Man Flies Plane Into IRS Building ~ Austin Texas ~ His Manifesto Outlines His Frustration

By
Real Estate Agent

 

Today a private individual Joseph Andrew Stack took his small plane and crashed it into a building housing the IRS in Austin Texas.

Prior to the crash this man set his home on fire as well. 

  • His act was evidently the result of his despair and inability to deal with his life and the hell IRS was putting him through.


He posted his manifesto on line trying to convey his frustration with government and the situation in this country.  A man who like many of us had been adversely impacted by the down turn in our country.

  • Such an act of desperation shows how unglued this man became when trying to deal with what he saw as a hopeless and unfair situation. 


One has to wonder how many other people are equally frustrated, who might resort to some uncivil acts, fueled by the financial destruction of their lives.

Fox News indicated it was posted on line.  I copied it here in the event it is removed later today

____________________________________________________________________________

If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?”  The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time.  The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken.  Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it.  I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head.  Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy.  Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all.  We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers.  Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”.  I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood.  These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind.  Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours?  Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies.  Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”.  It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system?  Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand.  Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand.  The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is.  If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here? 

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s.  Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English.  Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions.  In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy.  We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God).  We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living.  However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0.  It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie.  It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father.  I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.  My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker.  Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement.  Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement.  All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time.  When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me).  I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread.  I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made.  I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer... and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

·      "another person" is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.

·      "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.

·      "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you.

 

Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated.  The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d).  Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave.  Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time.  I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity.  This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”.  Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise.  The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists).  This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle.  If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks.  Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s.  Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that.  The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco.  However, because the government caused it, no one gave a shit about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall.  Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed.  Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare.  Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months.  This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive.  Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY!  After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change.  Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while.  So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done.  I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work.  The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a fuck about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA.  This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income.  I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need.  The sleazy government decided that they disagreed.  But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out.  Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present.  After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again.  But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle.  After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order.  I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting.  Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit.  By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented).  Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone.  The end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything.  Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”.  Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone.  The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government.  Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough).  In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand.  It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants.  I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after.  But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change.  I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less.  I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are.  Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer.  The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of shit at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different.  I am finally ready to stop this insanity.  Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

 

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

 

Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010

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Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Larry,  I heard an interview with a photographer/marketer who was helping this guy promote an album he made.  Evidently he was also an accomplished musician.  I also understand from an interview with a flight instructor that he had many many hours and money invested in his pilots license.  He held a multiple engine license and instrument rating.  From what he said that was an indication of how accomplished he was.

The photographer never once suspected there was a problem in his life.  Many times these over achiever type personalities are unable to talk to anyone.  It is a sign of weakness to them.

Feb 19, 2010 05:21 AM #23
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Bob,  I do not look at him in the same light.  This man was driven by personal demons not ideologies.  Much the same as Postal workers who shoot up the workplace.  He was venting on what he perceived the cause of his problems.

I'm not defending his actions.  I'm pointing out that he may represent a growing segment in our society and that we might expect more out bursts from people who also find themselves with their backs against the wall.

Feb 19, 2010 05:27 AM #24
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Nick, Thank you for the feature

Feb 19, 2010 05:28 AM #25
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Nick,  as you see from my prior remarks, I cannot label him a terrorist.  The Professor who shot up co-workers at a tenure meeting was not labeled a terrorist.  Postal workers who shot co-workers were not considered terrorists.  The shooters at Columbine were not labeled terrorists.

I believe these situations are caused when a person who has a tendency towards mental imbalance is pushed to their breaking point.  Bottom line - he was not wrapped tight to begin with - his actions were not wanton - they were specifically targeted as were the above.

Feb 19, 2010 05:32 AM #26
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Michael,  I agree with you.  The tax code and those who administer it are often times not fair or equitable.  I personally know several people who made "Geitner" type mistakes, and were pursued relentlessly by IRS like criminals.

I'd be in favor of a fixed or flat tax.  Simple to understand.  Simple to collect via payroll taxes.  The rub comes in with self employed individuals.

Feb 19, 2010 05:35 AM #27
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Wallace,  I had not heard about any other deaths.  It is sad for his family.  Its sad that he felt compelled to take such action.  It almost sounds like insanity.

Feb 19, 2010 05:37 AM #28
Rainmaker
87,184
Israel Barden
RE/MAX Big Bear Village - Big Bear Lake, CA

The IRS should be labeled a terrorist organization. It is evil and outdated and has ruined countless lives. That being said, how is this guy flying into a building any different from Osama Bin Laden?  

Feb 19, 2010 09:29 AM #29
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Israel,  The IRS is the least regulated and most powerful entity within our government. They run unchecked unless the taxpayer is financially able to take them to court.

The other fact you have to remember about IRS is the interpretation of the regulation is limited to the agent working the file.  While one taxpayer may get away with a deduction, another in a different region does not.

Why isn't Professor Amy Bishop considered a terrorist?  She targeted those she deemed to be her tormentors.  So did Stack.  Are insane actions now acts of terrorism?

Why wasn't the Unibomber considered a terrorist?  Why weren't the DC snipers label terrorists?  They shot two people in my town. They killed 13 people and wounded 2.  They paralyzed a 100 mile radius of Washington DC. We lived in terror for weeks afraid to pump gas into our cars.  To this day no one referrers to their actions as terrorism.

It's a new buzz word in our society and label for every aggressive act. 

Terrorism is an act of war designed to inflict not only physical but widespread financial and psychological damage on the greatest number of people.  9/11 did just that.  The affects were felt nationwide.  The Fort Hood shooter put fear in the hearts of Americans who now have to question how safe our military is internally.  It was emotionally undermining for our military.

I have said it multiple times here.  I do not condone Stacks actions.  I do not consider him a domestic terrorist.  I consider him to be a person who was unhinged. 

My message is that I believe there are hundreds of potential "wack jobs" living under pressure in our society, who are one breathe away from loosing it.

 

Feb 19, 2010 10:22 PM #31
Rainmaker
830,902
Broker Nick
South Florida Real Estate & Development, Inc. - Coconut Creek, FL
Broker Nick Relocation Broker Service

Bonnie - You know I love ya - but flying a plane into any building with the intent to kill innocent civilians is an act of terrorism -

Feb 21, 2010 02:07 AM #32
Rainmaker
600,850
Mitchell J Hall
Compass - Manhattan, NY
Lic Associate RE Broker - Manhattan & Brooklyn

Bonnie, I believe flying a plane into a building is an act of terrorism. Having said that, I understand how deep frustrations caused by the IRS can be. In 1992 I had a friend and colleague commit suicide. She jumped out of her apartment window on Sutton Place to put an end to her harassment from the IRS.

Her IRS troubles were unknown to me and her many friends and family who could have and would have helped her. We shared a client and were working on a project together. I handled sales and marketing and she handled PR and publicity. She didn't have her own fax machine and would always come over to use my fax.

A few days before she killed herself while she was using my fax I said "You know you should probably get your own fax machine they're only $99". When i heard the news that she took her life and it was over $3000 owed to the IRS I felt terribly guilty for telling her to buy her own fax. She was the last person I would have expected to have financial problems.

You can't judge a book by it's cover. She put up a great front. Always dressed professionally, never casual, always looked like she just came from the beauty parlor and had a beautiful apartment on exclusive Sutton Place. I wish I could have helped her. I had no idea, she had too much pride to share her dilemma. She unfortunately chose a permanent solution to a temporary problem.  

Feb 25, 2010 03:29 AM #33
Anonymous
John Gobin Shaw

Joe Stack was a tuned in guy who leveled the karma of the Internal Revenue Service. The others denounce his actions because they do not have the guts to fight government. Sure, they may join a U.S. gangland army, and slaughter women and children in the Middle East and central Amerika, but when it comes to fighting back where it counts, in their own country, they fade away into the shadows and make noises like barking dogs as events pass them by. When a large power monopolizng organization starts screwing with your life, and there are no legal recourses for screwing back with them, one must become a willing doormat or one can take up arms against a sea of troubles and end it. The fact is, Amerika is a nation of zombie sheep where only a few stand alone against the all consuming leviathan. Politics and running governments have always been dangerous trades. 9-11, Waco, and Joe Stack in Austin are only a few of the many thousands of attacks carried out against governments and their agents around the world. I tend to agree with Joe Stack's estimation of lost freedoms and emploitation of others by power monopolizing organizations. rememer, the worst violators of human rights by far have always been the big power groups, e.g., governments, police forces, militaries, and religiouis organizations. I think corporations are on the list too.

Mar 01, 2010 03:50 AM #34
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

Nick and Mitchell,  You guys think I condone his actions.  I do not.  I can see where a person can be pushed to do that which is incomprehensible to others. 

Stark took sucide which is usually a private thing and made it a public event.

I'm trying to warn everyone that he may not be an isolated case.  As more and more Americans reach their "wits end", you may see more actions like this.

If we know people who are depressed and in dire financial circumstances - we should reach out instead of turning a blind eye.

Mar 03, 2010 05:57 AM #35
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

John,  Stack had the option of hiring a Tax Attorney and suing IRS.  Thousands of Americans do it every day and succeed.  Instead of buying a plane he should have used his money to pay an attorney to get IRS off his back once and for all.

Americans are not sheep.  They may appear to be passive, but I do not believe that will last long.  Ordinary citizens who were farmers or merchants rose up and delivered to us a Free country. 

I certainly disagree when you stated:

"Sure, they may join a U.S. gangland army, and slaughter women and children in the Middle East"

How dare you label our military to be ruthless killers.  I'll wager you never stood up and fought for anything in your life.  You are long on criticism but short on solution.

Mar 03, 2010 06:10 AM #36
Anonymous
John Gobin Shaw

Oh no. We certainly don't want to label anyone anything like that. Not with a million non-combatant civilians in Vietnam slaughtered, many burned alive, women, children, babies by your heroes. And not with US support of the most brutal terrorist regimes in Central and South America. Sure, the fact of the US Navy's part in the slaughter of some 200,000 landless peasants in Indonesia means they are saints? Imposing sanctions in Iraq that contributed to the hardship deaths of maybe 500,000 children means what then? There are many examples proving the United States in a terrorist regime.

In every country of the world governments have run riot with power. Even in the Soviet Union whose government exterminated between 8 and 12 million of their own people, that government had supporters, civilians, police, militaries without whose active support such atrocities against human rights could never have been achieved. Same in Germany, Cambodia,and with the human slaughters in Africa and the former Yugoslavia. There have always been and will always be people who support their governments no matter what they do so long as those supporters are secure those horrors will never intrude upon their own lives.

Without question, the most horrific and severe violators of human rights throughout history have been governments, militaries, police forces, and religious organizations. And in every country there have been supporters of these organizations who aided and were complicit in their terrorist actions.,

May 04, 2010 07:07 AM #37
Anonymous
Iconography lof the biblical scenes at St. Nicholas Church, Ipsw

In fact, I had been well aware of the coming attacks of Sepember 11, 2001 since 1997, and told about 130 people, many in detail, what would happen, but mostly to be ignored and reviled. You murdering bastards might have others deceived as to your true motives, but I see you for what you are, and you got what you had coming on 9-11. And I have news for you. There are people out there who intend to nuke your city. Believe me. You are going to be sorry. You just wait and see.

Florida, the baby attacking, child torturing, kidnapping state. Five hits from hurricanes in one season. Now a massive oil spill gravitating to a vortex in the Gulf of Mexico to carry it to the criminal peninsula's sandy shores. The bastards can choke on it as far as I care.

If they knew what were coming in a while, they would abandon the state. 

May 19, 2010 12:04 PM #38
Anonymous
John Gobin Shaw

Two others and I met Tim McVeigh in the Original Donut Company in Stuart, Florida in 1994. He sure told me about building a fertilizer bomb, and he insisted repeatedly they were going to attack government. He did not menton anything about Oklahoma; however, it is possible smebody else did mention something to do with Oklahoma. McVeigh's mother lived about 15 miles from that donut shop / cafe. He told a reporter in 1994 that something big was going to happen in Oklahoma. He had someone with him who seemed to know about the plans.

May 27, 2010 06:25 AM #39
Anonymous
John Gobin Shaw

Our vortex has arrived, good old hurricane Alex, but it is way too far from the oil slick's main body to really drench Florida's tourist covered shores.

Jun 30, 2010 04:48 PM #40
Rainmaker
244,734
Bonnie Vaughan
Scranton, PA
CNE SFR - Buyers/Sellers - Lackawanna & Surroundin

John:  If you are such a malcontent and hate our country and what we stand for so badly - GET OUT!!!

Jul 24, 2010 02:43 PM #41
Anonymous
John Gobin Shaw

As usual you do not speak to the issues raised, but only to the person. You support the world's leading terrorist state, and are content with that because unlike other countries that systematically slaughtered their own citizens, your country murders only in other countries. You are safe, right? Wrong.

Aug 15, 2010 01:11 PM #42
Anonymous
John Gobin Shaw

Joe Stack was right on. He hit the nail right on the head with his comments about writing letters and contacting government, but only to be treated as though he and his concerns were meaningless to them. I had exactly the same kinds of experieces myself. One main example was related to events in the U.S. army in Europe in the early 1980s. To make a much longer story shorter, two self-admitted terrorists, John P. Vogel and Specialist  Stavrinakis, in the army who were connected with terrorist cells in Europe made a long series of felony, terrorist threats that were quite specifically worded, and afterwards 104 people were killed and 265 were  injured in one 24-hour period in two incidents in train stations in Europe in Ireland August 1, 1980 and in Bologna August 2, 1980. The Irish incident of which I am a survivor was billed an accident, and the Italian killing was executed by a powerful explosion, but as I said, the preceding theats were quite explicit, and specified that one incident would be made to look accidental, and another would be an obvious terrorist event. The threats were much more detailed than I am telling you here. The point is I wrote to newspapers, senators, congressmen, the white house, FBI, CIA, secret service, magazines, governors, foreign governments and newspapers and more. What good did it do? They did nothinbg so far as I was able to ascertain.

In 1997 I managed to obtain to some pretty good detailed information about the-then coming attacks in Washington and New York on September 11, 2001. For four years before the  attacks were committed I told about 130 people in varying levels of detail what I had discovered. Many times I named the WTC, the pentagon, and the Capitol building in Washington as the main targets. I explained about the commandeered, fuel-laden, aircraft and people from Saudi Arabia, and the approximate time of the attacks. Certainly I contacted responsible authorities in law enforcement in three countries including in Florida. For the most part they ignored me, insulted me, and treated me as though I and what I had to say were meaningless and not to be regarded as worthy of recognition.

After the attacks I began telling people I had known they were going to happen, but only to be attacked, denied, libeled, slandered, and accused, and nobody even asked to see any proof or evidence or even offered hear my story. In short, Amerikan society were rewarding their political liars and suppressing the truth for their own sociopathic agendas. Of course, I wrote letters again to various authorities, but only to be ignored. There have been threats against my children and me, and there have been several acts of organized, criminal-gang, stalking against myself, and where is the government function that protects against such abuses? Nowhere that I know of, or perhaps complicit in the offences.

This is not to say Joe Stack did the right thing, but it is to say what he did is understandable. You work and you make honest efforts to live right and be peaceful. You pay your taxes for services you expect to have when needed. Then, when obvious offences against you compell you to go to government for the services they are sworn to provide they treat you like you and your complaints are worthless. I happen to know I knew enough detailed information pertaining to the attacks of 9-11-01 that the attacks could have been prevented from happening at all had that information been heeded, and if a few simple steps had been taken.

There are always those who will say you could have done more and this and that, but they are probably people who have not had to deal with this arrogant, too rich, bureaucratic, ignorant governmeht in the USA. I add, the examples I mention here are only a few of many negative experiences I have had with government in which they refused to perform their functions. 9-11-01 was one consequence of their  intractible arrogance and negligence no matter how effective the corporate-driven mainstream media have been at disinformation and obfuscating the truth.

 

Sep 29, 2010 06:36 PM #43
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