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Is our justice system working? How a tenant can live free for three months on your property.

By
Real Estate Agent with CoastalVa Realty Inc

 I just came back from court.  This is the story of how tenants can live free in your investment property.

These are the same tenants that inspired me to write: Finding the right tenant.

A tenant moves in and has 5 days to report anything that has to be fixed.  They complaint: it is to cold, so I Justicebring them spaces heaters the next day.  They don't turn on the water, so they burn the water heater.  I fix the water heater.  On the first of the month when the rent is due the lady calls me hysterical telling me that some one broke in the place.  In the police report that I finally saw today, the policeman writes that the point of entry was the bedroom window and there are no finger prints at all.  He also writes that the tenant is unemployed.  I called the man that does all my repairs the night of the supposedly break in;he tells me he is on his way, but never shows up until the next morning. He closes the hole with a piece of wood and informs me that the window was broken from the inside out.  We look for a window that will fit that hole, but it is an old window, so finally three days later we install a new window and just make the hole to adapt. 

By this time the tenant calls the city inspector which condemns the house for lack or water.  There are other repairs that need to be done,  and he gives me 4 days.  I do all the repairs in the time allotted.  The story continues.....but to make the story short, they stay in the place for another month and a half.

The judge a very old man Robert F. Babb rules for the tenant awarding me no money for rent or damages.  Very happily looks at me and says, I award Zero money because this is to CONFUSING.  (I do know people in their 90's who are sharp beyond belief. Unfortunately this judge doesn't appear to be in this category)

He did not ask me or the tenant any questions.  I tried to ask what is confusing, but by this time the policeman is walking towards me to escort me out the door.  I am told I need to appeal.  Spend another $108 in court fees plus I think at this time, I would have to hire an attorney to recover the $2000 plus these people owe me. The attorneys fees will be $800.judge

I AM DEVASTATED TO THINK THAT IN THIS COUNTRY THE LEGAL SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK.  If the judge doesn't understand what he has in front of him, he needs to ask questions.

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS.  I AM SO UPSET, I NEED TO VENT.

 

 

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Comments(22)

Mike Johnson
Total Property Group - Fort Wayne, IN

Sound like a nightmare tenant to me.  You should add up all the damages  and back rent $ and try to recoup something in small claims court or appeal as you stated.  Even if the property is condemed it was not your fault they where responsible for the damages and they owed you back rent for the time they lived there.  How is your lease agreement?  It will be hard to collect from the tenant but you may get a judgement and be able to try to collect from there.

Mar 17, 2009 03:48 AM
Tere Rottink
CoastalVa Realty Inc - Virginia Beach, VA

David:

I am so glad that other people feel my pain.  I should have said that the tenants moved out of the property, but lived there for free for three months.  This is the second time in 20 plus years of property management that I actually take anyone to court.  I usually work it out with the tenants.  These tenants lied and took advantage of the whole situation.  I don't even think there was a break in, and the police report implied so.  

Thanks so much for sharing my outrage. It is greatly appreciated.

Tere

Mar 17, 2009 03:50 AM
Tere Rottink
CoastalVa Realty Inc - Virginia Beach, VA

Mike:

It had not occurred to me to go to small claims court.  The attorney's fees are about $800, but in small claims, I can ask for rent and damages.  Thanks,

Tere

Mar 17, 2009 03:54 AM
Wallace S. Gibson, CPM
Gibson Management Group, Ltd. - Charlottesville, VA
LandlordWhisperer

Tere - this might be a no-brainer, but why did you rent to someone who was unemployed?

You should review your first meeting with those tenants and see what in your behavior lead them to believe you could be "had".

I agree that the judge's decision was an outrage; however, getting the residents into court sooner rather than later is the best option.

 

Mar 17, 2009 05:09 AM
Tere Rottink
CoastalVa Realty Inc - Virginia Beach, VA

Wallace:

  At the time of the application, I verified both of the tenants employement.  What I assume is that she lost her job in the meantime.   I do have to think, what make them think that I could be had.  As I said, I have been doing this for 20 plus years, and this people are the "tenants from hell"  Thanks for your input. 

By the way I evicted them as soon as possible, and the court date was postponed twice.

Mar 17, 2009 05:20 AM
Naoma Doriguzzi
Virginia Beach - Virginia Beach, VA
New Media Director

Tere - so sorry you are having such a hard time with those tenants.  I have been very fortunate to have excellent tenants! 

Mar 17, 2009 05:48 AM
Patricia Kennedy
RLAH@properties - Washington, DC
Home in the Capital

Tere, you're lucky you don't live in DC!  A friend had tenants who stopped paying rent, declared bankruptcy, and when he went to court, he had to return their deposit.  Your tenants sound even worse because they are doing bad stuff deliberately.  You should watch that real estate horror film, Pacific Heights!

Mar 17, 2009 07:46 AM
Wallace S. Gibson, CPM
Gibson Management Group, Ltd. - Charlottesville, VA
LandlordWhisperer

I agree these tenants were probably PROs and know the system.  I don't understand postponing a trial date...I can get the return date at the time I file the warrant in debt and I can set the trial date at that return date...I can get a trial date in less than 3 weeks so with 10 days and that's WITH only being able to go before 1 judge since the other has a conflict. 

I truly live and work in "God's Country"....our courts, clerks and judges are GREAT, no nonsense types!!!

Mar 17, 2009 10:41 AM
Tere Rottink
CoastalVa Realty Inc - Virginia Beach, VA

Naoma:  I think it has to do with the type of property that I am dealing with.  I had tenants there for several years with no problems at all. 

Pat: I will watch that movie and feel lucky.  I watched it years ago. Thanks for feeling my pain.

Wallace:  When you deal with this judge and he dismisses you the way I was today, we can talk.   I deal with properties in four different cities, and I can tell you that the court system  works in a different manner in each city.  I also complained about the judge nobody else.  Thanks for your input.

Mar 17, 2009 11:42 AM
Tere Rottink
CoastalVa Realty Inc - Virginia Beach, VA

Erica:  I am with you.  Thanks

Mar 18, 2009 12:48 AM
Matt Listro
National Credit Fixers - Matt Listro - Vernon, CT
Your Credit Repair Expert

Hi Terre: In my personal experience the legal system is broken.  That's all I am going to say because anything else would require several thousand words of type and ruin the rest of my day!

:)

Mar 18, 2009 02:42 AM
Diane Rice
Rice Prprty Mgmnt & Rlty, LLC, South Holland, IL - Lansing, IL
SFR, SRES, CNC

Hi Tere:  Thanks for having the guts to spill it all out!  This will be featured in the Property Management group to gender more exposure and help for you.  In property management there is bound to be at least ONE tenant from hell in the course of dealing with renters. 

We have always found the judicial system to be pro-tenant for the most part, and have prepared ourselves to avoid repercussions by promptly serving the notices REGARDLESS of the many many excuses, and by hiring an eviction attorney.  We never have to go to court - he fights for us and wins every time.  Be encouraged.... think this way:  You paid the price for a lesson you can avert in the future. 

Mar 19, 2009 01:58 AM
Leslie Prest
Leslie Prest, Prest Realty, Sales and Rentals in Payson, AZ - Payson, AZ
Owner, Assoc. Broker, Prest Realty, Payson,

In our town it seems to work pretty well. I've been in court where the Judge has said to the Tenant, "You stay, you pay". It's usually that cut and dried. It comes down to the Judge, so we have a responsibility to get good judges in place and to try to get rid of bad ones. Sounds like you got a real doozy.

Did you seriously check out their references, and find no "red flags" before you put them in? It sounds like people I would never have rented to.

Mar 19, 2009 07:05 AM
Tere Rottink
CoastalVa Realty Inc - Virginia Beach, VA

Diane: A few days later, and I have calmed down.  I still think the judge was lazy by not taking the time to understand or try to understand the situation.  Like David says, that is why we went to Court. His response of "confusing" was unacceptable.  The idea of an attorney is great.   I do send my notices in time, but they come from my company.

Les, This property is low income housing.  All the applicants have poor credit, so I base my decition in least poor credit, work references, and past rental references.  These people had owned rental properties in the past and new the system.  Lesson learned. So yes there were red flags, but it was the best that I could get from the 4 applications that I received. If I could, I would sell this property. I have made two bad purchases, this is one of them.  The other I sold in time.

Mar 19, 2009 10:52 PM
Russel Ray, San Diego Business & Marketing Consultant & Photographer
Russel Ray - San Diego State University, CA

I feel for you. Good thing you don't live in California and have tenants. This has to be the most anti-landlord state I've ever been in, so much so that they have a whole shelf of books at the book store on how to be a California landlord.

About our legal system -- note that I did not call it a justice system -- it is arguably the best the world has ever seen, but there are still areas that need to be fixed. That won't be done as long as the lawyer lobbiests are around because there are simply too many attorneys. I consider our legal system a great way to redistribute the wealth from the rich to the poor attorneys. After all, has anyone ever sued a poor person?

Mar 20, 2009 09:13 PM
Kathleen Frawley
Keller Williams 916 730-4404 Elk Grove, Wilton, Folsom, Sacramento - Wilton, CA
South County Sacramento, 916 730 4404

I agree our legal system is broken.  I thought we were capitalists:  If you work hard and make good choices, you make money.  If you are lazy and make bad choices you don't.  apparently we're not capitalists any more.. (thanks for the nice rant).

Mar 24, 2009 03:51 AM
Tere Rottink
CoastalVa Realty Inc - Virginia Beach, VA

Russel:  I couldn't agree with you more

Katheleen:  Thanks for reading, and understanding my need to rant.  I did feel better, after I posted this.

Mar 24, 2009 04:21 AM
Jim Cheney
Saint Francis Property Santa Rosa, CA - Santa Rosa, CA
Rincon Valley Realtor 707.494.1055

The justice system definitely favors the tenant.  The burden is on the landlord to make their case.  EXCLUDING YOUR SITUATION, it's a good system.  I've seen a lot of amateur landlords really screw tenants & keep deposits that they did not deserve.  I've found that traditionally landlords get what they deserve when properly prepared in court. 

Sounds like you got a "pro-tem" which is a retired judge or an attorney acting as a judge.  At least you can appeal it and are not stuck with binding arbitration. 

Good luck!

Mar 27, 2009 05:03 AM
Anonymous
Carol Rood

Tere,

I am sorry you had such awful tenants.  On the flip side, I once had to take my landlord to smal claims court because they refused to return my deposit because they said I did not clean the house.  However, I had a signed contract by Merry Maids for a move out cleaning as well as one from a carpet cleaning company.  We went to court and I won back $800 of my $1000 deposit.  The judge gave her $200.00 because I did not clean the outside of the windows...sheesh...  I think he just did not want to give me all of my deposit back.  However, I was very happy to get my $800.00 back!!

 

small claims may be the way to go. No attorney fees.  Just make sure you have all of your receipts and documents to back you up!

Mar 31, 2009 04:43 AM
#21
Robert Machado
HomePointe Property Management, CRMC - Sacramento, CA
CPM MPM - Property Manager and Property Management

In low income housing the tenant has the upper hand because they have nothing to lose.  That is why rents are typically higher in relation to value due to the higher risk.  It is just an ugly part of the business.  

Apr 13, 2009 11:39 AM