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By Chris Duphily

Home Inspector with A2Z Home Inspections

July 06, 2007 04:45 AM

True depiction of a conversation I had with someone last month:

Here is the scenario - your talking "shop" with a real estate colleague when the subject of mouse droppings comes up.

He says:

It's not your job to note droppings!
Droppings are not a part of the "home"
You are not a licensed exterminator!
You are your own worst enemy!

(I will agree with him on the last comment)

I say:

If droppings are present then they are in MY report as :further review of unknown animal droppings observed in (insert area here) Recommend further review by licensed pest control company.
Possible Health hazard to family
Nuisance to family
Destructive (eating through sheetrock, wiring, making homes in heating/AC ducts etc.)

if it's there call it out for further inspection/treatment!

Yes it is above the sop, but i choose clear conscience over sop every day and twice on Sundays!

I've never had a client use this information to get out of a contract, yet every client appreciated knowing a problem existed as well as how to minimize/eliminate the potential problem.

Can this "kill a deal" ... yes if it's reported without educating the client on simple measures to take to help alleviate the situation. Frankly, in my opinion it's up to each individual inspector to educate their client in a calm, professional manner on any issue found during an inspection.

Quite simply Education alleviates fear

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Chris Duphily

A2Z Home Inspections - Stroudsburg, PA

Stroudsburg PA Home Inspector

Shawn ...I agree 100% even though termites are another story all together ;)

Thanks to all for taking the time to express your opinions.

Jul 07, 2007 06:55 AM

Dale Baker

Baker Energy Audits and Commercial Properties Inspections - Claremont, NH

New Hampshire Relocation Real Estate Information

Howdy Chris

Congrats!

I like this post of yours very much.

I also report on it.

Jul 07, 2007 07:43 AM

Frank DeNora

Century 21 Keim Real estate - East Stroudsburg, PA

Chris,

As a realtor I would want to know everything I can about the house. I want my clients to purchase a home knowing as much as possible!!!.

Question??I agree with your answer to the termite question. i'll qoute your answer."I agree 100% even though termites are another story all together"Now would that answer hold true for these droppings you speak of??

Frank

Jul 08, 2007 07:26 AM

Chris Duphily

A2Z Home Inspections - Stroudsburg, PA

Stroudsburg PA Home Inspector

Not sure I understand your question Frank. My comment pertaining to termites (as well as all WDI actually) was tongue in cheek, meaning that "Wood destroying inspects" could be a seperate blog all together, as I am sure there have been many discussions about that subject between inspectors, real estate agents, mortgage professionals etc.

If your asking "do I as a home inspector call out evidence of wdi as well as droppings, rodent traps etc" then the answer is yes I do. THe same as I would for evidence of bats, raccoons, squirrels. The list of "pests" is endless.

Jul 09, 2007 03:27 AM

David Helm

Helm Home Inspections - Bellingham, WA

Bellingham, Wa. Licensed Home Insp

I actually have a blurb in my report about Hantavirus and ways to safely clean up and remove rodents. If I see droppings, especially if there seem to be a lot of them, I photo and enter my blurb.

Jul 09, 2007 05:28 AM

David Helm

Helm Home Inspections - Bellingham, WA

Bellingham, Wa. Licensed Home Insp

I actually have a blurb in my report about Hantavirus and ways to safely clean up and remove rodents. If I see droppings, especially if there seem to be a lot of them, I photo and enter my blurb.

Jul 09, 2007 05:29 AM

Carl Winters

Canyon Lake, TX

I would write it up in my report for further review by a licensed pest control representative. These critters are capable of causing some serious damage.

Jul 12, 2007 03:38 PM

Rob Robinson- Lehigh Valley PA

Bertrum Settlements (Title & Abstract) - Allentown, PA

Might I add, I'd like to know if there were any indications of there having been any Dallas Cowboy fans living in the house. Those stinkin' little droppings could very well be explained by the type if riff raff that owned the home.

On the serious side, I have no idea as to how far an inspection would go. Do you write down the number of dead spiders (or live spiders) in the basement per square foot? (an exaggeration of course).

In other words.... how is a 'dropping' defined for your reporting purposes number of them? weight? Limited to rodents?

There could be a 'dropping' behind the furnace that happened to be there while the house was under construction. OK, it's there... can you determine its age? (lol - I was just thinking of when I was feeling deer poop to see if it was warm - thus fresh while hunting years ago)

Jul 13, 2007 01:05 AM

Chris Duphily

A2Z Home Inspections - Stroudsburg, PA

Stroudsburg PA Home Inspector

<quote> Rob Robinson "Might I add, I'd like to know if there were any indications of there having been any Dallas Cowboy fans living in the house. Those stinkin' little droppings could very well be explained by the type if riff raff that owned the home." </quote>

LOL, I find that to be true with Miami/Buffalo fans (I am an AFC guy myself). I'll have to incorporate Cowboy fans in my questioning to homeowners and agents when "droppings are found. ;)

<quote> Rob Robinson "On the serious side, I have no idea as to how far an inspection would go. Do you write down the number of dead spiders (or live spiders) in the basement per square foot? (an exaggeration of course).

In other words.... how is a 'dropping' defined for your reporting purposes number of them? weight? Limited to rodents?

There could be a 'dropping' behind the furnace that happened to be there while the house was under construction. OK, it's there... can you determine its age?" </quote>

Excellent question!

"droppings" is one form of "evidence of prior rodent activity" , as is rodent baits, dead rodents in basement, attic etc etc.

I simply make my client aware of possible past activity IF I find any evidence it has to be noted. That being said I'm not going to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

If I only observed a single dropping or bait in a single area of the home upon completion of my inspection I simply show my client where it was observed and recommend they keep an eye out for further activity, and to make sure children can not access the area where the bait was observed. noted in report as general information recommend client monitor.

If evidence is observe in various parts of the home or in abundance in any single area then I note it as a health/repair concern (dependant on the type fo pest found), and recommend having a pest expert come out for a full evaluation/treatment.

In any case I always explain that there are 2 types of homes - Homes that have had a pest problem and homes that will have a pest problem whether the pest is mice, squirrels, carpenter ants, etc etc.

Here are a few examples of evidence that is reported as a safety/repair concern:

ants observed in suspended ceiling.

Frass observed with ants active in the general area

One of numerous areas of "droppings" noted:

Bait box and droppings observed in attic (droppings where prevalent throughout attic)

Jul 13, 2007 04:50 AM

Chris Duphily

A2Z Home Inspections - Stroudsburg, PA

Stroudsburg PA Home Inspector

Here is a link to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention - PA specific article

Jul 13, 2007 05:12 AM

Rob Robinson- Lehigh Valley PA

Bertrum Settlements (Title & Abstract) - Allentown, PA

WOWZERS............ I see dinner !!!

No seriously.....great pics........ Thank you.

Jul 13, 2007 11:11 AM

Chris Duphily

A2Z Home Inspections - Stroudsburg, PA

Stroudsburg PA Home Inspector

Rob - my father use to tell me jimmies or sprinkles (which ever term you prefer) where really Chocolate covered ants. I was one P.O.'d 8 yr old!

seriously though .... your welcome

Jul 13, 2007 03:34 PM

Harold Miller

Miller Home Inspection - Stanwood, WA

Certified Professional Home Inspector

Chris

Couldn't agree with you more. If it looks like something the buyer should be made aware of, then it never hurts to tell them.

Even though I am not a coroner, if I crawled into the attic during a home inspection, and found a body, I think it would probably be good to start with notifying the buyer.....at least. :)

That might even be noted somewhere in the report findings.

Oct 25, 2007 04:53 AM

Joseph Michalski

Precision Home Inspection - Lansdale, PA

PA Home Inspector

Hi Chris! I think it is certainly no secret among the inspectors in the industry that the Standards of Practice (SOP) are really a bare minimum of what we should be doing. Those who adherely rigidly to them for fear of litigation should save their concern - they are providing so little value to the client that they will soon find it difficult to attract any clients.

Many non-inspectors may not be aware that most SOP's don't even require walking easily reached or standard slope roofs. And we only have to test a "representative sample" of doors, windows, and outlets. As I tell my clients - that is ok, I guess if you like gambling that the outlet you plug your computer into is wired properly and grounded. If you prefer not to fry your hard drive - go with someone who will check them all.

Mouse droppings is another easy one. It is not hard to identify them, and you can bet that EVERY client wants to know if they have mice (maybe charge them rent!!)

Be well!

Oct 25, 2007 06:04 AM

Kenneth Miller

Jordan Hill Home Services, LLC - Berkley, MI

Darn right I'll call it out. I'll recommend a follow up by a pest control firm, but if I see it, I have to inform the client. No hesitation. If that makes me my own worst enemy, so be it. I've done dumber things.

Oct 25, 2007 06:36 AM

Jim Ellis

Ellis Home Inspection Services - Pensacola, FL

I certainly call it out here. Droppings, tunnels in the attic insulation and chewed wires are all bad signs for the homes. Whenever I see mouse traps or bait I wonder if the home owner has disclosed rodents to the purchaser.

Oct 26, 2007 11:42 PM

Darren Miller

About The House - Succasunna, NJ

With mice droppings there is usually some sort of an attempt to control; usually the bags or pans full of poison. Here is my standard marco whenever I see the mice poison:

"Evidence of mice poison in basement. It is recommended that all poison be properly removed from basement to prevent any possibility of it being transported into house and having a negative effect on occupants."

Nothing like having a child pick up a toy from the basement and having some mice droppings or poison on it; we must try to keep our clients safe & healthy.

Darren

www.aboutthehouseinspectons.com

Oct 27, 2007 11:36 PM

Erby Crofutt

B4 U Close Home Inspections&Radon Testing (www.b4uclose.com) - Lexington, KY

The Central Kentucky Home Inspector, Lexington KY

Don't forget the nasty bat droppings in the attic.

Report it. Recommend they have it taken care of.

In addition to hantavirus, there's also histoplasmosis.

Wear your breathing protection in those attics and crawl spaces.

Stay safe!

Oct 28, 2007 12:07 AM

Chris Duphily

A2Z Home Inspections - Stroudsburg, PA

Stroudsburg PA Home Inspector

"Many non-inspectors may not be aware that most SOP's don't even require walking easily reached or standard slope roofs."

... and to think after numerous knee surgeries I still walk every roof I can, after checking the attic first.... I don't like to be the reason for the new "sky light" but that's another thread for another time ;)

From my family to yours .... A Very Happy and SAFE Thanksgiving to all!

Nov 16, 2007 11:11 AM

Rod Finch

Pioneer Property Inspectors LLC - La Crosse, WI

Well said Chris.

Nov 20, 2007 11:27 AM