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What if I just stop paying NAR?

I am so irritated right now that I can hardly contain myself. I have had about as much as I can stand from NAR and the other Realtor organizations that I belong to. Honestly, besides all the platitudes they give about why it is so wonderful for us to be Realtors. What is the real benefit? Just because you take the Ethics class and pay 500+ dollars a year doesn't mean we get value from it. I would rather take that money and spend it on direct mail. You want to know who protects the public from bad Real Estate agents? The Real Estate Commission. Erin Toll does a fine job of weeding out the chumps and those that prey on the innocent. Some people are not fans of her, but I know that you don't want to be the one in her sights when you do wrong.

Here is what spurred this thought, I just read an article NAR nonsense article about how they support this stimulus fiasco. Just because the white house throws real estate agents a couple of bones doesn't mean it is a good idea. This isn't a democrat or republican thing, this is a common sense thing. If you don't have money, you can't spend it. You have to cut spending at some point, not increase it. When does it end? Do we need to be bankrupt as a country before anyone cares? We are treading on such scary ground at this point I am lost for words.

I am sure some of you will probably tear me up for touching our precious Realtor designation, but I am not convinced I am getting any value for my money and they have made it so that it is difficult to do business without it. I definitely would appreciate responses that follow the argument if you do not like what I am saying. I am asking question that many of us have already asked so give it some thought before you react. I have paid my dues for this year and I do have the designation, just want to know how I am getting my moneys worth. I wonder how much of our money goes to NAR fooling around with politics in DC?

All the best,

Steven Wright
Real Estate Agent in Denver, Colorado
"Short Sales Expert"
720-989-5283
stevensellsco@gmail.com
www.stevensellsco.com

Steven Wright
Realtor
Home Real Estate- Denver, CO
720-989-5283
stevensellsco@gmail.com

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Posted by Steven Wright CRS~ Home Real Estate720-989-5283 on 02/25/2009 05:27 PM

Comments (124)

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124 Comments on What if I just stop paying NAR?

FEB

2009

Brother, you ain't gettin didley. Neither am I.

well buddy - i'm with you. NAR's president was voted one of the 25 most responsible for our current economic collapse. Dont worry, it wont be long before we will no longer NEED NAR.

Hi Steven. I believe belong to NAR is an option and not a requirement unless your brokerage imposes it. I haven't really researched it but I believe there are real estate salespersons who are not Realtors.

I am disappointed in the lobbying efforts of NAR. Yes, we do pay for lobbying efforts. You would think the nations largest trade organization could leverage some power.

NAR needs to have a plan in place that we can actually support! I receive bulletins from then asking me to forward to Congress - that can be very powerful - but Realtors do not forward them because we do not agree with the NAR position.

I imagine that NAR has statistics about their campaigns, but they probably say we are appathetic... when in reality 'we Disagree with the patform'.

The housing and stimulus packages are not designed to actually stimulate the housing market. We know it is complicated but doing the Right thing is not as easy as just being 'sweet' to your constituents. No tough Love around the DC area.

To belong to my local MLS I MUST be a Realtor...which means I must be a member of NAR. For me the value is the MLS.

Well it is good to know that there are others who agree with me. I am fed up and I think we should start a campaign to stop paying them until they get it straight. We still have to think about the big picture as a country, not just Real Estate.

Great, What a racket they have there Simon. Not only do you get to pay MLS dues monthly and so on, you get to pay the huge price to NAR every year. This is what I am talking about.

Hello Steven,

You've made some valid points, and have every reason to be pissed with NAR! I don't see any real value they provide either but hey.....it's their world, I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut. You're right again about NAR making it difficult to do business with their designation and right you are again, if we are unethical as Realtors there's no doubt that the Real Estate Commission will step in and do what's necessary.

As for the NAR's role in Washington I'm really not sure how strong their presence is in Washington or exactly to what lengths they fight for 'REALTORS RIGHTS' as a whole.

Interesting topic, and I would love to see what type of feedback you get.

All the best to you!

Adell

They will continue to send you propaganda to your inbox and won't remove you from the local board site. I told them how ashamed I was of them and to please cancel my membership when they sent that e-mail, begging me to call my reps to pass the bail out bill.

Adell, you are funny and awesome. Thanks for your honesty. If anything maybe we can all send them a message that we are not appathetic and money is tight so tell us what we are getting besides high paid execs.

Steven,

I still believe being a Realtor means something to many and I know it does to me. I will keep paying my dues and keep trying to make a difference!

Jessica, they are shameless and they need to be sent a clear message. Unbelievable.

Mike, what is the benefit you are receiving? This is the real question. Most of my clients can care less if I have the designation and I have never been asked for it. I need to know what I am getting for the large sums of money we are giving.

This isn't a democrat or republican thing, this is a common sense thing. If you don't have money, you can't spend it. You have to cut spending at some point, not increase it.

Hi Steven,

You're right. It's sad to watch what is happening to America. I wish we had politicians with the common sense, and the backbone, to stop the spending.

Amen to that. First we could start by requiring politicians to actually have held a real job in the private sector somewhere. That would be a good start. I am done with all the lawyers running this country.

Steven,

You make some good points. Let's add it up. First there are the NAR dues. Then there are the designation dues from ABR, CRS, SRES. Then I am RE/MAX - dues. Then there are the MLS dues and the IDX charge.

Isn't self-employment wonderful? WAIT, I forgot to add the health insurance and the liability insurance.

I have started my own email/letter writing campaign to my representatives. Since Delaware is so small it doesn't take long. Lately I've been hammering on the REFI issues: is it just in Delaware that a homeowner cannot refi if their home has been on the market within the last 6 months? Whose rule is that?

Steven...

If you don't mind..I'm going to park and follow the comment stream. Hot topic indeed :)

TLW...ROAR!

Unbelievable Kathy. Hey we don't matter were are just Real Estate agents, nickel and dime us to death I am sure we can take it. NAR, show me the value for my dollar. I can't believe you supported such horrible legislation.

I don't mind at all "Lovely Wife" :-), park away. I am interested to see what the consensus is on this topic. Looks like a lot of us have some good questions for NAR.

Steven,

WOW! Great Post! Great comments! Most seem to agree with YOU! I also agree with you, however, to be an MLS member I am forced to belong to my local Board and FAR (Florida) and NAR. I detest the requests for pac money every year when we pay our FAR dues......they add it on and you have to opt out. NAR IS GOING TOO FAR........ I was a member in the 80's and then dropped out in the 90's when I worked for developers and a non-MLS commercial broker. Believe me, my CODE OF ETHICS was and is far stronger than some of the agents who wear the REALTOR pin on their shoulder. It is widely implied in my area that if you are not a REALTOR YOU DO NOT practice certain eithics. My reputation speaks for itself and I don't need NAR for that. I think most of us grin and bear it! It is hard enough to do business these days. Thanks again for the post and GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!

Diane Lombardino, Realtor (like it or not)

www.findWOWproperties.com

Diane

Steven-

As a fellow Wright, I completely agree with you. It seems like all we do is pay annually to call ourselves Realtors versus real estate agent or salespeople. They own the word and we pay yearly to use it. The average customer has no idea that there is a differnence, they use the terms interchangeably. And quite frankly I'm not sure there's a difference either.

Diane, I am sure you are a fine agent and if you were not eventually you would be found out in 1 way or another. I wish you a very prosperous 2009 and to everyone else. Lets demand that NAR be accountable for their actions.

Michael, you are correct. If you polled the average person they don't know the difference at all. It appears that NAR has quite the racket going. We don't have a lot of choice.

Steven,

I have felt the same way for quite awhile. Since you are letting the TLW park, you wont mind if I follow also.

Ann, Park away and lets get some dialogue going. What can NAR do anyway? Make me pay dues every year.

I see absolutely no value in NAR. I think if they went away, it would make NO difference in my professional life. For that matter, I think MLSs will become increasingly irrelvant in the future. Just wait until there is an "open souce" or low-cost way that will house all listings - fsbo, broker, etc.

The innovative and value added folks will thrive.

Chris, Preach it. They will not have a strangle hold on us forever. I love Open Source options. We will still have to be top notch professionals in our field. We will always have clients since most people do not have the level of education that we must have to conduct business. Great comments.

Wow, Steven. That's quite a powerful post you wrote. I'm interested to see what other agents have to say as well. This is likely to spark quite a debate.

Steven, from 1994 until 2003 I was a Realtor and a paying member of NAR. When I returned to the business in 2006 I went to work for a company that has 4 offices that are NOT NAR affiliated and one that IS NAR affiliated. I hang my license at the NOT office. I still have to abide by the Code of Ethics per my contract with my brokerage.

My business hasn't been effected by not being a member and when I explain it to clients that I am not a Realtor they just laugh and think we are sillier than we are!

I do believe that "lobby" organizations are good for business and I know that there has been good implementations based on this organization I just think they have lost their way the last couple of years.

Steven,

When I taught in public schools, we had the option of belonging to the union or not. However, the collective bargaining agreement stated that if you chose not to be a union member, an amount equal to union dues would be withheld from your check to help pay for PAC's and collective bargaining, because even non-members benefited from negotiated contracts. Though I rarely agreed with the union positions, I opted form membership since I had to pay for it anyway. I did not believe it was a battle I could win.

As in Simon Mills' case, if we work with a company that is a member of the MLS, the company must have 100% membership. There are a couple of successful local real estate agents who are not Realtors, not members of the MLS, and have been in business for many years.

Since I like working for the company I am with, all the dues are part of the cost of doing business. While I understand your dissatisfaction with the perceived lack of benefit in NAR membership, I don't have any serious suggestion of how to improve the situation. From the other comments, it is obvious that some percentage of the members are dissatisfied and feel NAR does not truly represent their political or economic interests. Are there any suggestions for an organized effort to effect positive change?

I couldn't agree more. Thought I was crazy. Glad to know it's not just me feeling like this!!!

Great point . . . I've serious issues with NAR beyond what you have raised, and have been toying with a post on the subject, but delayed knowing it would likely stir up some very negative commentary. Kudos to you for having the courage to go ahead and say it!

My membership is a broker requirement. Nuff said. I have never paid the voluntary PAC contribution part of my membership dues (personally I think lobbying is a big part of what's wrong with Washington and want no part of it!). I've never been to a local board meeting, never been asked if I am A "REALTOR" member, and never raised this a "selling point" with a consumer. I don't think most of them care, or are aware of the "significance". So, yeah, COE is about the extent of it . . . and I already have one of those that cost me nothing.

I think we should all do as you have suggested and seriously consider the benefits of membership, and what we would like for them to be. Perhaps a consensus on how the organization could improve would actually lead to change . . .

I have to be a Realtor to belong to the MLS unless I go out on my own, which requires passing the broker's exam and a whole heck of a lot of money to set up my own brokerage. In order to be a Realtor, I have to belong to NAR. I knew all of this going in, so to me it's just a cost of doing business. If I didn't agree significantly with what NAR did, then I see myself as having five options:

Quit
Run for an NAR office to try to change things from within the system
Become an attorney since attorneys, by education, are qualified as real estate agents and can belong to the MLS
Pass the broker's exam, set up my own company, quit being a Realtor and just be a real estate agent
Write my SDAR, CAR, and NAR representatives each month about my concerns and offering my own solutions or the solutions developed by others with which I agree.

I currently practice #5.

This is nothing new. But what's interesting is to see them advancing their stronghold into social media. Who knows what's coming next.

If I didn't have to be a Realtor to have access to the MLS, I am sure that I would have stopped paying long ago. It's not an option here.

Steven 82% of MLS's require NAR membership in order to participate in the MLS. You need to see what your brokerage and MLS rules are. I am not a member and haven't been for two years, since my MLS does not require it.

The benefit for me is the MLS. I think as an orginization gets bigger and politcs are involved, the benefit to the members suffers. I like Ray, don't know what I would suggest to improve it.

I actually support parts of the stimulus plan. We don't know what will work unless we try.

Stephen - Bravo! They have us all in a full Nelson. If you don't "belong" you don't get access to the MLS. As far as I'm concerned, they could pretty much do away with all of the local and national boards. The magazines are a waste of trees and I'm tired of paying the dues in exchange for virtually no service. I'd like to see the whole MLS system privatized. Ralph

Steve,

As we shared on email, I 100% agree.

Regrettably, NAR is more of a confederation than an association. Confederations are groups of loosely affiliated people with often competing interests, while Associations are groups of folks with greater focus and more singularity of purpose.

The best analogy is that a confederation is like a baseball league, while an association is more like a baseball team. The former have some coincidental and some deliberate common interests, while the latter has a singularity of purpose (i.e., beating the other teams). Given this, it's unlikely changing NAR/CAR (Colorado Association) nor the local association is practical.

In confederations, leadership is sacrificed in lieu of consensus, in associations the opposite is true. As I often say, "Leadership breaks chains that bind; consensus abdicates to the weakest link."

So, how do you change that? You don't. YOu have to choose to belong or not. I mentally struggled with staying a Realtor® this year. Frankly, the public doesn't know/care about the difference. Hell, they often don't even pronounce it right...always saying "RE-LA-TOR". So, if they don't care about the pronunciation, they likely don't care about the association.

I am proud of being a Realtor®, however, I am increasingly embarrassed about how comprehensively weak and ineffective the leadership is. I am gauging whether or not I am too embarrassed to have my name, strong brand, and personal profile associated with such a weak, ineffective organization. 2010 will be a water shed year for me.

Why do I say that? Well, here are three items that merit NAR's immediate attention, which are unaddressed and, worse yet, are the source of NAR's comprehensive incuriosity:

Non-licensed brokers reporting (misreporting) real estate data for their own purposes.
- Specifically, RealtyTrac misreporting foreclosures in Colorado - and I am told in other states - by meaningful amounts. In Colorado, the misreporting is in error by 58% in 2007 and 142% in 2008.
- That level of misreporting - if damaging values by $10k per home - is worth $21 BILLION in lost equity in Colorado, and $1.3 TRILLION if a nationwide problem.
Creating/advancing a national MLS that allows practitioners to work across an entire state. We have 4 MLS's at least just along the Front Range of COlorado, and I believe about 10 MLSs statewide. Silly, when we have a license to practice in an ENTIRE state.
Taking a stronger position with banks:
- Working through Real Estate/Banking Commissions to ensure ANYONE working with client is licensed (with oversight) by a state agency. In Colorado, Mortgage Brokers are licensed, while those employed at lenders are not, and are not required to be licensed. It seems an employee can do just as much damage as an unlicensed mortgage broker.
- Creating a national process for short sales. Putting a database together of banks and ranking their "ease of interaction" for Realtors. This puts pressure on banks to get their acts together rather than act like abusive bullies, who bully our clients and our members...the emotional remnants of which we are left to console.

Just my $500 of input.

Steve,

As we shared on email, I 100% agree.

In confederations, leadership is sacrificed in lieu of consensus, in associations the opposite is true. As I often say, "Leadership breaks chains that bind; consensus abdicates to the weakest link."

Why do I say that? Well, here are three items that merit NAR's immediate attention, which are unaddressed and, worse yet, are the source of NAR's comprehensive incuriosity:

Non-licensed brokers reporting (misreporting) real estate data for their own purposes.
- Specifically, RealtyTrac misreporting foreclosures in Colorado - and I am told in other states - by meaningful amounts. In Colorado, the misreporting is in error by 58% in 2007 and 142% in 2008.
- That level of misreporting - if damaging values by $10k per home - is worth $21 BILLION in lost equity in Colorado, and $1.3 TRILLION if a nationwide problem.
Creating/advancing a national MLS that allows practitioners to work across an entire state. We have 4 MLS's at least just along the Front Range of COlorado, and I believe about 10 MLSs statewide. Silly, when we have a license to practice in an ENTIRE state.
Taking a stronger position with banks:
- Working through Real Estate/Banking Commissions to ensure ANYONE working with client is licensed (with oversight) by a state agency. In Colorado, Mortgage Brokers are licensed, while those employed at lenders are not, and are not required to be licensed. It seems an employee can do just as much damage as an unlicensed mortgage broker.
- Creating a national process for short sales. Putting a database together of banks and ranking their "ease of interaction" for Realtors. This puts pressure on banks to get their acts together rather than act like abusive bullies, who bully our clients and our members...the emotional remnants of which we are left to console.

Just my $500 of input.

Other than using their NAR form and MLS service, I don't feel any value of being a "Realtor".

The setup fee and other fee is too high

I'm ethical because I'm ethical, not because I belong to NAR. My MLS board also requires that I be a Realtor to post listings. It's a convoluted network of protectionism all around, as far as I'm concerned. I think the cost of being a Realtor could be reduced proportionally by closing some of the regional/state level offices. In the Triad portion of North Carolina, we have the Greensboro Board of Realtors, the High Point Board and the Winston-Salem Board. All three Boards share the same MLS! In High Point, we have this nice big brick building which maintains a primary staff of three. Now I would hate to lose my local board, but we really don't need three separate offices!

Real Estate isn't fat anymore and they (NAR) needs to tighten their own belts--and stop picking Real Estate Agents pockets!

Thank you for having the courage to post this!

I've always felt that NAR and local boards are our version of labor unions. I don't WANT to belong to a union, but must belong to do business. Hmmmmm...........Part of my monthly board dues automatically go to the PAC. Even if I DON't agree! I like Trent Cluley's last paragraph -

You have no choice up here because of the MLS.

Steven,

You are preaching to the choir! I feel the same way you do, but I haven't looked at it in terms of NAR. I want to know what we are really getting out of it.

Someone mentioned the access to the MLS. In my area, I still have to pay separate MLS dues, in the tune of about $650.00 annually.

With so many of us professionally unemployed due to the current financial market, I would like to know if they ever consider some form of benefits (i.e unemployment for the self employed) to agents who may be facing hard times. Every year we are forced to pay Tom, Dick, Harry and their mother's yet we get no support from these organizations who claim to care about keeping us in the industry.

These days we need value for dollar, not broken promises. Just my thought!

Michael...

I for one enjoyed your $500 worth of input :)

TLW...ROAR!

Steven,

We give and give.....eventually there will be no more.....for anyone.

Steven - Here's the bottom line about NAR and the real estate profession:

1) The real estate industry is disintegrating as we write. The old-style brokerages in my market are contracting (or going out of business). The costs of doing business are simply too high. Agents are saying the same thing about brokerages as they are about NAR: "what value-added is my brokerage bringing to my business?"

2) NAR has a huge resource potential. If you go to the website NAR has volumes of practical information for realtors. Some of the statistical information is quite good. But, here's were the value-added ends for most of us.

3) NAR seems to be 10 steps behind the power curve with regard to its economic forecasts (they need a new economist) and who knows what really happens through their lobbying efforts? Politically, I don't know what value their lobbying has. I'm a died-in-the-wool liberal and I can't even figure out if NAR actually had any influence on Congress with regard to the stimulus package for or against. NAR seems to pump out the same old cliches year after year.

4) The bottom line is one either finds value in NAR or one should leave the Association. Or, perhaps, members should do what the consumers have done to our commissions: lower the cost unless they can prove more value. Perhaps NAR would be more responsive if they were faced with possibility of loosing both members and funding. (just a thought).

Good, thought provoking post. Thanks

I am very much encouraged by all of your responses. It is good to know that more than 90 percent of you agree with me. I hope that everyone on Active Rain comments and then we can really send them a message that they need to be accountable to us.

I have some frustration as many in this thread. But I have to be in the Association for MLS access, and NYSAR just successfully lobbied for the Commission Escrow Act here in NY, which was badly needed and signed into law recently. I think NAR has also been instrumental in keeping banks out of the real estate business, which to me is crucial.

Steven: I echo almost everything that has been said in your post and the very interesting comments. I too, applaud you for having the courage to write this post. I can't think of anything to add that hasn't already been said, other than my absolute affirmation of your post.

Steven, to be a member of my MLS, I must join our local REALTOR group, which means I must join PAR, which means I must join NAR.

Now as a broker, I don't HAVE to join and be a realtor (well, I do, as a franchisee of Realty Executives), but that's beside the point.

I want MLS access. I honestly think our local Realtor association is not worth the fees. PAR... yes I do see value in the state-wide group. NAR... no.

Why must we pay these outrageous dues to join a group that makes us "ethical"? In my area, I swear being a "realtor" does not make you ethical. The ethical code we swear to is a joke.

The lobbying... that's what we're paying for. And the "optional" contribution the want us to make to RPAC... not for me. I never contribute. I send money to the candidates I support, not the group and let them distribute my money.

Steve - What a great post. I'm going to have to park here like some of the others.

Hi, Steve could not agree more. We need MLS and control on how agents do business. NAR, No I don't see the point never have. But what can you do, you can not do business without it. Not any more. Paula Blessing, aiken properties, inc.

I would like NAR to explain to Congress and the President where the logjam in the real estate market really is. SHORTSALES! I have stressed this time and time again. If NAR could convince Congress that part of the TARP money they are dispensing to the banks would HAVE to be used to staff up their loss mitigation departments and streamline the short sale process to a 15 day approval period we would see the market pick up. There are buyers out there, but with 50% of the homes on the market in our area being short sales, many buyers are not willing or able to wait for the bank' approval. The banks would save themselves a lot of money if they could keep these buyers from walking, and it would help to start to stabilize prices. Good post. Best of luck.

Evening Steven, Some time back I sent an email to my local board, my state assoc, and to NAR asking them to share our pain and do whatever it took to reduce our dues by 50 % ! Guess how many of them cared enough to reply ?

Steven - good points but we gotta move beyond what has already been approved for the good of our nation......even though we/you may vehemently disagree. It's not even a NAR thing. Your best bet is simply to think of running for office in Aurora or even the Congressional District.

Anyway, I understand hear you, but too many folks "go on strike" AFTER the deal is done!!!!!!!

Cheers

I think the NAR works for us night and day. I am not very political and don't have time to call my representatives with my views even though I have some. I pay NAR and ARPAC to do my lobbying for me and trust them to do the best they can to make the life of us as Realtors more profitable. I do think the organization is worth the money.

What happens when they support causes that none of use agree on.We are leaving it to the NAR leaders, they could be democrats or republicans, who knows. They are based in Chicago so I am going to go out on a limb and say that they are in Obama's back pocket. They supported the most ungodly, ridiculous, insane bill ever to hit congress and the told us all to support it to. I told them to KICK ROCKS!!!!!!!!! The empty suits in NAR don't tell me how to vote. I will vote for the good of the whole country, not just my pocket book like the chumps and losers in congress.

I'm curious as to how many of you would be in the business today if it weren't for NAR. We just went through a two year battle in congress to keep the banks from becoming the real estate agents of today. Does anyone remember that? If NAR hadn't fought the banks off then, you wouldn't be working and the economy would be in even worse shape than it is today. It's easy to forget the positive when you are frustrated. But more people need to think things through before they climb up on the soapbox.

Dude...grand slam here. I hate these types that have become all about aristocracy and social status. Do something to serve your people is what NAR should do...otherwise, it should close its doors.

I don't contribute to any pacs at all... That part of dues is volunteery. The organization position does not mean you endorse it. I do write my congressman and senators with my own opinion.

Interesting discussion!

I consider it at this point a cost of doing business, because I have to be a NAR member to touch my local MLS and that is crucial to my business. Where I feel nailed is I've got the city level Board of Realtors, the state level Board, then the National Board! I always opt out of the RPAC, but it's still a significant cost and of course at my slowest time of year.

So for me the value is in the MLS (and the Lowe's coupons I get in the Realtor magazine!)

In my opinion NAR falled us miserably per the Stimulus Bill. And then sending us an email telling us the great job they did was both an insult and a joke.

In the past few years they also screwed up VOWs. From day 1 their definition of a VOW was a joke and was inviting an inquiry from DOJ.

Lastly in the press recently the past economist at NAR has admitted how he scewed housing data so that it always looked like the real estate market was great.

We as Realtors need an organization such as NAR. There are too many of us not to have some representation. However the current leadership at NAR should be replaced by folks who really had our best nterests at heart.

Is definitely a great topic and a hot topic. I guess like every other entity and lobbying group, everyone puts their spin on things. I agree that our benefit from NAR has been below par especially now with all the bad publicity over the years. I am not sure what the solution is ... NAR cannot change the policies... is a tough one. I wish the tax credit would have been availabe to ALL buyers. I do think NAR's stance should have been stronger afterwards but I guess they wanted to be politically correct ?

Hey David, that was shot down based on RESPA issues also. Do you really think that they would actually let banks become real estate brokerage also. Come on man. It appears that you are in the minority in a significant way.

Some have it wrong, the 9th circuit in 82 rules that NAR or local MLS could not make it mandatory to be a Realtor in order to me a member of MLS. The reason MLS is a non profit operated by boards all over the country. Google Thompson Brokers, a realtor by that name sued and won. The boards will not tell you but they are suppose to if you ask. Good Luck.

Steven, I have just started deleting the weekly e-mails I get from them because they have backed this "Stimulus" crap right from the beginning. I have to be a member in order to get MLS access like many of the AR members who have commented. It's crap, and I'm glad you called it.

I don't have to be a Realtor member to access the MLS. I guess it is different in different areas. As much as I respect the national organization, there is more than a little room for improvement. That said we have to hold ourselves accountable for what the organization is and is not. Having attended meetings at the national headquarters I know that leadership is open and interested in member feedback and input.

As to the stimulus bill and other incomplete information given by NAR; I'm as mad as you are.

I have been thanking the same thing since 1988,,,21 years of dues,,as far as ethics I have them way before getting into realestate, Belonging to something does not make one obey ethics,,,you either have them or dont,,if I could belong to the MLS without belonging to the REALTORS assco,,, i WOULD,,,,,,GREAT POST,,,,,

Steve-AMEN!! When are we Realtors going to wise up. I also, paid my dues on time. I was mad about the staggering increase. I am a Realtor in Michigan, our county has 46 % homes in foreclosure or in the process of short sale. What has Nars done, nothing not a ad in our local paper or local T.V. It is another way of someone getting a piece of the pie that has turned into crumbs

Steven...I have read few of the posts...I can probably add one very important thing:

BAD POLITICIANS ARE ELECTED BY GOOD CITIZENS WHO DO NOT VOTE!!!

We need to do something about it, don't we?

With smiles,

When I got my license, I didn't have extra money to join NAR. Since it's not required here, I thought I would just join later. But, frankly I don't see any downside to not joining and both Washington state law and our MLS have very high ethical standards. I'm glad I didn't throw away my money and I'm glad to hear that others feel the same way.

Brave post! Thank you Steven!

Erika

Steven, I hear you and am also a Colorado Realtor. I believe we do have to belong to NAR and CAR to be part of our local board. In terms of national support I don't feel knowledgeable enough to give an opinion however I do agree that all I can do is take a stand and do my best to make a change in a new direction.

Not impressed by a lot of it. I belong to NAR because I have to to belong to CAR. The cost for our forms is part of CAR, and it's more expensive to buy the forms than CAR membership, plus it comse with an attorney hotline.

We don't have to belong to NAR to use MLS. But if I don't than I will have to go to one of the discount agencies which I don't want to do. I was never happy paying my dues. I don't honestly know what they do for us. What do they do for us? Wait I know they put a pacifier in our mouth.

Do you think if we all got together we could do something about it?

Locally we disbanded our BOR in 1995 and retained the MLS. There are local companies that choose to join boards in other towns so they could continue to be Realtors. I'm perfectly happy to be a company who does not belong to one. I practice ethically because my parents taught me good manners and my Christian faith taught me to treat others as I wish to be treated. And I can tell you more than one agent has come to my office to avoid paying those fees. I saw no real benefit and whoever commented about the public not knowing the difference, they are dead on.

Steven

You have every right to feel as you do since you are an American. That's what our freedom is all about.....the ability to express your opinions.

Don't Ever feel like you have to bow down to the NAR or anyone else for that matter.

As for your reasoning, I am sure their are many, including me, who agree with your sentiments.

Now go kick some booty and close some sales!

Best Wishes

Wayne

FEB

2009

I am shocked to see that there are states that require you to belong to NAR to use MLS. I am hopping there is an attorney here who could answer this question. Is it legal? I feel like there are like mafia controling those markets (states)

Steve,

You and I linked to Mr. Sena's short sale blog(I just wanted to mention that in case you did not know).

Anyways,

As a member of CAR(California Association of Realtors) that I'm flat out highly upset with them as I had some issues that needed to be dealt with and lets put it midly I was on the losing side of a decision they made, so let alone NAR.

However with that said and done I do know that legislative advocacy would be counted on by us(Realtors). They do have a loud voice when speaking to Washinton on our behalf.

Well, the cost of doing buisness in real estate is suprising and does not seem to be optional. I can't say I have any benefit that I'm aware of from NAR, but I do like to think that they are working on our behalf in all aspects of our daily work and laws to protect our business. Let's hope that is the case.

Being an agent here in Manhattan we are not members of NAR, so maybe you could move to New York City and that would fix your problem?

Morgan, I will keep that in mind. It seems that out of 84 responses so far 95 percent of us have an issue with NAR. I wonder if they will take this little focus group and do some self examining. Or ban me from the cool club for criticizing them.

I too am not impressed by the NAR. If I was not required (which I believe to be wrong) to be a member to get local MLS access. I'm not sure I would pay the fees and I still might stop. I don't see the value for my money.

I'm sure most of us have felt the same frustration with the NAR at some point that has caused us to really question whether we should continue to pay those dues!

You make a good point, one that was made by many Realtors in the late 1980's in Denver, the last time money was hard to come by. For the money, what do we get? Disclaimer, I am involved in and support the trade association. Which is not to say I agree with all that NAR does or does not do. So, I will ask this question of you and all the commentators: are you making demands of your elected leadership? Do you know your elected leadership? What would you really like from the trade association? I do not like writing a check to NAR either, especially in this economy, but I am making an attempt to get a return for my investment. Sniping from the sidelines is easy, effecting change is not easy.

So, since you wrote the check, pick up the phone and rant at one of your local board directors. But, before you rant, figure out what you want. Then ask for it. Get your Realtor friends to ask for it. Repeat often.

Like most large representative bodies, things at NAR move slowly. But changes can come very fast if enough people demand change from those who lead.

Larry, you pose a good point and I appreciate it. Unfortunately the leadership knows best in their own eyes and shoved it down are throat. I will continue to protest the organization and when I am not penalized any longer for declining to pay my dues, I will stop paying.

Larry:

I believe your comments incorrectly link the downturn to questioning the value of NAR. I believe Steven's point was about the stimulus, not NAR, per se.

The larger point is that NAR has largely abdicated its leadership position.

I can speak for myself, I HAVE been in contact - on a specific issue of NATIONAL IMPORT NO LESS - yet have been largely unresponded to. I would say ignored, but ignored requires deliberate effort. Unresponded is more accurate as it relates to letting it bounce off unattended, unaddressed and disengaged. At least ignored means someone actually did something active.

Let me be specific:

Non-licensed brokers reporting (misreporting) real estate data for their own purposes.

* Specifically, RealtyTrac misreporting foreclosures in Colorado - and I am told in other states - by meaningful amounts. In Colorado, the misreporting is in error by 58% in 2007 and 142% in 2008.

* That level of misreporting - if damaging values by $10k per home - is worth $21 BILLION in lost equity in Colorado, and $1.3 TRILLION if a nationwide problem.

I have contacted my local board - JCAR (Jefferson County Association of Realtors) - To their credit, a response of curiosity, but little else
Wrote a full-blown analysis to the following boards - all ignored the email:
- Denver Board
- Aurora Board
- South Metro
- North Metro
- Bouder Board
- Colorado Assocation
- JCAR - only response
- Every email contact I could find at NAR
Through a non-Realtor contact, a CAR representative did reach out. However, that has gone nowhere...even though there is a bill in the State House speaking to this very issue - accurate foreclosure reporting (HB 1197 in Colorado, sponsored by Frank McNulty R-Highlands Ranch)

Given accurate foreclosure data is paramount in the middle of a housing crisis - and I have already done the detailed analysis - one would think that would generate the minimal amount of curiosity.

However, I can't even get an email. Had I not sent them "read receipt emails", I wouldn't have known that all were read, and - with the exception of JCAR - all others went unresponded.

So, it's easy to say reach out, hold them accountable, make them earn your dues...however, even when we do, it goes unresponded.

By the way, my next step is going to the Colorado Attorney General about this issue. They are the only ones to respond.

It has nothing to do with the economy. It does have to do with right/wrong. And it's wrong to be unresponsive to the body one proclaims to serve.

Michael Clarkson

Steven,

You have certainly opened a can of worms as we say in the South. I agree with much of what you say, however, I too am required to belong to NAR in order to be a member of our Local Board and have access to our MLS and still pay for that. The general public will never understand the cost of being a 'REALTOR' and especially one with experience and designations.

To go one step farther, I will also add a new questions to the group. Why do we have to continue to be required to 'pay' for the right to use our designations such as ABR, CRS, CLHMS, SRS, etc, and etc, after we have 'paid' to get the designations and passed all the courses required to get them?

I will risk opening one more can of worms for comments that requires me to spend more money to keep my business going in today's stressful economy. I understand if you want these organizations to keep sending you magazines which I never have the time to read, or to prepare for a conference I cannot afford to attend right now but doesn't that sort of contradict one another and the purpose of having the designation and being able to use it? I know these designations are also options but once you have passed the requirements and paid for the course ''why' do you have to continue paying for the right to use the designation you have already earned?

Gena, I am quite familiar with the term "Open up a can of worms", my wife is from Alabama. To your point about the designations, just one more scam to drain our pocket books, that is what those designations are. The public doesn't even know what they mean, so why are they useful. I don't think many of us have asked our leaders to give an explanation. I am sure that this will continue to keep the can open.

Steve,

You're a mind reader.

I'll soon be approaching a yearly "anniversary" of being a Realtor and I was going through all the fees I'll have to pay in my head. That number added up to VERY LARGE NUMBER.

Following that little exercise I was trying to justify the fees on a qualitative and quantitative basis. IMHO - I can honestly say that being a member of NAR has been worth zero to me in terms of quality (read education, support, other value added characteristics) and zero to me in terms of dollars too.

Without your courage to discuss this sensitive topic I would have never known that most Realtors feel similarly to you and I. Thank you sir!

Best,

Kent

What a great post and it really has made me think. I have been a Realtor for 20 years and paid a lot of NAR dues. What have I gotten out of it? Never really thought about it unitl I read your post!

The MLS hasn't been around all that long, but NAR sure has. I believe NAR does offer some value to our business. By being a member of NAR you can then belong to your State Association of Realtors which provides forms, legal hotline, education and reduced costs on E&O insurance. I'm in complete agreement on NAR not looking out for the Realtors best interests during all the "Sell Outs", I mean "Bail Outs. We all have a choice when it comes to belonging to NAR, MLS or any organization. But I believe by sticking together (even with NAR), we are a large force to be reckoned with instead of just a small handful with a quiet voice that noone hears. Everyone needs to Get involved with your local association-legislative affairs. They watch out for us alot more then you think they do!

FEB

2009

Steven, sounds like you have started a revolution here! The Good stuff about NAR... Conventions! They really do a great job with that! The Bad stuff about NAR (besides the obvious you have already stated)... Painting unrealistic "rosey" real estate stats across the country in 2006 & 2007, when the market had already tanked in various areas. Where do they get their stats, anyway? So, what are we getting for our money, you ask? Lots of "Realtor" commercials on XM Radio! But, you gotta pay to listen to that too!

I stopped believing in NAR a while ago. I remember reading about a statue they were contributing money to, i think it was a monument in Washington DC. They gave something like $1 mil towards the monument. I saw that announcement and threw their magazine out. They were proud of that! What an excellent use of OUR MONEY.

And a year ago they had a one-page article praising the benefits of one-stop shops. It was an article, but looked like an ad. What a transparent bow to the big companies with their all in one operations, and a blow to independents.

I too have to belong to and pay dues to a local board, a state board and the national board of realtors just to have access to the mls. It's sort of like paying ransome to do business actually if you think about it. I can't say that I've really gotten anything for being a "realtor" as opposed to not being a "realtor" either, since still the majority of consumers really have no idea what the difference is. I prefer to call myself a "real estate professional" and leave it at that. That title doesn't require any dues or membership whatsoever and I think more of us should really use it. That's what we are...real estate professionals.

FEB

2009

It's obvious many of us feel the same way but that isn't going to change anything. Many of us need access to the MLS to operate our business and from reading the comments, many of us are required to belong to our local association and NAR to have access to our local MLS. Without solutions, we can't make changes.

I am competing for PR against my local board. Frustrating and futile. My dues go to promoting their site. My listings better serve me through MY SITE. Not theirs.

MAR

2009

There s no win for us fighting this, unfortunately. The consumers DON'T know the difference between a real estate salesperson and a REALTOR. They don't care. Just get me the house.

If you want MLS access, you must join the whole she-bang in my area. MLS access = local board + PAR + NAR. no separating them.

MAR

2009

Seems like you have flipped alot of switches this morning.

Hi Steve

I do not support the stimulus package, it been rushed though with little thought or input. I firmly believe that NAR and NAHB should not support the bill. The stimulus bill is pure crap.

Good luck and success

Lou Ludwig

MAR

2009

I'm with Lou. I don't think NAR should have backed this either.

MAR

2009

Here is what the REALTOR organization and NAR tends to forget. There are no longer then only place in town where we as licensed professional can post our info and where we can lobby (for free) for support on regulatory issues.

I know in my State we have over 20,000 actively practicing Real Estate Professionals and now over 50% are no longer part of NAR and the REALTOR organization and looking at the new trend about 10-15% will leave the organization this year alone.bakupari

HERES AN EXAMPLE OF NAR WORKING FOR US! I am sure NAR lobbyists had a hand in this improvement. Just in case you missed it:

Fannie Mae has stepped up to the plate and defended the
Agents involved in short sales.

As of March 1, 2009, commissions up to 6% as agreed in the
listing agreement cannot be unilaterally reduced by the
loan servicer on Fannie Mae backed loans.

 From the February 24, 2009 Lender Announcement on
eFannieMae.com:



"No Negotiation of Preforeclosure Sales Commission


Servicing Guide,

Part VII, Section 504.02: Contacting Selected Borrowers


Effective March 1, 2009, closing of preforeclosure sales
may not be conditioned upon a

reduction of the total commission to be paid to real
estate agents to a level below what was

negotiated by the listing agent with the borrower, unless
the fee exceeds 6 percent of the sales

price of the property in aggregate. Servicers are reminded
that they must continue to obtain

any approvals that may be required by interested third
parties in connection with preforeclosure

sales."

Sort of late to the conversation - overwhelming it sees like folks feel the NAR has hijacked the countries MLS systems. Maybe a good AR poll? How many Realtors would drop NAR membership if you could still access YOUR MLS?

Great topic for discussion. As a result I am going to check with MLS to see if I am required to be a member of NAR to participate. I opened my own brokerage in May and I hope I might be allowed to discontinue my membership in NAR.

Why don't you start a group on ActiveRain strictly for those Realtors who don't believe in NAR - you could call it the "Elimination of NAR" group or some similar name. I'm serious here. Why not send a message to NAR by having this group and taking this topic into much broader discussion and debate. Perhaps something new and better could arise that would work to represent Realtors, not cost what it currently does, and stay out of the lobbying aspects of the business.

I for one would NOT join NAR if I didn't have to.

We have the NAR to thank for our new Sentrilock system which we all were forced to convert to ... another overpriced overhyped item that doesn't make our lives any better. I am tired of being chirpy about these things too.

MAR

2009

You said enough. I get a magazine once a month telling me what great things their doing for us and I don't see nothin......

Our Associations, local, state and national provide us a unified voice in politics. Unfortunately too many members would rather complain than participate. I agree, NR isn,t perfect. I have had the good forutne of going to DC to meet our State Delegation. They came to us and they listened and engaged in some meaningful conversation. Banks in real estate brokerage is a huge issue. Look at the mess short sales, foreclosures and bank owned properties have created for us. Mostly a result of banks and lenders. We need a voice to protect our industry and private property rights. If not the NAR who? If NAR is broken, as members, lets get together and fix it not just sit at home and blog it to death. Action speaks louder than words. If we are in real estate, politics is our business.

The problem is it's way to hierarchial and difficult to enact change. I personally am frustrated on the LOCAL level and see our local board as difficult to deal with/enact change. They want the status quo and don't want to hear new ideas (in my experience with them). So I am not involved locally much as a broker. I find it frustrating on a local level. I do things on a STATE level, and find that more rewarding.

The problem is our industry has changed phenomenally in the past 20 years, and the speed of change is accellerating, not slowing down. But agents/the local boards don't want to admit this or see the future. They want to stay the SAME. Nothing stays the same.

The board's function was to share information. Now with all the OTHER sources of housing info, the public needs us less for that. They need us more for our experience/brains. Not to FIND the houses (for the most part). We need to change. NAR and the local boards still want to be hoarders of information, not sharers.

Both of the local MLS systems in my area require both NAR and MAR (Michigan Assoc of REALTORS) membership.

I think NARS days as a relevant orgonization are numbered, if the membership doesn't see value in what they provide eventually they will be gone.

I agree 100% with Steve. I've had it with these so-called designations that are supposed to make you a better agent. Though I know that all our displays of disdain will not change anything, I still want to put my two bits in.

I applied and obtained a certification for an Accredited Buyer Representation designation (ABR) and thought it would protect me against a ravenous wolf Realtor who might want to steal my client. I passed the importance of always having a Buyer's Representation Agreement to my agents and they did religously. Well, it happened one day, not to me but to one my agents. My agent called the Listing Agent and asked if the house was still available. The Listing Agent said the house was "under contract and no longer available". My agent's client was skeptical and later that evening called the number on the yard sign. The client was told the house "was still available and that only she could show him the house". The Listing Agent ended up selling the house to my buyer's client. I protested to TREC and they referred me to the legal department. There I was told that a Buyer's Representation Agreement "amounted to a hill of beans...there could be 10 Buyer's Representation Agreements!" I cancelled my designation and have not paid it again nor will I ever.

When it comes down to the wire, the buyer could care less if you're a GRI, ABR, CRES, etc...all they want is a house.

MAR

2009

I would drop NAR membership in a heartbeat if I could get access to the MLS without it. I absolutely hate the fact that my dues are going toward a political agenda that I do not support. The NAR should stay out of politics. If Realtors want to become politically involved, a separate political action committe should be formed. Realtors can decide to support or not support the political action committee. I do not pay my dues to the NAR for this sort of crap.

Our RPAC is one of the most toughest and active in DC. But I am with you we need a 'NAR Tea Party' and stop paying. They have just launched a new blog. Do we really need a staff for this? Probably not but it doesn't seem like we have a voice. I don't agree with you that my board has large enough 'teeth' to protect the public against our own. As far as I know in IL, they are not staffed enough to bring all the cases they can each year. It's a loosing battle and I don't know who pays for that either!

BTW I subtract my RPAC from my dues each year and do not pay what they customarily throw in. I'm not sure you have too either.

MAR

2009

In Chicago whenever I call CAR for help, I am told to ask my Broker. Well, what if the problem is with my Broker? That's what I faced at my last firm. I am at a great company now but I still don't see the value from the $480 I pay each year. They want yearly dues in order to pay for CEU's (they gave these free this year) and pay to be on the MLS.

I say let us pay MLS directly and choose to belong or not to the Association. They know that if they do that, they will have to move out of the new downtown offices and streamline staff and build a strong value proposition. There's an idea! We are always building a "Value Proposition" to our potential clients. How about they do the same?!!

They have the Brokers over a barrell because they will fine them and pull their license if any of their salespeople dare not pay the CAR dues. What a rip off. I say pay one yearly dues of $400 for CAR, MLS and any CEU requirements.

Finally, why do we have to pay extra to have our listings featured on Realtor.com? Why can't our dues pay for that as well? Isn't that OUR website????!!!!

MAR

2009

O.K., I'm an ignorant Canadian. You guys down there have a lot of acronyms in your business. I'm assuming NAR is...National Association of Realtors? I couldn't quite follow your rant, but having read it 3 times, I had to ask, and I'm not not being facitious; just trying to learn. We're in a common business separated by a different lanhueage.

$500 is a lot especially these days. NAR should reduce their price to help us Realtors out. Thanks for the post today, as always, good reading.

Patricia Aulson Portsmouth NH Real Estate

Fabulous post! I, personally, don't have an option on paying NAR dues. If I want to have MLS acces, I have to pay. You made some really good points about voting. We would NEVER DREAM of relinquishing our right to vote to anyone else and trusting them to cast a vote endorsing our preferences. Why do we trust NAR to do this? They have us in a catch twenty-two. If we want to continue doing business, we have to pay. It really is like being an involuntary member of a really useless union.

MAR

2009

As realtors, we have more power than we know....we should voice our opinions to the powers that be! We are a huge organization...I'd like a little health care.

MAR

2009

Hi Steve,

My husband agrees with you 100% and so do I. The public doesn't know what all the designations mean and all they do is keep charging us more money...where does all the money go?

I am still a Realtor and CRS and etc. but because no buyer or seller really understands I create

Http://www.AmericasBestAgents.com

Everyone knows what that means and it has gotten me a lot more recognition then any of the other designations.

I am origingally from Colorado and Love it and would still be there but I love the Ocean and weather in Naples, Florida and I live close to the beach ...but go to Colorado several times a year to see my grown up kids...we have so much fun because we have the Best of both Worlds!

Please Keep Up the Great Work...we really appreciate it!....Ginny Lee

MAR

2009

Steve,

Thanks for the post.

I agree. ALL of the Associaltons have become dictatorial, bloated, useless and leaches feeding off their Members, (read Subjects).

Nothing should happen without our vote!! As long as we send money things will continue the same.

This is government Without representation.(read Subjects) And if no one has quessed, I am very Angry!! and have been for quite awhile.

AUG

2009

Hello Steven,

I really want to practice residential real estate, but to effectively do so I must become a Realtor to gain access to the MLS in Austin, Tx. To become a member I must pay $597 in application fees and dues then I must pay additional fees of $629.42 to have access to the the MLS plus an additional fee of around $43.00 for access to the leasing MLS if I want that feature (total of $1269.42 estimated). Will I pay these fees? I have to if I want to practice real estate effectively in Austin. Texas is a non-disclosure state so I can't just look up comparables in public records or this would be a moot point. That to me smacks of monopoly, which severly limits my ability to practice my chosen profession. As a real estate agent I should have more choices than being required to join a specific singular organization or have my license rendered effectively useless.

Personally I think an answer may be in salespeople and brokers fed up with the current system. I am surprised no one even thought of the possibility of competing with the Realtor organizations. Here is a possible solution:

Create a broker reciprocity agreement network (in competition to local MLS boards) and permit any licensed agent to join who agrees to follow and be bound by its rules for posting information accurately, timely, and ethically. The agents/brokers must report all information such as sales data, commissions, etc. and gains access to forms (prepared by lawyers) and a legal hot-line. Take Trulia for example, it is a not a Realtor organization, but something like it could take off and be even more useful and powerful in the hands of real estate brokers wanting a change. It could even be designed to be statewide with local areas. It depends on whether agents, who really have the power, actually want such competition or want to keep NAR and its subsequent chapters in power. NAR has a lot of power and money. With approximately 1,300,000 Realtors (http://www.realtor.org/press_room/public_affairs/narfactsheet) at annual dues of $110 means they collect in the area of $143,000,000 annually.

Just a side thought. Ever wonder why the bar to enter the profession is so low? I wonder how much lobbying NAR and it's state organizations have done to prevent stricter requirements. If it was required tomorrow that every agent needed a bachelors degree from a regionally accredited university wouldn't that significantly impact those dues to NAR? How much would you get upset if they still wanted to make $143 million but didn't have the base to do spread out the costs? Would you like your NAR membership to jump to the thousands of dollars annually?

Of course a lot of people without degrees would scream foul, but in Texas a degree is required to become a Lawyer, Engineer, Doctor, CPA, and Land Surveyor. Why not a real estate agent? For that matter why not a degree that is substantially relevant such as real estate, finance, geography, business, etc.?

I'm not particularly against NAR or local boards as they do serve a purpose, but I am for choice and having only one organization control an MLS and all of that information is rather limiting for agents and the public. Brokers choose to be members of a local MLS board; they don't have to do so if another option is presented that offers value to brokers and agents.

Just some thoughts.

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Steven Wright CRS~ Home Real Estate720-989-5283

Aurora, CO

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This blog has relevant information for the Realtor on the go. I write about relevent things happening around the USA and in Colorado. If all else fails, I inject a bit of humor into my blog posts.

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