Health Care Bill or NOT?

By
Home Builder with CDM Construction

I am not going to jump in here as though I really know enough about what this Bill will or will not do to help or to hurt the average American. I try to catch what I can on the local news each night before i hit the sack but depending on what channel i am watching and which way the wind is blowing I rarely hear the same thing other than higher taxes and government take over.

In reality I guess the reason I decided to write about this subject is really in hopes to get some input from some of you on what the truth about this Bill is.

I don't see how it will lead to the government takeover to the extent it will do away eventually with private insurance companies because it seems to me they are to big a player to let this ever happen.

As for long lines and waiting lists it sounds like what I go through every time I go to the VA in Prescott or Las Vegas.

I guess some of what concerns me most is I ask a lot of people what they think but no one seems to know what is really going on. Even my good friend who has read the Bill and is active politically and always online doing something can only add so much to my complete ignorance about this.

As a Builder and General Contractor I will not be affected. I sub contract the work and the 3 or 4 men who work for me do so as self contracted laborers. But I can understand how this could affect business owners when they are forced to obtain insurance for their employees. and I would not be happy at all about having to pay a penalty if I failed to get the insurance.

My bet is there will be a whole lot of people who are cut back to part time like Wal-mart does to avoid insuring their workers.

I look forward to any FACTs about the pros or cons of the Bill.

                                     **************************************                           

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CDM Construction
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Contact Earl Barger (CDM Construction)
Cell Phone
(928) 716-3599
Description
My company has been building Quality Homes and Business's for over 25 years in the Greater Kingman Area. Home prices average $85 a sq ft built on your land or $115 sq ft 1 acre lot and home.

 

 

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Rainer
302,425
Terry Haugen STAGE it RIGHT! 321-956-2495
Stage it Right! - Melbourne, FL

Earl, I think much of what we have heard from the "right" is pure fear mongering.  All one need do is look around at other countries and how their health care programs work, to see, that we, supposedly the greatest nation on the planet, can do the same for our people, IF we really want to, and IF our elected officials stop listening to the health insurance industry!

Nov 22, 2009 11:50 AM #1
Rainer
69,732
Dan Sanley
La Mesa, CA

Earl, I am with you as far as trying to understand all that is in this health care bill.  It is so massive, that I wonder how even the law makers have time to read it all, let alone understand it.  It is written in "legalese" so for common people, forget it!  We have to be trusting of someone out there to advise us on facts.  Unfortunately there are too many fear mongers that you have to tune out to get to the truth.  The government does have a website that explains things you may not understand.  They changed names a couple of times, so let me confirm what it is and get back to you on that.

As we progress over the next few weeks (months) more and more information will be made available about what is in the bill and how it impacts every day people.

I want to comment on health coverage for contracted laborers as well.  Later.

Nov 22, 2009 10:32 PM #2
Rainmaker
335,293
Leslie Prest
Leslie Prest, Prest Realty, Sales and Rentals in Payson, AZ - Payson, AZ
Owner, Assoc. Broker, Prest Realty, Payson,

I don't know either, but I'm worried that they will pass something requiring everyone to get insurance, but without a public option, and that we will all be at the mercy of private insurance (God help us!).

Nov 23, 2009 07:48 AM #3
Rainer
302,425
Terry Haugen STAGE it RIGHT! 321-956-2495
Stage it Right! - Melbourne, FL

Leslie, I have faith that in the end, the bill will be the best we can get for the time being.  This is not the end of health care reform in this country, only the beginning!

Nov 23, 2009 11:05 PM #4
Rainer
69,732
Dan Sanley
La Mesa, CA

Earl,

Here is a government website that is a good start to helping sort things out.

http://www.healthreform.gov/

 

Nov 25, 2009 01:53 AM #5
Anonymous
Georgia

Hey Earl.  To be sure the healthcare bills (house and senate versions) are confusing.  If you really want to understand them it will require much reading from different sources.  I'll list some important highlights.

!)  Our nation can't afford another entitlement program that is going to put us deeper in debt.  So far, both bills do exactly that...without cutting the cost.  Tricks that are being used on the foolish public.   a) Removing the Doctors Cost from the Healthcare Bill.  Cost is $210 BILLION.  This IS healthcare, how can they remove it from the total cost of healthcare?  Do they think we are that dumb?  b)  COLLECTING TAXES for 10 years, but offering services for 6 years.  If every business could do this, we'd all be making record profits!!  Don't you wish you could charge your customers for more service than they get for YEARS?!  This is the scenario that the CBO did their projections on.

2)  Medicare and Medicaid are nearly bankrupt.  Additionally, who in there right mind thinks that adding 72 more GOVERNMENT AGENCIES will save money?  Riiiight.  Actually, I believe this push for healthcare reform is nothing more than the pillaging of all our collective "pockets" in order to save the politicians asses because of the impending bust.

3)  Do yourself a favor and read healthcare news from the UK at least once a week.  You'll get a great taste of what our system would turn into.  Have a rolaid ready to pop because you are going to get SICK when reading.  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/

Here is a good story to start with:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6647757/Cancer-and-dementia-research-funding-could-be-spent-on-free-social-care-says-Andy-Burnham.html

 

Nov 25, 2009 01:58 AM #6
Anonymous
Georgia

God help us if we are at the mercy (and relying on the crumbs) from the elite politicians!  You can fire your insurance company.  If the feds get hold of your "life" vis-a-vis your healthcare, you can't fire them!  Additionally, there are great details in both bills about putting citizens in PRISON who do not pay their healthcare bill.  The IRS has been tasked with handling that part.

Currently the politicians have made it ILLEGAL for insurance companies to insure across state lines.  By passing that law, this gave insurance companies "monopolies" and STOPPED COMPETITION.  Why don't the politicians nix that law?  Give us real competition?

Why haven't the politicians done anything about tort reform?  Any physician will tell you it is THE BIGGEST problem they have. 

Why are the elit politicians exempting themselves from this "great" healthcare plan???  Are we that dumb to not know the answer?

Nov 25, 2009 02:10 AM #7
Rainer
69,732
Dan Sanley
La Mesa, CA

Yeow, if it isn't confusing enugh, Earl, after you go through all this "stuff", tell me what you think.

We need a universal health care plan, and us Yanks can bad mouth Europe, Canada, and whoever else has it, but if you really look into it, there are few complaints.  To be able to walk in and get health care when you need it is a wonderful thing.  The rest of this plan we caan work out and discuss.  I don't deny that I have concerns over some of the provisions as well.  But to reject it outright is wrong.  Let's fix it and make it work.  We all have to come together for that to happen.

Foremost in my mind, Georgia, whoever you are, help us here:  Earl contracts people to work for him.  WHO is going to pay for their health care under this plan, Earl, or the contractors?  Or the government (the tax payers).  I am serious, as I am not able to figure this out from all the detail out there.

Georgia has a balls on question, WHY HASN'T THE GOVERNMENT DONE ANYTHING ABOUT TORT REFORM?  I will tell you why, too many lawyer contributors to the Democratic Party candidates, that's why.  They are beholding.  This is the kind of crap that has to stop.  Likewise, we should no longer be beholding to the insurance industry or to drug companies.  Let's step forward to do something right for ALL Americans for a change.

Let's try to help out Earl and many other citizens who are just trying to make a living without the governement sucking every cent out of their pocket, but at the same time have an equal quality of life and access to affordable health care.

 

Nov 25, 2009 11:18 AM #8
Rainer
69,732
Dan Sanley
La Mesa, CA

OBTW Georgia had a lot of legitimate points if you can get over some of the fear items.  Hope you can sort it all out.  It isn't easy.  One thing for certain, IF there is a government plan option available (we don't know yet), it is going to only cover a small percent of the population who isn't working or down on their luck.  This is NOT a government takeover of health care.

Please take the time to see what happened in Canada when all the fear tactics were used, and didn't come into being.  A man by the name of Terry is posting on TLIR.  Interesting stuff as to what happened there.  Here it from someone who lives there, don't depend on fear mongers here who don't have all the facts.

That is what this should be all about, coming up with the facts.  We need to hear BOTH sides.

 

Nov 25, 2009 11:27 AM #9
Rainer
69,732
Dan Sanley
La Mesa, CA

 Obama's proposal is being mischaracterized as a Canadian-style plan by his opponents. In Canada and Britain, all citizens have health care coverage, provided by the government and paid for with taxes. 

You can check to see what is going on in England, but it is not even close to relevant to what is in the current U.S. Health Care Reform Plan.

It appears that the current plan says everyone must have insurance, and the "government option" is in there for to assist small businesess owners or for individuals like contractors who cannot afford regular corporate insurance.

Nov 27, 2009 12:07 AM #10
Anonymous
Georgia

Hey Dan!  Hope you and yours had a great Thanksgiving!!

With all due respect, I disagree that we should not be looking at the UK and Canada to see the history and problems with nationalized healthcare.  First, our Constitution does not allow the elite politicians to MANDATE us to purchase anything.  Second, we can't afford any further debt.  We are all going down the drain if we don't get ahold of our economic future PRONTO.

The Senate bill offers only a 2 year tax credit for small businesses.  However, those small businesses who will actually qualify for those tax credits will be few.  For instance, if you have more than 10 employees, you don't qualify.  If your employees are paid more than minimum wage, you don't qualify.  Getting the picture?

There is a figure of 8% per employee that this healthcare bill will cost.  Many small business will not be able to sustain their current employee base.

I especially like the "creep" language they've tucked into the bill.  Essentially what will happen is that even if you don't get another raise in the next 5 years, you will be put in a HIGHER TAX BRACKET because of this new language.  It removes the adjustment for inflation each year!  So when inflation hits big time, which it most certainly will (remember the Carter years of 13%, 10 and 11.5% inflation) everyone is going up a TAX BRACKET or TWO!

This most definitely is a takeover of healthcare by the government.  When the government TELLS EVERYONE what care they can have.  What care they MUST PAY FOR.  Puts penalties of tax and prison in the bill, how can you look at it any other way?

The recent recomendation by the GOVERNMENT PANEL is a small taste of the future rationing.  The government panel recommended that women not get mamograms until 50, instead of 40.  They also recommended that pap tests be done only every other year and start later in life.  The oncologists are flipping over this outrageous recommendation.  The American Cancer Society made a very strong statement against it.  Things got so hot for obama and crew that sebelious came out and denounced it!!  What a joke.  The damage is done.  Now every insurance company, medicaid and medicare will be able to DENY payment of those services.

 

I personally think the best question is, WHY ARE THE POLITICIANS EXEMPTING THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILY???

Nov 30, 2009 08:48 AM #11
Rainer
6,797
Earl Barger
CDM Construction - Kingman, AZ

Sorry all I do not have much time for computers and i am just now getting to all the comments. I want thank you for the info and the links and I am going to take a serious look at all of what you have said.

Dec 02, 2009 04:34 PM #12
Rainmaker
166,573
Tina Gleisner
Home Tips for Women - Portsmouth, NH
Home Tips for Women

I'm not sure what the right answer is but I do know that today's health system is broken. I didn't understand this while working for a large corporation but start a small business, and you get caught up in it right away. What I've learned running my handyman business:

  • Everyone buying health insurance is already subsizing free health care for those without coverage, who show up at the emergency room. Their care costs more and it's worse, because the problems are much worse than if they went to the doctor when they initially got ill.
  • Government is already entangled in healthcare and the games with workers comp insurance are crazy. I won my hearing for carpel tunnel but insurance company settled after employee was allowed to contest the finding. There was NO accident, doctors records showed symptoms of carpel tunnel for 3 years (he only worked for me for 6 months). This employee knows how to work the system, i.e. going back to school, and wanted paycheck to live off. Employers are caught in the middle as ownership of health problems gets tossed around.
  • Contractors - why shouldn't they have health coverage like everyone else, and I don't mean by the wife getting a job with benefits which is how its' done today.

Maybe the new solution isn't right but I hope it's a step in the right direction.

Dec 21, 2009 07:58 PM #13
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