I had my civil rights violated yesterday, and I was illegally detained. Has the United States become a police state?

Ok, so I have to start my lesson early, I see....

Richard, you said: I was exercising my first amendment rights, which, by the way, are lawful.

Which one? Assembly? Were you petitioning the government for a redress of grievances? Or was it that you were practicing a religion? It could not have been the press, as you are not a journalist. I suspect that you were under the impression that your "right" to take a picture of the courthouse fell under the freedom of speech clause of the First Amendment. Hmmmm.

Why are we so convinced that "rights" are absolute, with no restraints whatsoever? If you were yelling that the judges inside were flaming idiots incapable of rendering a just verdict and this had happened, you might have had a case. But you weren't. You wanted to take a picture of a building (that you said was having work done on it - i.e. the scaffolding), and you were asked who you work for - as you were, after all, about to take a picture of a public building under renovation. Your response was interesting. You said "I work for myself" - so, you are a broker? Just reading what your response was, I got the very distinct impression that, in so many words, you were telling the sherrif "None of your business"...which is why the question got repeated.

I'll continue the civics lesson latter...it is a whole post in and of itself. But I will address one other problem that I see here.

Gary S. said: Only a moron would not know why he was asking those questions and your answers are flippant and not trying to mitigate the situation.

Now, I'm trying to figure out when he personally called you, Richard Weisser, a moron. He didn't. What he did do was point out that you should have known better than to respond the way that you did.

Now, I will also say this: that his characterization of many AR members as mindless rodents was a bit of a broad stroke, which you and I most certainly are not. But seriously, have you tallied the number of people who have criticized your actions versus the ones who hopped on your bandwagon? It may have been a genralization that was not nice, but considering the responses you got, it might have been a little more than accurate...not the mindless rodent part, but rather the fact that too many people tend to agree with something without looking at all of the facts...sort of reminds me of the last time I had a conversation with you regarding the circumstances that lead to the founding of the Republic...

On June 27, 2002 U.S. Congressman Ron Paul said in the House of Representatives:

"...'Is America a Police State?' My answer is: 'Maybe not yet, but it is fast approaching.'"

Richard, I do owe you an apology. Some of my remarks in the previous post were made in anger and I was out of line. At the time I felt they were either point on or somewhat humorous. In my re-read, some were neither.  I am not as eloquent in my writing as Mr. Walton but his summation is accurate and I wish I could have said it that well!

As to my lemming comment, it was not meant as a totality of all messages but it seemed to me, when you have someone like yourself that has a flair for writing, that people just fall in line and never question. I don't frequent this site often but I actually thought of that as an honest appraisal of what I was witnessing. I am also sorry if that offended people. It was never my intent.

Since I only had one side of this to judge, I believe in my heart that you were wrong and the officer was right and doing what we pay him to do. So, I do not apologize for my position, just my inept delivery of my message. Even old people like me learn from their mistakes.

Perhaps a young man like you can also learn that tolerance is a blessing that you can share. We face some difficult times and the rights we once had are in flux right now. Being vocal and at the same time civil (a lesson I have learned) may mean it is easier to preserve these rights and gain the support to make it happen. 

Again, if I have offended anyone, it was not my intentions, however, to those that I did, I am sorry!

Richard, what guiles you may be the thing that protects me and my family. Have you ever considered this?

 Officers are trained and understand what in today's world constitutes a threat. I live in Florida and we trained the bomber in 911. Today it is more difficult to get training in the type aircraft that was flown. That is an infringement on our rights as you have portrayed them.

One of the things that were discovered in the files of terrorist was photographs of the buildings that they destroyed. Do you really find it that alarming that an officer might ask what you are doing? 

You write like an intelligent person but the conclusions you arrive at are less than that! I am having a great deal of difficulty understanding why it is so hard to understand why someone would ask you why you are taking photo's of a government building. I seem to remember the WTC and the Pentagon and seeing the photo's that they used. 

So is it so beyond belief that someone that is delegated to protect ask what you are doing? Is it also more correct to answer them where you state what you were doing, maybe similar to what you described when you spelled it out in your Blog. 

You see what Mr. Walton and I have seen is a dissimilar description given to the authorities and what you posted. Had you explained it as you did here, you may not have had a problem.

So, I don't see it as a civil rights infraction but you trying to exert or deny some power you perceive you have. The truth is that power is with the people that it protects. I a most would say that if my family was protected v/s Richard being able to take a picture, which would you, choose?  Do you really think it would be a hard decision? 

So when you frame your argument, you made it a civil rights thing. Yet I have yet to hear which of your rights were violated. I also think that question was asked by William. So, I will ask it again, what civil rights do you think was violated by the officer and why? 

I have tried to keep this dialog calm and reflective and trust that we can debate this. You see Richard, I am in my mid 60's and when I was married we had two waiting rooms. One for Blacks and one for Whites. That was a civil rights violation, although at that time it was not. 

I do understand rights and what we may surrender and what is good and bad is really perception. I am interested in all perceptions.

Love the photos you are able to share.  I was trying to remember for what our courthouse looked like...  We have some gorgeous old courthouses in some of the outlying counties but Columbus is a big city....  our present court house is is a high rise.    Your photos remind me of the movie 'Back to the Future'  I am not sure if the building with the broken clock was their county courthouse or their city hall.  I would assume security at city hall would be as vigilant in some cases as on a county level?  Or maybe not.  All relative?

If I may add a link that I think pertains: If the Bibb County GA  courthouse is not able to be photographed because of the danger today of terrorism is the future  Franklin County Courthouse  too exposed by showing these images on the internet?

I just spent 20 minutes reading all the comments here.

I am conservative, and hated the forming of HomeLand Security.

I want to raise and leave my kids a Constitutional Republic to live in too.

I had no idea you were a such a writer outside of blogging.

Gary S. - Based on the amount of points you have here on the AR Platform and your lack of blogging I can only assume you have not fully educated yourself with this platform and it's terms and conditions. I would suggest that you read them carefully as I can point out several violations within your comments.

First, let me explain Active Rain in a nutshell. Active Rain is a place for networking, to grow a readership for both agents alike as well as consumers. Anything you SAY and DO will be held against you. Whether a lost referral from Agents here who read such disturbing comments or the consumer you fail to engage. This, AR, as a business portal can make or break you, me, anyone. The fact that you disagree with what Richard has stated in his article is your poragotive however does it make you feel better to belittle, call names or degrade ? Everyone has the right to disagree. You do, I do and so does Richard. Richard chose to write about this because it bothered him. Just because he did not respond to the officer or the situation as you would have does not make him wrong. Just because you disagree does not make you right !

I have been on Active Rain for a long time. I have grown my referral network and my business because of it. We all have the right to disagree and we can do that tactfully, professionally and ethically. There is no excuse for grown men and women to resort to abusive acts such as name calling. I would think you were better than that. I wonder how your Broker would feel about the way you are representing his office within your comments ? Suffice to say I am certain he would not appreciate it.

I do not agree with your comments but yet I have not referred to you as a " moron " nor have I told you to go and put on your " big boy panties " nor have I told you to go clean up all the broken glass around you from " living in that glass house ".

Remember : Your professionalism WILL undoubtedly shine through here. We are not defined by what we have in our life or our level of education. What defines us is how we act or react to any situation that comes into our lives.

We can be book smart and recite our constitution backward and forward but that does not make us " life smart ".

Melissa, I don't think there is any need to berate Gary AFTER he has published a sincere public appology, accepted by Richard.  Doing so begs a response and can start the process again.

Gary has his personality, Richard his, I mine.  Warts and all.

~ WARNING ~ .02 ~ BLONDE OPINION ~  ;)

Gary is the broker and owner of several VERY successful RE companies. He has strong opinions obviously. But I have known him for 3 years and I would trust NO ONE more to care for my referral clients. Gary has performed acts of kindness and generosity that I have witnessed -- that would blow your mind if you knew. 

As this is a public post, I think there may be those who would want to read my side. (Apologies if I am wrong and Richard, as this is your post you are quite welcome to delete me if I overstep here)

TO THE PUBLIC: The amount of time one has spent on a blog site has NO bearing WHATSOEVER on their professionalism or competency as RE practitioners. There are brilliant writers on blog sites such as this one and several others who couldn't practice RE out of a paper bag. Many self-appoint as 'Specialist' or 'Coach' 'Moderator' or 'Guru'. Many have developed big followings. I commend the tenacity and discipline to come here every day and do that.

But 10M angels will not get you into heaven - and 10M devils will not damn you if your works - NOT YOUR WORDS - deem otherwise.

I base these statements on the personal experience of making referrals and ending up with disappointed clients.

I agree there is a diplomatic way to communicate on public forums.

However if we read through all the comments what Gary was doing WAS expressing his personality. Good bad ugly whatever.

Just like Richard was. I suspect if you got those two together they would become great friends.

This is a flat medium and there will ALWAYS be misunderstanding.

When we open our posts to comments there is a risk that people will disagree passionately and strongly.

It is what it is. I wouldn't let it ruin my day.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My experience with situation such as Richard experienced:

When I was 23 years old and DJ at a club in Orange County CA, it was St Patrick's Day and I had the flu. Went home early from my shift. Had had, during the evening while there, 2 styrofoam cups of green beer - probably about 6 oz total.

It was raining and I veered over a yellow line a bit. Got pulled over and asked if I'd been drinking.

(NOTE: whenever you say you just had 2 beers you will not be believed by any cop)

Copped diva attitude. (told cop he was obviously rookie on power trip) DUHHHH

Got taken in for DUI.

Did not blow sufficiently into breathalyzer to be charged.

However, was detained in drunk tank for several hours.

Were the cops buttheads? YES

Was I helpful by asserting myself? NO

Lesson learned: Choose battles!  :)

PRAJNA ~ NAMASTE

And thanks for all the fish! (wink) (smile)

Richard ~ Your comment in your post about needing a rest brought me back here. Yikes! I last read the post some 150 comments back so missed the brouhaha. 

And then I've spent most of the afternoon reading that *superb* set of comments on the photo.net site that you linked to in your comment above.  Wow - that's an impressive bunch that comments on that site.  It is all scary stuff. My mind is reeling. It's very disheartening that this is going on - and that so many think it is ok.  I've found myself recently thinking that the Constitution and Bill of Rights could never be written or approved in our country today. Sad.

Liz

Richard, I did not know that you were a journalist...or are you saying that because you have written something that was used by the press or that was published in a magazine or local newspaper that that gives you the designation of journalist?

I digress. I do want to say that I usually find your posts enlightening, entertianing, informative, and refreshing...but this one and one other that I've already alluded to I did take umbrage with (forgive me, it's the history teacher/historian in me).

I think someone (Ron Parise, I think it was) who neatly summed up a little of why some people might have been incredulous at your claim of having your rights violated (which, btw, you still haven't answered my questions on that score). Do I see things in this regard getting any better for anyone? No, but we can all work toward making things better one person at a time...

It's said to see our civil liberties being violated and I hope that if you did not file a complaint against that Sheriff that you do so. Actions like his should not be tolerated.

Richard,

You clearly misunderstood the point of my statements.

Your cerdentials not withstanding, you presented a story, the tone of which did not necessarily convey to me that there was due respect given to the sherriff.

I do understand your aggravation whith what happened...and no, I do not think that civil rights only belong to certain people...but as I stated earlier, rights are not absolute.

But the question still remains unanswered as to what rights you felt were violated by the sherriff in the exercise of his duties and when were you detained? - those were not so clear in the narrative you described.

Furthermore, in your narrative, you explained that you were at the courthouse with a client to record a survey...I assume (maybe wrongfully?) that you were assisting this client as a real estate agent, not as a journalist.

Have you taken notice of how many people have not agreed or sided with you in this? Your responses to those of us who have not necessarily sympathized with you, and the broad stroke with which you have just painetd me, speaks volumes...not that we all don't see your side of the matter, but apparently, you refuse to see ours...again, that speaks volumes....

A final note. Maybe if this incident was so egregious, then your first course, or final course, of action should be to follow the suggestions of Chris Bonata, the comment before my final response. Unless the whole point of this exercise was to make you feel justified...which the overwhelming majority has vouched for you on that score.

Richard,  I have to agree with your points and the posts of many of the ActiveRain participants.  What is really scarry and the root of the problem, the number of posters who think you were in the wrong and the Sheriff was just doing his job.

Like someone posted earlier - The Communist Countries have great security.