Do we live by mob rule or the rule of law?  The more I think about it, the more I see it as mob rule.  Better yet,  mobster rule.

I don't believe in any kind of bailouts.  I'm a simple guy.  I believe in living by the law and having the government enforce the law.  The law should protect people from theft, fraud and assault.  The law should enforce contracts.  The law shouldn't favor one group of people over another.

When you start straying from those limited duties and allow the government to show favor to one group or another, you either get mobster rule or mob rule, which turns into mobster rule. 

What do bailouts do?  They take money from the many and funnel it to the few.  Who decides who gets the money?  There always has to be decision makers for that.  The more you influence the decision makers, the more likely you'll get a piece of the bailout.

In mobster rule, you get corrupt government officials manipulating the system to the benefit of their benefactors.  You have to be a Good Fella and play the political game.  If the common folk don't pay, they have Guido, the IRS agent, pay them a visit. 

Unfortunately, the common schmuck just doesn't have much influence. So they get upset and angry when they see favors being dished out to insiders who have the means and connections to influence the decision makers.   

If they band together and form a majority, they might be able to get the system to steer some benefits to them.  Many call this democracy.  I like to refer to it as mob rule.  Mob rule is great if you are part of the mob.  But I'd hate to be the chicken when it's me and two foxes deciding what's for dinner.  Mobs have to eventually get organized and have leaders, so it eventually gets back to mobster rule.

Human nature is what it is.  Our founding fathers recognized it and set up a great system to account for this human nature.  They created the Constitution that put strict limits on what the Federal government was allowed to do.  Unfortunately, we have allowed these limits to be ignored and now with the passage of time, have forgotten how important these limits were.

I feel sorry for everyone who is upside down on their home. Real estate prices weren't supposed to go down.  Like much in life, timing is everything.  But should we tax everyone, homeowners and renters, in order to help the few home owners in trouble?  Is that fair to the renter who sat on the side lines because they thought the prices people were paying for homes were crazy?  Should we prop up home prices to help current home owners. Many non-owners haven't benefited yet from past home appreciation and unless prices come down, they'll never be able to hop on to the homeowner bandwagon.  So by propping up prices, you help some but hurt others. 

So what should be done?  Maybe you are the smart and wise one who can decide who pays and who receives.  That's a very powerful position to be in.  Can you handle that power?  Should you really have that power? 

I say that the big government experiment has been tried and shown to be a failure.  It's time to get back to basics and back to very limited government as stipulated in the Constitution.

Let's get the government out of guaranteeing everything.  It has taken a generation or two to finally see that the nanny state just doesn't work. I think it's becoming clear that the system has removed personal and corporate responsibility from decisions.

Whenever there's too much of a guarantee, people take more risks or they don't do good due diligence. 

Why worry about what bank you put your money in?  The FDIC is there to bail you out if you make a bad decision.  So you go with the bank that pays you the most interest.  Why not?  There's nothing to lose.  In order to pay you that extra interest, the bank has to make riskier, higher paying investments.    If they luck out, you win and they win.  If not, the taxpayer bails out the banks because they are too big to fail.

 Fear of loss is a good thing.  It's one of the checks that keeps things balanced.

Maybe some long held beliefs need  to be changed. 

  1. Real estate prices always go up.
  2. Your home is an appreciating asset.
  3. Renting is just throwing money away.
  4. Some banks are too big to fail.
  5. Trust me, I'm from the government.

Let's stop the insanity of relying on the government to bail us out.  No good will ever come of it.  It just gets us going down the road of dependency and away from self reliance. 

The best way to start to change things is to vote out every Congressperson who voted for any bailouts.  Throw them out and replace them with people who respect the limits imposed by the Constitution. When government gets to be an insignificant player in the lives of people, and gets back to enforcing the laws, freedom will be given the opportunity to work it's magic again. 

I trust the actions of free people over the actions of big government. 

 

 

 

 

120 Comments on Bailouts Are Mob Rule, not Rule by Law

SEP
24

Tim,

Great blog! I know to some this will seem like a simplistic answer to a very complex problem, but you are exactly right in your analysis. We've got to get back to the basics of what made this country great in the first place. I think it was Gerald Ford (although it has been attributed to Thomas Jefferson, too) who said,

A government big enough to give you all that you want is big enough to take everything you have.

 

8:17am • #1
547,125 Points 11 Featured Posts Outside Blog

Tim,

Very well said. Many of us have been advocating these principles. Keep at it, we can enact a change that is beneficial. :)

Steve

8:18am • #2

I can't agree with you more.  It seems there is a mentality growing out there that somebody owes you something.  Why I ask does anyone owe you anything that you have not worked for and earned?  If my business fails I consider it to be my problem and my failure to do what was needed.

Concerning the governement I think we should have limited terms.  Two four year terms should do it.  They longer they stay in Washington the more corrupt they become.

Dave Shockley
8:23am • #3

Great blog. If this were 2008 or January of 2009. You are about 9 months at least too late.

Rich Kapman
8:24am • #4

Tim,

Your blog is "right on the money"; pardon the pun! If we don't remember the foundations instituted by the Founding Fathers of this great nation, we will all ultimately suffer the consequences. We must DEMAND that our elected officials make decisions based upon their consitutents and not the loobyists funding their next campaign.

Jeanne Hall
8:27am • #5

Tim,

BRAVO! We the people need to start speaking out!

Marcia -"A government big enough to give you all that you want is big enough to take everything you have."  My favorite Thomas Jefferson quote.  Maybe not the exact words, but close enough

8:27am • #6
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I believe that America is finding out that the change they voted for when they put Pelosi in power, and now Obama, will be the most expensive mistake in history. Unfortunately all this spending will not help most of the people who need it most, just the main supporters of the democratic party. Ge and Al gore look to rake in billions, as well as the insurance companies.

8:28am • #7
175,339 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

You make some good points but it's not all that simple. I live and work in Texas where we do not have the same dilemma that is going on in the rest of the country. However back during the S&L Crisis we did suffer and there wasGovt. help to alleviate the problem then. I don't like the Govt. getting into our lives any more than necessary but it's been proven time and again that some regulation is a must or we have the abuse that got us into this current mess.

8:29am • #8
175,339 Points 14 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

You make some good points but it's not all that simple. I live and work in Texas where we do not have the same dilemma that is going on in the rest of the country. However back during the S&L Crisis we did suffer and there wasGovt. help to alleviate the problem then. I don't like the Govt. getting into our lives any more than necessary but it's been proven time and again that some regulation is a must or we have the abuse that got us into this current mess.

8:29am • #9

Amen.

Ling Bunch
8:32am • #10
119,766 Points 1 Featured Post Outside Blog

Tim... I Agree 110%. Those who fail to learn from the past are destined to repeat it...

 

 

8:33am • #11
137,761 Points 4 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor

Bailouts on any level enable destructive behaviors.  Even on a family and friend level. 

IMHO, I believe the bigger the bailout.  The larger the destruction.  There are great lessons to be learned by fighting through our mistakes.  Those who are not paying for their mistakes by being responsible and accountable.  Are sowing the seeds for destructive behaviors.

By the way,  I'm a bit surprise at the lack of comments???

Does that mean the majority are in favor of bailouts.  I hope not....  That's a very scary thought......

8:36am • #12

You don't have a full understanding of the issues and policies that led to this point.  It isn't as black and white as you present. 

First of all do you realize that the US taxpayer has already received a 40% return on the investment?  Wouldn't you take that kind of return?  This investment, or bailout as you call it, will greatly benefit all citizens of the US and by extension, the world.  Our economy was on the verge of collapse, complete collapse.  Without the excellent job of the current administration and the Fed, we wouldn't be in business.  Simple as that.  No one would be buying homes or investment properties - for a very long time.  Unemployment would be about double what it is.  (Note that the jobless claims dropped again today! Another sign that the economy is stabilizing)

One major factor in the demise of our economy was the previous administration blind eye to the creation of the CDO or CDS.  Credit Default Obligation or Swap.  This reckless "investment vehicle" was so named to avoid regulation - for it is an insurance policy with another name.  This insurance allowed buyers of MBS(Mortgage Backed Security) to over leverage their bets to a ridiculous level - 34 times value! 

This overleveraging of the MBS market put jet fuel on the real estate market by injecting too much cash.

When the real estate market started to slow and then correct, the owners of the CDO's called in their insurance policies.  This is the real problem.  The reason they didn't want to be regulated was that the issuers of these CDO's had no assets to cover their obligations. 

So if we did nothing - the entire world economy would have seized.  Did you live through the Great Depression?  Have you studied the history of the world economy?  If we did nothing, this worldwide recession would have quickly turned into the greatest depression in history. 

I would highly reccomend you read up on bubbles.  There are great books on the Tulip Bubble in Holland - and bubbles in general.  I read this on years ago.  http://www.amazon.com/Tulipomania-Coveted-Extraordinary-Passions-Aroused/dp/060980765X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253799391&sr=1-1

Perhaps this might open up your mind a bit.

 

Arthur Chapman
8:40am • #13

Tim,

Great posting. You said what we are all thinking.  It's time to get back to basics and back to very limited government as stipulated in the Constitution.

Term limits, must be instituted.

Thanks for your spirited blog.

Joe Pascal (5 Star Real Estate, Inc. Wilmington, NC)

8:46am • #14

Arthur

I believe the Clinton administration had some hand in what has happened in today's economy - maybe the last administration had some dealings in it too-but when you open the doors to free trade (Clinton's admin) then that has lead to what we are in today....

Marlene Berrier
8:47am • #15

Count me in!

 

Start at your local level; school boards, county commissioners etc. and work our way up. I dont believe in voting for incumbents UNLESS they have PROVEN they are not for govt intervention on every level.

Sorry if you voted for Obama and democrats in the house and senate. You were bamboozeled! Or you didnt do your homework. You wanted change but didnt stop to read the writing on the wall and what these people's idea of change is.  I did.  Most didnt. 52% of the voting public didnt. Though not the landslide media outlets said it was, enough of you were fooled and probably some still are though I am happy to see many are realizing what our country's direction is headed.

This govt has set a precedant that will take many years to turn back. We have basically said, if you come from another country you can have the rights of a citizen but none of the responsibilities like paying taxes and contributing to this great nation. You can receive a handout in the way of welfare, grants, education and healthcare while the rest of us work hard to pay for it ( yours and ours) yet we are the same entrepreneurs who are taking it upon ourselves to take care of our own healthcare and educations. And if that wasnt shameful enough, it has been suggested that we may even give you the right to vote with out citizenship! If that isnt trying to buy votes for an agenda I dont know what is !   My parents were immigrants, came here from Europe, worked paid MORE than their fair share of taxes, became citizens, did jury duty, started businesses, employed other CITIZENS, and didnt depend on Govt for ANYTHING. I have served my country in a combat unit for several years, have run several successful businesses, paid for the majority of my education out of pocket ( the VA gave me a pittance when I got out that lasted 1 year of schooling), and even though the VA gives me some of the worst healthcare I chose to pay for my own for anything more serious than a cold.  I know through 1st hand experience that our govt is paying for housing, childcare, employment and education of foreign nationals who go to school on our dime and pop out babies to collect that extra cash. And what do these peple do with their benefits, jobs and educations? Send money back to their native country, skip out on paying taxes and squander whats left on a cadillac escalade or some car they couldnt afford otherwise.

 

Am I pissed, you bet. Some are others.

So what are we gonna do about it?

8:52am • #16

 Wayne and Linda...thank you so much for finding that cartoon.  Maybe this is happening because we allowed our history books and lessons to be taken over by those who would rewrite history?  Do you know what your children believe to be true about American History?   This is a planned takeover of the power of the American citizen.  Nothing less.  Its not just about money and property, it's about the constitutional rights we all should have.  There is more at work here than "bubble economics".

8:53am • #17
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Seems like Arthur has been reading too much of the USA Today.  With the national debt skyrocketing to an estimated 23.1 Trillion dollars by the time the national bailouts and Help for Homeowners legislation is finished, the interest on the debt is going to be $1 Trillion per year. 

If you believe that we are getting a 40% return on our investment after servicing all the debt, I've got some great foreclosure properties to sell you in the swamplands of Louisiana.

8:54am • #18
3 Featured Posts

Great blog, Tim. Of the 5 points you close with, I'm afraid our industries are responsible for the propogation of the first three. Hopefully that will change. . .

Dan

8:54am • #19

Your answer is simplistic ... way too simplistic.  I agree about the bank bailouts, but lumping in the homeowners is nieve and shortsighted.  I'm with Arthur Chapman.

Holli
8:57am • #20

Thank you Tim.  I agree, bailouts are just enablers to the "Give Me, Give me, Give Me" society.  We need to take our medicine to get well. Just like the flu shot, it hurts but it heals us.  The last time I looked, we were intelligent citizens of the United States, not morons who the government thinks they have to dictate over, because we do not know what is best for us.  I am sorry (actually I'm not), I just get a little heated over everything that is going on.  Our Congressman here in North-central Wisconsin, Dave Obey, refused to have town-hall meetings with his constituents during the summer recess.  Instead, he had a conference call with 200 of supporters.  He claimed by using the modern telephone system, it was a more civilized and efficient method of communication.  Point blank, a form a hiding from the people.  So do you think we trust our government?   Again Tim, thank you for your post and thank you for giving me a soap box to stand on.

Ark Rhowmine
8:57am • #21

Hi. My name is Reality. Many of you may not know me, but I do actually exist, albeit, apparently in the small recesses of your brain, but believe it or not, I am in fact real.

I'm that little tiny voice of reason that kicks in when you're about to do something really stupid but choose to do it anyway. I'm that minuscule tap on your mind's shoulder when you hear a rumor that you know sounds stupid but choose to believe it anyway.

Ok, now that we've gotten acquainted, there are some things we need to talk about. And yes, they're about "you know who." 

I've come to explain to you that not everything you hear from your favorite news station is real. Contrary to popular belief, I don't exist in abundance at Fox News. As a matter of fact, in my most absolute form, I hardly exist in any news room in the country.

When someone says, for example, that President Obama is a Muslim, I'm nowhere in that sentence. Or when they say that he's going to kill your elderly loved ones, nope, I'm not there either. Or when they say that Obama is going to set up camps to teach socialism to your children, come on, do I even need to touch that one? And for goodness sake, how many times do you want to see his birth certificate? It's almost like some of you enjoy being blinded by those who couldn't care less about your best interests. What do they care if I'm in their emails, letters, or on your TV screen, as long as you keep helping them drive that Bentley and live in that hundred room mansion by listening to their drivel?

You see, I am basically married to this other amazing word known as "fact." And facts are what make me reality. On the other hand, outlandish claims based on absolute nonsense only serve to keep you away from me. And in this day and age, I'm pretty sure you want me as close to you as possible. Not in some creepy "I'm watching you" Bush Cheney sort of way, but in that comfortable dinner with a friend kind of way.

You see, there are a lot of groups and individuals out there that hate me. Now, I've never done anything to them, but for some reason they view me as a threat. They see me as a huge road block between their absolute bullshit and your sponge like brain. And admit it, most of the time, they win. Oh wait! That's right! You still don't think I'm real.

Allow me to ask you one simple question. Have YOU (as in YOU, not a talk show host) independently verified every crazy sounding claim that you've heard about your president? And no, typing it into Google and clicking the "I'm feeling lucky" button doesn't count. And hearing it from someone who heard it from someone's dad who heard it from someone's cousin on the subway who heard it from their client's sister's boyfriend's brother's friend's neighbor's dog walker doesn't mean it's true.

My buddies "truth" and "fact" go everywhere I do. In fact, without them, I cease to exist. Without them, I become opinion, plain and simple. And therein lies the problem, too many people mistake me for something else. Far too many people hear opinion, or outright fantasy, and think it's me. I really hate that. Nothing pisses me off more than someone claiming that I was somewhere I wasn't. Don't use me to further some twisted agenda you may have against someone just because you don't like them. That's just dumb.

Many of you claim to be preventing the repetition of events in world history, but make no mistake about it, the lack of my presence played more of a role in those events than your president ever could. When powerful figures know that you won't make sure I'm in their words, and then they use those words as ammunition for their own battles, that becomes a thousand times more dangerous than a president telling our kids to stay in school or calling a jackass a jackass.

Believe it or not, people love rumors. It probably all started back when the closest thing to a president was a rock that looked like a face. I can just hear it now.

Caveman 1: "Larry slept with that tree."

Caveman 2: "Really?"

Caveman 1: "Yup."

Caveman 2: "I'm gonna go tell the others."

Caveman 1: "Why are we speaking a non-existent language?"

Caveman 2: "In the future, words will be able to tell people when they don't like themselves being used improperly and I think one of them is using us in a piece right now."

Caveman 1: "Cool."

So while I may be a bit annoying to the right wing, and maybe not always as interesting as my arch nemesis "fantasy," I'm still there. Every time someone, including political parties, start to feel as if they're losing something, they just kick me out and run with the most ridiculous thing they can think of. However, just because someone says something about someone you already don't like doesn't mean it's true.  So please, when someone tells you something about anyone, including the President of the United States, take it with a grain of salt until you make sure I was there. Gossip comes in many forms, and some of those forms go far beyond just hurting someone's feelings.

Respectfully,
Reality

Tags: obama, reality, truth, actual, fighting rumors, smear, anti smear, liars, gossip, (All Tags)

Reality
9:03am • #22

Hey Reality,

Your reality is not fact.  Its just your opinion.  You leftie realities slant and twist the facts to match your worldview.  Your TV networks live in fantasyland.  They avoid facts all the time.

 

Real Reality
9:14am • #23
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Hi Everybody.....

I'm wondering how many ActiveRain members read the book, "Atlas Shrugged", by Ayn Rand.  I think I still have my original copy that I only 'half-understood' from high school.  It's time to get a new one because the original is so damn beat up.  

Atlas Shrugged is about everything that's happening now in the world.  It's a book about today, now, this minute.  The economy, the rotting politicians, the bailouts heading nowhere, the enslavement and your title for this blog;  Mob Rule.

Go get a copy, read it and thank me later.

Scott Miller

Realty Associates

Boca (sexy) Raton

 

 

 

9:20am • #24

Good morning Real Reality.  Please point me to your 'facts.'  I would love some actual, non Faux-new, Limbaugh, Hannity, or Beck sources.  If can't provide, then I'll assume you're still in bed with Fantasy.

Best Regards, Reality

Reality
9:20am • #25
213,276 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

Morning Tim,  If any of these problems were as simple as you present them we would not be in this mess.  Obama is trying to get our great country back on track.  There are no simple answers !

9:23am • #26
  • Great article and because I have such a lenghty response I wish to address "I don't believe in any kind of bailout."
  • Then please call my plan-NOT A BAILOUT , RATHER A PROFITABLE BUSINESS PLAN !
  • Please take the time to read it.I await all questions and challenges.
  •  A possible solution to end declining house prices,
    and to end foreclosures??
    NO BAILOUT,a business plan that is profitable
    to the taxpayers.
    ALL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES BACKING LOANS ARE REACHING
    75-YEAR LOWS IN RESERVES AND MAY NEED FUNDING!
    SIMPLY STATED;We are going under because of declining housing prices
    To solve the crisis we need to address the "burst asset bubble" that is the housing crisis.Housing prices must be stabilized.Homes need to become very affordable and owner occupied. This is as the former Sect of Treasury said
    ,the measure of how much money will be lost and this loss will not stop untill housing prices are stabilized.Yet,this could be done without borrowing any new money and by using legislative powers already on the books!
    Rescue the 8 to 12 million home owners now, the defaulting,soon to be defaulting or soon to be in serious financial difficulty with their home mortgages.need to be rescued now..Modify these loans at 100% or even up to 120% of todays Fair Market Value.At the same time make them AAA+ quality loans with timely affordable payments..
    FHA and HUD could use the legislation already approved to do this.Yes,change this nightmare into the real American Dream at no cost to the taxpayers,and at the same time earn a profit
    .President Obama claims that $900 Billion may be required over the next ten years to fund the health care reform package.How would the taxpayers like it; if they were able to not only EARN that amount but also end the financial crisis at the same time?
    This is lengthy,but worthwhile to investigate the possibility of a $400 to $900 billion dollar taxpayer profit .The rescue of homeowners in what may be a $10 TRILLION crisis with a solution that could create a $500 BILLION (if set at 5%) tax revenue income at the same time,while making homes affordable for American Homeowners.
    What is a HECM?
    How does this loan payment guarantee not require any money?
    The HECM (Home Equity Conversion Mortgage) as authorized by Congress in the
    "Home and Economic Recovery Act of 2008" allows the FHA and HUD to
    GUARANTEE LOAN PAYMENTS for PRIMARY RESIDENCES based on the asset value of the property.
    FDIC Insurance guarantees 100% of the value of money in the bank up to $250,000.
    HECM guarantees 100% of a mortgage repayment.
    It allows lenders to lend to homeowners with a note that is guaranteed payable by the government.
    THERE ARE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF THESE LOANS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS!
    PLEASE ,have FHA and HUD request that HECM terms and conditions be modified For this temporary special time period -now till Dec.,2010.
    Any of the in-crisis loans may be MODIFIED INTO HECM LOANS..
    These new special "Everybody Wins Loans" will have everyone paying ,everyone will find a way to make payments
    that are unbelievably low, unbelievably affordable.Principal and interest on a $100,000 loan starts at $375 fixed 10 years,
    or $500 total principal,interest taxes and insurance fixed monthly payment for the first 10 years.
    That allows enough time for any market correction.Because the new terms and conditions could be negociated in a very short time
    housing prices will be firm at an average of at least 110% todays price and all defaulting loans converted into AAA+ loans 
    DAVID STEVENS,FHA COMMISSIONER ,with SECT OF HUD,SHAUN DONOVAN could STOP the speeding bullets of foreclosures and short sales.
    Armed with the "Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008" the FHA could, at no cost to the taxpayers and with no new money needed ;put an immediate end to this crisis.
    JUNE 2009,
    HUD Sect Donovan told Senate commitee,
    " We do have options for changing the HECM program".FHA and HUD could modify the terms and conditions of the Home Equity Conversion Mortgage (HECM) and allow for loan modifications at a lower rate with a longer term-
    100% asset GUARANTEED and very AFFORDABLE payments!
    Asset guaranteed loans for taxpayers that need help.Loans could be modified within weeks of announcement!
    The guarantee requires no upfront funding.The loans would be extremely affordable.
    The "Everybody Wins Plan Loan" would be about $375 per month principal and interest on $100,000.
    as a start.All primary residences would QUALIFY!The home is the asset value!Primary residence becomes affordable.

    PLEASE:Just PROVE this Business Plan works..Challenge it! or Endorse it! "The Everybody Wins Plan"
    All home loans could be modified so that they would be AFFORDABLE;thereby ending ALL Foreclosures and Short Sales. Regardless of how the this new loan amount is negotiated the payment plan
    makes it 100% AAA+(the FHA,HUD guarantee as in Home Equity Conversion Mortgage(HECM) )
    and very affordable.(low rate; longer time).
    The formula:The Solution:A LOW RATE OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME.
    This affordability would make forclosures a thing of the past.
    AT NO COST to the taxpayers.All lenders that have these crisis loans are to modify or foreclose!!!!!!
    All become affordable housing and will have immediate multiple offers.
    Lenders choice,but all in-crisis loans must be off the books or increase reserves.
    The Everybody Wins Plan Loan :
    TWO PARTS:
    1. A 10 year note,120 payments of Principal,Interest,Taxes,and Insurance.
    A full mortgage payment.... PITI
    with payment 121 being the payoff of the balance owed.
    2. Payment number 121 - a 30 year fixed rate mortgage as a balance payoff.
    EXAMPLE: $100,000 loan
    FULL monthly payment for this mortgage would be $500 per month per $100,000 for the first 120 payments.
    This pays the Principal,Interest,Taxes,and Insurance.
    A full mortgage payment.... PITI
    $500/month per $100,000!! Now that's affordable.
    Of the 8 to 12 million homeowners in trouble ,the nightmare would be over.
    85% will remain in their homes and the other 15% will have multiple offers.
    Payment number 121 a new fixed 30 year mortgage for the balance of the amount that was agreed upon as the new loan modification.A principal amount of 15% was paid in the first ten year portion.The new 30 year note would be for 90% of that original note amount thereby allowing for a 5% profit.

    Since there are THREE possible future results ,we must consider all three.
    The FAIR MARKET VALUE could be
    (A)...HIGHER
    (B)...LOWER
    (C)...The SAME
    If the SAME or HIGHER (A or C)No problem new 30 year mortgage would be a solution that ends the problem.
    If it is LOWER (B) REPEAT the 10 year part using 90% as the full note (that is with the 5% profit built in)
    and then most surely payment 121 would be the new 30 year note.
    The "Everybody Wins Loan" is affordable and since it is based on a low rate over a longer period
    an absolute solution.

    DISTRIBUTION FOR PART ONE:
    Prin.......................15% of total note
    Int........................100% of the interest of 10 years (10 years interest on total note)
    Taxes and
    Insurance..........15% of total note
    TERMS FOR THE NEW LOAN:120 fixed, low, and affordable monthly payments that consists of........
    .. ............ (A) payment of total interest (10 yrs);
    (B)15% of principal ;
    (C)15% for taxes and insurance.
    This is a total payment ,known as P.I.T.I. All to often payments are quoted not showing taxes and insurance,making the figure quoted neither realistic nor credible.
    MAGIC BULLET:Payment number 121..the new 30 year mortgage.. is given by a third party lender to the owner at a fixed prevailing rate,for the 85% balance,PLUS 5% TAXPAYER PROFIT ,then the NEW 30 year NOTE is to be 90% of what the original modified loan was.(If $4 Trillion needed that's $200 Billion profit).
    Example:$100,000 "EVERYBODY WINS LOAN"
    LOAN AMOUNT $100,000 with payments to include:
    A...Total 10 years interest.(3%).............. $30,000
    B...15% for principle reduction........... .$15,000
    C..15%..TAXES and INSURANCE.....$15,000
    TOTAL.......................................................$60.000
    That's 120 fixed equal payments of $500.00 each How affordable is a $100,000 mortgage at a total
    P.I.T.I. payment of $500.00 per month???)
    Then the with payment number 121 the note is paid in full with a new
    30 year loan that is 90% loan to value (or less,if values increase) Only 85% is the true balance but 5% profit is given to the taxpayers,therefore making the new loan 90% of modified loan value.
    To calculate payment for 10 year portion use a factor of $5.00 per $1,000.
    Example:, if loan amount is $250,000;payments of $1250.00
    ($250 X 5.00 = TOTAL PITI FOR A HOME VALUE OF $250,000
    at an unbelievable low $1250.00)
    Extremely affordable.
    A sibling working for a minimum wage could pay the mortgage for the entire family! It is total payment...P.I.T.I.
    .
    The Foreclosure,Subprime Mortgage,Housing and Economic Crisis can be resolved at a PROFIT to the taxpayer.
    THE END OF FORECLOSURES AND SHORT SALES
    AND THE BEGINNING OF AFFORDABLE HOMES FOR ALL AMERICANS.
    PLEASE,change ,challenge,or endorse.Post it anywhere.
    THE TOTAL SOLUTION
    NEW FHA,HUD Guaranteed Payment Mortgage (TWO PARTS)10 Yr plus 30 YEAR
    with A VERY LOW PAYMENT .

    Just as in the 1930's,A LOWER RATE OVER A LONGER TERM got people to purchase the ranches because they turned the 5 year loans into 25 year loans. Now add in the guarantee because of asset decline ,you have the solution for this time around..
    Thank You ,Dreyfus School for the Arts and Wellington High School Debate teams for that bit of info. Please feel free to:
    print- edit- copy- trash-challenge or endorse .There is no copywrite.
    FOR HOMEOWNERS;Let them stay in their homes;Let them be able to afford it.
    THIS IS THE REAL AMERICAN DREAM.

    Turn this challenge into a greater good for all.Re-establishing "CREDARE" .Faith in the American people and and in home values.
    This solution allows for time to fix the blame and to do what is necessary for future prevention.
    We simply must get off the idea that we should only help "the good" people and leave the "reckless" ones to their own ends. Whether the foreclosed house next to me was owned by a good guy or a reckless flipper doesn't matter.. my home value goes down either way because of the foreclosure.
    We simply have to set aside moral judgments and fix the problem.Why not at the same time create revenue for all taxpayers.
    The Housing and Economic Recovery Act allows the FHA and HUD to guarantee the FULL payment of a Mortgage until the homeowner either sells the home or dies.The asset value of the home is the 100% security for the loan.We need only modify the conditions for this loan:
    (a) change age conditions from 62 Plus to NO AGE REQUIREMENT;
    (b) instead of age percentage base asset required,use REAL APPRAISED VALUE up to a maximum of 120%.This based upon historical numbers is a low appreciation percentage for any maintained primary residence for a ten year period.
    Problem solved: All homes become owner occupied.All housing supply will be eliminated by demand, a true demand by end-users.NOT A DEMAND FUELED BY GREED.(85% that wish to stay and 15% that wish to get an AFFORDABLE home)
    ACTION:Solve this trillions of dollars crisis at no cost to the taxpayers,and allow for a taxpayer profit.
    RESOLVED:ALL "underwater" loans and foreclosed homes to be re- purchased (by present lender or any FDIC insured lender)at 100%(or up to 120%) of FAIR MARKET VALUE.Old Loan to be marked "paid-in-full"This is a one time deal and could be done in 6 months or less,as all that is needed is an appraisal and a closing,settlement.
    PURCHASE to be made by any lender willing to take 10 year treasury rate on note FULLY BACKED 100% by FHA,creating a 100% backed asset!
    And why not?a loan on the books that would require NO reserves!
    ..
    Even the low cost of the interest now @ 3% range could be even lower since this solution does not require Trillions and Trillions in federal borrowing.
    Thank you,
    Paul Volcker......"An outside agency" THE FHA AND HUD
    Robert Shiller...."properly funded" 100% ASSET BASED GUARANTEED LOAN
    Dr. Yunus..........." a profitable business that does a social good."
    STOP ALL FORECLOSURES AND SHORT SALES,REPLACE
    WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR ALL AMERICANS. "

    Put "CREDARE"-CREDIT-TRUST back into the AMERICAN SYSTEM.
    "THE EVERYBODY WINS PLAN"
    REQUEST DETAILS,ASK QUESTIONS,request more info by email:
    bestsolutionsfl at aol dot com

  • Q&A SECTION
    Q. # 1
    How are you going to get the banks to reduce the principal,some loans maybe 130% to 150% of FMV ?
    I am certain more than 90% of the lenders of the "foreclosed,or soon to be foreclosed"
    will accept 120% of fair market value simply because it is a much greater amount then what they could
    receive since most short sales and foreclosures are at a net of perhaps only 80% of FMV.
    The lender also will be relieved or released from "reserve money" obligations. That also is a tremendous
    amount of cash that could then be used to earn 5% or 6% for them.( A real convincer would be if lender turns down
    new GUARANTEED PAYMENT MODIFICATION,then that lender would be made to place 50% of loan value in reserve;that would surely make this a better deal!)
    Foreclose on $200 billion 40% out of the money,lenders would probably get $96 billion
    ($200B -40%= $120B which would net @ 80% the 96B)
    maybe ,,just maybe ,then recover $20 billion from insurers and collections and other foreclosure advantages.
    The federal regulated program would instantly net $144 Billion.No question as to what a stimulus that would be.
    Should the lenders wish to still just foreclose, the foreclosed properties would go on the market and become affordable housing and are eligible for the "Everybody Wins Plan Loan" thereby creating the same end result,i.e.,
    all inventory would have end users at affordable payments that would stabilize the market place.

    Q # 2.
    How many homeowners who are paying their loans now but underwater will go into this system?

    All loans will qualify.All primary residences. This is not a negative because it is profitable to the taxpayer,if this
    total crisis is a $10 Trillion situation it means $500 Billion tax revenue would be generated.
    Also this part of the crisis may even be self-fulfilling as Home values will immediately improve 20%
    an amount that will bring many back to par.
    And aren't these the homeowners that were "harmed"?

    PLEASE,I am not an attorney,accountant,or mortgage broker,lender or banker.Please
    pass this around,let everyone add or subtract anything. Please copy and edit and post .
    There is no copywrite.

    THANKS AGAIN,
    Carmen Basilovecchio,broker
    Best Solutions Real Estate
    1375 GATEWAY BLVD
    Boynton Beach , Fl 33426
    561-536-0434
  • BASILOVECCHIO
    9:27am • #27

    On Ayn Rand:

    In October, 2008, in a congressional hearing room, former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, one of the most influential civil servants of the past century, saw his stock plummet-and his entire career lose its moorings. More important, the ideological battle over economic theory and the role of government in markets-a fight that played out in the 2008 presidential campaign-took a historic turn.

    With members of the House oversight and government reform committee blasting Greenspan for his past decisions that helped pave the way for the current financial crisis, he acknowledged that his libertarian view of markets and the financial world had not worked out so well. "You know," he told the legislators, "that's precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well." While Greenspan did defend his various decisions, he admitted that his faith in the ability of free and loosely-regulated markets to produce the best outcomes had been shaken: "I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms."

    In other words, whoops-there goes decades of Ayn Rand down the drain. 

    Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged?  I'll pass.  Much of her philosophy simply has not worked in the real world.

    Joan
    9:33am • #28

    Mr. "Reality" clearly leads an army of "Strawmen".  Where did that come from?  Who is talking about the president's birth certificate?  He should understand that he's one of us, "We The People," and not engage in so much riduculousness.  He must live in D.C.  Forget it...not even worth the time...

    Tim, you are talking about the big picture and you're right on.  Drive down the street...any street.  Failure is all around you!  It's what makes this country great.  The ability to fail.  When you open a business and fail, you learn from it and improve your approach.  In addition it affects a limited group of people.  When you open a government and fail, you affect a lot more people...perhaps not everyone, but millions of people suffer the consequences.  The government is also slower to improve their approach for several reasons (less in touch locally, bureaucracy, etc). I'd love to hear from our government the answer to this question..."Is there anything that you will LET fail anymore."

    I actually was in favor of the bailout of some banks.  Much of it had to do with again, failed regulatory policy (ie. Mark-To-Market [FASB 157]), and mortgage-backs, which actually had intrinsic value were worth less on the market than their intrinsic value, and FASB 157 said banks had to mark them to market value.  As a result, balance sheets looked like garbage, and no one wanted to catch the falling knife...due to know fault of the bank.  The government caused the problem, so they HAD to step in and prevent the disaster that would have ensued.  Oh yeah....and why did the banks originate such loans?  Because FNMA bought them!  Regulatory bodies are important, but they have to SMART about it!!  Once politics gets involved, you're done!  Senate Finance Commitee chairs did a bad job promoting, encouraging, and pressuring for looser underwriting standards to FNMA and FHLMC, and the regulatory bodies caved. 

    (Don't get me wrong, some portfolio banks wrote ridiculous loans due to greed, and they should fail).  

    This all got crazy when they started entering other industries.  Now...there appears no rhyme or reason for the bail outs.  Jobs will come back...and I'd rather keep my freedom.

    As Benjamin Franklin said,

    "None but a virtuous people are capable of liberty, all others are in need of a master; revolutions cannot take place without danger when the people have not sufficient virtue."

    Great post!

     

    Mark Zacharczyk
    9:35am • #29

    Tim, thank you I am with you sir.  Scott, Atlas shrugged is a great book in the modern day a must read.  Will state this clearly though we need to really get to the Founders for guidance as they were the wisest in constructing the free market economy with very, very stern warnings about limiting government, they were the ones who gave us this government.  We have strayed greatly.

    Reality that is the greatest form of comedy I have read in a long time, thank you but that is exactly what that is comical. 

    Arthur your view is for more of the same which is exactly what Tim is pointing out, going back to the principles that founded this country.  Whether this administration, the last, or since the beginning of this century current government involvement has been a disaster.  The current administration has an agenda that is counterproductive to our concerns.  These are opportunists taking the opportunity of crisis for more control of our lives.  Forget all the technicalities of today's modern legislators who grab hold of these opportunities so technical that we fear what we do not understand.  They think we are stupid sheep needing shephards.  It is quite simple go back to basics and the principles which founded this nation.  No more government intrusion, it just does not work and hasn't worked no matter the administration.  We can not keep on doing the same thing with a new name, failure is what it is failure, does not matter what label or spin you put on it.  All the new administration has done has put a new name on garbage, tweaked the details and presented it to us as hope and change. 

    9:45am • #30
    Outside Blog

    Totally agree, what happens to the little guys down the street when they messed up financially, they go out of business and usually something better comes in down the line.  It's called the American way last time I checked.

    9:46am • #31

    IT'S LIKE REWARDING A CHILD FOR IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR. AND, WHO DO YOU THINK WILL HAVE TO PAY ALL THIS MONEY BACK?

     

    PAT JENKINS, LONG & FOSTER REAL ESTATE, INC., TOWSON, MD

    PAT JENKINS
    9:53am • #32
    Outside Blog

    How do you feel about Social Security (Bailout of those who fail to provide for their future?) or Unemployment Compensation (Bailout of those who fail to provide for their continued employment) or Medicare (Bailout of those who fail to provide for their medical needs) or  Aid to Dependent Children (Bailout of those who fail to provide for their children's needs) or any of a number of other safety net programs. 

    It is one thing to blame folks for being irresponsible, but quite another to blame them for things that are absolutely outside of their control. I think we need to ease up on the criticism of those who find themselves in grave difficulty with no way to extricate themselves. Remember all the business that made money from these people. Now these people need some help, and I believe we should try to provide some.

    "This is a great time to buy a house!"

    Akron, Ohio

                                   

    9:59am • #33

    Good morning Tim,

    Very well said, we need to get back to COMMON SENSE.  We the People ...

     It is so easy to spend the money of others (taxpayers) and fly in Air Force One "daily" costing us probably $500K each time and having his entourage to serve his personal needs such as playing basketball.  What a joke we have becomel  The Dictators are in town, Obama and Pelosi, and are destroying this beautiful Country and ignoring our Constitution.

    They want to dictate us what we can and what we can't do.  We don't need their Heath Plan which is a takeover of our Freedom.  He is endoctrining our Elementary School with the kids singing "praise the President, Barrack Hussein Obama, mmm, mmm, mmm".  Don't beleive me, check Fox News. 

    Stay close to your ennemy, our own CORRUPTED White House, know what they are doing and fight for your Rights and Freedom, fight for our Constitution. 

    It is time for eveyone to take their own responsiblity... it is time for people to learn how to fish ... because I don't intent to feed them anymore.

    Wihing you all continuing success!

    Carmelle

    Carmelle
    10:00am • #34

    Tim,

    You obviously hit a nerve - in a good way!  I worked in the risk management area of residential lending and oversight for 20 years prior to becoming a realtor 10 years ago.   IT IS AS SIMPLE AS YOU SUGGEST!   Unfortunately our congessional representatives have been operating out of fear not informed, reasoned action.  Many banks should have failed, many people should have and will lose their homes, our economy should be allowed to go through the pain of retraction since the bubble, created by an amalgamation of greed,the myth that everyone deserves to OWN a home (I believe everyone deserves to have a home, not everyone should or can own one - this is a privelage you strive fo not a righ of passage),  an overzealous secondary market whose underwriting guidelines were streched beyond all reasonable levels and then resell of loan packages 3-5 times creating profits based on impossiblity of return.

    By rewarding businesses for bad decisions, banks and car makers alike, we do not encourage their industries to innovate to become proftibale through better practises, nor are hey encouraged to give the consumer what they NEED.

    Sorry for the long comment, I have written to representatives of 32 states and only two actually wrote back with a non-canned response.  The other 5 who responded just quoted the party line.  Who elected these people anyway?  ANd are they actually listening to their constituents - I think not!

     

    10:00am • #35

    I agree with almost entirely with you bro.  Another thing to consider is this is not a left vs right thing.  This is not a republican vs democrat thing.  This is about becoming part of a one world government and anyone with any power in DC is a One World proponent or they wouldn't be there. 

    Don't believe me?  Who pays our Secretary of Treasurer (Geithner)?  Not the US government.  The International Monitary Fund.  Who pays the Secretary of State? The IMF.  This is why they never do what is best for US, but rather what is best for the people that pay their salaries... the world banks... the IMF.

    Just more food for thought.

     

    Brian

    Brian
    10:04am • #36

    Our country is being distroyed before our eyes. Atleast we can all live together  in FREE  "state" housing in the future.

    Jim Kelder, Scottsdale,AZ
    10:11am • #37

    What frightens me most is those of you who spew the Fox (Faux) news talking points with no independent thought or research.  It's not the current administration who is putting this country in jeopardy.  They're simply attempting to clean up the huge mess made during the prior 8 years.  No, what is putting this country in jeopardy are the hate mongers ... Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity et. al.  Please people, before you keep quoting all their nonsense, please check it out.  Don't take my word or the the word of any of the mainstream media talking heads.  A good place to start is the non-partisan www.factcheck.org.

    Frightened
    10:11am • #38
    399,370 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    Tim:  We have lived by mobster rule from January 20, 2001 until January 19, 2009.  Now... hopefully we will be getting away from that.  We shall see.  Some folks are still trying to implement mob rule... but whether it will stick remains to be seen.

    10:15am • #39

    I thought that this was active rain, a site for the exchange of ideas about our industry, namely real estate.  Judging from the tone and tenor of the responses, this site is beginning to sound like a MOB, or is this another so called Tea Party?  The fore fathers were not infalliable.  They also said that all men were created equal and that they were endowed by the creator with certain inalienable rights, amongst them, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  The exception to that rule was if you happen to be the wrong skin color.  I will not participate in this site anymore,because it seems as though MOB RULE has taken over,  but I leave you in PEACE!

    10:30am • #40

    #38 I find that most people here are not just about the current administration.  The issue of the problems of the past are coming to a head.  The problem with the current administration is it just put a new spin on the problem during this administration.  They have brought no real solutions to the table, just more rhetoric.  I am a conservative, not a fan of Fox news, they have to make money just like CNN, MSNBC...  It is all a bunch of noise but as far as quoting the Founders of this country who have brought us the vehicle that got us here.  We were given a Rolls Royce and we regulated it to horse drawn manuer spreader.

    10:41am • #41
    107,233 Points 3 Featured Posts

    Excellent post!  One reason the government cannot function properly is because they are taking on way more responsibility than they should in areas where they shouldn't even be involved. You're right, it needs to get back to the basics!

    10:44am • #42
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    Thanks for every comment.  Especially the comments that disagree.  It's important to know that there are still many who think that the government is doing a fine job.  Sometimes it takes awhile to finally wake up.  In my twenties I thought communism and socialism were fine ideas.  The thing that totally snapped me out of it was when I read Frederic Bastiat's The Law. I just could not argue with his logic.  It made things so crystal clear.  The sad thing is that it was written back in 1850 when France was turning to socialism.  I guess this stuff never really changes.

    I'll get around to responding to comments in detail but I have a pretty busy day today.

    FYI, I did write this about 8 months ago and just kept it in draft mode. I find myself doing that a lot.  I like to write in order to organize my thinking.  I'm glad I finally hit the submit button yesterday.

    Again, thanks for all the well thought out responses. Maybe there still is hope for this country. 

    10:55am • #44

    Dear Reality & Frightened...

     

    GET REAL and Get Frightened!

    You cant cherry pick your favorite anecdotes and expect us to believe them....perhaps a healthy dose of Beck or O'Reilly might help.

    Ive listened to Limbaugh, Beck, Oreilly Hannity, Alan Coombes and NPR radio for years and guess what? The only hate of people I found were on the "liberal" stations! Any hate generated by the so-called right extremist ( Oh, I mean independent and god fearing extremist) talk show hosts were for POLICY. But thats pretty typical of the self bloviating self righteous "we know whats best for you because we're enlightened and you aint", "generous with my money and stingy with yours"-crowd. Please, for everyones sake...put a sock in it.

    10:56am • #45

    Excellent debate!!! Unfortunatlely, Washington has continually lost credibility over the last 50 years through covert activities and excessive double talk.  It's not Bill, George, or Obama.  Unfortunately, it's the "New" America...

    It's going to be a long road back from the 90's and the '00's...regardless of whose in office.

    I say "throw 'em all out!  Here's to Mitt in '12!!!   At least he's got some "real world" experience...

    Brian Amster (Keller Williams Arizona Realty)
    11:01am • #46

    Earl Wynn, this is real estate 101 free property.  As for the Founders infallibility, they were humble enough to understand.  We are here today and we should not through out their good principles which led to the eventual civil war over the skin color issue.  I joined and served for an ideal I researched extensively, after all my blood is worth something and you are the beneficiary of that service.  Some people do not want to heal old wounds.  Now for the men of color I refer you to to great men of color and are in my personal favorites as they have led me to the Founders.  Dr. Walter E. Williams, professor, George Mason and Dr Thomas Sowell, professor of Stanford Univiersity.  These men are tremendous intellectuals on economics with a modern point of view.  Do your some some justice and start with those gentlemen.

    Lastly, this subject is exactly about real estate and what encumbers it.  We need to get the government under control. 

    11:02am • #47
    188,053 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

    I agree with everything you have said, but what do you call it when the government bullies an industry into taking foolish risk and then exerts government control over that group of business while providing them with Billions in bailouts? 

    What do you call it when the government subsidizes certain industries or creates laws that favor those industries that they and many of their friends have a big stake in (So called Green Tech is on of these.)?

    What do you call it when the Government passes so many laws it becomes harder and harder to make a living or support a family?

    What do you call it when the Government allows lawyers to rob us blind with law suits?

    What do you call it when Federal Regulation drives up health care cost and then they want to take control of health care to "save us money"?

    What do you call it when government inhibits energy exploration and development?

    What do you call it when my President tells the World the US Sucks and is not the greatest country in the world?

    What do you call it when the President is applauded by the likes of Castro, Chavez, Qaddafi, and Putin?

    What do you call it when our Country's defenses are stripped bare and while petty tyrants build nuclear weapons?

    What do you call it when the Presidents biggest supporters willing to traffic in Child Prostitution and do what ever it takes?

    I am part of a mob!  I have a pitchfork and am ready to use it.

    11:05am • #48

     

    You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

    you cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

    You cannot help the wwage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

    You cannot further the brotherhood of man by encouraging class hatred.

    You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

    You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.

    You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.

    You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

    by Abraham Lincoln

     

    Diana Bowler
    11:05am • #49
    177,256 Points 1 Featured Post

    The first bailout, that of Wall Street, was approved in the Senate by a vote of 74 to 25.  That alone could make for a lot of "fired" senators if this was the criteria for dismissal.  The House was similar with a 263-171 vote.  Nobody much has discussed how to pay for the Tax Cuts, War 1, War 2, Bailout 1, Bailout 2, or Drugs for Seniors, so I guess that isn't important.  Why worry, be happy???

    11:09am • #50

    Gene:  A pitchfork?  Really?  You're willing to resort to violence?  Good God, help us all.

    Frightened
    11:19am • #51

    There are dangerous currents running through American politics and the way we confront them is crucial.  If you read nothing else today, read this.

    http://www.alternet.org/rights/141819/is_the_u.s._on_the_brink_of_fascism/?page=1

    Joan
    11:21am • #52

    www.alternet.org/rights/141819/is_the_u.s._on_the_brink_of_fascism/?page=1

    Joan
    11:22am • #53

    Mr. Moen:

    For your information, I came from a family of military people who fought and died in World War II, The Korean War, The Vietnam War, and Iraq.  Your blood was no more precious than theirs and you also benefited from the service my family has provided.   I was an Economics major in college and I am also intimately familiar with Dr. Williams at George Mason, (I live in Washington), and with the writings of Dr. Sowell, since I read him also.   I have been in the business of Real Estate since 1983.  I became involved because I filed the first fair housing suit in the state of Virginia, because I was not able to live in the neighborhood of my choice due to the color of my skin.  Therefore, I do not need a lecture from you on Real Estate 101.  Moreover,  I have no wounds to heal, but merely a concern about MY COUNTRY!!  Since you want to play the Conservative Card, let me further inform you that I happen to be an African-American card carrying member of the Republican Party, and for the last twenty years that has been my party affiliation.

    Some of the comments made by others have been about real estate as well as informative and some of it has been about hate.  Some have a Mob mentality as in LYNCH MOB!

     

    11:25am • #54

    Nothing this 'man who occupies the Oval Office' does is Constitutional. That, in and of itself, prohibits any kind of 'hope and change' this country needs or wants. It's Chicago thuggery all the way.

    Still waiting for SOMEONE to mention his chairing of the UN Security Council is direct violation of the US Constitution, Article 1 section 9. But then again, Congress (all of them, Rep and Dem) will sit on their hands and allow the Leader of the World do whatever he wants.

    It's a shame really. I had great hope for our first black President. Those were dashed as soon as he agreed to use federal funds for overseas abortion. It's been downhill from there. (and that was like day 2 of his Presidency)

    A Proud American and Patriot

    Stephanie Avery

    Stephanie Avery
    11:38am • #55

    Sergio, you say you've never heard any hate speech from the right wing talking heads.   Here's a few for you:

    "I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for." - Rush Limbaugh, Denver Post, 12-29-95

    "When you strip it all away, Jerry Garcia destroyed his life on drugs. And yet he's being honored, like some godlike figure. Our priorities are out of whack, folks." - Rush (who was at the time under investigation for drug use) Limbaugh, on the death of Jerry Garcia, 08-20-95.

    "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors." - Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, 02-26-02

    "Get rid of the guy. Impeach him, censure him, assassinate him."  - Rep. James Hansen (R-UT), talking about President Clinton, as reported by journalist Steve Miner of KSUB radio who overheard his conversation, 11-01-98

    "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs." - Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX), Mother Jones, 08-95
     

    More from Rush Limbaugh:

    "If you are unskilled and uneducated, your job is going south. Skilled workers, educated people are going to do fine 'cause those are the kinds of jobs Nafta is going to create. If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people, I'm serious, let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do -- let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work." 

    "And another thing: You don't have the right to protest. You're allowed no demonstrations, no foreign flag waving, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. You're a foreigner: shut your mouth or get out! And if you come here illegally, you're going to jail."

    Turns out, the full paragraphs are just as xenophobic and hateful as the isolated quotes. Why? Because Rush Limbaugh is xenophobic and hateful. Funny how that works.

    Frightened
    11:46am • #56
    188,053 Points 1 Featured Post Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

    Mr. Wynn,

    You seem to equate love of country with racism and put images of Racism into your response (Lynch Mob).  It is not about the color of any ones skin.  I voted for a Black Man for President a long time ago (Allen Keys in the 2000 primary).

    People often use race as an excuse for bad behavior.  The Klan did and it was deplorable.  When any criticism of President Obama is immediately called racist it is the same thing.

    Frightened should know that the mob is this case is angry voters headed to the polls and wanting to use the legitimate tools of the Constitution to solve our problems.  When I am deprived of my Constitution I suspect many of us will stand shoulder to shoulder for Freedom.

    Tim, I am sorry that I now find myself on your post defending myself.  I do not want to dominate your fine post.

    11:52am • #57

    Conflict is like catnip. The right-wing hate mongers scurries over to it. They sniff at it. They bat it back and forth. They roll in it. They. Just. Can't. Get. Enough.

    They're masters of manipulation. And when we let our attention get diverted from the real issues, we're all in trouble.

    If they gave out Emmy Awards for conspiracy theories, conservative pundits would need a bigger trophy case. Whether it's Fox News hyperventilator Glenn Beck calling President Obama a racist, or radio bloviator Rush Limbaugh pushing the "government death panels" lie, you can be sure they'll find some way to rile up their base.

    Their claims would be laughable - if they weren't so profitable.

    Joan
    11:53am • #58

    Gene, you claim the constitution is being dismantled by the Obama administration.  Please provide SPECIFIC examples of how they are doing this.  Your statement and opinion is not sufficient.

    Here a SPECIFIC example of how the Bush administration ignored and dismantled the constitution:

    Bush claimed an inherent power to imprison American citizens whom he has determined to be this country's enemies without obtaining a warrant, letting them hear the charges against them, or following other safeguards against wrongful punishment guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Under his administration, the government engaged in inhumane treatment/torture of prisoners, and when Congress passed legislation to ban such treatment, he declared he would simply interpret the law his own way. Although the Constitution says treaties are the "supreme law of the land," Bush abrogated them on his own. And, we now know, he ordered a secret program of electronic surveillance of Americans without court warrants.  All in violation of the constitution.

    Frightened
    12:01pm • #60
    163,964 Points 10 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

    Hello Tim,

    It is a tremendous irony that perhaps...just perhaps....the GOOD job the Obama Administration has done pulling us back from the abyss of total financial collapse may sow the seeds of its destruction... and our economy's destruction.  How quickly these this trickle-down crowd forgets.  I will use the words of Ronald Reagan to the supply-siders "There you go again!" trotting out the same tired  ideas that were shown last year to fail, utterly, completely - and - without massive governement intervention - catastrophically.  Forgive me while I don't applaud.. The stubborn zeal and refusal to see what glaringly obvious about supply-side "voodoo economics" (GHW Bush) is bordering on a religious extremism is simply too terrifying.  I guess we literally needed to FALL OFF THE CLIFF for you guys to learn anything.  Obama should have let the world economy collapse under its own bad ideas!  YUP!!! That's the answer.  Have millions more lose their livlihoods, homes, and die in the streets.  THEN and only THEN could he gotten the job done and received credit for saving the world economy without all this crazy fanatics waving the supply-side flag.

    It was supply-side, laissez-faire clap-trap where we took a weed whacker to regulation that got us into this mess in the first place.  Now you have the audacity to suggest that we need more of the same?  As Karen-Anne said above - we lived with mobster rule for 8 years.  It's hard to grow up isn't it?  Growing up means sometimes exchanging idealogy for what actually WORKS.  What Obama is doing is working. Let him do his job because he is cleaning up the mess you Ayn Rand disciples created.  Growing up means  recognizing  that you LOST THE ELECTION and that the other half of the country is strangely insistant on rejecting your  policies because they got us into this mess in the first place.

    The last acts of the Bush Administration, the current activity in the Obama Administration,  the steady hand of Ben Bernanke (a student of the great depression) and all those programs you so loathe are probably the main reason we are blogging right now and not standing on bread lines.

     

     

    12:17pm • #61

    Tim,

    You seem to want to have it both ways.  Small government and limited intrusion in the economy. Meaning de-regulation, and the foxes telling the chicken that fences and watchdogs are expensive and counterproductive (and on cable TV, they're Un-American).  So we run the economy and government the way you suggest, the foxes convince the chickens they're good guys (you know, the perfect efficiency and honesty of the marketplace) and that fences are un-American and must come down.  The foxes, who always planned to eat the chickens, get fat on their new diet, and the remaining chickens get mad (the mob), ask for the fences to go back up.  And you get mad at the chickens.  Ah, the contradictions of right wing populist political philosophy. 

    You also seem to believe that greedy homeowners were responsible for the mortgage-backed derivatives manipulations by Wall Street.  Okay.  Believe that if you will.  Without some intrusion of that "big government" you loath, the people are not free from predation anyway.  Reagan was wrong: big government is not the problem, bad government is the problem, though the simplistic approach is to refuse to make that distinction.  Hey, the rich have just as much right to blame others for their failures as the poor do.

    P.S. The Constitution doesn't stipulate the size of government, just it's organizing principles.  In 1789, when the Constitution was ratified, and the only citizens recognized were free, land-owning, white males the government served what? 4 million?  Got to be bigger and more complex with 300+ Million Citizens, the largest and most sophisticatd economy, military apparatus, etc.

    I think your mob (mobsters) are less the greedy homeowners with naive assumptions, than fellow citizens looking for a level playing field, and a few more fences (yes, built by the "big, bad government") and some watchdogs (ouch, sounds like regulatory agency to me) to make sure the ruling oligarchy and plutocracy in this society haved something other than chicken for dinner at every meal. 

    Stay warm in that fox coat this winter.

     

    12:21pm • #62

    It is obvious by the comments on this post that nobody agrees how we got here.  In my opinion, and I have worked for the FED in the past, it is the result of poor policy established by both Dem's and Republicans in the past.  Politician's are so busy trying to please the masses, lobbyists, interest groups, etc., that they often overlook the long term effects of their decisions.

    When the "everyone should own a home" policy was implemented, I am sure as many democrats as republicans benefited from this program. 

    We are responsible for this as we have protrayed "The American Dream" and set the stage that anyone could have it.  WE have inticed many to come here with shows like "Housewives of Orange County", "Cribs", etc. that implicate that ALL Americans live this way.  Who lives like that?  Not me.  Many of the people who have lost their homes bought into this idea with the prompting of greedy realtors and mortgage brokers who "pushed" their products in order to increase their income.  Promises of gains of "50%" per year.  I think licensees need a little more education in Economics, etc. as many agents I work with don't have a clue about how the economy works.  Supply and Demand are not in their vocabularies.

    The listing and selling of the Mortgage Back Securities as being AAA did not help.  Liars like that belong in jail with Bernie Madoff.  That was total fraud.  There should be some accountabilty (legally) for the individuals and companies that overexaggerated the value of those investments.  Had they been ligitimate, many would not have bought them, which would have halted additional funds into the system.

    Had there not existed "NO DOC LOANS" we may have prevented this disaster.  Also, had banks been not so eager or pressured to refinance homes that had loans that were only a few months old, this may have also been avoided.  It wasn't until late in the game when banks started imposing costly fees for refinancing within 2-3 years.  Many owners are upside down because of 125% financing, extensive refinancing, etc.  They have spent that equity on Escalades, TV's, vacations, or worse, another house they cannot afford.  In addition, maybe we should have raised the interest rates to slow down the inflation of the homes.  It could have halted the rapid escalation of home prices.  The lower rates were first implemented to get the economy going before and after 9/11.  The FED should have stepped in when the housing prices were rising so rapidly.

    But let's face it, had the "NO DOC LOAN" not been so abused, I think a lot of people would have been out of the market, as they should have since I know of many who lied (not my buyers) about thier incomes to purchase a home they could not afford in the first place, hoping to flip it to make a quick buck.  It is not predjucdice to deny credit to someone who cannot show they can pay it back.  That is just good business.  When we impose bad business practices on banks and scare them with lawsuits of discrimination, they are likely to give in and do the loans.  I have advised clients to "NOT" buy a house when I realized they were living rent free with a relative and had nothing saved.  I asked how they could make a house payment if they could not save any money when they were living for free.  Too many people who bought homes were not fiscally responsible to make the purchase.  The fact that many of the defaults are the subprime loans only supports credit scoring for loans, etc.  I guess this EXPERIMENT of giving credit to those that have been deemed unworthy for so many years has proven that the credit scores do represent the likelyhood of someone defaulting and it is not discrimination.

    Let's face it, I have gotten a lot of slack about being a tightwad in my life.  But I have lost jobs, gotten sick and been through a lot and learned the one person I can depend upon is myself.  It is much easier than filling out gov't paperwork and standing in line.  That is my last option, not my first and it certainly is not part of my gameplan.  I can count a lot of buyers I met or who came to open houses that indicated they would just walk if the house declined in price.  I did not work with these people.  My husband says I talk a lot of people out of buying houses.  But then, I want to work "ethically" in Real Estate, if that is at all possible.

    I can tell you I spent a lot of time reselling homes that were owned by people who were way over their heads.  I asked them how they ever got the loan in the first place and they told me their mortgage broker filled out the paperwork.  I am also aware of mortgage brokers, agents and appraisers working together in a neighborhood to drive up prices because they owned real estate in these neighborhoods as part of a LLC, etc. and then they would either refi and walk or sell for a quick profit.  All the while the defenseless buyers in these neighborhoods are now upside down on their homes and losing them.  I think there should be some mortgage brokers, appraisers and real estate agents going to jail or in the least, getting fined for unethical behavior.  Most buyers won't turn them in because they were just as much at fault by signing fraudulent loan applications.

    If Obama or whoever is president and running this country wants to get out of this mess, he/she needs to repeat the words of Ronald Regan, "There is no free lunch".  What I believe Regan meant by that was there is always a cost for everything either today or somewhere down the road.  Like I said, policy by politicians is short sighted as were the intentions of many of these home buyers, and that is the problem.  Policies were implemented to address flaws in previous policies and it has just snowballed and fallen apart now. 

    We are ALL responsible as a country for this mess, as we all benefitted from it in someway I am sure.  Not everyone is responsible enough to own a home and not everyone cares or is worried about the impact a foreclosure or short sale will have on their credit.  Case in point, a short sale only effects their credit for 2 years?  That is great.  Anyone who had a short sale 2 years ago can now buy a home?  I hope not.  How lucky are they if they can buy in this market?  I am seeing the banks impose notes on short sales now and I endorse that.  Seeing someone walk away from their property because they owe more on it than it is worth and it won't be worth what they owe on it again in their lifetime is not a good enough reason for me.  Homes are not liquid assets like stocks and for some reason, Television shows have portrayed that image by running shows like "Flip this House", "House Flippers", etc. 

    Read the news and you will see that in the last few weeks, the border crossing at San Diego has had several incidents with people crossing in vans/cars packed with illegals charging our borders.  This is indicative of what has been going on in the past, except now that we are really stopping them at other areas (Arizona, S. Cal, Texas, etc.) these people are getting more agressive.  I had a former illegal become a citizen recently tell me that it is the RIGHT of anyone to become a citizen of this country.  Until we take back control of our country and implement policy that protects our CITIZENS, we are doomed.  The policy of the past is NOT in the best interest of the majority.  And the only voices that should be heard are those of our citizens. 

    It is time we speak up and make politicians clean up our country and hold people responsible for their actions.  As a parent, I have had to do this with a child in the past.  He was headed down a road of self destruction much like our country.  Three years later, he is an A+ college student getting ready to graduate and go to grad school.  It was tough love, but it was worth it because he gets it.  I told him it was his life, and if wanted to mess it up, he could.  But I would not bail him out.  We need to do some "Tough Love" on our citizens who think this country owes them something in exchange for nothing on their part other than irresponsible behavior.  As JFK said, who was a great democrat, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". 

     

    malc
    12:32pm • #63

    Tim,

    Great topic for discussion. I can't think of anything that could be more polarizing than this topic. I count myself in your camp as well. Although Arthur points out the government needing to step in, I think he misses the main point you were trying to make. I agree they needed to step in to deal with this emergency. However, this is an emergency that they are responsible for creating! How nice of them to step in and save us. And "reality" is about as far from true reality as one can be.

    To me it seems most of these problems started in the Clinton administration. Things even got worse in the Bush administration. Obama appears to be taking it to a new level! Government corruption and favors have no party boundaries. Bottom line: We need to limit the power of this corrupt group on the Potomac, and return more of the power back to the individual states.

    12:34pm • #64

    Add more fuel to the fire.  We no longer have a Democracy we have a Lobbyocracy.  Lobbyists rule from both side of the fence.  John Menard Keynes, his economics is in our DNA.  Our countries economic policies are modeled on his theories.  Oh, and by the way, much of our own(realtor) income is dependent on Government programs and subsidies.  Where do you think FHA Loans and 5% mortgages come form.  Take away the tax credit, loan subsidies, interest rate intervention, tax deductible interest, property tax deduction, all kinds of Tax Shelters, and plenty more.  The Granddaddy of them all, the no tax on gains on personal residence, 80-90% of us would be on the bread lines, no unemployment benefits.  The reason for the Federal Reserve was to limit the huge booms and busts.  The banks were making too much money to stop the gravy chain.  A large institutional failure(FED), failed to do what it was intended to do.  The rest is history.  The mob will rule again, when the currency crisis arrives, 75% odds, property will again be a good place to park ones cash.    

    Roger Hansen
    12:38pm • #65

    Mr Moen,

     

    This isnt about skin color although many try to make it such. I dont disagree with Obama because he's black as CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS  and that old Fool Carter would have you believe. Why is it when we disagree with policys on a fiscal or social level, suddenly Im a racist??

    My heritage (Italian) has been discriminated againt in the early part of this century as many were. That is human nature. We have come a long way in this country with very Little help from the far left or democratic party for that matter. It took a republican Pres and congress to enact Civil rights legislation back in the day while a democratic senate fillibustered it! Bet they dont teach that in school!  DOnt get me wrong, most republicans need to go too.  Instead of looking at it from a Dem vs Repub issue, it should be a We the People issue vs a tryanical State.  Pick a side then have the guts to defend it.

    Incidentily, the civil war wasnt fought over slavery. It was another case of the industrial north/ Federalists trying to bully the south and make them subverient. They knew slavery ( black or white indentured servants to the land) was the key to shut them down economically and shut them up.

    ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN FREE regardless of color.  This premise that we are Racist because we arent walking around with signs that say Pro-Black/ANTI white is ubsurd.

    WE THE PEOPLE. Just pull your weight! Or alt least dont tell me what to do with the nickels I can rub together when you have gold in your coffers confiscated by those that DO...

     

    enough....

    12:49pm • #66

    It was the BUSH administration that passed the BAIL out, Henry Paulson former head of Goldman Sachs that pushed for it.

    All I keep hearing is smaller government - this is a pipe dream. The GOVERNMENT is in every apspect of life and will continue to be here. All of us on this site are realtors or loan officers and ALL benefited from the boom and now the crash. If it was not for the government then NONE of US would be selling homes today, because all of the big banks would have collapsed.

    I thought the crazies were only on TV but I see that they are here too!

    So I assume you adovate for government to stay out of everything and leave it to private industry right? Well what the heck do you call the housing collapse? It was PRIVATE WALL STREET that ruined it. And you want more????  

    Charles Givens
    12:55pm • #67

    I just love this place! I love all the different ideas everyone here has presented and be it known now I'm no expert on this subject. I was new to real estate when housing was as easy to sell as a basket of tomatoes fresh out of the garden. It didn't matter what the offer price was. We all knew the appraisers would make it happen. I actually believed this was the way it worked as I merrily went to the bank to cash my commission checks. So now with Active Rain at my finger tips I am learning so much more than I ever thought I would. Thank you every one for each and every point of view. Maybe one day I to can contribute my own blog, but for now I will just read and learn. I just felt like saying something here after reading every opinion. I believe that with the freedom to express all the points of view that a peaceful and productive conclusion will happen.

    James Pierce
    1:29pm • #68

    Uhmm...Sir , the Housing collapse was in the largest part due to FNMA/FDMC and the Federal govt pushing loans to people who couldnt afford them.  I thought that much was obvious. 

    And there are plenty of solid banks and thrifts.....not just the ones you see on Tv.

    How about the Fed just doing what the Constitution empowers it to do and leave the rest to the State govts....so at least us "crazies" have a voice in our destiny....

    1:29pm • #69

    #66, What Repbulican official are you referring to that passed Civil rights legislation???? It was Lyndon B. Johnson A DEMOCRAT that passed the most civil rights legislation of any president!

    Either way, America's TRUE history has both racist Republicans and Democrats.

    As far as discrimmination - no other race in this country were ever slaves. So to equate you being Italian to the same as being black or discrimminated against is laughable! In took until 1971 to pass swimming pool integration laws into the south, to allow black children to swim in white pools. That's only 38 years ago.

    Racisim is alive and strong in this country. People don't like to talk about it, but the it was just 40 years ago that the voting rights law was passed. This means that the same segrationist that were brutalizing the black community ARE STILL ALIVE AND WELL AND STILL VOTING!

    The Conferdates made their living and livelyhood off the backs of slaves. They believed that if slavery was no more there economy (in the South) would collapse. Either way, there are 30 somethings right now in the south that are the sons of the racist 60's, and they are the tea baggers we witnessed in Washington.

     

    Claudia Hanes
    1:30pm • #70

    Friends, we will never move forward in this crucial discussion by name calling and playing the blame game. There is plenty of blame to go around, both past and present. Many posts have digressed into self-serving comments about race and political parties and it's apparent that they have an "ax to grind". Government control/takeover of private business and how the government spends our tax dollars is quite relevant to the real estate industry. I am heartened that Americans are finally standing up to and speaking out about out of control gov't spending and gov't takeover of private industry. This cannot be denied by anyone - it is happening and a reality. The problem didn't start with President Obama, but he certainly is perpetuating the problem. It's all about ideology, not skin color, political party or other.

    1:31pm • #71

    Let's really look at the FACTS here. 

    georgewbush waving tbiWith

    With all the hollering about the latest deficit projection -- a very scary $9 trillion over 10 years -- it's instructive to think what led to the gap.

    There's plenty of blame to pass around, but just seven and one half months into his first term, it's hard to fault Barack Obama.  Good Lord, he was left one hell of a mess to clean up.

    It's been well-reported that the nearly $2 trillion deficit under Obama this year really has very little to do with Obama's policies. In fact, Obama's most concerning contribution to our deficit is his continuation of Bush policies, including tax cuts for households making under $250K and the ongoing wars in the Middle East.

    Let's deal in reality and not hyperbole.

    Joan
    1:40pm • #72

    #68, Sergio, what did you do previously to being an Asset Manager?

    The housing collapse was NOT due to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac giving out loans. This country has over $15 Trillion worth of mortgage loans and at the height of the market Fannie and Freddie owned 27% of this. The rest over 70% is and was owned by WALL STREET.

    Fannie and Freddie MAC did not issue option ARM loans, or NINA loans. You had to document your income when getting a home loan with Fannie/Freddie products.

    It was Bear Sterns otherwise known as EMC and Lehman Brothers also known as Aurora Mortgage, along with Countrywide, now Bank of America that created the No DOC and or liar loans. Then you had Indymac and numerous others, that also issued crazy liar loans!

    Fannie & Freddie were mismanaged but did not create Credit Default Swaps (CDO's). It was WALL STREET. Then Wall Street issued over $57 Trillion in bad investments all over the world, connected to these bad mortgages. They started to default and the insurer of these risky investments, AIG, did not have the TRILLIONS to insure them.

    In 1999 the investment banks were DEREGULATED and allowed to start messing in the banking/mortgage world. This was prohibited for over 50 years!

    The highest FORECLOSURES in this country are not loans owend by Fannie/Freddie. They are and were owned by Wall Street Investment Banks & Countrywide.

     

    Chalres Givens
    1:41pm • #73
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    Marcia Wray, I love Thomas Jefferson.  Thanks for your comment.

    Steve, Thanks, I'm glad to see there seems to be many who agree.

    Rich Kapman, I am late in posting this. I actually wrote it in February but thought I'd try to tweak it alittle to improve what I was trying to say.  There's still time to vote them out.

    Jeanne Hall,  We have to keep the heat on.  You see how they constantly keep downplaying the tea parties and protests.  Persistant pressure is what's needed.

    Nan Gagliano, We can't remain being the silent majority.  We have to get mad as hell and tell them we aren't going to take it anymore.

    Elizabeth Payne, I'm afraid the country is past the point of being saved financially.  It's just a matter of how we accept our bankruptcy.  Do we do it quickly or do we do it slowly and allow the connected people to stay a step ahead.

    Russell Lewis,  We should learn from the S&L crisis.  We shut them down and sent some people to jail.  I really think most of the big banks are bankrupt.  Why haven't we shut them down and sent people to jail yet?  Government does have a role in business.  It needs to stop and prosecute fraud and enforce the laws on the books.  Government shouldn't be picking the winners and losers.  It is the referee that makes sure everyone plays by the same rules.

    1:44pm • #74

    Tim, interesting how you only address those who agree with you and ignore everything else.  Sigh.  There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    Joan
    1:47pm • #75

    Claudia,

     

    You can start with Abraham Lincoln.

    The Roman Empire held slaves of every race.

    In the early 1900s Italian werent allowed the the places frequented by the Irish.

    And as far as I can tell. blacks like Jeesse J and Sharpton and still brutalizing their own and taking advantage and race baiting..turning their own in to Haters while most ( most not all, its never all on either side) just wanna work, raise a family and live their lives.  Or do you think us white folk are really just here to push that poison into poor neighborhoods????

    Craziest stuff I ever heard...cant believe its 2009!

    I will not be held accountable for what "people" did 30-40 years ago. Maybe its time you should get past it.

    1:48pm • #76

    Folks, homes are NOT a growth asset. Homes are a WASTING asset. Homes depreciate. Homes require repair, some more than others. The market does NOT care how much money you put into your home to make it what it is. The market will tell you two things; one, you have had the enjoyment of what you spent, and two, what your home is worth to you may not be what your home is worth to the market. Back in the day of easy money and credit the payback ratio was about 65% but nowadays the payback ratio is 35% as the market has been drained of its liquidity. A home mortgage is nothing more than a glorified lease as 30 years is required to pay it off. I was in on the beginning of the bubble. I have a fair idea of who the parties were that were responsible. Only a few real estate agents, appraisers and lenders were needed. Once they got the market going the rest could be controlled by auto-pilot. I would like to find them and hang them by their toes over a hill of red Texas fire ants. Their greed caused the loss of this country's net worth to a few who then spent it in profligate living and to their own benefit leaving the rest of us to clean up after them. The banks that participated in this little exercise of greed were the ones that were bailed out by the government. Why? They had their boys in place with some very convincing arguments but I won't go into what those arguments could have been. Suffice to say, there is Yah, Who is seated on His Throne, high above all principalities and powers. He will judge on the last day. Then the sentence will be meted out for all the harm that has been done and the misery that has been caused. Bankers were to be STEWARDS of the public trust and not those who would exploit it for their own benefit.

    steven davis
    1:56pm • #77
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    Joan,  I'm going down the list one by one in my responses. Cut me a break.  I'm sorry that I don't have all day to sit in front of my computer.  I have other things I need to get done today.  I'll be back later tonight to respond to each and every comment. 

    I definantely want to respond to each one of your comments because I really want to get you on the right track.  It seems that you have some interesting thoughts about things.  Nothing I will say will change your attitudes but I feel compelled to at least try.  Exchanging ideas is what it's all about. 

    1:56pm • #78

    Sorry Charles, but you are wrong.

    I am a mitigator ( for the homeowner) and I see everday where these loans are being held and by who.

    Sure wall street bought them up but they were originated by Fanni and freddie and the word from administraions like Clintons TO MAKE LOANS! Although subprime ARMs represent only 6.8% of the outstanding mortgages in the United States, they account for 43% of home foreclosures. nOW ITS CASCADING TO PRIMES AS NEIGHBORHOODS ARE BECOMING DEAD ZONES.

    tHEY WERE BUNDLED AND SOLD OFF....BUT THEY WERE ORIGINATED WHEN THEY SHOULDNT OF.

    sORRY. But you are dead wrong.

     

    1:57pm • #79

    In 1999, Fannie Mae came under pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans to low and moderate income borrowers by increasing the ratios of their loan portfolios in distressed inner city areas designated in the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.[10] Due to the increased ratio requirements, institutions in the primary mortgage market pressed Fannie Mae to ease credit requirements on the mortgages it was willing to purchase, enabling them to make loans to subprime borrowers at interest rates higher than conventional loans. Shareholders also pressured Fannie Mae to maintain its record profits.[10]

     

    theres more but why bother....

    2:05pm • #80

    Can you spell A-R-R-O-G-A-N-T?  Compelled to get me on the right track Tim, lol?!?  Yes, it is about exchanging ideas with a respectful and open mind. 

    I am happy to listen to your ideas.  Are you equally as happy to listen to mine with an open mind?  Just guessing here, but I don't think so. 

    Joan
    2:10pm • #81

    Roger Hansen had a good coment that I agree with. No matter who is running "the Show" the rich generally stay rich and the poor stay poor. The middle class is now being squeezed to end up poor.

    The pundits love this stuff, they get to keep their jobs, write their books and make a boat load off it

    2:19pm • #82

    There are none so closed minded as the liberal elites who think they know best how to run everybody elses lives.  You want to make the rest of us follow you to the poorhouse of communism. 

    I feel sorry for you for thinking that history will be different this time and your idealistic socialism and communism won't fail.  The laws of economics don't change for politicians. 

    Your president has lied over and over again - look at his campaign speeches and now look at his policies.  Karl Marx said the "end justifies the means" and your president has taken that to heart.

    Either you think you will be one of the few on top when the entire USA is bankrupt or you have been hynotized by the teleprompter in chief. 
     

    Real Reality
    2:22pm • #83

    Sergio,

    It all depends what area (location) you are mitigating. You may be in a higher unemployment area. Fannie/Freddie loans are all documented income loans - so if people are defaulting it's because they have lost their jobs or had some impact on their income.

    It's not because they bought a home for $560k and only made $30k/year, that could have NEVER been a Fannie/Freddie loan.

    How do you explain the fact that Fannie/Freddie own less than 30% of the mortgage market?

    I will respecfully disagree with you. Bill Clinton signed the deregulation of Wall Street Bill, which was written by Phil Gramm a REPUBLICAN along with his other Republican buddies. This bill repealed the Depression era Glass-Seagall act which did not allow Wall Street to get involved in the mortgage industry. It did not deregulate  Fannie/Freddie. 

    Phil Gramm also inserted a key provision into the 2000 Commodity Futures Modernization Act that exempted over-the-counter derivatives like credit-default swaps from regulation by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Credit-default swaps took down AIG, which has cost the U.S. $150 billion thus far.

    Phil Gramm's wife was a board of Director of Enron, which stole billions of dollars from California in the fake Electricity Crisis.

    Again, Fannie/Freddie is a dime in the bucket compared to the Trillions Wall Street issued.

    Interesting point of view, but I've been in the business for over 20 years and NEVER have we had the exposure that Wall Street created. Remember that Fannie was created in 1938 - Wall Street got their dirty hands in the game in 1999.

     

     

    Charles Givens
    2:23pm • #84

    Real Reality:  you said "Your president has lied over and over again - look at his campaign speeches and now look at his policies."

    Again, give me specifics.  Just because you claim it doesn't make it so.  Truth/Reality vs. Lies/Hyperbole/Fantasy.  Do you know the difference?

    Reality
    2:32pm • #85
    Outside Blog

    It is pretty silly to belive that the guy who is running the best country in the free world--wants it to fail. President Obama is doing the best in a bad situation. I guess a few do not remember that the economy was in free fall before the election. There was talk of a major depression--which would have meant many of us would not be online. Too busy looking for food. The foreclosure pace has slowed--we are still making deals. If the bottom would have fallen out--it would have been years before there would have been a use for a Realtor. Talk to someone who tried to work in the 80's. Guess what stopped that crisis? That's right a government program. ( Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery, and Enforcement Act of 1989 ) I try to stay apolitical--but enough is enough.

    2:36pm • #86

    Thank you Al.  Well said.

    Joan
    2:38pm • #87

    Sergio,

    You were referring to America when you made your statement about racisim correct? I was not referring to World History. There were never any LAWS in this country prohibiting Italians from swimming, voting or being slaves. Yes there was discrimination but it was never LEGAL law. No people ever deserve to be discriminated against, but America has a lot of dirty laundry and when it's aired, it makes everyone uncomfortable.

    Not sure if you are in tune to what is happening in this country, but what happened 30 years ago, were by people STILL LIVING. No one is asking you to pay for it. I am merely stating facts.

    Jesse & Al do not speak for the entire black race in this country. It's like saying that all white folk listen to Country Music - ignorant. The media for some reason make them into leaders of the black community. Not all black americans would state that they need them to speak for the entire race, and they don't.

    When you tell people to "get over it", and you have people showing up to the tea bagger march, with signs like, "OBAMAS PLAN = WHITE SLAVERY",  HISTORY IS THERE FOR YOU. Or you had another tea bagger stating, "Muslims are taking over this country!" It's mere ignorance. The same ignorance that was spoken every day in the 60's.

    What I am stating is that people who were alive and well only 40 years ago, still live today and instill the ugliness of racism to their children. Those children are in their 30's and 40's, still sharing their parents point of views. It's not like we are talking about 100 years ago.

    Its not all Americans, not even half of the population, but the ones that are hateful, still have the right to vote and express there feelings. It's disturbing, but to dismiss the fact that it exists and to tell people to get over it, is not dealing with reality.

    Claudia Givens
    2:51pm • #88

    I am white.  My children are black (adopted).  I live in one of the reddest counties in the reddest states.  Shortly after Obama won the election, school children in a town near me were chanting "Assassinate Obama" on their school bus.  It made national headlines.  Yes, it is very disturbing.  Where do those children get their ideas?  From their very racist parents.

    Frightened
    3:04pm • #89

    ... oh, and one of my son's schoolmates said to him "I hope you can shave off that black skin, because we don't allow black kids in our school."  Two days after Obama won the election.  Racism is alive and well, I'm sad to say.

    Frightened
    3:21pm • #90

    This is very scary stuff. When Obama became President less than a year ago, the US Economy, and even worse, the World Economy was ready to collapse. We were on the verge of losing everything. Banks gone. Savings gone. Pensions gone. So who is to blame? I'm sure there is plenty of that to go around. The greed of Wall Street? Our Financial Institutions? The Government for not exercising the oversight necessary to keep abuses from occuring? So if the choice is finding ways to bail out the economy so we avert disaster, I say "go for it!" Once the crisis is over, then we need to put checks and balances in place so this won't happen again.

    We are all in this together folks. We are the Government. The World is a big place, and in case you haven't noticed, most new advances in science and medicine are happening overseas. If we don't act smartly, we will become a 3rd World Power. So wake up and smell the roses. We are a great country, but to stay that way we can't hide in the past. We're in the 21st Century, not the 18th. And the World is a very different place.

    Bonnie Berliner
    3:36pm • #91

    Earl, I will apologize for the my pointed commentary.  As far as the Founders go they did not stop slavery but that does not stop the principles they set forth to be needed today.  One of those principles is the reason for the Civil War.  Too bad we are still talking color of skin and race.  I am Polish and my family came from Poland to escape extermination in the last century.  Both Russian and German nationalists wanted polish people wiped out.  Hard to notice since the Germans overtly tried to eliminate the Jews.  It is bad you are still subject to racism.  I am still targeted by it as well.  I have been confronted by a German American who would stated I would be better dead than Polish and did not want me helping his son, a fellow veteran purchase a home.  My company in Wisconsin is partnered by minority owner and we being service members who were involved in the recent wars have the same beliefs we want to live those inalienable rights as described.  We try to build a community, race is a barrier.  Want school choice and that is taken away.  Want the best for children and those around us and we want true justice.  This is not about race, color or party affiliation it is about allowing a minority of elitists against us.  The elitists do not want white slaves as someone suggested, they do not want black slaves, they want all us sheep as slaves.  I am assuming you and I are for the same cause and that is what is best for our families, we want opportunity and fairness.  I surely do not want to have handouts.  I want to also inform you that I have suffered a disability and that I was asked to go and apply for the benefits.  I declined, I can still function quite well.  I do live with pain when I choose to feel it.  I do not want to burden the already burdened tax payer which I am one of.  I want you and the rest of the people who are paying the price to wake up and see the tyrant and get on the battlefield with me and oppose it.  This tyrant is republican, is democrat, is in the government halls in your state, my state, your county, my county, your city and mine.  Most of all they are all backed by the hill in Washington and they do not care about you being discriminated against unless they con profit from it.  

    Sergio, do agree with you, did not bring up race or color.  My background is same as yours.

    Alan Keyes is a tremendous patriot on the front lines of the war.  If he would have beat Geroge II we would have hope and change.  Yes I voted for him.

    3:51pm • #92
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    #10 Ling Bunch. Thanks for stopping by.

    #11 Wayne and Linda,  I saw that cartoon before.  Isn't it amazing how things don't seem to change.  It's the same old problems over and over again.  That's why I laugh at people pooh poohing principles that are 100 or 200 years old.  The basics really don't change.  Things get bigger and more complex but the basic principles are the same as they ever were.

    #12  Mark Watterson,  Bailouts create what they call "moral hazzard".  You take risks you normally wouldn't because you feel that you have a backstop to catch you if you fail.  It's nice to have a safety net but it's human nature to milk it for all it's worth.  Why save or be prudent if the government is there to bail you out?

    #13 Arthur Chapman, Educate me here.  Who was responisble for allowing those CDOs getting leveraged to insane levels?  Why were these companies allowed to do such insane things and put the system at risk? The problem hasn't been solved.  The connected players are being made whole while all the losses and still there.  They are just being swept over to the taxpayers.  They just kicked the can a little further down the road.  I have read the book, "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Maddness of Crowds" which covers many of history's bubbles.  Another more current book is "Mobs, Messiahs and Markets".  I also think that "Crash Proof" by Peter Schiff is a very good book to understand what's been going on.  A great blog that I've been for a year now is The Market Ticker by Karl Denniger.

    4:16pm • #93

    Sergio, I went back to review your comment to me.  I want to clarify that yes I agree with you as well as the Civil War.  The eltists then used race/slavery to further their subversive attack on the states and centralize power.  Dr. Walter Williams makes the case the war was not necessary as economics would eliminate slavery.  Still racism exists and will to the end of time as their is another working in the background.  On George Washington, the slaves cost more than his estate earned.  Why would he do that?

    On the Civil War it was fought, slavery was ended.  The reasons it was fought may be but slavery ended.  Yes opportunists were involved and they have gone wild since with their cause growing a rapid pace.  Thus the Camparison of Obama to Lincoln.  We have a two party system here today, us the governed against them the governors. 

    Frightened, if I was in your community I would definelty stand against the stupidity, had a gun pointed at me in my own home town for defending my friends who were of color and of hispanic background.  Some misguided want to be skin head.  As for your liberal rant I would also be against, as your answer to the problem is far the other way.  Clinton, Bush, Cheney, Obama... it is us against them.  They have taken an elitist point of view.  The current economic situation has pulled us out of the delusional state we were in.  It is now time to pull together and cleanse the national, state, county and city halls.  Some one stated he is getting the pitch fork, needed to prod, someone needs to get the broom for sweeping and someone needs to get the M16 to reinforce the eviction.

    Tim, we mention the founding and race comes up to silence the voice of principle. 

    Yes we live in 2009 and ignorance and hate still exists like cockroaches.

    4:27pm • #94

    Alan Keyes in nuttier than a fruitcake!  Alan Keyes, Beck, LImbaugh, Hannity and O'Reilly should get together and start a new political party based on promoting mass hysteria.  That's what they're best at, and by buying into these right wing nut jobs you propogate the very thing you say you don't want:  the destruction of our country.

    LOL
    4:33pm • #95
    Outside Blog

    Tim, the government has being trying to legislate something that can not be legislated. That something is morality. It is fairness. What we do not realize is two things,

     

    1. We are all in this together.

    2. Anything material will not last forever.

    We live in a corporate, industrial society. Something the late President Dwight W. Eisenhower said just before he left office is we must never let this country degenerate into a corporate, industrial state. And guess what, that is exactly what happened

    4:54pm • #96

    Ok, everyone that thinks Obama doesn't lie. Why are we even having this discussion ? You've been told over and over again that Obama turned the economy around this month or last. If that's true this blog and all of these responses are irrelevant and we are too busy working to be bickering. In fact, this comment is a figment of Limbaugh's, Hannity's and Palin's imagination and you're being unpatriotic (possibly racist) just because you're reading it.

    5:10pm • #97

    Love him or hate him, I'd like to remind everyone here that President Obama was elected by a clear majority of American citizens.  He inheriited a country nearly ruined by the excesses and lies of the Bush administration (isn't it ironic that the party who cries out for less govenment and taxes actually increased goverment three-fold in 8 short years??).  Obama is working tirelessly to accplish the goals for which he was elected:  health care reform, a strenghthened economy, withdrawl from Iraq and repairing the eight-year decline of our abysmal world reputation.  President Obama is incredibly bright and well-spoken, concerned with the common good, seeks consensus at every turn and has shown an amazing grace under incredible pressure.

    I fully support everyone's First Amendement rights to free speech and frequently act on my own, but additonally I believe in well-reasoned arguments, back with facts and logic rather than raw emotion, and common courtesy (we've seen this from some here and not others), especially where there are serious disagreements.  In difficult times, some appreciation for our commonalities is a more powerful statement than contention.  How about we all give it a try?

    Halli Jones
    6:44pm • #98

    I agree,

    you are a very simple person

     

    anti sheeple
    7:02pm • #99
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    #14 Joe Pascal, The best government is the least govenment.  Freedom actually works if you just give it a chance.

    #15  Marlene,  The repeal of the Glass Steagle Act was a big thing that happened during Clinton's watch.  But it really doesn't matter whether it's Republican or Democrat.  The problem is the control that the banking industry has on the government.  The regulators are captured by the corporations.  They go back and forth and scratch each other's backs. 

    #16 Sergio,  Let's clean house.  There are actually some great candidates running for Senate. Rand Paul in Kentucky and Peter Schiff in Connecticutt.  If they are successful it will inspire many more like minded individuals to run.  Ron Paul showed that you can raise all the money you need from many small contributions.  Ten million people giving $100 each will result in $1 billion dollars.  That's plenty of money to have many Congressman compete against the incumbents.

    8:53pm • #100

    So what have we learned in two millennia?    

    "The budget should be balanced;
    the Treasury should be refilled,
    public debt should be reduced,
    the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled,
    and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed
    lest Rome become bankrupt.

    People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."         

    Cicero, 55 BC

    Evidently, nothing....

    Mark Cohen
    9:42pm • #101
    SEP
    25
    1 Featured Post Outside Blog Hit Router

    Interesting blog Tim. A bit extreme, yet, thought provoking. Thanks for sharing.

    12:08am • #102

    I can't believe someone here called Social Security a bailout - does he not realize that we pay in to that - not by choice but by law? We also pay into Medicaid. The only ones who are getting a "bailout" from those programs are the illegal aliens who are collecting!

    Obama seems to think he knows everything and is sticking his nose into far too many places where it doesn't belong. Last week it was education, or was that the week before? Now he wants to control internet access. When I see people say he's working hard for the country, I have to wonder WHAT country? It sure isn't the USA.

    Meanwhile... I agree with you about the bail outs. In my opinion they should not have happened. Nor should the cash for clunkers, nor should a national health care system. NONE of that nonsense is provided for in the constitution. Neither is "redistribution of wealth."

    I can't figure out how people can deny that President Bush and other Republican leaders tried to bring this mortgage crisis under control many years ago. They've shown enough clips on TV with them making the appeal for regulation and a halt to those bad loans. And I've seen Barney Frank enough times stating that Fannie Mae was doing just fine, thank you. There was no reform or regulation necessary.

    They also show clips of BO during the election promising things that he has failed to deliver - and I don't mean things that Congress controls.

    Maybe the folks who still believe all that hype watch the wrong TV stations. Maybe they should check in to FOX now and then.

    Hopefully, more and more of the Obama worshipers will wake up - and help the rest of us vote his sheep out of office next time around. If we don't do it, we'll see the end of free enterprise.

    1:51am • #103

    Capitalism is not a dirty word.

    Greed is Balanced by Fear (fear of Loss) in free trade capitalism.

    Bailouts remove the Fear. Government can not control the economy.

    Thank you for writing this - sometimes I wonder why Realtors have little concern for Capitalism, the rule of law and the stregth of contract law (destoyed by the auto Bailouts and re-structure that destroyed the contracts with the bond holders and dealerships).

    We watched as they destroyed the Auto dealers and said I am not an auto dealer... we watched as they controlled the income levels of corporate workers and said i do not work for the corporation... and when they came to Take away my right to contract for my pIy there was no one left to fight for me.

    2:55am • #104
    1 Featured Post

    Everyone here is misinformed about their own government. Understand how the federal reserve was created and you see it is doing what it was designed to do, regardless who is in the whitehouse. This is not the first bail out and it won't be the last. The fact is that the federal reserve was created by the super rich as a cartel.

    The real solution is to abolish the federal reserve!

    3:22am • #105
    1 Featured Post Outside Blog

    Tim -  Ready to stop tax deductions for home interest are you?  I'm not. 

    The tax credit is not some sweetheart deal for a select few.  It is an economic incentive to act in a way that helps the public interest - in this case bringing an end to this recession - in real estate  - and the rest of the economy - of the whole world.

    I wonder if you think public works spending in a recession is a bad idea, too.  If so, you are in a distinct minority.

    4:10am • #106
    838,393 Points 213 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog Hit Router

    The collapse of the housing industry is, IMO, the result of the corruption of the regulators, law makers and Wall Street.

    4:38am • #107
    4 Featured Posts

    Nice Post...

    It's hard to believe that people can't understand one of the primary purposes of the Consitution is for our local Governments to have more importance then the Federal Government when it comes to our day to day lives. A federal program that might be good for the mob in New York.. is not neccessarily good for the mob in Nevada... LOL!

    When particular special interest groups are running the country... it's impossible for it to be good for everybody.

    9:22am • #108
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    #17 Monica Hess,  Of course they can't teach that stuff in government schools. That would be like teaching anti-Christian stuff in a Catholic school.  When you begin to do some independent history research, you find how little was taught in school.  The problem is that people don't learn the lessons of history and we repeat the same mistakes.

    #18 Weichert,  I hope those stats are correct but I doubt it very much.  I think there will be big losses when it is all totalled up.

    #19 Dan Hartman,  I'm guilty but it's we can always change our advice.

    #20 Holi, some very good advice is many times very simple.  For example, The Golden Rule is simple but it's hard to go wrong by living by it.  Government intervention always has unintended consequences that usually lead to more problems. 

    9:47am • #109
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    #21 Ark,  thanks for your comment.  If they don't listen to us, then let's kick them out.  The biggest problem though is making sure the votes will be counted correctly.  I really don't have any confidence that all of these electronic voting machines can be trusted. But that is another story.

    #22 Reality,  It is very difficult trying to find out what is fact and what is BS.  But your technique of making people feel foolish for asking certain questions does not help in the search for truth.  I don't like to discard any questions just because I might not like where it all leads.  I like to dig around and try to find as much information as possible and then I can form an opinion based on that.  You bring up Obama's birth certificate.  Have you looked into the details as to why some have questions?  I did.  Here is a post with links to what I've found. I'm sure you will dismiss any of the sources but it looks to me that their is a reasonable doubt.  When it can all be cleared up by Obama releasing his records, it makes a reasonable person wonder why he won't.

    I thought the 911 truthers were a bunch of nuts and never bothered to look into their views.  But I decided to dig into it a little to prove to myself that they were just nuts.  The more I dug into it, the more questions I developed.  I still have an open mind on it.  I really hate to think that it could be any kind of inside job but I just can't help thinking about this video about the BBC reporting the collapse of WTC7 20 minutes before it actually happened.  The reporter is telling us how the building collapsed when it is actually still right there in back of her in the background.  Is that a fake video? I'd really like to know more about that.

    Watch this video about the head investigator being asked about the pools of molten metal that eyewitnesses saw first hand in the basement of the WTC collapse. He denies that there was any molten metal when multiple souces have shown that it was indeed there.  Like I said, I don't want to beleive that there would be such evil in this world but when there are loose ends that don't fit into the official story line, I think it's important to keep asking the questions.   I'd rather know the truth even though it might make me go crazy than to live in a fantasy land of make believe. 

    10:33am • #110
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    #23 Real Reality,  I'm not certain what sources of information that Reality is using.  It seems like he automatically eliminates much.

    #24 Scott Miller.  I recall that there was a recent feature talking about Atlas Shrugged.  It seemed like many have read it.  It's one of my all time favorites.  I pulled it out a few weeks ago and am reading it again.

    #25 Reality,  I'm not sure what facts you are asking for. 

    #26 Bill, I agree that we are in a big mess.  Unfortunately, I think that what has been done is only making it worse.

    2:54pm • #111
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    #27 BASILOVECCHIO,  I read through your comment once.  I'd have to study it much more to figure out exactly what you are proposing.  It sounds good on the surface but it sounds like it will set it all up so that the taxpayer will be the one holding the entire bag.  But I'll look at it again to try to better understand it.

    #28 Joan,  Greenspan seemed to be very Libertarian back in the 60s but when he got power it seems to me that he got captured by the powerful financial people.  He became their puppet to set things up more to their advantage.  Lately Greenspan has been trying to save his legacy and trying to spin his failures.

    3:13pm • #112
    399,370 Points 15 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    @ Mark (#92):  Yikes... Alan Keyes... a "patriot ?"  Whew !  That man is about as close to being totally nutz as any candidate I have ever heard.  Whoa, there !  But, then again, he fits right in there with all the rest of the wing-nuts who would love to see this country turn into a Christian-Taliban version of an Iranian Theocracy.  Wow !

    3:17pm • #113
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    Karen Anne Stone,  I have to agree with you about Alan Keyes.  I really tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but his Christian fanatiscism it too much for me.  But then I guess everyone has their good parts and bad parts.

    3:26pm • #114
    SEP
    26

    Karen, the man spent time in jail on peaceful protest.  He defends life, not so fanatical.  Without the right to life then what do we have?  I am nut case for life as I am living.  I do not have life I do not have anything else.  Religion is not a bad thing but then again if we talk here about going back to the Founders, 80% of those present in the first convention where religious fanatical nuts by today's standards as they where seminarians.  You assertion of a Theocracy is absurd as the Founding of this country is Christian based.  It is in the Christian basis of it that allowed the tolerance to have us get here.  The problem is that tolerance has been turned on its head to include tolerating immorallity.  Yes there are some wing nuts but if you listen to Keyes on message and not delivery you would know he is not with many of the wing nuts he is for a push to morality.  He is not for a Theocracy and neither were the Founders.  However they insisted on Christian principles guiding this country.  Principles like thou shall not kill, steal, covet, bear false witness, adultry.  Not so fanatical.  If these were followed contracts would be worth the paper written on, legislation would not take from the industrious and give to the lazy.  Life would be repescted as would property.

    8:32am • #115
    197,707 Points 2 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    "The best way to start to change things is to vote out every Congressperson who voted for any bailouts" - so when are YOU going to start?  I know I have.

    I live in Chicago so you can't tell me about mob mentality, Daley mentality, O'Bama mentality - it's all the same - hit them over the head politics that is so special here.  Some of you are just finding out what a swell guy O'Bama really is, just wait what you'll find out with another year in office. 

    I think it's a great idea to get back to what the Constitution actually says.

    Berney Frank is a crook that should be jailed for his part done with Fannie & Freddie.

    11:29am • #116
    163,964 Points 10 Featured Posts Localism Sponsor Outside Blog

    Guys!

    The constitution was designed to evolve.  It was written with a lot of wiggle room in it for a REASON!!!.

    2:07pm • #117

    #117 The Constitution has done more than evolve, it has been taken hostage and disregarded.  The first ten amendments, "Bill of Rights," limited the governments power.  The precedent was set that the Constitution was for limiting government involvement.  It is a treaty among soveriegns.  We are the soveriegns and the elected officials are the agents who are suppose to guard our soveriegn rights.  An honest look at the direction of this evolution has been to take away our rights and relagate us to servants and not soveriegns.   We have been disregarded by the very people we elected to safeguard our lives and liberties, they have gathered unto themselves power.  We are now a laughing stock to the British people to which we broke from as we now have it worse than our fore fathers udner British control.

    We can not vote them out, the process is too long and the good people are not applying to fight against the corruption.  The election laws favor the encumbents as they have voted themselves protection against competition.  We need to evict them.  I am not advocating a violent overthrow of government, let us keep the government, let us evict the current occupants of the halls of government and then let the new candidates arise and demonstrate their qualifications.  This will take  a united effort of the majority of citizens who have suffered too long. 

    It was written with the ability to be amended but those who engineered it also warned us not to tamper too carelessly.  It had not have wriggle room for a long time until this past century when public education has failed those who think it is a living breathing document.  Furthermore the "Declaration of Indepedence" has more relevance than "The Constitution" as it is the Founding document and thus "The Constitution" must be reconciled against the "Declaration of Independence."   The Founders warned us about going in the direction we are in and the elitists have viewed the warning and hid the knowledge of what it is we had and took it from us through this so called evolution.

    4:40pm • #118
    215,067 Points 34 Featured Posts Outside Blog

    #117 Ruthmarie Hicks,  The only evolving the Constitution should be doing is by amendments, not re-interrpretation.  The Constitution is very specific with the powers that are delegated to the Federal government.  This notion of a living and breathing and changing Constitution is what got us off the right track. That's the problem with incrementalism.  None of the little changes by themselves seems like a big deal but before you know it, the Constitution turns into a whole different creature. 

    5:02pm • #119
    SEP
    27

    Wow, all interesting comments. The only thing I can say is that we had a surplus, then a deficit and then a near collapse of our financial institutions. The $8K tax break is not something new, it was done in the 70's, but it was a $2,000 incentive to purchase. All I can say is that in a short period of time we have managed to start stabilizing the economy. Will their be repercussion's for what we are doing now? I don't know, I can not predict the future, but it sure beats where we where 7-8 months ago. I love all the comments by people on the board, but no one has any solutions to the problem.

    7:07am • #120
    OCT
    20
    Outside Blog

    I read all the comments about the corruption of the Constitution, the banking industry excesses, the corporate dishonesty and the disregard of the ordinary citizen by government, and I am reminded of the political campaigns of the 90's -- the 1890's to be exact.

    The rhetoric, the alarms, the promises and the hand wringing are almost exactly the same. The claims being made now by the experts and the politicians were being made using virtually the exact same language back then.

    What's my point? Well, I think that we survived the nonsense and incompetance back then and we will survive it all again now. Somehow. All the vitriol I hear directed at those who find themselves in difficulty these days will not help solve our problems.  So ease up and let it all sort itself out.

    "This is a great time to buy a house!"

    Akron, Ohio

    9:38pm • #121

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