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Democrats and Republicans SUCK!

By
Home Builder with CSR

It is so frustrating debating these days and I often wonder how people keep their cool doing it.

Investment advisers often tell their clients to not get emotional about their investments. For good reason, the emotion clouds judgment and makes it more difficult to  get out of a bad investment. To be a successful investor, one must be able to remain neutral with regards to their investments so that they can see and judge them clearly and without bias.

This is how citizens should act too. Our policies and the politicians who make them are all investments. We hope that they perform, however when they don't , we can fire them.

The problem, now, is that the politicians and parties have turned this into a cult of personality and Obama is the culmination of years of this game.

How can we honestly evaluate and critique our leaders when we cannot see them and their actions clearly?

In this forum, it is common to read canned responses to insightful questions. There are some people in here who would rather bring up past president's mistakes to justify the current president's mistakes. Clearly, these are people more interested in winning an argument than on having an educated discussion with the common goal of fixing our nation's woes. Rather than stopping the bleeding we are all arguing about who made the wound.

I am sure we have all heard the phrase "divide and conquer". That is exactly what the power elite have done. When seen clearly the two parties have both failed us miserably. They basically do the same stuff just with a different rhetoric. We have been divided into two political parties and we have definitely been conquered as a questioning public.

Too many people here are too quick to argue and very slow to debate. Too quick to fight and too slow to reason. Too quick to take a side and too slow to try to eliminate them. Too quick to see differences and too slow to see similarities.

I predict that we will all see the Libertarian party emerge as the biggest benefactor of the Obama presidency. The Republicans have lost many members because of their social platform and their inability, under Bush, to reign in spending and manage immigration. In other words the Republican party has shown their true selves to do whatever they need to to grab power, just like the Democrats. This is the second time in history this has happened. Democrats used to be the conservative party. I digress. The point is that a Republican is a party and not an ideal. Their platform changes because it is not based on any foundation anymore. Democrats are really no different.

Many will leave the two party system and flee to a party thats major belief is to limit the power of government. After the government consistently failing us over many decades and many presidents it is the thinking people who are leaving their parties and going Libertarian.

In the end, I am confident that Obama will prove to be just like the rest. He is already changing his position and revealing that he lied, numerous times, to get the Presidency. Thinking democrats will soon realize that their party, too, has abandoned them, just as Republicans are realizing. Once we realize that our leaders consistently abuse our trust and appeal to our emotions because they can no longer appeal to our brains, we will all ditch this two party, conquer and divide system.

Divest yourselves from the party (or the man) and invest yourselves in the country.

Comments(23)

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David Holzmann
Holzmann & Associates - Mountain View, CA

BTW Chris - Can you fix the title?  They're not sample carts - they're Democrats!  :-)  (Feel free to delete this post when done.)

Jun 03, 2009 12:27 PM
Sandra White
John L Scott Real Estate - Port Townsend, WA
Experienced Residential Resale Broker

Third parties just take away votes, but don't seem to be able to be elected.  It is all about the money issue and how much it costs to run a winning campaign.  I am totally against limiting individuals in how much they can donate as I think that is a freedom of speech issue.    However I think it would really help if citizens would take the time to become informed.  It seems like they are just not paying attention to the issues.  We do not even have civics classes in high school any more do we?  All students hear is what the liberal teachers have to tell them and it seems to become more liberal as they go through college.  I don't see anything that can turn this around.  Very disheartening. 

Jun 03, 2009 12:28 PM
John Secor
EXIT Real Estate Results - Winter Springs, FL

CFE - glad to see you are more enlightened than some of your comments would suggest.  Third parties simply do not have the fund raising ability to compete nationally with the big 2.  If you look at some other government systems, they have several parties where coalition governments are formed.  This sometimes makes for strange bed fellows and often gridlock.  Not sure what the answer is but i do agree with your title.

Jun 03, 2009 01:08 PM
Mark MacKenzie
Phoenix, AZ

CF,

Great post.  I think a lot of people fall into the trap when debating, voting, or otherwise, of becoming "party" people.  I think this can be very dangerous.

Jun 03, 2009 03:21 PM
Alice Linahan
Voices Empower - Argyle, TX

Albert Einstein once said, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

A great Texan said this on Facebook this morning. Americans, "you must" choose wisely in all elections, as if all Americans are counting on your sanity. I say don't complain, if you don't vote for genuine change. Because Americans "you don't just have only two choices as hypnotized" , there truly is a better choice; just put the Flavor Aid down for both America's and your children's futures...

The following link will allow you to read what was first available via The Drudge Report over the weekend. And now, even through Drudge archives, you can't find the original.

Amazing that a Russian in Pravda could write a description of American as it is today.....

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/mishin1.html ; click on this link a must read.....

"But a constitution of government once changed from freedom, can never be restored." John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, July 7, 1775

Jun 04, 2009 05:28 AM
Es r
CSR - Huntington, TX

Many of you mention that third parties have little chance of winning an election because of money. One of you even said that third parties take away votes from the major two.

 

It is this line of thinking that prevents third parties from making it. In the last three elections, I voted for a third party candidate. I knew they would not win and I wasn't even very fond of who was running, but I do believe that we must show our leaders that we have choices other than them. How can you say that a choice between Obama and McCain was a free choice. That is no choice at all. It is like saying you can have thousand island dressing or ranch, but don't you dare look at the oil and vinegar.

As long as you believe that you can only vote for a D or an R than that is all you will ever get. It may take a few election cycles, but if you vote third party, eventually they will win.

You can't change the future in one election, it takes time, patience, and above all else, wisdom. Thanks for all your posts.

Jun 04, 2009 07:05 AM
Mike Saunders
Retired - Athens, GA

Chris - I have voted for third party candidates several times. But, if I feel an election is close, I will vote for the lesser of the two evils of the d or r.

Jun 04, 2009 07:34 AM
Israel Barden
RE/MAX Big Bear Village - Big Bear Lake, CA

Amen. We are almost to the point where we need another revolution to set things right.

Jun 04, 2009 09:53 AM
Kevin Robinson
Twin Falls, ID
Fractional Developer

Israel- Damn. I agree with you again.

Jun 04, 2009 10:16 AM
Michelle Viggiano
Four Winds Healthy Home Carpet & Air Duct Cleaning - Scottsdale, AZ
healthyhomeaz

Christian, I hardly recognized your commentary.  And your first sentence was not much of a tip off.

"It is so frustrating debating these days and I often wonder how people keep their cool doing it."

Evidently one of your last comments is not a "how to":

"Terry, In your last response you seem to bemoan that some people have great health coverage and some only have basic. Are you actually compalining that some have something better than others? Do I have to remind you where we live? What is wrong with me having a better health plan than you. Perhaps I have forgone having a nice car to do it. Perhaps I rent instead of owning, Who the f_ _ _k are you to give me shit about i? Perhaps I work harder than the next person. Why should everyone be equal. We are not. Is it that you want what everyone else has? G_d forbid someone has more. What is wrong with you? Really. In your post you pick on  CEOs of the health ins. companies, as if trimming their pay would do anything. Are you really such a class warfare person? What is your position on capitalism? I am curious. Are for freedom or not? Please answer that."

The beauty of it, she wasn't bemoaning you anything. And nor am I. But I do find your debating style base. By the way, congratulations, you have joined some of the other men here who feel they can always go just a few steps further with a woman here and in their mind's eye still remain quite gallant...

Jun 04, 2009 12:45 PM
Tchaka Owen
Galleria International Realty - Hollywood, FL

Christian - I can't say I agree with all you've written, however I do recognize your 'dissenting' opinion and have featured your post.  Congratulations.

Jun 05, 2009 02:07 AM
Es r
CSR - Huntington, TX

Michelle - What are you talking about? I really can't understand what you are saying, it's all goobledegook. "Go a few steps further, remain gallant"? Seriously, can you explain what you are saying, please.

Tchaka - Thank you

Israel - I agree

 

Jun 05, 2009 04:00 AM
Tchaka Owen
Galleria International Realty - Hollywood, FL

Christian - I believe what Michelle is saying is that some men here might not be aware of the part of the Declaration of Independence that says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal".  Or they misinterpret "men" to mean "males" instead of "people" and thus find empowerment in taking a stricter stance towards women.

 

 

Jun 05, 2009 04:29 PM
Es r
CSR - Huntington, TX

I still don't understand. How have I become a sexist. I am debating with a woman, that's it. I argue. It doesn't matter to me with whom I do it and I, in no way, argued differently with Terry than I would any other person.

I made an argument and now I am being attacked because it was with a woman? I think I am getting it now. What a joke. It seems to me that those on left are almost always the ones to bring race or gender into an argument. I never did and never have.

 

 

Jun 08, 2009 06:40 AM
Michelle Viggiano
Four Winds Healthy Home Carpet & Air Duct Cleaning - Scottsdale, AZ
healthyhomeaz

Christian - What I will say to you humbly and honestly is that I do realize it is all fair game on the printed page here.  Yet in my personal estimation you and a few other men when speaking or referring to particular women widen their comment berth to include degrading and humiliating remarks -  a liberty that I do not see any of you go quite as far with other men.  All of you just stop short of it. (You all know who you are, as you smile ever so smugly.)

These men, and you, in my personal estimation, as I did read your comments to a particular women back in February of 2009, carry on after, as if you are all quite noble, polite, well mannered - gallant, when writing your blogs, but when it comes time to commenting, quite the other story.  Unfortunately one can't have it both ways.  Words have energy, there is life on the printed page. You can choose to read it or not, but once you do it is imprinted. You may feel you were justified in commenting to Terry in that manner, many obviously do...

Look Christian, I am not the comment police nor am I squeamish with profanity. However, there are standards of exchange and they should apply unilaterally. If not, they are no longer standards, but merely a retractable velvet rope. I don't believe that you have expressed your standards of engagement, but many here have. Your opening statement on this blog just inches there.  It is evident that the so called standards of some who post and define what they feel is a rude attack, will clearly allow and accept it from others on the same thread, as long as they are not the target.  I am not at all saying that you, Christian are in that category.  You my friend may have been the proverbial straw the broke the camel's back, but your comment  stands as is, as does mine. In closing, I am not afraid to make a fool of myself when I see something that I feel is an injustice. It has nothing do with my politics, it has everything to do with my sensibilities.

 

 

 

Jun 08, 2009 09:34 AM
Es r
CSR - Huntington, TX

Michelle,

I appreciate your comment, yet it still it makes little sense to me. You state that I made comments to awoman back in February that prove that I treat woman differently than men. I ask you to provide a link or other reference to those comments so that I can see what you are talking about.

You  keep referring to me and "other men" so I am getting the feeling that you have experienced this problem with other men and are therefore projecting their behavior onto me. Not fair. I still believe that I have done nothing to indicate that I treat women any differently than men. In Terry's particular case, I am more vulgar because I dislike her views and her inability to justify them more than any other blogger on this site.

I am tough with her because I don't like her. It has nothing to do with her gender. You may belive whatever you want, but if you look at my comments objectively, you won't find any refernce to sex, chauvenism, or any other gender specific comments. I am just arguing politics.

If you disagree with me then do it with merit. Please do not bring up issues that don't exist. It really makes you less genuine and credible. Attack my points, not me.

Jun 08, 2009 09:58 AM
Michelle Viggiano
Four Winds Healthy Home Carpet & Air Duct Cleaning - Scottsdale, AZ
healthyhomeaz

Christian, I have not had that problem with men here on AR, or personally with men in general.  I own three companies and work with men daily.  Happily. I worked in Saudi Arabia for 10 years with men. - I was the only woman working among 40 men. Believe me, we had our differences.  Culturally, Spiritually, Politically.  And no one resorted to your methodology while "debating."  

That is the crux of my issue with you. I don't believe it is any longer a debate because of your style.  And certainly your manner in which you deal with Terry.  I find it offensive, you and others may not. I am not in the least concerned about my credibility in your eyes, nor am I at all bothered by your opinion of me. You have stated why you are more emotional with Terry, because you don't like her and basically don't respect her.  That doesn't make it OK. And yes, she is the woman I am referring to regarding your February comments.  So carry on Christian - "Debate" away. There are many who find you engaging - tread lightly, or you will alienate even the few who are in sync with you.

Jun 08, 2009 10:43 AM
Es r
CSR - Huntington, TX

Michelle,

Maybe I do need to change my style a bit. I am emphatic about what I believe in and what I see around me and in here. My passion stems from the fact that I believe that I see the truth of things. Not what I want to see or what someone else wants me to see but what is there. Personally, I really have no horse in the race.

Most of my political beliefs are based on the fact that I trust no one and belive no one is so competent as to run all of our lives. I wish our society was structured that way as to prevent anyone person or ideology to control so much of our lives. We should all  be free to make our own mistakes.

Maybe my side favors conservatism more than liberalism. I have had spats with some big Conservatives too on this forum (ask Nicholas Goglucci).

My point is that what I rally against most is people who, I feel, just tow the party line. To me they are the most dangerous of them all because they are the shock troops of tyranny. Tyranny from either side, Bush or Obama.

Terry, in particular, bashes Bush to justify Obama, always. She rarely says anything that is original or that I didn't hear on the morning news from some other liberal talking head. When pressed, she cannot substantiate anything she says. I have tried so many times to get her to actually debate and she will not.

I am affected by her choices. That is how it is in a democracy. I want all people to make informed wise choices. Do I always know which is the best choice? No. So I welcome others who have insights that I do not. I just wish that we, as Americans, stopped getting duped and elect thoughtful people. I also wish that we, as Americans, above all else realize that the government should be severely limited in its powers as it will abuse its power just as any corporation or other power will do.

History has shown us, time and time again, that power really does corrupt. Let's adhere to what our founding fathers wanted wich was a limited government.

Here is the Secret: all we need to do is to look, objectively and without any party loyalty, at the programs that our government has done in the past. Look at the money that they have spent. Look at their policies and their reach. I think we all can agree that the government has been the most powerful and influential leg of the chair of society. Many would argue that business controls government and that may be true. My point is that with all that power and influence the government still pays $500 for an air force toilet seat. Billions of dollars on education in Califionia and we are 48th in the nation for the best schools. Billions on healthcare, billions in New Orleans and they are not even near where they were. Billions on an underwater highway in Bostson and it leaks. Our government just doesn't do a good job when it does something. Everything they do costs 10 times what it should cost and is filled with corruption, partisanship and bloat.  Just look and you can see it everywhere. What is more is that it really makes no difference who sits in the President's chair or who has the majority in Congress.

Our problems keep getting worse and our issues bigger. The secret is that the government is and has always been the real problem. They do some good things, but they are far outweighed by the bad. You may disagree and I am happy to debate that, but if you agree than we should not discuss any other issues from now on. All we should strive to do is shrink and limit the government. Many of our problems will go away when we do.

Obama promised change and many of you liked that  idea. I think this was not the change you all wanted,but I see hope in the fact that we all wanted it.

Michelle, I will work on my debating tactics. Thank you.

Jun 09, 2009 06:31 AM
Scott Smith
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Gloucester, MA
Gloucester & Rockport, Massachusetts

Alice: I could care less what bile you post online.

Aug 03, 2009 10:35 AM
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Christain, I agree with you that too many people vote a party line without consideration of who the candidate is. Validation by the party is good enough for them. 

I must admit that I have voted for the lesser of the two evils.  In a close election even a small percentage of votes could sway in favor of the greater of two evils.

True that each administration throws barbs and blames the previous administration for the woes of the country. We fail to realize that we are as much to blame as a handful of politicians. 

I believe that political service should not be a career.  There should be term limits just like the Presidency.  You wind up with the same person holding a seat for life. New ideas and new blood should be allowed to flow through to stimulate democracy.

 

Aug 21, 2009 02:20 PM