Sorry for the "in your face" graphic above...but it sorta "sets the stage" for this particular blog entry. As some of you are aware from reading my recent blog about overpriced listings, I'm one of those who thinks a little "left of center." It's an occupational hazard, I guess....or perhaps just a personality flaw. LOL!
Nonetheless, it served me quite well when I sold real estate...and I used many ideas that were definitely different from what "everyone else" seemed to be doing at the time. I hated being like everyone else, sounding like everyone else, looking like everyone else and earning like everyone else! I know it's the rebel in me, and you'd think that by age 51, I'd have figured out a way to tame it somehow. But...nope, it's still there.
This is a long read...but I think you'll find it to be worth it on some level. I hope so anyways!
Working Expired Listings
Early in my career, I was told that working expireds was one way of potentially generating new listings. All of the components were there. It was easy to identify the prospects (MLS), it was easy to know what they'd listed at (MLS)...and it might be easy to figure out what went wrong....and swoop in to become their new savings grace. The answer to their woes...and prayers.
So...each morning for several weeks, I'd search for "Expireds" in the MLS. With coffee cup in hand, I'd begin calling each one in hopes of saying the right things to get an appointment.
"Hi, Mr. Johnson?? My name is Dave Daniels...and I'm a real estate agent with XYZ Realty. I'd like to..."
:: click ::
Hello??? Hello??? Is anyone there?? Hmmm, we must have gotten disconnected somehow. :: eyes rolling ::
Next call.
Hi, Mrs. Smith? My name is Dave Daniels...and I'm...
ARE YOU A REALTOR???
Why yes, I certainly am...and the reason I'm calling is...
WELL, I WISH ALL OF YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP BOTHERING US!! :: click ::
:: take sip of coffee...loosen tie...and attempt to uncross eyes ::
Next call.
Hi, Mr. Peterson? My name is Dave Daniels...and I'm a real estate agent with XYZ Realty.
YEAH DAVE, WHAT CAN I HELP YOU WITH?
:: shocked...somewhat taken off-guard...sitting up straighter ::
Well...I'm actually calling because I think there might be something I can help YOU with! My records indicate that your home is no longer listed for sale?
YEAH, WE DECIDED NOT TO SELL UNTIL THE MARKET TURNS AROUND.
Oh, I completely understand. Was that because you were expecting to net more from your sale than you would have with the previous company?
YEAH, THE OTHER AGENT KEPT WANTING US TO REDUCE OUR PRICE MORE AND MORE....AND WE GOT FED UP. DECIDED THAT WE'RE HAPPY HERE AFTERALL AND THAT NOW'S JUST NOT THE RIGHT TIME TO SELL. MY JOB TRANSFER TO INDIANA ALSO FELL THROUGH AND MY MOTHER-IN-LAW IS ILL, SO WE DECIDED TO STAY WHERE WE ARE BECAUSE IT'S CLOSE TO HER...AND SINCE MY JOB TRANSFER ISN'T HAPPENING NOW, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE TO SELL ANYWAY.
Oh, I see....well....um....the point is that....the...uhhhh....
:: blank stare ::
:: thinking to self now....I should've gotten a job at the county! ::
ROFL!
You could stay on the phone til you're blue in the face...and maybe even get an appointment. Heck, there are several ways you can even go with the situation above. Try to convince them to buy a bigger house and have mom move in with them, blah, blah, blah. But don't you HATE those kinds of selling situations? They feel a little cheesey, don't they??
SOLUTION
After thinking about it for a while...and realizing that I hated making those phone calls, or finding out that 65 agents had already beaten me to the punch, or WHATEVER...I decided there HAD to be a better way!
But what was it??
The "what ifs" started filling my mind.
What if I didn't have to compete with every other agent who was calling them the moment it expired?? What if I didn't have to get hung up on?? What if, instead of me going to them...they came to me???
(I liked the sound of all of the above!!)
So I came up with an idea. Some of you will think it's just a tad bit on the "dastardly" side, but I didn't. I thought it was very professional, definitely different, and a much softer sell than manning the phones three days a week with the resulting scenarios outlined above. It was also more "time effective" for me in the long run...and the clients came to me somewhat "pre-sold" all by themselves.
THE MARKETING TECHNIQUE EXPLAINED
I deduced from experience that most listings were taken for a period of six months. The problem was, our MLS didn't show the expiration date of the contract, only the START date of the listing. Sure...once it expired, you could easily find THAT information, but what if you wanted to initiate SOME sort of contact prior to the expiration??
Well...the math was easy. If most listings are taken for six months....then all I have to do is search for listings from 5-1/2 months ago. That way, I could get a fair idea of what properties might be expiring in the next couple of weeks. Simple.
I'd then tour those properties, and leave a bookmark thanking the sellers for allowing me to preview their home. That's all. Nothing more....nothing less. The bookmark would have my branding on it, my contact info on it, and examples of my professional marketing on the back (just like Jeff and Lisette's above). It was printed in full color on thick cardstock with a high-gloss finish, which ensured it would stand apart from any other "ho-hum" business cards which might also be left on the kitchen counter.
If you want to scroll back up to the top of this blog to see an example, I'll wait. :P
That was it. My job was done.
Somehow in the sellers' eyes....I already looked different than other agents. I also had a nice sentiment by my thanking them, and I illustrated the kind of marketing I ALWAYS did on the back of the bookmark. Like it or not, most sellers are totally dissatisfied with the kind of marketing their agents do. Cheap inkjet printed flyers, no Just Listed's, no private website dedicated to their property alone. They feel that's the reason the house didn't sell, and all the while their agent is simply telling them to reduce the price, reduce the price, reduce the price.
Yes, sometimes that's necessary...but that's off-topic. I'm only reiterating the reasons many SELLERS believe their property did not...(or is not)...selling.
HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED
After 5-1/2 months and no sale, the sellers were usually already frustrated...and counting the days until the listing expires with their current agent. I often would get phone calls from them stating their unhappiness with the current agent...and could I help them? I know...I know....delicate situation. Some will view my leaving the bookmark as an active solicitation of their customer. We even had it brought to the board once. They lost. It wasn't a solicitation at all. It was a representation of a more professional Realtor who thanked them for allowing the agent to preview their home, that's all. I did not ask them to call, I made no promises whatsoever, I didn't "sell" them anything.
But if what they saw on my bookmark convinced them that I might ought to be their next agent (it did), then I'd wind up with the phone call prior to their contract expiring. For the naysayers, let me reassure you that NEVER did I EVER meet with them prior to the expiration!!! BUT...I would confirm the expiration date with them, and offer to schedule an appointment for the day after. I'd also tell them that our appointment would come in handy because many, many agents would likely be calling them the moment their listing shows up as "Expired" in the MLS, and they could simply tell those agents they already had a scheduled meeting with another agent.
I'd get the listing almost every time. The ones who were ridiculusly overpriced...I wished them well. The ones who were marginally overpriced, I used the technique discussed in the blog referenced above. The ones who's job transfers fell through, or had a mother-in-law who was ill??? I never got calls from them.
CLOSING COMMENT
It seems like we sometimes have a tendency to make this job more difficult than it really is. We put ourselves in situations that can be downright uncomfortable...or even demeaning. And it seems like our corporate trainers will STILL tell us to "call expireds" instead of just using common sense and a slightly different approach.
By the way...the cost to print 1,000 of those bookmarks??? $99.00
Happy selling!!!
Dave
www.FlyersToYou.com/samples <---see more examples of stuff here
www.FTYDomains.com <---register your real estate domains here for $9.99/yr.
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Keller Williams Hudson Valley Realty - Tappan, NY
Lic. Associate Broker, ABR, GREEN
David, that is very interesting. I would like to give it a try as I have been through the other scenario oh so well.
Apr 30, 2009 09:42 PM
Cutler Real Estate - Canton, OH
REALTOR - Canton Ohio Real Estate
In our area most agents would consider this as a solicitation. I would think an agent might check with their manager and attorney before doing what is recommended. Maybe it is not illegal, but it seems pretty unethical,as the intent and purpose is admittedly already there.
Apr 30, 2009 10:30 PM
RE/MAX Centre Realtors - Warwick, PA
REALTOR,ABR,CRS,SRES,GRI - Bucks County & Philadel
I feel the same way as Jim does. I feel it is solicitation. It is illegal in Pa.
Apr 30, 2009 10:41 PM
Hickory, NC
Loved your overpriced listings article. Not so much here. I feel for Jeff and Lisette in their market, because if they're sending that card out to currently listed homes, it's a clear violation of the COE and probably their local MLS board rules too (as I've yet to see one that doesn't forbid the solicition of listings by other members).
Times may be tough, but it's still important to play by the rules.
Apr 30, 2009 11:35 PM
Woodbridge, VA
Your Commercial Real Estate Link to Northern VA
David, I don't see how this cannot be viewed as a solicitation as long as the property is currently listed.
May 01, 2009 12:30 AM
Owner of FlyersToYou, Inc. and former Top Realtor - Hemet, CA
Hi everyone!
Thank you for your comments! As always, much appreciated (even when in disagreement).
I knew this would ruffle some feathers and there'd be concern about Code of Ethics violations...which is why I used "not for the faint of heart" in my title.
By the way, the piece itself is not an ethics violation...and the only person who ever challenged it with our MLS....lost.
Why??
Because take another look at the bookmark in the graphic at the top of the page. There is absolutely NOTHING that can be construed as a solicitation or an ethics violation. Heck, I've seen business cards left at properties that were more in violation than these. A business card from a Realtor stating that they "specialize in assisting sellers whose listings have expired" would be a greater violation (under the circumstances) because it absolutely could be deemed a direct solicitation.
"Call Bob, The Expired Listing Specialist" as a slogan on a business card would also be more of a solicitation, yet everyone's okay with agents leaving business cards after previewing. It's an accepted practice. We're used to it. But a bookmark??? Yikes. We're not used to that. By the way, it is NOT a brochure espousing your talents, experience and success as a Realtor that you're leaving behind. It's a thank you to the seller for allowing you to preview their home! If you think that scribbling "Nice home...good luck with your sale" is okay to write on the back of your card after previewing, then you should have no problem with this at all.
Thanking a seller for allowing you to preview their home is, in and of itself, just a nice sentiment. No more...no less.
The fact that an agent shows images of their typical marketing materials on the back is not a violation either. It's smart marketing, and we recommend that our customers include those images on EVERYTHING, from business cards, to postcards, to websites, etc. It doesn't state "We'll market your property better than the last guy". It simply shows examples of the kind of marketing they actually do.
If the SELLER views those images as being nicer or potentially more effective than the marketing (or lack of) from their existing agent....that cannot be helped. But it does not qualify as a solicitation. What bothers most agents is that those images usually ARE nicer than what they use...and they don't like that.
Here's what I find so incredibly interesting.
Agents will regularly send postcards or newsletters to their farm without first cleaning up their mailing list to exclude actively listed properties. Oh...they know there ARE active listings in their farm, but they contend no ethics violation because of the small clause that reads "This is not intended as a solicitation if your home is currently listed by another broker."
I find that laughable, yet virtually everyone markets in this manner.
They can state whatever they want on that postcard. Talk all about how they're the best listing agent in the world. That none of their listings ever expire. That they'll list a home at only 5%...blah, blah. BUT, they'll never consider THAT as an ethics violation as long as the disclaimer is intact???
What a crock.
Still...MOST agents will read this blog and feel nervous about leaving a bookmark that simply says "Thank you for allowing us to preview your home". I think what actually bothers most agents is not the piece itself....but the motivation behind its use.
The previewing of the home...and the leaving of the bookmark...is indeed designed to stimulate interest from the seller if they choose not to renew the listing with their current agent. That's unpalatable to many. But it's no different than sending postcards out to your entire farm. Or calendars. Or doorhangers. Or whatever.
Standard real estate practice everywhere seems to be okay with agents logging into the MLS to see what properties expired this morning. They're NOT using the MLS for its intended use, but rather to gain information about those who obviously have an interest in selling their home. The MLS has become a prospecting tool, and everyone's fine with that....and even promotes it heavily in training.
THAT may be more of an ethics violation, or MLS violation, but let's not go there. It's been in practice and unchallenged for too long, so we'll leave it alone.
I've also never seen anyone is my 30 years of being in real estate, EVER clean their mailing lists so as NOT to include active listings in their direct marketing efforts. And that's okay in our industry too. And promoted by the largest real estate companies and trainers in the industry. As long as you have the "This is not intended..." disclaimer in 5 pt. type.
But leave a bookmark that says "Thank you for allowing us to view your home" at some point prior to the listing expiration date...and people will deem it an ethics violation. By the way, I used the bookmarks WHENEVER I previewed a home, whether it was expiring or not. I left it instead of my standard business card...and funny thing is...I never once got a call from an agent accusing me of trying to solicit their business...(unless and until) their listing was just ready to expire.
In any event...marketing can indeed be controversial...and I appreciate all of the comments above. My only caveat would be that posters take a copy of the bookmark to their broker or board, show it to them and ask if it's an ethics violation. The answer will be no, so I just want to be careful with statements as to the legality of the issue if it's just one's perception.
If the use of these as a calling card when previewing a home is offensive, I'd only ask that you ask yourself why? And if using the MLS to determine what sellers may be in need of your services is distasteful, stop searching for expireds in the first place. Lastly, if in doubt, add the "This is not intended to be...." clause to the bookmark. That way...you're covered completely.
Thank you for your comments. This oughtta be a fun one to watch!!
Dave
May 01, 2009 05:05 AM
Hickory, NC
Dave, you're right. It ought to be fun to watch, indeed. First, I think that mass mailings, etc. is directly handled in the COE and MLS board rules, so that's not the issue at hand. Second, you're image has the "call on the day it expires...or set the stage a little sooner" comment it on. This is clearly a violation. I think that would be the case even in an attempt to "mass mail" it out as it is direclty targeting currently listed homes.
That said, I reviewed the image again and see where the actual "bookmark" portion of the image is, and no, there is nothing there that is an issue (in my humble opinion). I like the idea of a bookmark biz card for this purpose.
So, assuming that you're not advertising the above slogan, I rescind my previous comment and say it's a great idea after all. :-)
May 01, 2009 07:11 AM
Owner of FlyersToYou, Inc. and former Top Realtor - Hemet, CA
Roger,
The best part of these kinds of discussions is the interaction and sharing of beliefs, experiences, knowledge and creativity.
My "setting the stage a little sooner" shouldn't be read as a direct and blatant attempt to steal someone else's listing. It's not. I was never interested in stealing an active listing from a fellow agent. They were people I needed in the overall scheme of things in order for my business to be successful. Heck, they were the same people who sold my listings....or had listings my buyers were interested in!!
I guess if they thought my bookmark was actually planting a seed in the sellers' minds, they'd have reacted differently. However, more often than not...when the listing agent saw it, they thought it was a wonderful card to leave at homes after touring, or previewing...and they asked me where I got them.
The reality of what I learned in the process is where it becomes "questionable". I didn't originally use the bookmarks to work expireds. I simply used them as my "leave-behind" whenever previewing homes. I wanted to stand out from the 25 other business cards left on the kitchen counter.
BUT...
I soon learned that sellers actually responded to the bookmark. They would often contact me for advice and questions which I couldn't answer, as they were still under contract. But I'd invite them to call me if/when their current listing expired...and they did.
Somehow that evolved into the "Working Expireds" marketing solution outlined above. I no longer just used them when randomly showing property, but rather I sought out those properties in my area that I felt might be expiring soon. I'd tour the property...and leave a bookmark.
If it ever motivated the seller to call me...well, great. We could talk if (and only if) their listing wasn't renewed.The only "dastardly" part of the whole thing is that I KNEW they would call. That may be considered an unfair advantage, but it certainly wasn't an ethics violation for all the reasons mentioned above.
I'm glad you came back and reposted! Thanks Roger!
Dave
May 01, 2009 08:34 AM
Samson Properties - Manassas, VA
DMVRealEstateChick
Friends & Neighbors Real Estate - Elkhart, IN
The People You Know, Like and Trust!
Oh Dave, I think you probably step in it quite often don't you? Most people are comfortable with the way they do business and when new ideas, especially creative ideas come along they resent it. Go figure! I like it. Alot!
May 04, 2009 01:34 PM
Owner of FlyersToYou, Inc. and former Top Realtor - Hemet, CA
Dee Dee,
Thank you for the compliment...and you're welcome!!
Evelyn,
LOLOL!!! I'm beginning to think that people set up piles of "you-know-what" just so they can watch me walk up..."test the water"....and then jump in with both feet!!!
Yes...you're right. If we're exposed to too much change in our thought patterns, we rebel a little. And close off sometimes. Or perhaps even draw the wrong conclusions.
I've always been an out of the box thinker...(creative types, go figure!). But it's served me very well in life, except for the times where I worked for a large corporation who only knew one way to do things. Those companies are out of business now! Dont'cha just love that???
:: smirk ::
Dave
May 04, 2009 02:18 PM
Comments(11)