Katerina Gasset ponders the possibility of banks being in violation of anti-trust laws if they conspire between each other to keep broker fees for short sale listings to a specific commission amount.  (Notice no specific commission amount or percentage is stated herein). 

WHAT A FASCINATING QUESTION.

Katerina.  HA!  I don't know a lot about anything.  I know a little bit about a lot.  I'm not an expert about anything.  I am, OTOH, a wealth of trivia due to my lifelong fascination with research. 

That said, I would guess that by conspiring to keep real estate commissions low, it if could be shown that it harmed the home owner by limiting the competition for their properties for sale, it makes sense. 

Anytime anyone conspires to fix prices to benefit themselves as a group, they harm someone else. 

It would be interesting for some smart anti-trust attorney to look into a class action model showing that the banks have forced many home owners into foreclosure by reducing competition for their properties listed for short sale. 

In fact, the announcement on the 25th establishes that Fannie Mae may believe that there has been a coordinated effort to reduce broker fees on short sales.  Otherwise it either wouldn't have been necessary or would have been published 2 years ago. 

Perhaps someone at Fannie Mae is reading ActiveRain. 

It wouldn't take much of an investigation to establish that the real estate fees have, in fact, been reduced by the heavy hand of the seller's bank through the short sale contingency.  I don't believe it would take much of an investigation to establish that it is severely harmful to sellers when agents don't show short sale listings because, although a specific co-op is offered, the banks routinely engage in acts to limit the real estate fee.  This causes properties to sit on the market buy limiting offers and often, if a home won't sell by short sale, it's not too far from foreclosure.  Many of us have witnessed that. 

Further, comments in the MLS will clearly establish links between banks through the listing agents REMARKS.  Funny thing about anti-trust.  IT ONLY TAKES TWO ENTITIES to establish an anti-competitive atmosphere for one group or another.  In this case, I'm not sure who the victim would be, the agents who lose fees or the home owner who loses sale opportunities.  Probably both.

What we don't know is, if banks are conspiring and if so, would it be massive enough to interest the FTC and/or DOJ.

The problem with these matters is that the wheels of justice turn slowly.  Very slowly.

It is fun speculating. 

 
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51 Comments on MOVING THE SHORT SALE DISCUSSION UP A NOTCH. ARE THERE ANTI-TRUST IMPLICATIONS?

MAR
01
157,481 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lenn, what banks are cutting commissions? Have not come across a commission cut yet but would be interested to see which banks actually tried to cut commissions

5:30pm • #1
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Jeff.  I'm not naming names.  That could be considered conspiring to limit competition between broker fees listing short sales.

A what a tangled web we weave.  It just gets better and better.

 

5:45pm • #2
157,481 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

No problem, I for one have never had a bank cut my fees, I hear alot of talk about it but I believe alot of it is just what agents think and not necessarily what really happened.

5:48pm • #3
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Lenn - Well, you and Katerina have certainly raised an intriguing question. It occurred to me as well. Wonder what the reality is? And will be?

Jeff

6:00pm • #4
212,994 Points 39 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Banks are guilty of much evil. The power position they hold in certain members of Congress, one particular one from Massachussets and another particular one from Connecticut, have given them a feeling of carte blanche in their operations. Just wait until they have finally dealt the death blow to that evil local business "the mortgage broker". Can anyone say unteathered monopoly? I'm guessing they also have a conspiracy in place to take over and eliminate the local real estate agent - the NAR just has more money to fight them than the NAMB. I'm not afraid of them (or ACORN) but I'm just one voice.

6:02pm • #5
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Lenn, Banks do NOT cut commissions. They do however limit what closings costs they are willing to pay out of their money. In my opinion banks MUST have a say so in this. I mean where do you draw the line? Would it be fair for me to list a short sale at 12% and expect the bank to just agree to that figure on the HUD? Of course not.

Commissions are agreed between the listing broker and the seller. The bank has no say so in this at all. If the bank will only allow 5% to come out of THEIR money then the part of the commission this does not cover can come from the seller if I choose to hold them to it.  

6:09pm • #6
323,025 Points 40 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lenn--You are always thinking...even on a Sunday evening. Good food for thought.

Bryant makes a good point about having some control but it is frustrating when a reasonable commission is offered and the banks attempt to renegotiate the commission to a much lower amount than normal or listed in the MLS before accepting the deal.

It is interesting in our market that when a home is bankowned, the commission rate is often higher than the norm and now FreddieMac just offered a $1000 bonus on all sales.

6:15pm • #7
157,481 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I know an agent that just sold a foreclosure in Detroit for $900.00 and the bank paid him $1000.00 to sell it. Go figure!

I do agree with Bryant that the banks are NOT cutting commission but I will put my foot in my mouth if someone can show me where their fees were cut

6:44pm • #8
1 Featured Post Outside Blog Hit Router

None of what you say would surprise me. Remember when Glass-Steagall changed. Do you think that the SEC is the only agency that needs to be revamped? ...that was a rhetorical question. Thanks for another post induces head-scratching. Take care.

6:53pm • #9
199,401 Points 7 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Lenn, I see Bryant's point of view.  Commission is agreed on between seller and realtor.  But the banks can not expect us to work for less than what we normally charge. 

I do like the idea of charging the seller the difference.  Short sales take a lot of time from start to close.  However, if I have to send a HUD1 to the bank to get approval for the sale, it would have to include the difference in commission.  Would the banks approve the sale, if they see the seller can pay the commission?

6:57pm • #10
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Lenn...

This is an interesting argument ... as you know ... I go crazy when I think about a bank reducing a commission. I would like to some accountability here!

6:59pm • #11
277,346 Points 3 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

What an interesting thought!  Fortunately, banks are one of the trade groups which are even less popular with Washington regulatory bureaucrats than us rich real estate agents...

7:14pm • #12
576,721 Points 47 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Hi Lenn, I see banks pushing for fee reductions and some not willing to pay fees above a certain amount as their policy...agents can show them or walk.  The listing agreement on the MLS states how much a buyers agent will be compensated.  It does not state how much the selling broker will be compensated.  This means a published commission amount would have to be paid by the listing broker to the selling broker regardless of what the bank worked out with the selling broker.  So the loser is the Listing broker....who takes a listing and then negotiates away his compensation.  The problem thickens when you consider your fiduciary responsibility to the seller.  Do you take less to sell or do you write an addendum to have the seller who is on the brink of foreclosure pay the difference as Kay mentioned?  That is if the seller can pay.  The other issue is the listing contract itself...we encounter non-standard forms which means our normal forms are out the window and new ones take their place at the time of an offer.  That is when things change.  Nice thought provoking post.

7:23pm • #13
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Aren't you all forgetting that the reason for a short sale is because the seller has no money to pay the bank, let alone the realtor? Going after the seller is great in theory, but not very practical.

Many, many agents are having their commissions in my area - and because the banks refuse to pay over a certain amount, yes for closing costs. Some agents have started putting a 1% "marketing fee" on the HUD, in addition to their commission, with the bank then agreeing to pay a lower commission, but all of the marketing fee.

All in all very frustrating.

7:23pm • #14
Outside Blog

I'm so tired of all the conspiracy theories, sooo depressing.  I can understand why people would think that and then on the flip side BB has a great point.  The commission is coming out of the banks money but if the house doesn't sell and goes into foreclosure it hurts the Seller. I mean under normal circumstances the Seller wouldn't let the bank, or anyone else, decide on the commission since it would lower their net.  Something creative has to happen to remedy that one. 

7:41pm • #15
4 Featured Posts

Maybe the banks are spearheading the revolution of paying Realtors what they are worth.

That being said, we have NEVER had a commission reduced. Wouldn't care if they did. More business (closings) than we can handle. This is the greatest real estate market ever!

7:48pm • #16
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Bryant- I have to disagree with the statement that banks do not cut commissions. The noteowner may not cut the commission. The banks do decide most of the time which closing costs they will pay but there are 3 servicers who ALWAYS call us when they get one of our files and say to us,

" I am looking at your listing agreement and you can not charge X to the seller for listing commission. The commission you agree to must be Y and we are sending you an addendum to your listing agreement that you must sign." 

In that form there are also many other "reasons for us NOT to earn a commission".

We then tell them, "put your legal department on the line and we will discuss your policy of interefering with a contractual relationship between us and our seller."

Then these certain ones say, " Just tell us now if you don't agree so that we can deny the short sale right now."

This actually happens with 3 servicers. Now the reason they are doing this is because the negotiators at these certain firms are making a commission on the sale too. Their commission only happens if ours is less so that is where they can get theirs from.

Do they have a right to do this? NO. Do they have the right to turn down a short sale? YES.

Now, the good news is that these 3 servicers - a huge bulk of their notes they service are owned by Fannie Mae! That means on those notes they no longer can do this illegal scam! 

We always ask the homeowner to find out who their note owner is before we take a listing.

Katerina

8:02pm • #17
123,560 Points 8 Featured Posts

It's the old Robinson-Patman Act.

The act essentially prohibits manufacturers and other companies from conspiring with each other in the setting of prices. It also prohibits a company from forcing a distributor or retailer to sell the manufacturer's product at a set price. That's why you see Suggested Manufacturer's Retail Price, 'Suggested' being the operative word. However, manufacturers often impose a minimum advertised price policy, anyway.

Ever notice how online retailers often hide the sale price--especially of a big-ticket item--until the consumer puts the item into the cart? This is one of the ways of getting around that minimum advertised price policy manufacturers place on them.

Banks can't really say they're limiting commissions to 5%, or conspire with each other to do so. They simply follow each other's examples while explaining it away as bottom line preservation.

Real estate companies use the same tactic. Certainly they don't conspire with each other, but they are well aware of their competitors' business practices.

 

8:35pm • #18
700,285 Points 72 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

I think a lot of agents who do lots of short sales are going to have to negotiate with the buyers they are representing to get paid.  Novel thought!

9:22pm • #19
222,226 Points 12 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lenn-  The wheels turn so slowly - its hard to see them even turn!

9:40pm • #21
654,037 Points 104 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Lenn- And I think that anti trust is just to protect consumers. If agents are not considered customers than they would just argue that they are not violating the Sherman act because they are just doing this to agents and not consumers.

Thanks for answering and adding your thoughts to this question. Great topic for discussion:)

9:53pm • #22
369,056 Points 110 Featured Posts Outside Blog

It is always nice to stop by Lenn's place to see what is cooking!  Interesting thought and probably good ambulance chaser ammo.  Anyone know one?  We can put him on it!

kk

11:24pm • #23
MAR
02

Fannie has now announced that effective March 1, 2009, the approval and closing of short sales will not be conditioned on the willingness of the listing firm to alter its fee arrangement with the borrower, as long as the total commission does not exceed 6%. The official guideline is set out below.
No Negotiation of Preforeclosure Sales Commission
Servicing Guide, Part VII, Section 504.02: Contacting Selected Borrowers
 
Effective March 1, 2009, closing of preforeclosure sales may not be conditioned upon a reduction of the total commission to be paid to real estate agents to a level below what was negotiated by the listing agent with the borrower, unless the fee exceeds 6 percent of the sales price of the property in the aggregate. Servicers are reminded that they must continue to obtain any approvals that may be required by interested third parties in connection with preforeclosure sales.
I will be interested to see whether Freddie Mac and other mortgage holders follow suit, and will let you know as soon as we know.

Information received from Virginia Association of REALTORS®

Kathi H Robinson
12:37am • #24
156,124 Points

Lenn,

You are an interesting person, full of a vast knowledge of real estate, probably through countless transactions and years in this business. Your comments are wonderful. You can cut right to the chase and tell it like it is - I really like that!

As for the topic of the post - it is a tangled web we or they weave - let's not get caught in it.

12:53am • #25
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Jeff P.  It happens.  7 of the short sales agents in my network have been "presented" with reduced fees.  They went along to get to settlement.  They know how to collect after closing. 

Jeff D.  Probably nothing.  As always, real estate agents are a disparate group.   The only way we have any clout is through the NAR and you know they the likelihood of them taking this one up.   NAR has don't nothing of which I am aware to break the logjam of short sales.  If the NAR was watching this, ActiveRain member agents and brokers would have been sent bullitins from our local associations about the Fannie Mae announcement on the 25th.  ActiveRain members watch out for each other.

Ken C.  You wrote:  The power position they [banks] hold in certain members of Congress, one particular one from Massachussets and another particular one from Connecticut, have given them a feeling of carte blanche in their operations.

Ken.  YOU ARE 100% CORRECT.   Except that I would suggest that the members of Congress, Rep. Barney Frank and Senator Dodd have given the banks not only carte blanche but the money to carry out their nefarious deeds.   (It's O.K. to name members of Congress). 

4:07am • #26
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Bryan.  You wrote:  Lenn, Banks do NOT cut commissions.

I disagree.  When a bank must approve a Contract of Sale in a short sale and they condition that approval on the reduction of the total real estate commission paid, they are cutting the listing commission. 

The suggestion that a listing broker could charge 12% is not what causes the problem.  In the real world, the banks and even Fannie Mae have a 6% limit on real estate commissions.  We're not dealing with 12% total listing fees.  We're dealing with 5-6% numbers, which the banks often will require be reduced by 1-2% to get their approval of a short sale. 

Then we get to the next matter of the 50/50 fig newton.  The entire process stinks and is an example of how the banks are controling the short sale process by a carrot and stick approach to enhancing their bottom line by lowering ours.  However, banks have other ways of compensating for such losses through the tax laws they've lobbied through Congress over many years.  A single real estate broker or agent does not. 

 

4:18am • #27
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Teri.  Offered whom the $1000???????   Not us.

Jeff P.  The banks never put it in writing.  They do it by phone, through the listing agent who calls the buyer's agent and says, "We have an approval, but the bank says that they will only permit XXX% real estate fee."  The agent has no choice but to agree in order to get to the closing table."  The listing agent, with some exceptions (Bryant Tutas for one), then reverts to the 50/50 commission split and all both brokers have lost.   

If that isn't "cutting commissions" what is it?? 

This isn't semantics.  This is a real reduction in fees engineered by the bank who had third party approval.  They know what our fees are and they know that they hold the approval cards and they know that agents aren't going to sacrifice a sale. 

What they have accomplished is a slow deterioration of the sanctity of the CO-OP system that has served us well for 50 years.

 

4:26am • #28
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Michael.  You get a  for that reminder.  That single act of Congress began the bank takeover of our economy.  Of course, they got greedy and choked on it.  But, that's another story for which we can thank Congress, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act gave the banks the power to do just what the did, pocket vast Trillions of profits and bring down the economy of the world. 

 

4:34am • #29
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Kay.  When we begin to talk about "seller paying the commission", we lose sight of the millions of homes that will be foreclosed if these short sales are not closed. 

Compare the resources of the banks to the average short sale owner.  The banks have vast resources, even the ones on the verge of failure.  What are the resources of the average short sale owner????    Hardly the place to go for resources.

Richard.  We all would.  We all would.

Brian.  I'm not sure of that.  Banks still make huge contributions to Congressional coffers.

Gary.  All very good points.  I am still focused on the preservation of the co-op system upon which our industry has thrived for many decades.  By permitting the banks to dictate what we are paid from a transaction and the listing brokers "passing the losses on" to the buyer's agents, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

4:41am • #30
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Dee.  I agree.  Going after the seller for shortfalls in a short sale is just making one more American with no resources, ruined credit and a family in financial ruin for many years.

That is the epitome of kicking a person when they are down. 

Krista.  What you described is the bank holding the seller hostage to their own bottom line.  Mmmmm.

 

4:47am • #31
841,790 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

KATERINA.  YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE THAT ONE A POST.  EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ IT. 

 

4:48am • #32
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Judy.  There is a BIG difference.  Our co-op fees are published.  I don't know of any bank policy with respect to real estate fees and short sales that is published anywhere. 

Which is why the subject of this post, anti-trust, is so fascinating. 

Is it mere coincidence that many banks follow suit in limiting real estate fees in short sale approvals?????

I don't believe in coincidences.

 

4:52am • #33
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Patricia.  How much blood can be squeezed out of a turnip???

Carolyn.  Thanks.  My hero!

James.  Right you are.

Katerina.  Right you are, which is why the focus is untimately on the harm done to the consumer/home owner when a short sale fails and the house goes to foreclosure. 

Sadly, the American home owner is at the very bottom of the list of recipients of help from this government.  The Banks are at the top.

 

4:56am • #34
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Kristal.  As I've said many times, "life is an adventure". 

Keith.  Thanks for the re-read.  That's what sparked this entire thread since the 25th of Feb.

Sandy.  Thanks.  Years of practice and many, many transactions and a thirst for knowledge is all it takes. 

 

5:00am • #35
614,608 Points 244 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Katerina, I had a servicer try that recently, I think it was AHS, they just went on and on about how they wiuld only allow 5% of they would not accpet the deal. It was a FannieMae. I asledher if she had the final decision on the file and she said know that fannie mae did. I told her to just submit it the way I had written it(6% + 1% for  costs) fannie approved it and it closed.

I do hear what you are saying though. The scenario you mentioned does happen. Just another reason why I get some of mine up front.

5:08am • #36
Outside Blog

Lenn: Great conversation and full of insight. We are living in an interesting time.

6:50am • #37
140,456 Points 4 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Interesting thoughts and comments.  The little guy is the one that will get the short end of the deal.  

7:27am • #38
253,318 Points 22 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Very interesting.  I have to disagree with this The problem with these matters is that the wheels of justice turn slowly.  Very slowly.  I think they often turn backwards if you ask me, LOL. Serously by the time theycould forma committee and look into this the banks would be off doing something else.

7:40am • #39
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Paddy.  Very true.  Very true.  The only time the government works with any kind of speed was when they hand out $Billions to banks and insurance companies.  They usually take about a weekend to decide to hand out anywhere from $30,000,000,000 as with AIG this last weekend to the $350,000,000,000 to the banks last December.  Yep, they can move quickly when they want to.

Mark.  Sadly that is true.

Gwenn.  Intersting to day that least.

 

8:06am • #40
323,025 Points 40 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Lenn--Yep--Selling agents. Sending email to you.

8:49am • #41
603,741 Points 111 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Lenn: I emailed our Board, our Association and Real Estate Commission to get the scoop. Can you believe that the only ones who replied were the REC people? They told me to consult a real estate attorney.

10:52am • #42
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Teri. Got is.  Thanks.  Done.  They said they'd send a list every Thursday. 

Sally.  I wouldn't expect any of the real estate entities to have any interest.  I would suspect that only a Class Action Firm attorney or the FTC would have any interest.  Perhaps a states attorney, but not likely.

 

12:48pm • #43
100,293 Points 5 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Being muscled before, you are made to choose between compliance or rejection. Choosing rejection stops the three card monty. but puts in jepordy the transaction. In a stacked deck the odds are always with the dealer. Yell foul and you're out of the game

5:58pm • #44
MAR
03
841,790 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Claude.  I'm not sure about what you said.  That said, if it's the banks that do the muscling, you're right. 

5:04am • #45
872,828 Points 68 Featured Posts Outside Blog

I would love to see the govenment act on this, but it will never happen. They would rather spend time on making sure NAR is showing addresses to the public and that Realtors are getting richer.

Maybe NAR should send the stats that show the average American real estate agent qualifies for food stamps, then maybe something would be done.

 

11:37am • #46
387,676 Points 28 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

 I had only one bank cut our commission below traditional last year. With the new Fannie Mae requirements, providing the existing loan is Fannie Mae, that won't happen again. I'm finding, though, that most banks recognize the work that goes into a short sale, especially by an agent who brings a dozen offers to the table and sells that home substantially over list price.

Sacramento short sale agent

11:47am • #47
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Todd, Todd, Todd. 

The NAR isn't interested in Realtors getting richer. 

They are interested in growing the number of Realtors.

More Realtors more dues.

More Realtors, less income for each.

11:48am • #48
841,790 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

Elizabeth.  For the banks that monitor the success of their short sales, that would apply.

 

11:50am • #49
MAR
05

Lenn, interesting to hear about the commissions. One more issue that seems to make otherwise lucrative short sales a pain. Hopefully this will change in the months to come. There are a great number of amazing deals to be had for investors in this field. And the more attractive the banks will make these deals for sellers, buyers and agents alike, the faster we will get rid of the surplus inventory.

5:17pm • #50
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S.A.

So far have we come.  So far have we yet to go.  Winston Churchill

5:27pm • #51

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