Outside of ActiveRain, It's No Holds Barred.

Inside ActiveRain, there are "guidelines" that keep things civil. This is true the vast, vast majority of the time. Everyone has a common objective and the community supports it's members. Personal attacks are heavily frowned upon. But they have been known to happen.

What Do You Do When Someone Goes On The Attack?

project blogger logoLast week we legally finalized the adoption of our two little girls. It was a joyous day for our family and my wife.  Later that day, after watching a show on Orphans in Africa, Rocky quickly put out a post entitled, Two Less Orphans In The World. I'm not sure she's ever used the word orphan to refer to our girls before, but she did it this time because of the context... legally, in California, our girls were termed orphans. And she did it because of the news story she had just watched before writing the post.

She was happy. She wanted to share her joy. She expressed her hopes for their future, as any parent might. It seemed like an innocent, feel good post to me. 

Until the first comment came.

"You represent everything I abhor in adoption."

Then the second...

"Adoption is meant to be all about the child - not all about what you want."

Then the third...

"Why not put $30,000 into improving their community and country instead of using it to pay they adoption agency? These children already have a family."

How would you react? What would you say?

Rocky came to me, hurt and angry. She was completely thrown off guard by the comments. Her instinct, was to attack back. She came to me because she knew that wouldn't be my approach.

She had several options:

  • attack back
  • delete the comments
  • ignore the comments
  • try to understand their point of view

Call me crazy. But I like the last option and that's why I'm writing this post.

It turned out her post had been commented on inside an adoptee forum that didn't like her use of the word "orphan." They only recognize the primary American Heritage definition of the term - someone who has lost both parents to death. We didn't know this at the time. And I can't do this justice here without you reading the comment strings, which include comments from Julie Ferenzi. But my advice to Rocky was this... "accept up front that they may have a perspective we can learn from and use this opportunity to find out what it is. Try to engage them in a discussion that will benefit everyone." She agreed.

If You Can Turn It Around, Everyone Wins. 

My goal with the advice was to respond in a way that was consistent with our values, that modeled how we would want to be treated and to try to draw in more readers for her blog in the process. 

If you read the entire string of comments you'll see that the "try to engage" strategy did not work on that single post. And after the commenter said to me, "you’re not a physically attractive person, I can tell by the way you write," Rocky decided to take the discussion off Mothers Fighting For Others and over to Muthahood.com. I even tried some humor.

What we found out by continuing to engage, without insulting back, is that others were watching, and writing on their own blogs, even if they weren't commenting. And the subsequent post by both Rocky and I drew a few comments from those who did not initially join the battle. Their comments led us to  great stuff. Posts like, Just Exactly WHY Nice People Swallow and The Perfect Storm. These were women who understood what the original commenter was feeling in her words and they articulated them in a way that made sense. 

The Aftermath Turned Into Something Very Good

Firs it turned into a better understanding of both sides of the adoption discussion. Rocky continued to try to engage by writing a follow up post, It's About Poverty. What was the result of a desire to understand where these comments were coming from? Of a desire to understand the other side? It was posts like this by other very insightful writers, Why Do You Think This is, Adoption And Poverty, and Open Mike: Orphanage or Adoption? 

And it also multiplied traffic to Mothers Fighting For Others. Visits were five time higher than normal during the discussions and the residual effect is that Mothers who may never have found the site, found it.  

Dark Clouds Can Have A Very Bright Silver Lining

If you blog for very long, you're going to get your share of ugly or harsh personal comments. If you're writing from your heart, it's inevitable. To get the greatest benefit from those comments, you have to have a sincere desire to see the other side, to try to understand the motivation for the comments, and a willingness to go the distance.

People are watching you, even if they're not commenting. They want to see how you handle yourself in these situations. Only one genre of responses creates the kind of positive impact you hope for in these situations. This time it worked out better than I could have ever hoped for.

But just as important as any of this... Rocky and I both know now how much pain a seemingly innocent word like "orphan" can cause and we've discovered a whole new world of information and resources.  Would it have happened without "You represent everything I abhor in adoption." I doubt it.

What would you have done? 

 
Post is included in group: The Hubba Clubba...ROAR!

89 Comments on Like A Dark Cloud: When Comments Get Ugly And Personal

MAY
11
2007
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Wow Jeff, you guys continue to amaze me. I would hope taht I would engage and try to understand, but I'm not sure how far I could have taken it. But the aftermath is what I'm finding amazing. The power of the blogosphere is truly incredible. We are in the midst of a new era.

Congrats on the children and many blessings on you and your entire family, nameless and faceless as the should be... : )

3:21am • #1
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I would have reacted like Rocky and been hurt emotionally, but then I would have taken the high road and done exactly like you all did. But, it would have been hard, no doubt.
3:29am • #2
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Larry... thanks. What amazes me is what can happen if you simply make the effort. The women involved on both sides were able to let the dust settle and see each other in new ways. 

Missy... I found that the hard decision is often the right decision. That proved true here as well. The simplest of the possible alternatives would have been to just delete the comment. No anger, nothing. Just delete it. But that wouldn't have given anyone the chance to hear each other. 

3:34am • #3
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You guys handled it so well.  I stumbled across those comments a few days ago when I was reading Rocky's blog and I just couldn't believe it.  It got so personal and MEAN.  And just wrong.  Not that I really know you guys, but I know enough to be awed, and I have great respect for you guys as parents.  I wanted to thump some heads for Rocky, but by the time I was there it was handled. 

When a similar thing happened on a much smaller scale here on my blog, my AR friends handled it for me while I slept, for the most part.  You guys are the best!

And when I read that line about you being unattractive, I wondered what TLW would have to say about that ... I'm waiting to see!  (What was THAT all about anyway?!)

3:43am • #4

>"accept up front that they may have a perspective we can learn from and use this opportunity to find out what it is. Try to engage them in a discussion that will benefit everyone."

Great advice. No, that is brilliant advice: Attacks, whether they are mild or bold, personal or general, physical or mental, always reflect the attacker, not the attacked, always always.

I love sharing ideas and seeing another point of view, and blogging is such a perfect medium for that, but that's my personality and not everyone is able (or willing) to do that. Too bad for them.

You said it perfectly, you handled it perfectly, AND you've given brilliant advice per usual. :-)

4:18am • #5
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That is pretty amazing.  I can't image anyone attacking her like that.  What small people.
4:44am • #6
161,038 Points 43 Featured Posts

Wow Jeff, that's harsh. Blogging is at it's best when we see the real person behind the article. Not many people take the risk of being real, in blogging or in life. To see someone attacked if very hard to watch and must be harder to experience.

Here's what I think. Today on my planet, 2 little girls are finally just where they need to be. No matter what anyone says, it's a better planet than it was yesterday...

5:43am • #7
192,688 Points 64 Featured Posts Outside Blog
attack comments onblogs are not that unusual.  I have collected a few.  In most cases ignoring them is best.  When we put ourselves out there people will disagree with us.  I am not being critical of your approach writing about your children is a little different than writing about real estate.  But that brings up another point.  I am careful about what I share.
5:44am • #8
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I had commented on Rocky's blog and not followed the string.  I hadn't checked back because we've been so busy with graduation week.  I'm sorry this happened to you both.
6:13am • #9
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Jeff- Teresa brings up a good point.  When it involves something outside of real estate, it can be interpreted on an emotional level, with the resultant comments.  While it is admirable for comrades on Active Rain to jump to the defense of a "friend", it tends to sour the message.  Better to simply provide your own comment, and let the author handle it (as your wife did so well).  Your post today should be a great reminder for everyone that your posts are public domain, and if you have difficulty with either an opposing view, criticism, or whatever, keep the news to yourself, or share with friends outside of the forum.  Otherwise, if you want to share, anticipate that there may be comments that you don't like, respond to them in your own words, and as commentors to the blog, leave the sorority-like, schoolyard pack mentality to just that- the school yard.  Congratulations on your adoption- those are some lucky babies!

6:27am • #10
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Jeff - you and your wife took the high road for sure.  I would have been very hurt, just as Rocky, and then I would likely have written a scathing comment, sat back and re-read it and re-read it, and maybe I would have either re-written it again or just deleted it.  Then I would have stewed about it for hours and hours, and then maybe tried to re-write a comment again.  I would like to think I would have been able to get to a point within me that would have enabled me to write something calm and rational at that point.

You're so right - everything we write is being read somewhere by someone and that is causing us to be judged by all kinds of people.  I try to be so conscious of how what I write can be read.  This is a great lesson in thinking long and hard when provoked before committing to writing for the world to see.

Thank you for sharing this post,
Ann

6:29am • #11
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Jeff,

I'm so sorry this happened to you and your wife.  Thank goodness you didn't let ugly people like this get to you.  People can be nasty when they hide behind the invisible veil of the internet.  Here's to you and your new family.

6:35am • #12
2 Featured Posts

Jeff...I confess...I would probably have "deleted and ignored", but I applaud your choice to "engage" and try to understand.  And I like that others were "watching" and weighing in.  I'm proud of you!

regards...Jay

6:38am • #13
434,704 Points 70 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff,

In todays society, things have really changed for the sublime.

Somethings remain private and many people aren`t capbale of understanding the joy you and your wife share!

It`s very sad that people take "POTSHOTS" at others for their personal jollies!  

6:40am • #14

Jeff,

Thanks for the post. What wonderful example of how to turn a negative into a positive. Hopefully, the enlightenment was realized on both fronts. Thanks for sharing.

6:56am • #15
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I applaud you and Rocky's approach on this.  I am sure I would have went immediately on the defensive and I try not to get stirred easily.  What I think I would have done would have taken the conversation off line in to an email format.  But that's just me, I don't know if I would have want to resolve this in a public forum.  I want to understand the other side but not at the expense of personal attacks on me or anyone else.  When you get emotional, sometimes you lose control, which, obviously you guys didn't!!

In response to Sarah's comment " And when I read that line about you being unattractive, I wondered what TLW would have to say about that ... I'm waiting to see!  (What was THAT all about anyway?!)"

Your Mom's a big fat doogie head!!!  (in other words, I think they had nothing more intelligent to say)

Congrats again Jeff, on a wonder family and I admire your "Perspective" on your post.

7:03am • #16
402,223 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

"you're not a physically attractive person, I can tell by the way you write,"...

Well. TLW was there and stayed out of it so that Rocky and Hubba could do the thing they do best. They Y.E.O'd them :)

{SVW Hubba}...

At the urging of Blog Boy I just deleted the two paragraph comment that I had typed in here. So now I guess I have to rethink what it is I want to say. Bummer. I wish I could say what I'm REALLY thinking. There's a time and a place for everything and AR is not the place for my thoughts on this.

TLW...ROAR!

7:03am • #17
402,223 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Cash aka Scott...

Pot Shots? Hmmm. I had that in my original two paragraph comment that I just deleted :)

TLW...ROAR!

7:07am • #18

I somehow stumbled onto this page a few days ago, and quickly took in the details. I did not realize that this was your family. Congratulations on your extended family!!!! Sorry no gift, I can't remember where you said you registered - :)

As a single mother of two, my heart wept when Rocky told the story of a Guatemalen mother asking her to take her child to America too, and my mind was very angry upon reading the comments from the attacking bloggers. Kudos to Rocky and all her friends and neighbors (I love the story of your neighbor who is adopting from China) for all the great work they have done!

Continue to share the joy, and thank you for bringing this painful issue to AR.

7:07am • #19
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Jeff,

Posted the fifth one up and realized that I had not logged on. Sorry!

7:14am • #20
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Hey Jeff, Ok I just spent time reading the comment thread on the other blog. KimKIm and the other two definitely have some issue that have absolutely nothing to do with Rocky. You were right to try and engage them. I get negative comments quite often on my posts and always try to turn them around. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But I do like trying. First because I like a challenge and secondly because maybe I will learn something or get a point of view I didn't have before. When the other party starts name calling and making it personal it really just means that they have lost and can no longer justify their own stance on the issue. And if they start the battle they way it's because they have lost it somewhere else and are now looking for a new arena.

I thought you guys handled the entire situation very well.

7:19am • #21
120,456 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Jeff and Rocky -

The person that threw so much anger into her post obvisouly didn't know the two of you.  If so, she'd known where your hearts really are.  You both handled it very well.  And CONGRATULATIONS!

"kimkim" has a lot of anger about her adoption and removal from her native country.  She came across as not being thankful that she was brought here, raised in an amercan lifestyle or given opportunities otherwise unavailable had she not been brought here.  That is very sad!  And unfortunately, you received the brunt of her anger.  Without knowing kimkim's whole story it's hard to say why she's so mad or what has happened in her life that she feels this way.  And she does want someone to blame. . .  

And "Sarah" presents a whole other idea.  I kind of got the feeling you are "damned if you do and damned if you don't."  I've heard so many times that the Americans don't do enough to help the poor or children in third-world countires and then when an american does do something they are accused of interfering or "taking" for themselves.  Again, very sad that this is how you are perceived.

Thanks for sharing and being so open about this matter.  It certainly gives one food for thought about what we say and how we respond to others when posting comments.

7:33am • #22
110,262 Points
How awesome that these two children have a family who loves them. God bless both of you for taking these children and giving them a better life.
7:46am • #23
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Jeff-

I think you and Rocky handled things very well. 

There are always going to be people that are rude, ignorant and mean - and when they can do it without identifying themselves they will do so at every opportunity.

I've gotten some rude comments on blogs before (granted - nowhere near what you 2 just experienced!) but I just try to turn the situation around.  Hey, even if you can't,  the offending party just comes off looking like a fool anyway!

My Best to you, Rocky and the kids!

7:50am • #24
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Hi Jeff, I read this at first but came back to comment.  I wasn't going to at first. I just really think it's sad that people get into these arguments over adoption.  It's too bad the kids don't have a say.  I think you and your wife are angels for what you have done.  Anyone who wants to argue about the "best" interest of a child that is apparently not thinking just isn't even worth arguing with.  Waste of energy. You could have spent that 5 minutes sitting with your child watching tv or something.

You two are awesome. Don't someone on the net pull you down. I myself am adopted...so I take all of the adoption conversation a little personal. Keep it up!

7:55am • #25
3 Featured Posts

Jeff, I have not read the post yet, but will be there right after I leave this comment.  I am subscribed to your blog (don't know why not to Rocky's as I read and love her stuff and am a member of her group).  I know I would have been extremely hurt by the comments and am not certain how I would have handled it.

Rocky is very lucky to have you as her support; your advice was completely correct.

Congratulations on your new family and I will keep your family on my prayer list.

7:56am • #26
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I know I've mentioned I'm adopted. I see adoption as representing everything good in the world. Those comments just don't make sense. Cognitively Dissonant. They might as well be in Chinese. I don't feel angry when I read them, I just shake my head "Nope, they're wrong."  Now I can't say I wouldn't feel personally attacked if those comments were directed at me...not because of the topic....because they WERE directed at your personally. You took the high road...hope I'll be able to.
8:01am • #27
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It was a very intense weekend for sure!

8:02am • #28
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Lisa, I know this is Jeff's post but you would probably agree with what I'm about to say.  As for the comment that "adoption is about the child and not what you want"...is just a moranic statement.  If I could meet my birth mother I would say Thank You for being responsible. I have a great family-As fas as I'm concerned they ARE my parents.  Adoption is a win-win for adoptive parent and child. There need to be more people like Jeff and Rocky!  Thanks for speaking up Lisa!
8:06am • #29
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A good lesson, and a beautiful story.  Congratulations and enjoy your new children.

8:07am • #30
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Congratulations on your new family. Those little girls are very fortunate to have come across you and your wife.
8:21am • #31
2 Featured Posts
Like I always say, you and Rocky are pretty incredible.  When I adopt my first child, you all will be one of the first that I want to tell.  You've got great wisdom and encouraging words.  
8:32am • #32
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TLW,

Alot of people wander in here taking "POT SHOTS' they don`t realize it`s hurtful.

8:36am • #33
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Everyone, thank you for your responses. I finished this very late last night and have to run out very shortly this morning. I will not be able to address many of these comments as I usually would.

Sharing about motherhood, as my wife does, is NOT like writing about real estate, as Teresa says, so the emotional level starts higher. But I've seen instances, even on some top real estate blogs, where the personal attacks end up going the wrong direction.

Some of you have commented that delete and ignore might be the way you would have handled this. We might have too, if the comment had been anonymous. But it wasn't. We were able to go and read the commenter's blog and get a feel for who they were as well. This played a large role in the response. It helped us see through the anger.

I do that often, even here on AR. When someone I don't know comments and I don't quite understand the comment, I'll go take a look at their profile, read a couple of their posts. It helps put their comment into their personal context and also allows me to react to it with a greater sense of confidence.

I can say with all honesty, I am glad it went this way. I've since had some really positive comments back and forth with the original commenter. The perspective was worth the effort. 

Stephanie and Lisa... thank you for sharing your perspective. Your feelings about your own adoptions certainly add balance to the discussion. We can only hope our daughters grow up with the same sense of love that you both have. I know I will be a better father as a result of last weeks exchange the resulting awareness it brought. I have new books to read and new emotions to explore. My wife was already aware of some of the issues... for whatever reason, I was not. I certainly am now.

8:36am • #34
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Hi Jeff, by reading your posts off and on I feel certain that you and your wife will raise your girls to be great!  I'm sure they will grow to admire you both and aspire to become excellent open minded adults.  They will experience a level of love and education that may not have come to them otherwise.  I certainly admire the two of you and I am glad that you were able to take the negative comments and make it a positive learning experience.
8:44am • #35
192,688 Points 64 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Jeff - I hope my comment did not bother you.  I am not being at all critical.
8:49am • #36
138,933 Points 4 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff - As you know, no matter what we do in life - good or bad - someone will have something negative to say about it.  When appropriate, we try to discuss and educate.

I have three adopted children.  Yes, in California (where we adopted them) once the birth parent's parental rights are terminated, the children are legally considered orphans.  I remember the day the judge terminated parental rights for each of my kids...we thought that would be a joyous day, but it was surprisingly sad.

But we move on.  I've had several negative comments from others about my adopting my boys.  They're a different race...how could you do that?  You're not a "traditional" family...how could you do that?  They let YOU adopt?  Is this adoption legal?  Are they really YOUR kids?

I've also been called a hero.  A saint.  A gift.  Adults that we knew for years, who never shared the fact that they were adopted as children, suddenly shared their stories and shared in the joy of my new family.

Since my children are a different race then I am, I am often asked questions in public.  Are you babysitting?  I won't justify that with an explanation, but rather just a "No" and then I move on.  But many others approach me to hug me.  To talk to my kids.  To share their own stories.  Or share a huge, knowing smile as they walk by.  I have had several people come up to me to thank me, and then they share their stories of having been in foster care as children.

We discuss and educate when we can.  But when my children are around, inappropriate questions are not allowed.  It's not fair to them to have their legitimacy in their family questioned. 

 

9:03am • #37
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Congratulations on the joy of the process of expanding your family. It takes special people to open their hearts and homes to children not biologically of their own producing. Beauty is the strength than comes from within us, and which allows beautiful things to happen for us and for those whose lives we touch in a profound way. Certainly, you and Rocky have that inner beauty and the world is a little better for it.

It matters not, what anyone says or thinks what truly matters is how you have improved the lives of those whom you hold near and dear to your heart. 

9:03am • #38
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I just read the blog and all its comments. I am amazed at the attack the one woman was on. She obviously has alot of anger. Instead of working it out, she has chosen to attack others. Some people just hate to see happiness in others.
9:05am • #39
130,284 Points 9 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Jeff, Wow I've just followed the blog, comments all the way to the photo and the end result and I am impressed and speechless. I know I wouldn't have done it that way, now I'll rethink things. Glad to see this post featured.
9:15am • #40
402,223 Points 72 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Cash aka Scott...

Is it they don't realize it's hurtful? Or is their intent exactly that?

In my case I have taken several of these "pot shots" just this week. And many more in the past.

As far as I'm concerned the "pot shots" and innuendos are a deliberate attempt shoot me down a few pegs.

Too bad I'm not the kind of person that goes down that easy :)

TLW...ROAR!

9:24am • #41
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Congrats on the children Jeff! My cousin was adopted by my Aunt and Uncle at a young age and he was received with open arms by the entire family :)

Scott

9:26am • #42
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Jeff, I just read the post you were referring to and I have no comment other than I commend you and Rocky for such a great attitude and that I still think it's sad that the others took such a beautiful experience and made it negative.  Not only that, I think it's sad that their experience was not as positive as others such as myself.  You both did the right thing all around.  Wish I could have been there to hop in the conversation!
9:44am • #43

Jeff I visited Rocky's post and have an empty feeling inside now.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.  There will always be those refusing to see Rocky's unselfish efforts as the beautiful, selfless acts that they are.

Congratulations to you and your lovely family. 

10:25am • #44
225,354 Points 41 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Jeff, sorry, that comment above was mine.  I forgot I had logged out =/
10:27am • #45
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Jeff the first thing for you and Rocky is never let the cool heart of others distract you from the good you have done and the love you have brought those 2 children. 

It is disappointing that some just don't see good and joy.  In regards to the post, as you are the experts at this and the fact that you extended your heart out there you both handled it just fine!  There is truth in the statement, kill them with kindness!

Many Blessings,

Kel

10:30am • #46
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Don... "It's not fair to them to have their legitimacy in their family questioned." I couldn't agree more. BTW, I am one of the whitest men in the world. My wife, on the other hand, has dark olive skin. So even my naturally born children don't look like they are from my seed. The girls, even darker. We already get some of those comments. And our experience mirrors yours in terms of alternate questioning and praise. We don't concentrate on either. It changes nothing. Thank you for sharing this here!

Teresa... I could never take your comments as anything but constructive.

Stephanie... the cool thing is we feel like we've open a positive ongoing channel for discussion. I have returned several times to their blogs and linked to many others from them. I plan to continue doing this. Understanding the potential pitfalls will keep me on my toes.  

10:51am • #47
419,938 Points 90 Featured Posts Outside Blog

All... thank you for your comments. I know many of you received personal attacks on your other blogs, and some inside AR. I think this is an important topic, how we handle those negative comments. Your blogs are professional, designed to attract eyeballs and hopefully business, so there should be an even greater desire to turn lemons into lemonade.

I just remembered that Broker Bryant wrote a post about this from a purely real estate perspective. Hello, John Q. Consumer. Welcome To Our World.  I think it would be beneficial for everyone to go back and take a look at that post. He details a few train wrecks that happened on other blogs.

He begins to close that post with this statement:

So please, watch what you say and watch who you say it to. Disagree, debate, have heated discussions but respect the person, always. You never know who's watching.

That post is one of the reasons why I fell in love with BB. Besides the fact he's so handsome. 

 

11:04am • #48
5 Featured Posts

Jeff & Rocky- congrats for being able to take the high road. I know I would have reacted just like Rocky. To be attacked about such a joyous occasion, would have been devastating to me. (Especially since I have been trying to have a child for 5 years now) But now that I see the other perspective I understand a bit more. I always try to see both sides of the coin. But this one would have been very tough for me.

You handled it with class, patience, and eloquence.

11:26am • #50
1 Featured Post

It has to be about the PARENTS as well as the CHILDREN, that's waht makes it a FAMILY. When it is right for the parents, and then they make it right for the children it is a beautiful thing.

There are people, bottom feeders, who want to bring everyone down to their level of misery. We don't need to attack them, they do more to themselves than we could ever do. We can pity them.

11:28am • #51
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This is the only blog I am a member of...or have been a member of.  It is the way I project myself is how I will be perceived.  The same goes for any scenario where someone "shoots back" comments in a negative way to only be perceived as just that.  Especially, when it comes from assuming (and I believe some control issues not to mention others expecting us to read their minds) and their not taking the time to understand that adoptive parents are as newbies on AR.  There are some things not understood to begin with.  Though you chose to take the "maybe I'll learn something" from this ...which you did....I would still have been very hurt by words (they say words will never hurt me...yeah, right) that were directed at me with attack in mind.  I believe there's a lesson to be learned in everything...negative, positive etc. It's the shock when knowing I did something from the heart....although as you said, it's inevitable to receive comments when doing so that I receive back such negativity.  I choose to email back...and see what's up...and keep it out of public comment when it is downright name calling and assuming in a VERY negative tone...and if it continues then delete.  This is just my choice...my opinion.

After talking about ME, and ME and ME and what I would do I would like to commend your family on what you are doing.  Happy Mother's Day to MOM....and there could be no better mom than one who has their own and wants to be one for other's who no longer have one. (it's not Dad's Day yet but you get a happy happy joy joy from me as well)                   From the heart?  YOU BET!!!!!!!!!! 

11:31am • #52
116,228 Points 7 Featured Posts Outside Blog

you know, life throws lessons our way.

 I think that you and Rocky  show wonderful companionship and faith to beable to work thru this together than to knee jerk a response like many of the comments you received. It was simply a lesson meant to happen. Doesnt it feel so much better to have resolved a simple language interpretation ? (remember I thought transparency meant shallowness- you taught me I was wrong!)

 You have given us all something to think about-as usual Jeff. Not to rush to judgement- listen to the other side it may not be as personal as you take it to be- and always look for the lesson it can teach you.

 God sometimes speaks in a whisper. Congrats. on the new additions to the family...you are great rolemodels for them.

11:31am • #53
2 Featured Posts Outside Blog Hit Router

What a wonderful post!  I would have been just as hurt initially.  Over the years I have learned that if I respond right away, it ends up being ugly.  I would have tried to take some time to fully digest the intent and then responded.  I totally agree with trying to understand their view.  At the same time it is ok to disagree!

Enjoy your treasures! 

11:41am • #54
9 Featured Posts

Do acidic comments get easier to handle as time goes on?  Or is it still more a matter of how close to home a comment lands?  Communication issues and misunderstood words have wreaked havoc between civilizations for thousands of years.  I'm not surprised to see it in the blogosphere.  I'm glad you didn't let it ruin your final adoption celebration. Congratulations to both of you and to your newly official adorable additions.

12:13pm • #55
266,676 Points 18 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Jeff - I'm so sad this happened to someone as caring as you. I have seen snide comments and sarcasm here on AR and like you said I choose to just ignore it. I personally choose to focus on the positive here and in life.  Wishing you and your family a special Mother's Day this Sunday! 
12:24pm • #56
361,538 Points 95 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff-I really admire you both! Why, you guys have gotten it!  It's all about humanity!!!  Ok I was an orphan, so what?  Who cares what I was called, the bottom line is I was going to be parentless.  The choices, Foster Care or Adoption Agency.  My parents not only raised me but my biological brother as well. 

I had parents, yes I can actually claim 3 mom's and two dad's.  My mom and dad now since I was 7, stepped up to the plate and raised me to be who I am today! While someone stated, they had parents, so did I but they DID NOT WANT ME!  Imagine that a life with parents who did not want me or my brother.

I believe there is lack of understanding, more so, knowledge of what goes on outside our own personal worlds.  Humans should drop the boundries for the sake of humanity. Two less parentless children in the world....and while they may had parents once, their parents didn't want them.  Fortunately you did!  Thank you God! 

To delete and/or ignore? You all did it right, address the differences and misunderstanding in a calm, respectful and kind manner.  Not everyone is alike, we all do not have the same morals, dreams and aspirations. It's ok not to agree or not understand, rather than attack or hurt someone's feelings, ask questions and realize you are dealing with another human being who might have the knowledge to teach you a thing or two.

P.S.  For the record, I think you both are very good looking people! Lysa agrees!

 

12:36pm • #57
2 Featured Posts

Jeff, as to what I would have done, I do not know. I tried to ask myself and got a little scared. I still have much growing to do. I know what I hope I would have done.

I think Stephen Covey called it something like "empathic listening". Trying to hear the words coming from the other side as if you were in their shoes. The world would be a better place if we just tried to do that, even if we didn't always succeed.

BTW, I think this is your best post yet.

12:43pm • #58
12 Featured Posts

Hi Jeff & Rocky,

I just went to try to read the post that started the flame war, I got to the comments and I had to stop.  Rocky's post was written not by her head or her hands but by her heart and anyone who was willing would have seen that. 

Congratulations on receiving the official legal sanction for what you have always been.  A family.  A real family is not only born but made.  If it were not, no husband would ever bond to their wife, no friend to another and no child to their parent. 

As for that nonsense about your daughter's not being American's, puhleeze, they are the essence of what it means to be an American.  All of us, every single one, even families who are descended from people who were indigenous to this part of the world, had to become American's. 

Being, or becoming a citizen of this country is the gilding on the lily, the cherry on the sundae and the icing on the cake.  Judging and deciding whether or not someone is truly American by the color of their skin or the origin of their birth is to deny the very essence of what this country has become and what makes it  great.  We aren't called the vast melting pot for nothing.  And what a wonderful stew we make.

As for how to handle negativity, I have been tempted in situations past, to deliver a blistering response, and believe me I am quite capable of it, but fortunately, thus far, I have always resisted the temptation.  I will rant and rave to my hubby or whomever will listen, flail about humphing and harumphing, gnash my teeth and stomp my feet and then, I will sit down and try to find the good in the bad.  The wheat in the chaff and, like you, the lining within the cloud. 

On rare occasions, I have been unable to do so and then I just try to find the strength within myself to remain silent.  I have also been known to not address the comment directly or even indirectly, but rather to address the situation as a whole, in effect answering the call to arms without ever picking up a stick.

Congratulations again on further opening the eyes of everyone around you about what kindness, generosity of spirit and love can do in a multitude of situations. 

Take care, help lots of people and have a wonderful day! 

Oh, and save a hard copy of your wife's post - not the comments necessarily, although you might wish to save it all, but if you do, keep the comments apart from the original post.  Someday when your daughters are grown and perhaps becoming mother's themselves, it will be a priceless record of the excitement, love and joy their family experienced and shared on the day when they became Americans.

Tisza

1:23pm • #59
Jeff,  Thank you for writing this blog.  I am new to blogging and am dreading the day that I receive a negative comment.  You have actually taught new bloggers a good lesson too.  I hope to remember your lessons when the situation comes up.
1:25pm • #60
12 Featured Posts

Oh, and one more thing...  I have remembered this poem since I was a very small child it's author is unknown...

Not flesh of my flesh,
Nor bone of my bone,
But still miraculously my own.
Don't forget for a single minute,
You grew not under my heart
But in it.

Take care and have a wonderful Mother's Day!

Tisza

1:32pm • #61
4 Featured Posts

Jeff - I guess I like to think I could have handled that situation so well but I know I wouldn't have.  And I know I would have regretted it later.  I have felt those feelings before and always say to myself that later on I will ast differently.  I still pray often that I have that kind of strength.

Your posts tend to amaze me with the strength and discipline that you and your family possess.  It is something the world can learn from.  

1:33pm • #62
419,938 Points 90 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Tisza... you have reduced me to a sobbing mass. Thank you.
1:41pm • #63
4 Featured Posts

Jeff,

First let me say...................CONGRATULATIONS!!!  Hold on you and your wife on on the ride of your life.

I really feel I can make a comment here because I have experienced both experiences that you just have enjoyed.

1.  Both of my wonderful fabulous children are "adopted."  I am their mother. I received my daughter when she was just three weeks old.  My son was less than a week old.  That was 40 and 35 years ago.  How can I tell you how wonderful it was and still is.  They have not only been my heart but my teachers.  I have a short story to tell you so you will understand.  While at the hospital unbeknownest to us, they gave my son the wrong formula and sent it home with me.  Long story short, it took the doctors and me three months to find out what was wrong with him.  On the last visit we had a new doctor and he was asking me family history questions.  I was answering them when all of a sudden it dawned on me that none of them mattered.  I looked up at him and said, "I forgot...he's adopted."  The doctor just laughed.  It's true, you do forget they are not biological.  Oh of course you tell them that they are adopted but on a daily basis you don't think about it.  THEY ARE "YOUR" CHILDREN and you are blessed.

 

2.  I lived in Guatemala for 10 years.  I knowwhat it is like there.  I have been out of an evening having dinner or at a party when a 2 year old comes up to you at mid-night or 1 AM and tries to sell you a rose for 10 centavos. And she is bare foot and dressed in rags.  I have tried to eat my dinner with their noses pressed against the window watching me stuff my face with more food than they will see in a year.  Yes, I've been there. GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR WIFE!

3. Jeff, you will never be able to understand some of the people in this world.  With some there is no amount of love, kindness or humor that will let them see into the pain racked depths of their souls.  They are to be pitied.  Even they don't know why they are so hateful and hurtful.  Don't let them cast a shadow on what is supposed to be the best time of your life.  Just love your babies and yourselves and let God work more in your life.  I know he will. :)

  

1:54pm • #64
212,327 Points 56 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Holy Cow - I'm off to read all those posts, I have some catching up to do....but you know me....my choice would have also been "try to understand their point of view", it's just the way I am.  I'll be back after I'm done.
2:08pm • #65
108,278 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Thank you for sharing this with us. I am very moved by your desire to understand where the anger was coming from and have learned a very valuable lesson about how to respond to anger.

Thank you both!

2:30pm • #66
419,938 Points 90 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Roberta... you  and Tisza owe me a new box of Kleenex. Your story is so true. I am amazed at how quickly and how deeply my love for them took hold. It's overwhelming. As for Guatemala... we did not live there, but we'll be back. Rocky will be back before I will. Hopefully to help install 10 UV water filtration systems in Guatemalan villages. The poverty there, as in many other countries around the world is simply at a whole different level. It's difficult to fully comprehend until you see it first hand. Thank you for your encouragement!

Ines... :) 

 

2:33pm • #67
1 Featured Post

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for brining it up. What a great discussion. It seems to me that people nowadays get offended by anything. You can't please them all.

Congratulations on the addition to your family and, Rocky, Happy Mother's Day!

2:39pm • #68
Congratulations, you handled it better than I would have.  Do you think the emotional other party got anything out of the discussion? 
3:08pm • #69
4 Featured Posts

Jeff,

More than 20 years ago I worked with the Guatemalan government to install the UV water filtration system in Lake Atitlan (I'm not sure of the spelling it's been awhile).  It was then dieing.  The people that lived on the lake wanted it badly, but it was hard to get the government get their Timbre's, impuesto and whose hands to grease together so it never went through.  We even had the company we were working with offer to send their people to Guatemala free of charge.  The unit came in several sized and capacities so it this one worked we could locate several smaller ones in the rivers.  I was so sad that it all fell through because a few wanted more money than we could come up with.  I do wish you and Rocky all the luck in the world in this endeavor.  I still love Guatemala and if I had the money to be self sufficient I would have a second home there. GOD BLESS.

 

4:01pm • #70
122,732 Points 16 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff, not sure if you'll see this through all of your comments but, we too adopted 2 sibilings from another country almost 2 years ago.  No, they were not technically orphans, but the parental rights had been terminated.  We are also in the process of adopting another sibling set, this time domestically, and yet again, though technically not orphans, the parental rights are terminated.

I understand the point of your post, but I also know that people just don't care about view points beyond their own (as evidenced by the inability to turn the thread around).  There are adoption haters (ones who believe that people only adopt because they can't have biological children), there are those that think it's only about the child to be adopted (in fact it's about all parties to the adoption) and there are those that think pouring money into a community such and such is better than providing a direct tangible better life for an individual.

People box other people up and keep everyone in the same box. 

4:10pm • #71
9 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff,

Congratulations on the offical adoption!!! How special this is...

Jonathan and I are seriously considering adoption as well as having our own children.  

I like the way you two handled it. Personal attacks can be very hurtful, but it helps nothing to return the retort... Intelligent engagement on the relevant topics produce better results! 

4:28pm • #72
121,298 Points 6 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I couldn't agree with you more. First instinct is usally to fire back. But the best way is to try and turn it into a good discussion. Once you shout a name back, it's a game and the whole point of the argument is lost!
6:20pm • #73
Outside Blog

First, congratulations on your beautiful family.  What a wonderful and happy time for all of you!  Mazel tov!

2nd.  I learned so much from your analysis of how to handle this blogging situation.  Life gives us opportunities every day to learn and and share.  Thank you!

3rd. Happy Mother's Day to Rocky!

6:40pm • #74
513,457 Points 52 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Jeff:  I never realized how hateful and mean people can really be until this week myself.  I head an Italian Greyhound adoption group myself and I was the target for internet harassment and threats this week ~ from local breeders.  I was called every name in the book and maligned.  I tried to understand their point of view but it is way out of line.  What do I do?  Ignore.

While it is not as personal as your story, it still hurts.  I am glad you and Rocky talked it through and found the right solution and it just shows your class.

6:50pm • #75
602,837 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog
Great comment thread Jeff. We really do have some amazing people on AR. Thanks everyone for sharing. Damn I love this place!!!!!
8:31pm • #76
189,150 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff, This is a small, small world. My friend and client who is on the process of adopting her second child was talking to me about this blog and was upset by some of the comments that some "mothers" left on (now I know) your wife's blog.

It is hard to tell you what I would have done. Men and women are so different. We tend to be so emotional and it is hard not to get upset over comments like that. But I am fortunate I guess (just like your wife) to have a husband who guides me to look at things rationally. 

8:59pm • #77
120,989 Points 22 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Jeff I am just so sorry that you two had to deal with that garbage.

You obviously took the high road, which is the right one.

I'm not sure what I would have done, honestly.  I suspect I'd have just deleted the bad comments, which is something I had to do on a blog of mine not so long ago....
9:05pm • #78
1 Featured Post
Jeff,
Great perspective on life and how to deal with unwarranted negative criticism.

On a brighter (though less important) note, I sent an agent your way today. They really wanted a virtual tour, and were not looking for video. I let them know that RES was a far better option than the spinning tours and sent them a follow up email with a link.

Take Care,
9:34pm • #79
4 Featured Posts
Great post and the comments are equally good...
11:01pm • #80
MAY
12
2007
123,570 Points 24 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Jeff and Rocky: Mere words fail me completely after reading this post. Perhaps the best I can do is join the chorusactive rain|active codgers, your active fans ©2007 Codger™ Images of support you’ve already received. I know that you will be enriched by, and enrich the lives of all your children.

 

Jay

3:23am • #81
419,938 Points 90 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Well... I've been enriched by this comment stream, I can tell you that. A visit by The Codgers is always special! This one very special. Thank you.

  

9:07am • #82
419,938 Points 90 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Roberta, I'm going to have my wife talk to you about your experience in Guatemala. Thank you for sharing so openly!
9:08am • #83
419,938 Points 90 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Everyone... the comments are coming faster than I can keep up. I hope the posts in the examples did the trick in showing what is possible when it comes to turning negativity around and making something good from something bad. In the midst of it, it was stressful. But the end result was worth it.
9:10am • #84
231,921 Points 39 Featured Posts Outside Blog
I would only consider how my children would feel reading it if it was still in cyberspace when they were able to read it.  If it would hurt them in any way, shape or form when they read it, I would delete it.  I might not be around to "explain it" to them later.
9:22am • #85
419,938 Points 90 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Ardell... I don't write anything I wouldn't be proud for my children to read.

Roberta... thank you. 

9:36am • #87
Oh, man... sorry you guys.  My wife and I have been attacked in the same manner... while I was never told that I "sounded unattractive," I was referred to as "looking like a pedophile" and "not deserving of being a parent."  This is because of a YouTube video that we did announcing ourselves as getting frustrated with the system and looking for help from the YT/worldwide community to find a baby.  This then turned into a bigger molehill that is better left unsaid at this point...

These folks are the PRIME definition of trolls when they come on to take away someone else's happiness because of their own pain.  I really wish they'd leave their problems on their own blogs and in their own community.

Congratulations to you both, and to your new family members.
rob
11:20am • #88
MAY
14
2007
419,938 Points 90 Featured Posts Outside Blog
Rob... thanks for stopping by. Alls well that ends well, I say. The process was grueling, but the result was very satisfying!
2:47pm • #89

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Jeff Turner

Santa Clarita, CA

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