Website lead - million dollar cash buyer? Not really - NEW SCAM WARNING

By
Real Estate Agent with RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate

Scam AlertI went into the back office section of my real estate website for St Cloud MNand found that the new buyer lead was from a person named Mr Hu Sang the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) CMEC LTD who would be relocating to Minnesota and was looking for a reliable real estate agent, found our firm and wanted to work with me to purchase his retirement home. The description of the home was very simple "I need a 2 or 4 bed room home or apartment of $500,000.00 USD - $1,000,000.00 in nice neighborhood in your location. The home will be a cash buy and I will fly to Minnesota for viewing the property but before that I would like my stock broker in Canada to send the money to your firm via a lawyer/solicitor" The email was longer with niceties but I am trying to get to the heart of the matter. I did chuckle as with home values in our area being what they are he could buy a LOT of home or an apartment complex in that price range.

There was contact information included to get in touch and begin the process of working with my new buyer. I happily emailed back and also let him know that after talking to our Office Administrator he had stated "a certified check for the funds should be sent, via Federal Express (or similar) to our offices, for deposit in RE/MAX Realty Source Trust Account. After funds are secured in the trust account they may be used for earnest money deposit at the time of an offer to purchase, home inspection fees, and purchase closing." 

The reply email is where it starts to get interesting: "I would like to inform you that my stock broker will be sending you a payment of $540,000.00 via UPS $300,000.00USD will be the down payment of the property. $240,000.00USD will be for the purchacse" of home furnishings (described in some detail) for the home. I was asked to update them after I had received the funds and they were available, and told that there would be a memorandum along with the funds to sign, and send back. I need to check with legal about using monies placed into the escrow account and then being given back, why not just keep the funds and only send me the check for $300,000, right?

Next I get an email from another person identified as the stock broker with a tracking number for the package. I am told "I have sent you a payment of $540,000.00 on behalf of Mr. Lee Chang this payment was sent by ups please update us once you have receive and deeposit the draft." See you caught it too, the name is wrong.

 Check for a new home

 We looked up the company Dominion Blueline and found that they are a printing company (I removed the account number just in case it is a real checking account). Also after checking with my broker and legal found that we can not give money out in this manner as it might be being laundered. Then I did a little more checking and found that banking laws are not the same in all countries, it is very easy to get burned with a deal like this, you deposit the money, within a few days it looks like the money is in the escrow account for your broker and yet in fact it is not, it can take up to 1 month or longer for funds to be transferred out to an American bank from Canada. We sent back several emails to get the person, if they were not a scammer, to send a new check for the exact amount of the down payment explaining that we could not give money back for the purpose of purchasing furniture and home accessories. We have never heard back.

I am posting this is now because we just tripped across a memo from Fidelity National Title Group sent out to local real estate offices on May 28, 2010 and I am sure that this is part of the same scam. The memo is titled Counterfeit Check Scam, they state that they have had eleven of their offices detect this scam recently and have had 2 attempts in Minnesota.

The pattern is the same:

  • All cash offer to purchase property
  • Selling broker/agent has never met the buyer
  • Buyers have not actually seen the property in person
  • The buyer is located outside of the country
  • The initial deposit check amount exceeds the required money necessary for the transaction
  • Excess funds are requested to be sent out to another business or person
  • The deposit check is drawn on a Canadian Bank or on Dover Federal Credit Union

This scam, if it works even once could do irreparable harm to an unsuspecting home seller and could also leave the agent and broker exposed to potential prosecution under federal money laundering statutes.  

Posted by

Steve Baklaich RE/MAX Results  www.stcloudareahomesforsale.com 

Cell:320-260-3290 Saint Cloud Minnesota Real EstateQR code to Google Places Page

my facebook page my outside blog Google 

If you are relocating to central Minnesota check out all the wonderful reasons to love St Cloud. It is a wonderful area full of things to do and lots of great houses. I would welcome the opportunity to help you find your perfect place here. Visit my St Cloud real estate website for more information about buying or selling a home, or property in the central Minnesota real estate market.

 

Comments (18)

Elizabeth Baklaich
Virtual Assistant to Steve Baklaich RE/MAX Realty Source MN - Saint Cloud, MN

I am so glad that you looked into this and caught the different names from the initial contact to the check being sent out and got advise from legal. 

 

Jun 08, 2010 04:07 PM
Adrien Bryant
Carrington Real Estate Services Inc. - Atlanta, GA
Realtor® & Lifestyle Consultant

Hello Steve,

I am so glad you posted this.  I was also contacted by a similar scammer.  However, to make it seem real, this person, Raymond Jackson wanted "a home in my area for $200,000 to $250,000".  A very realistic amount in my area. What this person did was email several agents with that request, I can tell it was several agents because it was not addressed to me.  I figured, ok, I'll put him in a daily search from the MLS and forget about it.  About a month later, he emailed me directly and said he found the house he wanted and gave me the mls number.  Stated that he was buying cash via his stockbroker (as you described).  He said to send the forms where he can "e-sign".  I told him I would send the forms but he would have to sign and scan them.  That his "downpayment" would need to be an "earnest money cashier check" for at least $3000.  He stated he would send $210,000.  He would fly to Atlanta June 20 to close.  I tracked his email address to Austrailia.  I sent the forms and he signed, scanned, and sent back to me.  I called my Broker Support to see if they have heard of this.  I sent the forms to the listing agent and explained lets not spend much time on this until this guy "Shows us the Money".  I told Mr. Jackson that we need an earnest money check to seal the deal.  I also asked if he would be making other offers, he said yes, why do I ask?

That was the last week of May.  Have not heard from him since.

Jun 08, 2010 04:16 PM
FN LN
Toronto, ON

There are a number of techniques that can be used to help determine if documents that are supposedly from Canada make sense.

Jun 08, 2010 05:27 PM
Steve Baklaich
RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate - Saint Cloud, MN
Treating Buyers & Sellers to Full Service Always.

Adrien: So you never even received a check? interesting, you would think that follow through would be important, but maybe they have just decided that if there is any resistance it is just easier to move on to the next agent who will just go along with their deal.

Marc: I am not familiar with these techniques, would you please share any useful/helpful information with us. The information I was given about the time delays came from 2 major banks in my area. After being told by one bank that it was possible for the money to look like it was transferred into the account when in fact it was not, I then called another bank and found they had the same information, these are both US banks. I would welcome more information from someone who is familiar with the Canadian banking system.

Jun 09, 2010 03:28 AM
Marchel Peterson
Results Realty - Spring, TX
Spring TX Real Estate E-Pro

Thanks for sharing it does sound very similar.  Thank goodness we had a good attorney watching out for our end.  That's the weird part why would he want an attorney unless of course he was trying to scam the attorney.

Jun 09, 2010 10:07 AM
Dee Mayers
Covina, CA
San Gabriel Valley, CA

If you suspect that it is a scam, they all have the same verbiage, Google it first. 

Jun 09, 2010 02:34 PM
Steve Baklaich
RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate - Saint Cloud, MN
Treating Buyers & Sellers to Full Service Always.

Marchel: I wanted to post a link to your blog here, do you know if that would work as your post is members only and this one is for public? I have not run into this before, but I thought that it would be good to have others see your post too. Trying to scam an attorney, hummmm, either brave, stupid, far away or all of the above.

Jun 09, 2010 02:38 PM
Steve Baklaich
RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate - Saint Cloud, MN
Treating Buyers & Sellers to Full Service Always.

Real estate scam = Advanced search About 16,600,000 results (0.27 seconds) 

Dee: It is a nice idea but when it is a new scam there might not be anything listed on the internet yet to find, plus how many hours could you spend searching to try to locate specifically what you are looking for? or even coming up with just the right search term?

I wanted to share this with the community, I would rather see multiple postings from others who are helping make all of us aware than see one scammer take from another person.

Jun 10, 2010 09:39 AM
Dee Mayers
Covina, CA
San Gabriel Valley, CA

Steve,
The search term should be the scammer's name.  I did a search on Hu Sang, and his 'name' is associated with a scam.   Yes if its a new scam it maybe hard to find but more often than not, the scammer is using the same name and it doesn't hurt to start with a search, saves you time.

I say this because I've been served the same letter different name.  I googled it, saw it was a scam and deleted it.  Thanks for sharing it keeps us abreast of the fraud.

Jun 10, 2010 01:15 PM
Steve Baklaich
RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate - Saint Cloud, MN
Treating Buyers & Sellers to Full Service Always.

Dee: Thank you, I never thought about searching the name. I just figured that they would use different names, that is a great way to look! I am going to go and search the name now as I am very curious to know what is out there online. 

Jun 10, 2010 01:44 PM
Anonymous
Adrien McMackins

Update: I did receive a check in my inbox.  It is from Toronto, Canada and made out to my agency for $288,911.14.  The price of the house is $249,000.  So as the scam goes, they made it out for more so they can receive a "refund".  Our top brass at my agency is on it.  But I'm going to do like you Steve and ask them to resend the check for the exact amount of the house. 

For future reference everyone, my scammer's name is Raymond Jackson.  Which is a popular American name, well hidden in any google search.  When typing Raymond Jackson Scam, a judge comes up in Texas.  The check has BB&T on it (a larger bank chain in Georgia), issuing branch is Lake Norman - Northcross.  Purchaser is BGC Partners.

This scammer has done some homework in Georgia.

Jun 12, 2010 05:09 AM
#11
Steve Baklaich
RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate - Saint Cloud, MN
Treating Buyers & Sellers to Full Service Always.

Adrien: Thank you for the update, I would be very interested to hear if there is further communication from this buyer. There are occasionally deals that will be done similar to this scam. A few years ago I had a very nice listing of a home that was completely handicap accessible and the other agent who was representing the buyers was dealing with them via the internet, the deal did close and they are very nice people who are in fact living in the home. There were not any funds sent ahead of time only a simple earnest money check. You might want to check out the posting from Marchel Peterson too, and again thanks for the update!

Jun 12, 2010 05:54 AM
Adrien Bryant
Carrington Real Estate Services Inc. - Atlanta, GA
Realtor® & Lifestyle Consultant

Hello Steve,

My agency took the check to BB&T and it is definately a fraudulent check.  There are some formal investigations now that he has asked for $39,000 and sent wiring information. 

Again, thank you thank you thank you so much for posting this.  If I have anyone moving your way, I will definately give you a call :-). 

Jun 18, 2010 07:16 AM
Steve Baklaich
RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate - Saint Cloud, MN
Treating Buyers & Sellers to Full Service Always.

Hi Adrien, I would love to know if anything comes from the formal investigations. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. My wife loves Ga, I have not gotten out there yet, and we are happy to have you as an associate for referrals too. Have a wonderful weekend!

Jun 18, 2010 10:54 AM
Robin Rogers
Robin Rogers, Silverbridge Realty, San Antonio, Texas - San Antonio, TX
CRS, TRC, MRP - Real Estate Investment Adviser

It's the old advance-fee scam that I posted about on Marchel's blog.

Michael Creel has a lot of older posts about these scams. He loves to play with the scammers and lead them on!

Cheers,

Robin

Jun 20, 2010 03:41 AM
Steve Baklaich
RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate - Saint Cloud, MN
Treating Buyers & Sellers to Full Service Always.

Robin, Thanks for the link I will check it out!

Jun 22, 2010 02:06 PM
Anonymous
Sean

I suspect that there is something not right about a situation I am facing currently.  I have a "buyer" who says he lives in Maine and wants to buy a home up to 1.5 million and will be paying cash for the home.  He says that he will be talking to the bank to move his "stocks" around.  After calling him a few times, I just don't get the sense that this is kosher.  In the meantime, I sent some properties to this buyer just to see what his reaction would be and he picked out a home with a list price of around 900,000.  I am not sure how to continue to approach this and want to be aware of what to look for.  Any suggestions?

Nov 11, 2010 05:07 PM
#17
Steve Baklaich
RE/MAX Results St Cloud Mn real estate - Saint Cloud, MN
Treating Buyers & Sellers to Full Service Always.

Sean: Out of state checks, and especially out of country, will take longer to clear the bank. Most of these scams involve the Buyer asking you to disperse those funds to other sources before they are "Proofed". So, you send your money to Miami or London, while waiting for the Buyers check to clear.

Since these amounts are usually in the tens of $thousands, these dispersals are often violations of money laundering laws (federal) and I would decline to do them even if the Buyer were known as ligitimate. I would suggest to this individual they hire an attorney.

Another twist is; they write a PA with a contingency and send you an EM  check for $50,000, which is deposited in trust. Buyer cancels, and demands the EM be refunded, immediately, under threat of leagl action, etc. If you write a PA with someone out of state/country, you may want to extend the time period for refunding Earnest Money, if it can be done in your state.

Recommend you consult legal counsel if you are unsure how to proceed. Iam not an attorney and this is not an attempt to give legal advice. I am just relating what little I have learned:)

Nov 12, 2010 05:31 AM

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