if no plastic is laid on the ground in the crawlspace. If plastic is laid in the crawlspace, you only need one square foot of net free crawlspace vent area for every 1,500 sq.ft. of crawlspace area.

Note that most crawlspace vents, also called brick vents, have only 60 to 75 sq.in. of free area, or about .5 sq.ft net free area each. Building codes may dictate the number of crawlspace vents installed in a house and whether they may be permanently sealed. Check with your local building department about code requirements.

In areas where there's very high outside humidity during the summer, ventilating the crawlspace can bring more moisture into the space than it removes.

Soil evaporation also can be a significant source of crawlspace moisture. In some areas, the water table is within three feet of ground level. With a 3-ft. water table, the ground can evaporate up to 12 gal. of water/day in a 1,000 sq.ft. crawlspace area. By adding 6 mil plastic overlapped at the seams, this is reduced to less than 1 gal./day in the same area.

Determining the Fix

Here's how to determine how much moisture is introduced into tile crawlspace of a 1,500 sq.ft. house with a three-foot-high crawlspace having a 4,500 cu.ft. volume during a 24-hour period. The average temperature in the crawlspace is 72F at 85% RH. Consider the following formula:

1) Exhaust air: Assume one air change/hr. (1 ACH).

Vcs*24/8.33*ACH/SV*AH = gal./day, or

4,500*24/8.33*-1/13.7*.0142 = -13.4 gal./day

Where:

*Vcs is crawlspace volume

*(24/8.33) is the hours in a day
divided by lbs. of water/gal.

(This converts lbs./hr. to gals./day.)

*ACH is air changes/hr.

*SV is the specific volume of the air.

*AH is the absolute humidity in lbs. of water/lb. of dry air.

The specific volume of the air and the absolute humidity can be plotted on a psychrometric chart. In order to got these values, you must measure the wet bulb and dry bulb temperatures in the crawlspace, then plot those values on the psychrometric chart. You'll have to take several readings and plot the averages. If your psychrometric chart shows absolute humidity in grains instead of decimal fractions of a pound, divide the grains of water by 7,000. This is because there are 7,000 grains of water/lb.

2) Makeup air: Assume outdoor air at 94F at 45% RH.

4,500*24/8.33*1/14.3*.0155 = 14.l gals./day

3) Soil evaporation: Assume 12 gals/1,000 sq.ft.

12*1.5 = 18 gals./day

So:

1) = -13.4 gallons per day

2) = + 14. 1 gallons per day

3) = + 18.0 gallons per day

Total change in crawlspace moisture is + 18.7 gals./day

As you can see, ventilation hasn't reduced moisture levels in the crawlspace; it's actually made it wetter. If fans are added, more air is moved into the crawlspace, and the added moisture increases the humidity.

If 6 mil. plastic is laid down in the crawlspace, ground evaporation is reduced to about .5 gals. or less/day/
1,000 sq.ft. of crawlspace. This assumes that the plastic has 100% coverage, with six to 12 inches of overlap at the seams. It's also helpful, in very humid areas, to turn the plastic up 12 to 18 inches at the foundation walls. This will reduce the moisture infiltration from outside air through the foundation wall. Be careful to protect the plastic from damage.

Pest control personnel, the cable TV installer, and the plumber can have reasons to be in the crawlspace. If they disturb the seams or tear the plastic, soil evaporation can rise again.

If the same process is used to determine how much water is added to a crawlspace with plastic ground cover, consider:

The amount exhausted stays the same: 1) = -13.4 gals./day

The amount from makeup air stays the same: 2) = + 14. 1 gals./day

The amount from soil evaporation is reduced: 3) = + 0.75 gals./day

Total change in crawlspace moisture= + 1.45 gals./day

By adding a vapor retarder to the ground in the crawlspace, the moisture added to the crawlspace is reduced by 13.5 gals. in our sample house. The 1.45 gals. of water remaining is equivalent to 5. 8 quarts or 11.6 pints of water per day, which can be removed by mechanical means.

A Mechanical Solution

Here's a better way to reduce damage to the wood in a damp crawlspace occurring in a high-humidity area.

Dig a hole in the lowest spot in your crawlspace and put a perforated 5 gal. bucket ( or sump) in it. Surround the bucket with gravel or septic drain field cloth.

Dig trenches in the crawlspace ground and lay slotted drainage pipes in them, pitched down to the sump pit. Cover the pipes with the soil you took out to make the trenches. Put a sump pump into the bucket and pipe the discharge line well away from the house. Do this step only if the ground in your crawlspace is damp or if there's condensate forming on the ducts or floor joists.

Lay plastic sheets in your crawlspace, covering the ground completely. This will reduce evaporation of water out of the ground. Use at least 6 mil plastic and overlap the joints by 12 inches.

Cover the bottom inside wall of the crawlspace as far up as possible. We've found that water sometimes condenses in the crawlspace above the plastic. You can make small holes in the plastic sheeting at the low points to allow the water to drain into the ground below. This won't add significantly to the evaporation problem.

Insulate all ducts in the crawlspace or replace them, making sure the new ones are sealed and well-insulated. Another option is to move the duct system to the attic, which may is the best solution because even insulated ducts can reduce the temperature in the crawlspace, raising the
relative humidity. Ducts can also sweat, adding water to the crawlspace. If you must have ducts in the crawlspace, add more insulation to them. Professor Barbara Griffin of Clemson University
recommends four inches of insulation to keep ducts from sweating in crawlspaces in South Carolina.

Sealing ducts helps because duct leakage in the crawlspace can cause pressure imbalances in the house and crawlspace. If the supply duct leaks, the house pressure becomes negative with respect to the crawlspace, and air can be pulled through cracks and other openings into the house. Return duct leaks move air in the opposite direction. In both cases, mold spores and other contaminants can be introduced to the house, affecting air quality in the living space.

Seal all openings, both new and existing, between the house and crawlspace. Air inflow is determined by pressure differential and hole size. If you make a hole, seal it. Unwanted air flow can have unknown side effects. Install vapor retarders between the living area and the crawlspace. Note that plastic and kraft paper are often called vapor barriers. They really don't stop the flow of moisture; they just slow it; therefore, it's more correct to call them vapor retarders.

Heat flows from areas of high temperature to areas of low temperature. Pressure flows from high intensity to low intensity. Moisture follows the same pattern. If there's high absolute humidity in the crawlspace and low absolute humidity in the living area, moisture will be drawn from the high humidity area into the low humidity area. The vapor retarder will not stop the flow; therefore, proper humidity control in the living area will help alleviate the problem.

Make sure the air conditioner is properly sized, as over-sized equipment contributes to poor humidity control. Make sure airflow is between 350 and 400 cfm/ton.

Too much airflow can leave too much humidity in the air. Make sure the indoor blower is left on Automatic. Continuous blower operation causes re-evaporation of air from the coil and condensate pan when the compressor shuts off.

Consider the use of a variable speed indoor blower. Most have enhanced humidity control modes that run the blower at a reduced speed for the first 5 to 10 minutes. This allows the indoor coil to get colder than normal, which enhances humidity removal.

Close or cover crawlspace vents. Install a dehumidifier in the crawlspace and run the drain outside, piped as far away from the house as practical. If you installed a sump pump in the crawlspace, drain it into the sump pit.

Make sure the condensate drain line from the air conditioner indoor unit doesn't drain into the crawlspace and that the drain line is kept clear. If the condensate drains into the crawlspace, a sump or condensate pump should bc installed.

In some cases, a new condensate drain line can be run with proper downward pitch all the way to the outside. The drain should terminate above grade outside so the line doesn't clog.

Make sure the dryer vent doesn't terminate in the crawlspace. Drying a load of clothes can produce 4 to 6 pints of water vapor. If the house uses a gas dryer, the products of combustion will add even more moisture to the space.

Plumbing leaks can be a major source of crawlspace moisture. They should be fixed as soon as possible because they can cause the wood to soften, making it easier for mold and rot to destroy. Make sure the relief valve and drain pan drain line from the water heater are piped outside or into the sump pit.

In humid areas, ventilating the crawlspace is only effective in the spring and fall when the absolute humidity of the air outside the crawlspace is lower than the absolute humidity of the air inside it. In coastal areas, that almost never happens in the summer.

As a general rule, if it's above 75F outside, there's more moisture in the outside air than in the 70 to 75F crawlspace air; therefore, if you ventilate the crawlspace, you're bringing more moisture into the crawlspace than you're removing. Anytime you drop the air temperature by 20 degrees, the relative humidity approximately doubles. When it gets to 95F outside and that air is brought into the 75F crawlspace, the relative humidity doubles. If it's 60% RH outside, the relative humidity in the crawlspace is at the dew point. At dew point conditions, water vapor turns back to liquid.

If exhaust fans are running in the crawlspace, you can also suck conditioned air out of the house into the crawlspace through cracks, making it colder in the crawlspace. This can increase condensation in the crawlspace, making the problem even worse.

If a fan must be used to ventilate the crawlspace, install it in the attic and blow hot attic air into the crawlspace. Making the crawlspace warmer drops the level of relative humidity because air can hold more moisture at higher temperatures. Doing this requires a space where a duct can run from the attic to the crawlspace. Make sure to install a fan and duct large enough to warm the entire crawlspace, remembering that this will increase the air conditioning load and power consumption slightly.

In one house under study by Clemson University, an attic-mounted fan was used to ventilate a basement and crawlspace, each under about half of the house. Operating the fan for four hours a day was enough to dissipate smells and excess moisture.Depending on conditions, 12 to 30 air changes/hr. of the crawlspace air were required. This is the only house that I am aware of that uses attic air to dehumidify a crawlspace, so this method is still experimental. You'll need to use trial-and-error to determine how to size the fan and how much to run it.

Try to avoid the use of toe space grilles in kitchens and bathrooms above the crawl space. When cold air is blown into the space between the floor and the cabinet base, the temperature of all the flooring under the cabinet drops to about the supply air temperature. I've been in a number of crawlspaces where the plywood under the cabinets was black and mushy from rot, and I've seen hardwood floors buckle next to toe space grilles.

Repairs to hardwood floors can get very expensive, especially if they need to be done every year. Icynene insulation can be sprayed on wood under toe space grilles in the crawlspace to stop condensation and seal the wood. Be sure to seal around the duct penetrating the floor to reduce unwanted air movement.

Not all solutions to crawlspace moisture problems are in the domain of the HVAC contractor. Proper construction of the house is very important to successfully eliminate crawlspace moisture problems. Remember that the house is a system: Everything has to work together properly in order to eliminate damp crawlspaces.

Add gutters and downspouts to your house to carry water away from the house. Divert the water from the downspouts as far away from your house as is practical. Putting oversized splash blocks at the bottom of the downspouts helps, but piping them at least 10 feet away is preferable.

Insulate your floor to reduce condensation on the wood. If you have trusses instead of floor joists, make sure the insulation is up against the floor docking. Using Icynene foam insulation is better than using fiberglas batts. If the insulation is at the bottom of the floor truss, gaps in the insulation allow moisture-laden air to get above the insulation to condense on the underside of the floor and drip on the insulation. Wet insulation rarely does any good.

The exception is expanded foam insulation. Icynene foam insulation can be sprayed on the underside of the floor facing the crawlspace, providing both insulation and a vapor barrier. It can also seal cracks between the house and the crawlspace, reducing unwanted airflow between the two areas.

The ground should slope away from the foundation of the house so water does not puddle near the foundation when it rains. If the water table is high, you may want to install a French drain, provided there is lower ground nearby where you can pipe away the water that was collected.

Make the crawlspace as high as possible, at least 18 inches high. Some studies show the minimum height should be 24 inches. If ducts or other obstructions to free air movement within the crawlspace are present, allow several inches above and below the duct for air circulation.

The ground level in the crawlspace should be higher than the ground outside. Problems occur when the crawlspace is lower than the exterior grade. Make sure the ground in the crawlspace is highest at the center so water drains toward the outer edges. If there is standing water in the crawlspace, refer to the sections of this article on sump pumps and dehumidifiers.

Be careful about hauling sand into a damp crawlspace because it reduces the height of the crawlspace. If the ground underneath is wet, fine sand tends to wick water to the top. Using pea gravel instead of sand allows the large spaces between pieces of gravel to break up the capillary action and reduce dampness in the top layers. Lay plastic on top of the gravel and pour lightweight concrete over the plastic. This will protect the plastic, which can be disturbed or damaged by people crawling over it during maintenance.

Conclusion

Ventilation, whether by natural draft or mechanical means, is only effective if the makeup air has a lower absolute humidity than the crawlspace air. In coastal and other humid areas, it's often more effective to use dehumidifiers and sump pumps to remove excess moisture from damp crawlspaces.

Much of the information for this article was provided by Dr. Craig DeWitt, the late Dr. Richard Spray, and Barbara Gniffin, retired, all of Clemson University. Dr. Dewitt can be reached at 864/656-1419 or by writing to Craig A. DeWitt, Ph.D., P.E., Clemson University, SC Institute for Energy Studies, Box 345180, 386-2 College Ave., Clemson, SC 29634-5180.

Kevin O'Neill is vice president of HVAC at Carolina Cooling & Plumbing, Inc., 1294 Surfside Industrial Park, Surfside Beach, SC 29575. He is a Certificate Member of RSES and has 23 years of industry experience. Call him at 843/238-5805.

 

 

7:44pm • #32

DJ... Great post....thanks to all who have contributed to this dialogue and to Kevin O'Neill. This is what a forum chat should be!

Steve Gladstone

8:02pm • #34
Just got back from a 4 day weekend.  Opened my emails and found a huge number of active rain new posts on this subject.  After reading through them all, I find I agree with everyone to some extent.  What a concept!  agreement among home inspectors!
9:22pm • #35
Thanks to everyone who has contributed their knowledge to this thread.  Special thanks to D.J. for your contribution.  This is the way to have a discussion, where civility rules.  Now: Somebody come back with some thoughts on what we may recommend in a case where a home has no central air or heat, is unlikely to get that upgrade in the near future, and has a crawlspace moisture problem.  Venting with vapor barrier and a continuous duty fan?  And maybe adding floor insulation?
9:30pm • #36
MAY
14
2007

I am personaly beginning if The wrong forum was clicked on,and somehow I ended up chatting with a group of scientists.

Damn you guys are good.

12:15am • #37
MAY
15
2007

Everbody,

This has been an excellent debate. I think we all won. Regional differences make the requirements important. Nowdays energy efficiency is of key importance. Tightening up houses, new construction is key to efficiency, but creates other challenges. Indoor air quality is at risk, proper ventilation and moisture control are of prime importance. So, you have to do what you have to do.

Alaska Don

1:06am • #38
MAY
18
2007

Im just glad I don't have to go under there.....

Ben

4:48pm • #39
Looks like my name got cut off on my previous post.   The one about home inspectors agreeing is the one.  I never like to do anonymous posts on any board.  Benjamin, I have had clients follow me around in crawl spaces.  You should try it some time.  It can be an education and will give you a oneup on other mortgage brokers!
6:49pm • #40
What??!!?? Home Inspectors agreeing?  LOL!! David, only to a certain degree!  I think we did pretty good with this one, though!
8:41pm • #41
JUN
13
2007

Jimmy ~ we live in Bend. Dry with warm summers and cold winters. The sand tends to wick the moisture away.

 

G.

11:42pm • #42
JUN
14
2007

Glenda,

I'm not sure where Bend is, but it sounds like you have a climate with very low relative humidity.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are not a lot of homes in your area with louvered vents that can be opened and closed at will.  What I should have done, in my original post, was make it clearer the specific climate type and home type I had in mind, though I thought I had done that.  As it is, I inadvertently invited comments contrary to my advice.  And it was a good discussion.  Lots of good presentations and advice from all corners.

1:13am • #43
JUN
19
2007
Jimmy, i think that you have hit on a good topic to talk about. What i have learned from "Crawl Space Science",  hands on problem solving & on going inspections is that having vents on a home is really BAD in most climates. Ideally, having air flow across the earth to help keep it dry makes perfect since. The truth is that having foundation vents does the opposite of what they we're designed to do. No matter what time of year hot or cold the air flowing into the crawl space is mixing with the conditioning of the homes heating & air condition. When hot & cold air mix it changes the relative humidity & that turns into rain or in a crawl space you get condensation on everything within the crawl. Basicly, by having vents on a home will cause more rot, mold & termite problems. Here is another link source to do some reserch with.  www.basementsystems.com Sincerely,
12:47am • #44
JUN
20
2007

Yes Jimmy we do have the louvered vents and most only work the first couple of years and then off to purchase plugs. *Removing the plugs in warmer months is very important.

 G.

12:39pm • #45
JUL
12
2007
188,298 Points 2 Featured Posts

Well, I can't contribute more than is already said above, but did have this recent experience (???) to share visual examples.

30 plus year old house
no vapor barrier
no vents
poor drainage
BIG PROBLEMS!

kentucky home inspector mold joists crawl space

Moldy Joists

 

kentucky home inspector rotted joists

Sagging girder/beam

kentucky home inspector rotted joists & termites

Rotted rim joist, termites, mold

kentucky home inspector see the wet crawl space

Wet valley.  See the peak at bottom right.  Leakage from waste pipe above.

kentucky home inspector mold in crawl space joists

More mold, rot, and termites

kentucky home inspector mold joists termites

More rot & mold.

Enjjoy!

 

3:31pm • #46
WOW! Looks like the one I did last April. The only thing missing is the "high tide" water stain marks on the foundation walls from when the water pours in from the vent wells!
4:25pm • #47
oops, forgot to sign it.
Bruce Pinel
4:27pm • #48
Erby, those are the best proof of the need for proper crawlspace management, whether it be conditioned space or proper venting.
6:28pm • #49
Erby,I would love to see a few closeups of the termites if you have them.
7:22pm • #50
JUL
13
2007
188,298 Points 2 Featured Posts

Only a couple.  I don't spend much time on bugs.

 

Kentucky Home Inspector Termites

Look at the wet spot!

Kentucky Home Inspector termites 

If you're going to use macro, put your camera straight on to the wall instead of an angle.  Mine focused just a little to the right of the termites so they are kind of fuzzy on the left edge of the focused area.

8:20pm • #51
JUL
14
2007

Thanks for the pics and the input, Erby.  I just inspected another one of those Mississippi Delta homes with crawlspace over gumbo mud soil today.  For those who aren't familiar with the particular soil condition, it's a smorgasborg of everything that has washed down the Big River for millennia.  Silt, loess soil, dark clays, making up a topsoil 12-20 feet thick.  Highly permeable, it soaks up water like a sponge and releases it as steam on a hot summer day!  A vapor barrier is an absolute must for homes in that area, and I've yet to see one over there without one---and yet, because of the particular qualities of the soil, you can still have a moisture problem big-time if you don't keep it vented.  Bear in mind that the Delta is still a very economically depressed area.  Many, many homes don't have central air, and homeowners can't afford the installation of that, much less creating a sealed crawl space.  One solution that seems to be unique to the area is installing a continuous duty fan in the access door, and switching it from a location inside.  This way, during rainy periods, they can be switched off to avoid pulling in saturated air.  Relative humidity is still a problem most of the rest of the time here, but keeping the air moving does a pretty good job.

BTW----This has absolutely nothing to do with crawlspaces, but has anyone noticed that, when you use spellcheck here, it always calls it to your attention when you fail to capitalize "realtor"?  Apparently, it's ok not to capitalize "home inspector."  Does this tell us something?  :-)

12:56am • #52
JUL
15
2007
188,298 Points 2 Featured Posts

Yes, it tells me Realtor is trade marked / registered (whatever) and Home Inspector is not!

 Bet you're enjoying this steamy weather??

3:53am • #53
534,480 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master
Thanks for the good reading and information. Never know what we are going to find when we go into a crawlspace. I haven't seen any yet that have been closed but may if electric bills continue to rise.
9:48pm • #54
DEC
29
2010
534,480 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Hello there Jimmy

How are things going there in Coldwater? Here's to you having a good new year.

C&C

12:55pm • #55
DEC
30
2010
534,480 Points 2 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Called Shot Master

Hi Jimmy

Wanted to stop back by to say, that we hope you have a safe and Happy New Year's weekend.

C&C

1:40am • #56

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Jimmy Breazeale

Coldwater, MS

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Sherlock Home Inspections

Cell Phone: (662) 417-3194

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Informative narratives on many subjects, from home maintenance tips to issues of common concern to home inspectors and real estate agents.


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