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An Open Letter to Leslie Stahl - 60 Minutes on their Red Fin Report

By
Property Manager with Watson Realty Corp. BK697040

I don't usually get so worked up over a 60 Minutes Report, it's one of my favorite shows.  Tonight, however, I couldn't believe the things Leslie Stahl was insinuating on her "Red Fin" discount internet real esate report and the demise of the 6% commission.  If you missed it you can see it at CBS 60 minutes.

Following is a copy of the letter I sent to 60 Minutes.  I hope more of you will let them know you opinion.

"Leslie,    

I'm really disappointed in you and 60 Minutes after seeing your report on Red Fin, the internet real estate discounter.  First of all on YOUR website you have a Coldwell Banker logo saying they are your sponsor.  I'm sure Coldwell Banker won't be real happy about this report or the fact that when you finally got a Realtor's view point it was a Re/Max agent.     

You should get your information straight as a journalist, especially one on TV.  It is ILLEGAL to fix commission rates.  They are ALWAYS negotiable.  While 6% is traditionally a norm, it is not a fixed rate.  If a home is not going to need as much work, time, advertising and marketing to get sold, then certainly the commission should be negotiated down before the listing agreement is signed.     

Commissions can also be variable, meaning on a very expensive home you can charge one percentage for the first million and a lower percentage for the second million and so on.  A lot of agents today will lower the commission if they find the buyer and do not have to split the commission with another broker.     

Are the internet discounters really getting the best possible price for the home?  If they don't even see the house how are they giving value to the condition and upgrades (or lack of them).  And what about disclosures regarding things that could affect the value or future value of the home?  Who is really looking out for that seller?       

If they put the listing on the MLS, who is paying the buyer's agent.  Since Red Fin only charges $3,000 to list the house, do the sellers have to cough up more money to pay the buyer's agent or do they not put the home on the MLS making it available to other "traditional" real estate agents?    

What happens if the house doesn't sell?  The seller has most likely already paid their $3,000.  Do they get it back?  A "traditional" real estate agent never gets paid a penny if the house doesn't sell.  Therefore, they're making an investment with every listing having to pay for advertising, marketing, open houses, gas, etc. out of their own pocket.  Don't you think that gives them a pretty good incentive to get that house sold?      

And what about the buyers who go through Red Fin?  Yes, they may get some money in their pockets at the closing, but do they know all the details they should know about the home?  Do they know it was the best home at the best price for them?  Who is going to help them when they have a problem 6 months down the road? Who is telling them that the road the home is on is due for widening or that it is being considered for rezoning to commercial?     

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in free enterprise and I do believe that the internet is making a major change in the way everything is bought and sold including real estate.  However, there will always be a need for the "traditional" broker/agent as many people will not have the time or inclination to worry about strangers coming in to look at their home, holding open houses, making flyers, etc.  What I resent is the way you made it sound like real estate agents are money hungry, over paid, sharks who do nothing to earn their fat pay checks.  Most of us are very hard working, caring people who take pride in helping homeowners with their most valuable asset - their home.  When you consider the hours we put in and the expenses we have (on behalf of the seller) our hourly wage would really surprise you. 

 Sincerely,     

Elizabeth Ruvo
Broker Associate/Office Manager
All Florida Realty Services Port St. Lucie, Florida"

Robin Willis
eXp Realty - Tucson, AZ
CDPE, SRES, Associate Broker
Thank you for your thoughtful and dignified response to the 60 Minutes report.  It is a shame what the media will stoop to in order to get ratings.  And they say we're the scam artists??!!??
May 18, 2007 09:48 AM
Elizabeth Ruvo
Watson Realty Corp. - Ormond Beach, FL
BA, CRB

Jack - I hadn't thought of that, but you're right.  The networks probably do spend more time on researching their dramas than they do real life!

Gail - When I started in 2000 we were getting 7% because the value of our homes was so low.  However, as the values went up the commissions went down.  Now, sometimes we even give a higher split to the buyer's agent for more of an incentive to get the home shown. 

Robin - thanks for your nice words.  

It will be interesting to see if 60 Minutes mentions the number of letters they have received this week.  I know it's got to be one of the most responded to reports they've ever had.

May 18, 2007 01:05 PM
Daniel Bates
MCVL Realty - McClellanville, SC
McClellanville and Awendaw, SC
The NAR's response was good, however I still question whether or not they are doing everything they can to improve the image of Realtors.  Most of us pay them quite a lot of money for very little service (Does this argument sound familiar...maybe I should Leslie Stahl to do a hard hitting investigation on where my NAR dues go).  I believe they were aware of the news story and when they were not reached for contact should have made a bigger effort to ensure that the voice of the nation was being heard.
May 19, 2007 05:41 AM
Billy Runyan
Windermere Prestige Properties - Green Valley, NV
- Professional Property Expert at Windermere
Ditto!  I wrote them a letter too!  Great job.
May 19, 2007 06:17 AM
Billy Runyan
Windermere Prestige Properties - Green Valley, NV
- Professional Property Expert at Windermere

I just found this on Inman News:

Redfin fined $50,000 over home-review sites
'Sweet Digs' blogs violate MLS policy

Seattle-based online discount brokerage company Redfin, under pressure from the multiple listing service, has pulled the plug on its Web logs offering reviews of properties for sale.

The broker-owned listing service, Northwest MLS, of which Redfin is a member, ruled that the reviews violated its regulations against advertising other brokers' listings. The MLS has issued a $50,000 fine to Redfin and threatened to terminate the brokerage firm's access to MLS data, which it displays on its Web site.

A representative from NWMLS did not immediately respond to Inman News' request for comment.

Redfin said it is appealing the fine.

The company said the review sites, dubbed Sweet Digs, had attracted more than 3,000 e-mail subscribers over the last five months. The sites included postings from 15 independent reviewers who were paid by Redfin to visit properties in person and write reviews about the homes and neighborhoods they visited in Seattle and the San Francisco Bay Area.

"We're not trying to stir the pot," said Redfin CEO Glenn Kelman, who said the struggle with the MLS over the review sites had been a year in the making.

Redfin posted a notice on the Sweet Digs blogs and started receiving media attention and decided to release a statement Friday about the situation. The attention follows a Sunday night segment about the company that appeared on "60 Minutes" looking into the traditional commission structure of typical real estate agents.

Redfin is an online brokerage that rebates a portion of its commission back to home buyers in exchange for buyers doing most of the research themselves. The company also offers to list homes for sale for a flat rate.

The company's business model is not new; other real estate companies such as ZipRealty and Help-U-Sell have similar models that rebate portions of commissions or perform services at flat rates.

Redfin has spoken out at congressional hearings about rules and regulations set by the industry that the company says limit its ability to innovate. Industry insiders have fired back criticism that the company has used this as a crutch to make itself look like an underdog.

"We've said before that all the MLS rules form a thousand tiny shackles on our ability to innovate," Kelman said.

He noted that the MLS has a policy against commingling listing information with other non-MLS information on a Web site, though he said that Redfin's reviews were clearly separate from the listings on its site. What concerns the executive about this policy is that in a Web 2.0 world where information is constantly being mashed up together in new ways, that consumers won't be getting what they are looking for in real estate sites, he said.

Redfin plans to maintain the Sweet Digs sites as a local source of information about each of the markets it serves, but will have to shift its focus to analyzing price trends and recent sales.

Kelman said the company will change the names of the sites.

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Send tips or a Letter to the Editor to jessica@inman.com, or call (510) 658-9252, ext. 133.

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Copyright 2007 Inman News

 

May 19, 2007 08:09 AM
Elizabeth Ruvo
Watson Realty Corp. - Ormond Beach, FL
BA, CRB

Billy - thanks for writing a letter and thanks for posting the Inman News article.  I guess that's what the Redfin guy was talking about on 60 Minutes when he said they were having a problem with the MLS. 

In Florida we're allowed to use other agents' listings through a system called IDX as long as the broker has approved it.  The listings are pulled right from the MLS but come up with our contact information.  It's a terrific system. 

May 19, 2007 09:38 AM
Billy Runyan
Windermere Prestige Properties - Green Valley, NV
- Professional Property Expert at Windermere
Yes, we too use the IDX system for listings in our MLS.  I think the Redfin issue goes a bit further.  It's a very controversial subject and not one that has an easy answer.
May 19, 2007 09:51 AM
john golymbieski
c21 access america - Watertown, CT

60 monutes is not the credible show that it once was

i to wrote a simular letter to leslie stahl but in it i included some of my dealings with discount on line realtors such as when calling to show a house nobody knows what you are talking about it took me about a half an hour to 45 minutes to call for a showing went to the house and the lock box was wrong luckily the clients pulled into their driveway to let us in they didn't even know we were coming and the house was a mess i've only shown 2 houses and both times it was a nightmare just to show the house

         

May 19, 2007 11:19 PM
Ethan Dozeman
Realty Executives Platinum Group - Grand Rapids, MI
Real Estate in Grand Rapids
I think it all comes down to the Golden Rule, "do unto others, what you want done to you" 
May 20, 2007 01:42 AM
Anonymous
Tim R

I would encourage all of the real estate agents that have posted here and think you act in the best interest of the seller to go read Freakonomics.  Your incentive to get the seller an extra $10,000 on the value of a home is exactly $300 (.03 * 10,000).  Do you really work an extra week, two weeks, 1 month to get your seller an extra $9400 (after 6% commission on $10K), while only making a few hundred extra dollars yourself?  Do you tell the seller that it's a fair offer and they should take it?  This is just an example, but the fact is that your interests are absolutely NOT aligned with those of seller.  Your business model is predicated on volume and sellers' ignorance.  Information on comparable homes and current home listings is almost universally available and free and quite frankly, anyone with a bachelor's degree could competitively price their home with this information. 

May 22, 2007 03:08 PM
#48
Chuck Dellorto
Coldwell Banker - Serving INDIANA & ILLINOIS - Highland, IN
"Talk To Chuck"

Tim R. (if that is your real name)--- CHALLENGE.....What profession are you in? Are you a real estate agent or appraiser. Please let us all know. Do not go anonymous. Put up or shut up!

The sellers are not ignorant. The seller is using my service because the seller CHOOSES to do so. Just like I choose to use services of various professions.

Since you think it is so easy to have access to "sold" information on homes and this info is open to the public to find (prices on active homes for sale are useless for comparables, the "sold" price is the key number)...I challenge you and I will pay you $1000 if you come up with the same price (or close to it) on a home to put up for sale. I want to see you Comparative Market Analysis. I will pick the home in my market area where I have access to the "sold" information. This way I want to see how you can easily receive the same information that I obtain. Then we will let an independent appraiser do the same. Who ever comes up with the closet appraisal value to the appraiser gets the $1000. Fair enough?

May 22, 2007 03:36 PM
Mike Montague
RE/MAX Crosstown Realty Inc - Barrie, ON
"Who Moves You?"

Your mind is made up Tim but I,ll confuse you with a few facts anyway. Last point first. That universally available information you speak of is not free. It is is calculated, harvested and displayed online and in papers by and at the expense and liability of guess who?.... the Realtor and the industry we support through our collective fees.

Point: A good business is sustained on referrals, the average timeline of home ownership is about 4 years in my market. The higher list to sale ratio I get my sellers, the more likely they are to refer me to others and use my services in the future. (Go to Chapters for some Dale Carnegie classics) To try to encourage them to undersell is to shoot myself in the foot. 

On the other foot if I list your home for a mere few hundred dollars I'm going to burn through my marketing budget and be eating into whatever profit I hope to gain in no time at all just to keep the listing going. The reward then comes on selling and getting the client to buy. Few if any agents discount the buyers portion of commission. Knowing this there is pressure to get your home sold asap and temptation to encourage a seller to take any pathetic offer that comes across the table so we can get to the gravy.

Next point: The 6% commission you speak of is pretty much a bygone number in most communities. Rates fluctuate based upon demand, just as an overpriced home in one community does not sell though the same home at the same price may sell in another, so to does the commission rate fluctuate. If it did not, economics 101 would suggest that a business is doomed to fail. (Add The E myth to your library)

Most Realtors worth their salt have read Freakonomics and likely many dozens of other books on the subject of sales, business management and customer service. The ones who don't, vanish from the herd like the slower Gazelles on the Serengeti. (Go to the library get a copy of Natural Order on the African Plain)

Buyers are not gullible and "ignorant" as you claim in your scenario, on behalf of all buyers past and future I will except your apology to them in advance.

Whether its burgers or fillet minion, each has a price, each has a market. Try to pass off one as the other and you go out of business.

In Real Estate there are burger stands and there are 5 star restaurants. If you want a burger, go buy a burger Tim, knock yourself out. Don't stand outside the steak house shouting for a burger you will just look silly. Same goes for trying to order a steak through a Clown's mouth. (check out a novel called Fast Food Nation)

 

May 22, 2007 03:38 PM
Elizabeth Ruvo
Watson Realty Corp. - Ormond Beach, FL
BA, CRB
Tim - Yes, most of us do work extra hard to get a few extra dollars for the SELLER.   Pricing a home is a small part of what we do.  I could go on forever about what we do for our sellers, but you obviously have had a bad experience and will not budge in your opinion, so I won't waste my valuable time trying to change your mind.  All of the real estate agents posting here have made their pictures, full names and contact information available to the public.  We are proud of our profession and take our code of ethics very seriously. 
May 22, 2007 03:39 PM
Chuck Dellorto
Coldwell Banker - Serving INDIANA & ILLINOIS - Highland, IN
"Talk To Chuck"
Mike and Elizabeth, very well put. Kudo's
May 22, 2007 03:49 PM
Billy Runyan
Windermere Prestige Properties - Green Valley, NV
- Professional Property Expert at Windermere

Fantastic analogy Nike, a truly exceptional discourse on the subject (I'd like to quote your burger rant). 

 People who think they can "read a book" and then know it all are the ones who understand just enough to be "dangerous" as shown in this discussion.

Great thread, great subjet, and great blog... thanks again Elizabeth! 

May 23, 2007 01:51 AM
Mike Montague
RE/MAX Crosstown Realty Inc - Barrie, ON
"Who Moves You?"

Not dangerous Billy, some times irritating but more often just amusing.

Thanks.

MM 

May 23, 2007 02:03 AM
Elizabeth Ruvo
Watson Realty Corp. - Ormond Beach, FL
BA, CRB
Thanks, Chuck, Mike and Billy for your responses after Tim's discourse!
May 23, 2007 04:16 AM
Missy Caulk
Missy Caulk TEAM - Ann Arbor, MI
Savvy Realtor - Ann Arbor Real Estate
Elizabeth, I flipped over here after reading Mikes post. Let us know if you get a response.
May 23, 2007 10:02 AM
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time

Hi Elizabeth,

Very interesting comment thread. Not sure how I missed this one last week. I liked your letter. Mike also doid a good job of responding to Tim.

 

May 23, 2007 11:44 AM
Elizabeth Ruvo
Watson Realty Corp. - Ormond Beach, FL
BA, CRB

Missy - I never even got an acknowledgement that I sent it!  I'm sure they were flooded with letters from real estate professionals all over the continent, but they didn't mention that on last Sunday's show (I sort of thought they would - silly me).

Bryant - thanks for reading.  If you read even half the comments I'm sure that you could see we got pretty worked up over the misinformation, but even more worked up over ridiculous summations like Tim's.

May 23, 2007 12:04 PM