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2 Prong outlets

By Mike (Inspector Mike) Parks

Home Inspector with Inspector Mike #2116

March 02, 2009 07:30 AM

Recently I was ask if you had to rewire to install 3 prong outlets.

Yes you can but you do not need to do so. The reason for this question was because some home improvement experts and some Home Inspectors claim that you must rewire to install these outlets (receptacles). 406.3(D)(3) of The NEC® (National Electrical Code®).

Rewiring could run into the $1000's of dollars. This can be remedied for under $15.00.

Very simply you install a GFCI 'outlet' at the first point (outlet) on the circuit. Then you can install the 3 prong 'outlets' down stream. You must also add to the 'outlets' the sticker that says "No Equipment Ground" to the cover plate.

If you do not understand this then please contact a licensed electrical contractor! This is meant for general information and not for the do-it-yourselfer.

Remember how something is called out and how you put it in a request to remedy could make or break your deal!!!!

http://activerain.com/blogsview/927114/CSST-Revisited-in-Ohio

http://activerain.com/blogsview/871331/Why-electrical-inspections-are-needed

http://activerain.com/blogsview/935595/Is-your-new-home-built-properly

http://activerain.com/blogsview/874120/Understanding-Trusses

http://www.yourhomesok.com/why_us.htm

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Mike (Inspector Mike) Parks

Inspector Mike - Circleville, OH

Inspector Mike

I should have explained this.

The third wire, the equipment grounding conductor, is just that. For equipment protection.
A GFCI is for personnel (people).
That is why it is safe to install a GFCI on a 2 wire system.
The 'white' wire is the 'grounded' conductor. So a ground is present.

I know this is confusing! Electricians sometimes do not understand this.

Mar 04, 2009 08:51 AM

Not a real person

San Diego, CA

I have had many a Client in an older home opt for the GFCI route. It's convenient and inexpensive. I also warn them, though, that they shouldn't be using their computer, plasma television, etc., on that GFCI-modified circuit.

Mar 07, 2009 06:56 AM

Darren Miller

About The House - Succasunna, NJ

Doesn't the plug have 'prongs' and the receptacles have 'slots'?

Shouldn't it be called a 2-slot receptacle?

Mar 23, 2009 08:53 AM

Mike (Inspector Mike) Parks

Inspector Mike - Circleville, OH

Inspector Mike

Yes and an outlet is a box not the recpt.,switch or any other device.

Mar 23, 2009 09:33 AM

Mike Schulz

Affordable Home Inspections - Raleigh, NC

Raleigh NC Inspector

Mike I think this was a good post. I hope more read it. Most people would try to figure out a bootleg ground.

Mar 31, 2009 01:40 AM

Michael Greenwalt

MGI Home Inspection - Junction City, KS

Kevin,

It may help to post the "incorrect information" that is being provided that kills the deal. I could assume to know what you are eluding to but I don't want to do that. I would hope inspectors recommend consulting with an electrician to determine an appropriate course of action but inspector comments are definately varied.

Second, Why is it a hazard to connect Plasma's, computers to GFCI's on older two wire systems?

Thanks

Jul 03, 2009 12:27 PM

Denny West

Top To Bottom Inspection Services - North Baltimore, OH

I donbt get it The last GFC outlet I tested showed No ground and when I tested the operation and it diodnt trip . Opened up the wall plug counted the wires and found only two and no ground .To me that means no ground . To my client I suggest they get an evaluation by a lisc Electriacian and that the proper repairs if any be confirmend and made by him Or her . I also call out Federaol Pacific panel boxes . send to a web site and let them decide . its that simple . I dont do electrical repairs I jsut inspect and report by my knowlage trough training . as an expert Home inspector . Not an electrician .

Aug 24, 2009 01:07 AM

Denny West

Top To Bottom Inspection Services - North Baltimore, OH

For got to hit spellcheck Sorry

Aug 24, 2009 01:08 AM

Mike (Inspector Mike) Parks

Inspector Mike - Circleville, OH

Inspector Mike

First the tester is an indicator not an approved testing device. The only approved method for testing is at the device.

What is probably missing is the equipment grounding conductor not the 'ground'.

Opening devices is not part of a home inspection.

A lic. electrician is NOT allowed to evaluate the electric (in Ohio).

Aug 25, 2009 12:13 AM

Jim Allhiser

Perfection Inspection, Inc. - Salem, OR

Salem, Oregon Home Inspector

Great post Mike.

"A lic. electrician is NOT allowed to evaluate the electric (in Ohio)" What does that mean??

Sep 05, 2009 10:00 AM

Mike (Inspector Mike) Parks

Inspector Mike - Circleville, OH

Inspector Mike

Jim

I am an electrical contractor (OH.Lic. #26286) and am not allowed to do: http://www.yourhomesok.com/electrical_safety_inpections.htm

Lic. #'s displayed as required by http://www.yourhomesok.com/oclib.htm

Sep 06, 2009 12:02 AM

Denny West

Top To Bottom Inspection Services - North Baltimore, OH

I M sorry Mike having a system checked and evaluated by a lisc, Electrician is what we suggest as home inspectors I cant make repair suggestion only reffer the client to and electrician that can better determine the system and its proper grounding and set up . If an electriacian cant do that then where do you or who do you get to do that A Plumber ? . come on why do some people have to challange everybody . cant we all work to gether .

Oct 29, 2009 02:21 AM

Nikki Marlatt-Young

At Ease Home Inspections - Arbutus, MD

Housing & Rental Inspections

I agree with Kevin Corsa & Denny West!

Handyman Home Owner / Do It Yourself kind of person is what gets people killed!

Its scary opening panels anymore... you never know what Uncle / Aunt Handyman Home Owner has done in there themselves.

Oct 29, 2009 08:07 AM

Mike (Inspector Mike) Parks

Inspector Mike - Circleville, OH

Inspector Mike

Denny

You may want to contact your attorney and ask him to look at Ohio law and get his opinion NOT mine.

Nikki

Yes it is dangerous. You just need to know when not to open it and defer to an expert.

Oct 29, 2009 12:48 PM

Anonymous

Michael Greenwalt, CRI

As home inspectors we should stay in our lane. If we identify a fault our report should refer the client to the licensed electrician and let that contractor give the client or seller the options for repairs and let the client or seller make the decision.

Telling them to install GFCI's or where to wire, or how is not in our lane. Home inspectors who go beyond identifying faults and recommending the appropriate contractor set themselves up for litigation and may inadvertantly kill the deal just as bad as providing wrong information.

In some cases, such as structural, recommending any type of repair is in violation of most state's laws and requires a licensed structureal engineer. That goes for code enforcment officials as well.

Mike is right about one thing, contact your attorney and let them give you the correct advice. That is always what I do and well worth the costs.

Oct 30, 2009 02:52 AM

#22

Steven Turetsky

Comprehensive Building Inspections & Consultants - Staten Island, NY

Building Moisture Analyst

Hi Folks,

I haven't been around AR in a while and decided to stop by. I find this blog interesting, but am a bit confused. Are you for it or against it? Or were you for it before you were against it?

Installing a GFI will protect an outlet that is not grounded, but it will not protect the equipment.

Sooooo, as a home inspector I do NOT consider an ungrounded, GFI protected outlet acceptable. OK, I did encounter a home with some outlets that had been added without hooking up the grounding conductor. Because this was not an inspection (repair for an ex), I simply connected the grounds. One outlet was run with Romex that had no ground. I installed a GFI and marked the outlet . In this limited situation, I felt it was ok, since it was a single outlet.

In another home (an inspection this time), I discovered a number of electrical problems, including a majority of ungrounded 2 prong outlets and ungrounded 3 prong outlets. This was a 2 family home. One service was grounded, one was not. In this case, I recommend having a licensed electrician evaluate and upgrade the system. I warned about the safety factor and damaging certain equipment. In today's day and age, the electrical system in a home should be computer friendly. If it is not, it should be clearly stated.

So, why is it OK in one situation and not in another? Although safety is a major issue, so is quality of life. I do not feel that the GFI fix makes the need for grounded outlets go away. For an agent to feel that the GFI fix will "save" a "killed" deal is wrong. The client should know all of the facts. To make them believe that the GFIs make it OK, is misleading.

It is the duty of a home inspector to educate the client as to what they are buying. If the client still wants the home, for whatever reason, including because the deal merits the investment of the upgrade... so be it. The seller can also pay for the upgrade. If neither wants to make it happen, I do not feel that the Home Inspector killed the deal. Perhaps the deal committed suicide. If the client wishes to discuss the problem further and wants to know if there are any solutions until he can have the upgrade done, I would let him know about the GFI "partial" fix.

Nov 12, 2009 04:24 PM

Anonymous

Michael Greenwalt, CRI

I guess the question is really, as a home inspector am I for recommending on my report that the receptacles are upgraded to GFCI type or do I recommend consulting with a licensed competent electrician?

I would never recommend to the client that they simply "uprgade to GFCI" type receptacles. This would (in my mind) infer to the client that it was either a "simple" home remedy or that it could be accomplished by a homeowner. Both inferences would be incorrect in most cases. Knowing how to install GFCI's is not simple and they may "not" protect downstream circuits as mentioned before (in regards to multi-wired circuits and the need for 240v GFI's or other applications). There are too many questions to be answered by a qualified electrician prior to installing GFI's and most homeowners do not have that expertise.

As well, clients should know that the installation of a GFI may not provide service for some equipment. That is, certain electronics (certain florescent lamp ballast, photocells, surge supressors and timers) need an effective ground path to operate correctly.

So my recommendation will remain a recommendation of consulting with a licensed, competent electrician. Suffice it to say that the repair will not be made for $15 dollars, at least with any electrician I know.

But, for an inspector to state that a re-wire is necessary would be incorrect. To say that an electrician should determine the best method of upgrade would be correct; in my opinion.

Nov 13, 2009 03:30 AM

#24

Anonymous

Top To Bottom Inspection Services

As A Nachi Certified Home inspector we are trained with a very intensive Electrical training courses they teach us how to Inspect the electric panel box how to determine the Proper size Of wire needed . Proper grounding . Sub panels , GFCI , And many inspection tips all set with NEC code . I have a book Just for electrical that I carry with me all the time just incase there are any doubts or questions. My last Recall On two prong outlets is that they were Ok for the time period theywere installed How ever with all the new electronic gadgets . Computers HD TV, In older homes with knob and Tube . We all know that they dont have the proper Ground . About the GFC why install one if it wont protect equipment . why install one when you know there is no Ground. and testing a wall out let with that little Plug tester is what allot of us do . when it indacates open ground we call it , or hot neuteral reverse we call it and so on . I usally dont say how to, fix I point the client in the right direction to a state Lisc electrician for proper repairs and a more accurate Diagnoses . As A home inspector we are trained in all areas of the home . not just electrical . Code is code But a home inspection is an in depth Look at the home or property. Its great to be a lisc electrian and a home inspector. but that dose not mean you are always right. Quit being so big headed and know this There are allot of good home inspectors out there that know what they are talking about . And NACHI inspectors are one of the best.

Jan 11, 2010 11:35 PM

#25

Mike (Inspector Mike) Parks

Inspector Mike - Circleville, OH

Inspector Mike

"We all know that they dont have the proper Ground"

First the 'white' wire is the 'grounded' conductor. It is the ground.

The bare wire is the equipment grounding conductor. Its purpose is to effectively clear a fault NOT to protect the equipment.

"About the GFC why install one if it wont protect equipment . why install one when you know there is no Ground."

A GFCI will provide 'some' protection but its purpose is for the protecting of people not equipment.

"As A Nachi Certified Home inspector we are trained with a very intensive Electrical training courses they teach us how to Inspect the electric panel box how to determine the Proper size Of wire needed . Proper grounding . Sub panels , GFCI , And many inspection tips all set with NEC code ."

Maybe your intensive training should be extensive instead.

"more accurate Diagnoses"

No disagreement there.

"Quit being so big headed"

So being qualified and knowledgeable makes be "big-headed". OK.

Jan 12, 2010 01:30 AM

Jim Watzlawick

Watz Home Inspections - Algonquin, IL

Watz Home Inspections

Thanks Mike, I think the information that you provided here is a benifit to many people and no you are being big headed.

Jun 10, 2011 05:52 AM