“We Do Not See Ourselves As A Christian Nation”---Pandering Or A Proclamation?

By
Mortgage and Lending with Greenville, NC

I must admit that when I first learned President Obama stated the “we do not see ourselves as a Christian nation” I was quite distressed. Why would he say this during Holy Week while in a predominately Muslim nation?

 

 

I kept asking myself, what was the point? The two conclusions my feeble mind deduced is he is either pandering or he is making a proclamation.

 

Pandering

 

Was he just pandering to the Muslims, Agnostics, Atheists, secularists, etc? This is certainly possible. He spent most of the week in Europe pandering by apologizing for American arrogance. His perception not mine!

 

If this was the case, again what was the point? Are the militant Muslims going to like us better? Are the radical atheists and secularists going to exhibit less vitriol towards Christianity?

 

The President is more naïve than even I think he is, if he believes making this statement will help us to all just get along.

 

Why would he feel the need to downplay his nation’s historical roots? This is a nation that was settled by those seeking religious freedom. And yes, almost all of those early settlers seeking religious freedom were some form of Christian sect.

 

Religious freedom is, or at least has been constitutionally protected in the United States! Although Christians in America are being increasingly tread upon.

 

We need not look to far and wide in many Muslim countries to understand there is an extreme lack of religious freedom and tolerance. In many of these countries they will persecute and perhaps kill you if you are another faith. Muslim sects will kill each other over their beliefs.

 

I know you secularists and atheists are jumping up and down saying centuries ago Christians have persecuted and killed non-believers and those of varying Christian sects. There is no denying that historical fact. But it has not been the case in the United States of America!

 

If President Obama was pandering what did he hope to accomplish? Share with me your thoughts.

 

Proclamation

 

My other thought is Obama was making a Presidential Proclamation. Declaring to all the world that the United States was not a Christian nation. This has no historical basis, and would serve as a departure.

 

Albeit, it is a departure that has been building for the past couple of generations. It reminds me of the Emancipation Proclamation. This nation struggled with the scourge of slavery for two or three generations. President Lincoln finally ended slavery with his proclamation.

 

President Lincoln’s proclamation was just and long overdue. If President Obama statement was a proclamation I feel tread upon!

 

I know, I know you secularist and atheists out there are again jumping up and down out there. You are screaming how it is just not true that most of the founding fathers were not Christians. But this is simply not true!

 

Let’s just lift a few quotes, as a representative sampling, from those that are considered deists or secularists:

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

Benjamin Franklin:
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay,

 

Thomas Jefferson:

“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

James Madison:

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]`

Excerpt from Supreme Court Ruling Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 143 U.S. 457 (1892)

“But, beyond all these matters, no purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people. This is historically true.”

For those you that still doubt Christianity in America let me invite you to this site from the Library of Congress. Click Here.

If this was a Presidential Proclamation then I reject it. I will not be tread upon. It’s time for the Christian community to rise up and not take it any more. What do you think?

 

 

Happy Easter, from a citizen that does consider this a Christian nation.

 

Jay Williams

 

close

This entry hasn't been re-blogged:

Re-Blogged By Re-Blogged At
Topic:
ActiveRain Community
Groups:
North Carolina Real Estate
Christianity and Real Estate
Christian Mortgage and Real Estate Professionals
Silent Majority
Blatant Politics
Tags:
politics
religion
greenville nc
pitt county nc
chrisitan nation

Post a Comment
Spam prevention
Spam prevention
Show All Comments
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Jason, I don't think it is a stretch for Obama. It seems every week that goes by I find myself shaking my head and thinking I never thought I would live to see this.

Jay

Apr 11, 2009 03:26 PM #30
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Mike, I'm not convinced as to what Jefferson was. I do understand that the Sunday after his infamous letter where he penned "separation of church and state" he attended church services that were held at the Capital. In fact he regularly attended church at the Capital during his Presidency. It just doesn't add up to me.

Jay

Apr 11, 2009 03:32 PM #31
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Terry,why is it important to you that we not be considered Christian. Again even Newsweek, this week stated that 75% of the population identify themselves as Christian. That's 3 out of 4, sounds pretty Christian to me.

I am insulted that Obama would even bring it up. That he would bring it up in a Muslim nation. Yes, I call Turkey a Muslim nation because the population is predominately Islamic. I'm further insulted that the timing of this was during Holy Week.

Was he pandering or proclaiming. Or can you advance another theory?

Jay

Apr 11, 2009 03:39 PM #32
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Hugh, discussion of either politics or religion raise people's passion. I getting the reaction I expected.

Thanks. Enjoy your Easter Sunday.

Jay

Apr 11, 2009 03:41 PM #33
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Mike, I think the digging deeper is exactly what needs to be done. The secular revisionists are taking one passage and labeling a founder as X. But upon closer inspection you find an overwhelming number of writings going the exact opposite way.

The problem is the secularists control education and the media and they shape what people believe.

If we want the truth we must did it out ourselves.

Happy Easter

Jay

Apr 12, 2009 12:05 AM #34
Rainer
302,425
Terry Haugen STAGE it RIGHT! 321-956-2495
Stage it Right! - Melbourne, FL

Jay, I can't believe you're asking me that question?  If you weren't would you want to be considered a christian?  Its insulting to other religions to lump them in with the christian population.  Please answer my question, WHY is it so important to you that we be considered a christian nation?  Because you are a christian and thats the way YOU want it? I would say of the Newsweek poll, if someone is not affiliated with one of those other "scary" religions, but also one is not really a practicing christian, then one would probably answer the poll saying they are christian.  Actually I saw another poll last week that had those number substantially lower.  I'm sorry Obama "insulted" you when he spoke the truth.  If this planet is ever going to get along, we must all recognize the diverse differences.  His statement about this country not being christian was accurate.  We are not, unless of course you would prefer we outlaw all other religions.

Apr 12, 2009 12:48 AM #35
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Terry, I asked you that question because I wanted to surface the answer you gave. You are not a Christian and you resent those of us who are.

In this country today we want to talk about tolerance, we are so afraid to offend, and we are conscious not to denigrate every group but one.

It is open season on Christians. Lack of tolerance OK. Offend them that is fine. Go ahead and denegrate them for their beliefs. Push them out of public life and restrict their ability to speak why not.

I could go on and on. I for one to not intend to take it any more. I will fight, with words, the secular revisionists.

And like it or not we are the majority.

Jay

Apr 12, 2009 01:10 AM #36
Rainer
302,425
Terry Haugen STAGE it RIGHT! 321-956-2495
Stage it Right! - Melbourne, FL

Excuse me Jay, your insulting comments about my religious convictions are one of the reasons this country is having heated discussions right now.  How dare you belittle my belief system?  In fact at no time did I indicate to you what i believe or don't believe other than people do not have the right to force their belief system on others!  However, apparently because I disagree with you about making this country christian, I must be a heathen.  Honestly Jay, you're telling me I'm intolerant against christians, when you in fact are having a problem with "your" religion not being recognized as the religion of state.  My tolerance far exceeds yours because I am willing to allow all people of all faiths to worship as they please, as the founding fathers intended, without having to do so under a waving christian flag. 

It is open season on Christians. Lack of tolerance OK. Offend them that is fine. Go ahead and denegrate them for their beliefs. Push them out of public life and restrict their ability to speak why not.  How can you say that with a straight face?  It seems to me, Moslems are the ones who had to go into hiding after 9/11.  Seems to me Moslems are the ones who have been shunned and ridiculed.  Seems to me there is still hatred toward the Jews in this country.  If there is a backlash against christians its probably because we are all getting tired of hearing your spin on what we should believe and how we should worship.  Please Jay, you've always seemed to be a reasonable person, answer my question WHY is it so important to you that we be a christian nation?  I would imagine were you a Jew that question would be moot.

Apr 12, 2009 02:06 AM #37
Rainmaker
1,043,271
Rob Arnold
Sand Dollar Realty Group, Inc. - Altamonte Springs, FL
Metro Orlando Full Service - Investor Friendly & F

This is no surprise.  Obama showed us some of his true colors before he got elected.  Buddying up with Reverend Wright.  America is getting what it deserves for putting a left-wing radical into the White House.

Apr 12, 2009 03:20 AM #38
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Terry, I've answered the question. You are substantiating that answer.

Jay

Apr 12, 2009 11:14 AM #39
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Rob, I agree. It was readily apparent he was hard left.

Apr 12, 2009 10:57 PM #41
Rainmaker
599,985
Mitchell J Hall
Compass - Manhattan, NY
Lic Associate RE Broker - Manhattan & Brooklyn

Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ones.

In 1797 our government concluded a "Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, or Barbary," now known simply as the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 of the treaty contains these words:

As the Government of the United States...is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity of Musselmen--and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

This document was endorsed by Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and President John Adams. It was then sent to the Senate for ratification; the vote was unanimous. It is worth pointing out that although this was the 339th time a recorded vote had been required by the Senate, it was only the third unanimous vote in the Senate's history. There is no record of debate or dissent. The text of the treaty was printed in full in the Philadelphia Gazette and in two New York papers, but there were no screams of outrage, as one might expect today.

Apr 13, 2009 02:38 AM #42
Rainer
302,425
Terry Haugen STAGE it RIGHT! 321-956-2495
Stage it Right! - Melbourne, FL
Jay, did you delete my last comment here? The one where I asked you if you were other than christian would you be wanting this country to be called christian? Mitchell, good research!
Apr 13, 2009 02:32 PM #43
Rainmaker
205,952
Alice Linahan
Voices Empower - Argyle, TX

We are a country that is of many faiths and many traditions and we are able to live as we do because of our Great Constitution which Obama and Liberals in power are trying to throw out the window.

As One Angry Man.com states

Barack Obama's legacy will be that he shocked a sleeping Nation awake and they realized they could no longer let their government run on auto-pilot. 

You are going to love this video. Steve Harvey Introduces Jesus!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvCd_ANIKys&feature=player_embedded

 Put your hands in the air and your feet in the street Christian Americans. A good place to start is the upcoming Tea parties going on around the Country on April 15th. 

Americans are waking up!

Apr 13, 2009 05:02 PM #44
Rainmaker
87,184
Israel Barden
RE/MAX Big Bear Village - Big Bear Lake, CA

Americans are waking up? If you mean they were asleep during the last eight years, I'll go along with you.

Apr 14, 2009 03:37 AM #45
Rainmaker
205,952
Alice Linahan
Voices Empower - Argyle, TX

Great article on this very subject!! A Culture of Faith is Necessary to a Free Society By Sen. Sam Brownback http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46441

Apr 14, 2009 03:37 AM #46
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Alice, I enjoyed the video and the article by Sam Brownback. Thank you.

Jay

Apr 18, 2009 12:57 AM #47
Rainmaker
211,946
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group
Jay, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. In this case, the art of diplomacy we've not engaged in for so many years is taken as an affront to Christianity by some. Not surprising, considering we are so out of practice.
Apr 18, 2009 03:55 PM #48
Rainer
29,656
Jay Williams
Greenville, NC - Greenville, NC
Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan

Inna, so if I get your comment this is just diplomatic speak. OK, accepting that, then it would be targeted to "normal" Muslims. It will not have any effect on radical Islam. To the extent this helps the day to day Muslim to help root out the radicals OK. Time will tell.

I do question additional actions this week. He goes to Georgetown Univ, a Jesuit school, to deliver a speech. Then asks them to cover a Christian symbol. Which they do. Why go there if he is not comfortable with their heritage. Coincidence or pattern.

Jay

Apr 18, 2009 11:59 PM #49
Rainmaker
211,946
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

Jay - I was simply saying that each percieves things said by others through the many filters they acquired over the years.  Cigar is just a cigar, but no one is capable of truly seeing it as such.  It's a philosophical impossibility to not read into stuff, hence any argument for objectivity is inherently wrong.  Of course the degrees of our predispositions towards seeing things our way vary from person to person, and group to group.  At the end of the day, the ones fartherst removed from center (as you'd call 'normal') turn into extremists.  My not so humble and not in the least objective opinion, of course.

Apr 21, 2009 08:45 AM #50
Post a Comment
Spam prevention
Show All Comments

What's the reason you're reporting this blog entry?

Are you sure you want to report this blog entry as spam?

Rainer
29,656

Jay Williams

Mortgage Loan Officer - Getting You The Right Loan
Ask me a question
*
*
*
*
Spam prevention

Additional Information