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Please Don't Banish Me for My Heresy

By
Education & Training with Illinois Real Estate Academy/Your House Academy 471.012866

It appears to me that a large percentage of the blog postings dealing with the challenges of the short sale, criticize the lender for being slow and sometimes almost unwilling to cooperate with the homeowner requesting a short sale.  I have an uneasy feeling that there is something inherently wrong with this picture.

Before I go any further, there are several points I want to make clear:

  • I am not defending the banking industry and their response to short sales
  • I empathize and sympathize with the homeowner who is engulfed by a financial crisis not of his own making
  • I am not criticizing or judging anyone's business practices unless they are unethical and/or ileagal
  • I have no idea as to an equitable solution for those trapped in distressful financial situations

Maybe I'm wrong, but I sense a spirit of entitlement that I do not believe is justifiable.

Let me use myself as an example.  John, a friend comes to me asks to borrow $10.00.  He's a little short this month, but he promises me that he will repay me next month.  On the basis of that promise I lend him the money.

Payday of the next month comes, but I don't hear from my friend.  I have my own bills to pay, and the $10.00 would sure help!  I call him at home, I leave messages, I e-mail, but no response.  I just can't get in touch with him.

A few days later, I receive a call from a mutual friend, Bill.  He tells me that John had some unexpected expenses and was laid off and was unable to repay the $10.00 he had promised to pay.  Bill then tells me that if I am willing to accept $2.00 and forgive the debt, that John can pay that $2.00.

I tell Bill to tell John that that he promised to pay me $10.00 and that's what I expect.  Bill tells me that it is really in my best interest to accept the $2.00.  I can accept the $2.00 or take him to court. Hmmm? filing fees $25.00, time off work, I could face a$50.00 - $100.00 loss to take him to court.  Maybe $2.00 is better than nothing, but I'll tell you one thing, I will never ever loan John money again and will tell all of my friends not to loan him money, because he does not keep his word and cannot be trusted.

Maybe I will take him to court.  I might not get my money, but maybe I can write the $50.00 off on my taxes as a bad debt.

Granted, that is an extremely simplified example, but why in the world do John and Bill feel that I should have to accept less than the $10.00 I was promised.  I would think that if asked, it would be up to me as to whether or not I accepted and under what terms I accepted without being accused of being unreasonable or uncooperative and bad mouthed for a determination not to agree.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if the lender did not in some way take advantage of the borrower, the terms were clearly disclosed and the borrower agreed to the terms, why should there be the expectation that the lender must and will take less than he is owed?

I find this attitude somewhat disturbing, but maybe that's because I'm from the old school that believes if you make a promise, you should keep it.  That's integrity.  If in a bind, it is certainly acceptable to discuss the problem with the other party and if the other party modifies the agreement to respond in gratitude, but there should be no expectation of a modification, after all, a promise is a promise.  

Comments(30)

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Robby Leviton
Metro Real Estate LLC - Kirkland, WA
Knowles Team

I don't blame the lender for not agreeing to a short sale but I don't like the way they are looked at so differently each time. Its also frustrating when I can push one through in days or weeks for an answer and the same bank takes months for the next one. My beef with the process is lack of consistency. The other side of it is for the lenders who hold the 2nd mortgage. I have been involved in several cases where they said no to taking a reduced amount knowing full well the next step was foreclosure. They must like foreclosures better since they pretty much were guaranteed that was the next step. The last one I was working they turned down because the offer wasn't as good as their five month old appriasal that we know was very outdated. So lenders set up a process and plan that is consistent and can be understood.

Aug 12, 2009 03:34 AM
Damian Czajka
Home Buyers Marketing II - Las Vegas - Las Vegas, NV

Mike,

We have a lot of short sales here in Las Vegas and I have a lot of experience with these transactions. I do not agree with your analogy. If there is a short sale, the bank already knows that they will lose money; they can either work now with the potential buyer, or eventually foreclose on the house and then several months later sell the same property for much, much less than offered by the previous potential buyer. In the meantime the property deteriorates, affecting the quality of the entire neighborhood. Personally, I was involved with one transaction where, due to asset manager neglect, we couldn't complete a short sale transaction for $724,000. The bank sold this property as an REO almost a year later for $520,000 (minus a year of carrying costs, of course.) This is just one example where the lack of response from the asset manager resulted in a loss to the lender that was much greater than it needed to be. And the asset managers get paid for this?

Anybody have a problem with this? I do.

Damian

Aug 12, 2009 03:35 AM
Rob Arnold
Sand Dollar Realty Group, Inc. - Altamonte Springs, FL
Metro Orlando Full Service - Investor Friendly & F

The main problems I see with this argument are as follows.

(1) If the lender is not willing to negotiate the short sale, then they need to simply tell everyone sorry.  We won't take a penny less than what is owed.  Instead they make you send them mountains of paperwork, then end up losing the paperwork so you have to send it again, then they take 3 months to make a decision all while they know that everyone is waiting and the buyer may grow impatient and disappear.  Why can't they make a decision quickly like on a REO?

(2) The federal government has given banks billions of dollars in TARP and other bailout funds to help out consumers.  However the banks are only allowing short sales or modifications on maybe 10-20% of the loans if even that much.  Let's see they take taxpayer dollars designed to help consumers and then they keep the money and don't help consumers.

(3) This is 2009.  Wake up banks.  Short sales are a fact of this market.  It's not like the banks are being surprised by the request for a short sale anymore.  Heck half the people I know talk about short sales in casual conversation at a weekend barbeque.

Aug 12, 2009 04:08 AM
Judy Orr
HomeSmart - Scottsdale, AZ
Scottsdale AZ and surrounding towns

The current short sale listing I have is either going to be a short sale or a foreclosure as my client lost her job and cannot get a loan modification.  I don't agree with the analogy of lending 10 bucks between friends and getting a mortgage from a bank.  If my friend lost their job, I wouldn't even expect the $10 back.  If it were a higher amount (I probably wouldn't have made a large loan to a friend to begin with), then I would expect repayment at some point in time since I am not a big business that can take these kinds of losses as a tax write-off like the banks can.

We're hearing too many stories like the one Damian (#14) mentioned, where the bank lost a lot more by not taking a short sale and letting a property go into foreclosure.  No, they do not have to take a short sale.  But if a homeowner is squeezed financially dry because of job loss or other misfortune, or if the borrower doesn't mind taking the credit hit, then the bank only has a couple of other choices.  As we cannot force the bank to do a short sale, they cannot force their borrowers to repay.

Aug 12, 2009 04:08 AM
Tim Bradley
Contour Investment Properties - Jackson Hole, WY
Commercial Real Estate Expert in Jackson Hole, WY

Heresy it is!

Aug 12, 2009 04:20 AM
Chris Cohn
Pacific Union Real Estate - Berkeley, CA
Berkeley California Real Estate

Does anyone understand why the banks "prefer" foreclosure to short sales?  If they don't "prefer" foreclosures, why can't the short sale process go more quickly and smoothly?

Aug 12, 2009 04:42 AM
Bill Gillhespy
16 Sunview Blvd - Fort Myers Beach, FL
Fort Myers Beach Realtor, Fort Myers Beach Agent - Homes & Condos

Hi Michael,  Interesting review of the effect of defaulting on a promise to pay.  The banks need to get their arms around the whole process and streamline it - fast !

Aug 12, 2009 05:14 AM
Tony Hager
United Realty Texas - Denton, TX
Broker

First of all, the comments I see here are doing basically what the National News Media is doing.  You are lumping all the banks under one big umbrella that accepted the bail out money and cheated their shareholders and customers.  Not all banks fit that scenario. Most are local banks that have strived to keep their noses clean and maintain their profit structures to their shareholders and services to their customers.  They get penalized just like the rest of us for the unscrupolous acts by these other banks, and when their mortgage holders decide they just want a cheaper payment because they can get the same sq ft across the street now for a cheaper price they walk because their original lender did them a favor and let them in their first home with $0 down.  I'm sorry but I agree with the author of this post, the people signed the mortgage papers making a promise to repay a loan it is not mandatory by the banks to lose and accept a short sale.  On another note it takes HUD anywhere from 3 to 6 months to clear up title to a home as well so it is not just the banks that take a long time to get these types of sales done.  It is just that HUD does it up front before they put the homes on the market.

Aug 12, 2009 05:21 AM
Charles Perkins
Charles G. Perkins, CPA - Burien, WA

I am interested in why loan modifications are not considered more often.  The banks often would still get full payment, but on terms that consumers can handle.

Aug 12, 2009 05:24 AM
Kimberly Lang
Keller Williams Fort Myers & The Islands - Fort Myers, FL

Actually Kathleen L - Banks do appear to be charities...charity receivers!

When they get millions/billions of dollars from tax payers and then do not feel the need to themselves be anything other than stand-offish, smug and down right unprofessional- I loose sympathy for the banks.

I also have very limited sympathy for people who bought homes they could not afford and never planned to live in- but instead planned to flip in IMMEDIATELY after closing to make 10-50K. I know of one woman who bought 7 homes from the same builder. That builder is now out of business and the lender is being investigated for mortgage fraud. Their negative am. loans with prepayment penalties just kills me. I have seen people who are forced into short sale solely due to the prepayment penalty. These can run upwards of $15,000 or more.

I do have genuine concern for people who had job loss, illness, death etc. These people fell on hard times and really are in a geniune crisis! If they owed me $10.00 and had tried to contact me I would be in mind to help them.

Many homeowners do call but are told "sorry- we can not help you..click" that is the sound of the lender hanging up the phone.

The Kimberly Lang Team
Keller Williams Elite Realty
24851 S Tamiami Trail Suite 1
Bonita Springs, FL 34134
When you think of Real Estate, Call The Red Realtor
239-677-8773 Kimberly
239-677-8780 David
www.SWFloridaHomeSearch.com
www.KimberlyLang.net
239-949-8339 fax
239-949-8338 office

 

Aug 12, 2009 05:29 AM
Thomas Batson
Citizens National Bank - Springfield, MO

I just have a quick comment as well.  As a lender, I am sure I will be called biased, but to each his own.  I do agree that it can get aggravating for each scenario to be treated differently, but each borrower is different, it's going to happen.  There are certain rules, but exceptions to each rule as I'm sure everyone would agree in their business. 

Most importantly, however, I would like to add as I have in a similar post.  We are all in this together.  I've heard people talk bad about lenders, realtors, underwriters, lawyers, etc.  I believe that if everyone works together in this economy we will get ahead.  Everyone is so divided and against one another that it won't change.  No one is trying to ruin others business or contract (with the exceptions I'm sure), but we need to help one another instead of blame.  Then I hear, "I try but I don't get anything from it."  My response is, so what!  Live and work the best you can and as ethically as you can and, although it may not fully relieve worry, you can go home to whomever you go home to and rest assured you are doing good. 

Will it happen? maybe.  Will it happen on a large scale?  Most likely not.  What will each of us do, though, to help our clients?  We go back to grade school, can one person make a difference? 

I'll end on that thought.  Sorry if I misspelled any word.

Aug 12, 2009 05:29 AM
Kimberly Lang
Keller Williams Fort Myers & The Islands - Fort Myers, FL

Chris Cohn Said:

Does anyone understand why the banks "prefer" foreclosure to short sales?  If they don't "prefer" foreclosures, why can't the short sale process go more quickly and smoothly?

In the state of Florida the lender has 4 yearsto pursue a deficiency judgment on a loan that went through short sale and 10 years if it forecloses. The banks have a long time to knock on your door down the road and expect payment.  Perhaps the banks want that time.

That is my opinion.

 

 

Aug 12, 2009 05:38 AM
Judy Orr
HomeSmart - Scottsdale, AZ
Scottsdale AZ and surrounding towns

A Consumer (#30), I was hired by my seller to sell her home as a short sale.  I do not expect to get paid as I do not know if this will make it to closing.  If it does, it is simply a bonus.  Yet I am trying to get the offer accepted, signed, sealed and delivered (and we were told our offer is exactly what the BPO stated value at). 

Now we're waiting for the bank to sign the contract and have been waiting for more than 2 weeks since we were told it was going to be accepted (this has taken a total of 2 months of calling, faxing, refaxing and being tossed around like a beach ball). 

I have gone through a roller-coaster of emotions with my seller.  We even tried to sell it without having to do the short sale but no one was biting.  The listing has been on the market since March '09.

With that said, I guess you do your job and don't expect to get paid, right?  But when we are hired to complete a specific sale, we shouldn't expect reimbursement according to you.  I've been working hard on this listing for 5 months.  If I get paid at all it will not be a quick paycheck.

Aug 12, 2009 11:27 AM
Joseph "Cathan" Potter
Coldwell Banker - Sebastopol, CA

I agree with your blog, and I must say, I find it interesting that so many of the commentors want to tell banks/lenders how to run the bank's/lender's business.  To take a short sale or to foreclose is the bank's/lender's decision not the agent's or seller's (since the bank/lender has a binding contract in effect that has only been breached by the other party).  Besides this, there's plenty of blame to go around for all parties involved.  Further, it's not as if the bank/lender derives any great benefit from either option presented.

I think many agents and their clients need to adopt the practice of knowing when to cut their losses and move on (just like the banks/lenders already do).

Aug 12, 2009 11:53 AM
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
Real Estate Broker Retired

I like your simplified explanation of the short sale and it drilled it home.  You also used the word 'integrity' - I'm afraid that there's not much of it around anymore.

Aug 12, 2009 01:01 PM
Gene Riemenschneider
Home Point Real Estate - Brentwood, CA
Turning Houses into Homes

I somewhat agree with your anology, but there are a few things missing:

  1. Do you refuse to answer or return there phone calls?
  2. Do you continue to loose the fax with the request they send you?
  3. Do tell them one thing one day and the other thing the next?
  4. Do you have them jump through a bunch of hoops then say no?
  5. Did you friends Uncle Sam just bail you out with $1,000.00, and yet your refuse to help him with $8.00?
Aug 12, 2009 04:16 PM
Bob & Leilani Souza
Souza Realty 916.408.5500 - Roseville, CA
Greater Sacramento Area Homes, Land & Investments

I noticed a couple of things that weren't mentioned in Michael's original scenario, which would have made it more comparable to today's real-life situation:

  1. There was no mention of the interest John must have been paying to Michael for the $10.00 loan.
  2. There was no mention of bailout/TARP money that Michael may have received from the government.

Borrowers have every right to ask for a loan modification or short sale; lenders have every right to accept or deny them.

Aug 12, 2009 07:38 PM
Michael Hurt
Realty Executives e-Group - Shelby Township, MI

I'm actually a little taken aback that anyone has disagreed with your basic premise, Michael.

If you make a promise, you keep it. Period.

The mortgagor signed a contract saying they would pay back the money--they are obligated to pay it back. What contract obligates the bank to do a short sale?

That's not to say they shouldn't do a short sale or that they don't have some moral or ethical obligation to do it. That's not saying it is or isn't in their best interest financially. These are separate arguments.

But it is a FACT beyond dispute that the banks have no legal obligation to do a short sale while the home owner DOES have a legal obligation to pay back the money.

Well done, Mike. I'm glad to see many of us still believe in integrity and personal responsibility.

 

Aug 13, 2009 06:43 AM
Christine Donovan
Donovan Blatt Realty - Costa Mesa, CA
Broker/Attorney 714-319-9751 DRE01267479 - Costa M

I understand it's the lender's right to deny the short sale, but don't understand the decision to do so when they are going to then list it for less than the short sale price.

When you break it down to it's basic parts, it doesn't sound good, but it is reality, and business decisions need to be made in a timely manner.

Aug 14, 2009 05:14 PM
Roger Johnson
Hickory, NC

Here we go again!  The borrower is supposed to have integrity and morals about this situation, but what about the lender?  I wrote a post on this subject awhile back.  My main answer is there.

Just because a borrower is attempting a short sale doesn't automatically mean that they are attempting to get out of a debt.  Most are trying to do their best to pay what they can and a short sale is simply the best option to get the lender the most money possible.  Shame on lenders who say that they will do short sales and then take 4-6 months to approve/deny them.  In almost all cases, the original buyer has already walked from the deal.

So my question for you in that case, should the borrower then be responsible for the amount of the short sale since they had a ready, willing, and able buyer 4 months ago, but because of the banks slow-moving process, the buyer has left.  Now, the bank tells the borrower, "sorry, but you still owe us.  Guess we're just going to foreclose."  Is that your idea of integrity?

Even if a short sale is completed, it may not relieve the borrower of the original debt.  With deficiency judgements, personal loans, etc, being put in place for the remainder of the balance.  Oh, and let's not forget the hit to the borrower's credit.  Btw, the majority of people that I've helped in this situation usually are stressed completely out by it, can't sleep, can't eat, are generally extremely upset by the whole ordeal.  If they didn't have integrity, then it probably wouldn't bother them, would it?

This whole mess is a lot more complicated than a $10 loan to a friend, both looking at it from an individual (case by case) standpoint and as the industry in general.  There are lots of factors that come into play: the borrower's ability to pay, the bank's intent to actually make money, Gov't bailout funds, state laws, etc, etc.

You say that agents and borrowers attempting short sales seem to act like their entitled to them.  That's not the case at all.  What they are entitled to is a FAST ANSWER.  If the lender is willing to accept (or as many have said, recommended to the borrower to do a short-sale), then the bank should also be willing to respond to a short sale offer in a reasonable time-frame.  Reasonable does not mean 4 months from now.

Finally, I have to say that if you've not be personally hit with the situation, personally involved in helping with it, or have someone close to you going through this, I think it would be next to impossible for you to actually judge anybody's integrity facing it.

Just my thoughts.

Aug 15, 2009 11:46 PM