Special offer

Have Dummy... Need Answer

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408

There is something that I am fundamentally missing. Everybody else seems to understand how it works, and I keep pretending that I am with them… but I am not.

Maybe it is because I am an immigrant, and we tend to miss on something “American”… Or it is because I am in Real Estate in Florida since 1999, and everyone got smart before that…

I need economics 101 for dummies.dummy - Jon Zolsky blog

I remember how difficult it was to get a mortgage in mid 90s. I had 10.375% and to get it they wanted my firstborn child…

Then in 2003-2006 there was hardly anything easier than to get the mortgage.

- Are you still breathing? Can’t hear you? Ah?

Now we are back to square one. You gotta be so good, so good, that if you are really so good, you do not need a mortgage...

So that is how it was with the availability of money.

In mid 90s we were in a hole here in Florida. Prices were low, and the market was stagnant…

Then in late 90s some life started coming back and by 2003-2006 the market went berserk and buyers were competing for every piece of real estate with unreal price tag…

Now we firmly in a hole again, and looks like even way deeper. Today you can buy those crazy $600,000 homes of 2005 for cool $200,000 of 2010. Sorry, not “can” …You could’ve… but unless you are printing fresh cash in the basement, you would not… cause the money is tight.

Why is the money tight, when the properties are cheap, and there is little risk if any, and the money is freely flowing when the prices are crazy, and the cyclical Real Estate market is already spinning the wheels?

If people can find a modest house today for 20% less than what it would cost to build it, and their mortgage plus insurance is not more than their rent, give them 100% financing. Do not ask them if their great grandparents have lost their home back in Great Depression…

What are you standing to lose? Where is the risk? Oh yeah? Really? And it is a greater risk then when you were giving a hardly breathing person cool half million on the same home?

What am I missing here?

Am I dead wrong thinking that a lot of money in a speculative market is higher risk? When financing people paying over $1,000 per sq. ft., it was not too much risk. But buying a home when the price per sq. ft. is less than $100 is risky? Where the heck is the risk? The Builder would not be able to build for what you can buy.

Sorry, not “can”… could’ve if the lenders did not play smart and safe and keep blowing at water, that was boiling 5 years ago

* Image courtesy of net_efekt  via Flickr.com

Glenn Roberts
Retired - Seattle, WA

I know what you mean. Money is cheap at under 5% for home buyers...but try to get it. I've heard that Chase, (bought WAMU at big discount) is phone calling good customers offering incredible deals on refi's. Why? No risk but they are making money on properties that have equity and the borrowers have never missed a payment.

Jun 23, 2010 02:24 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Royce - Ah ha, it is not just economics, it is politics and economics...

But why it is necessarily politics and BAD economics?

Jun 23, 2010 02:39 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Deborah - the fact that their cycle of loosening and tightening goes contrary to the market is difficult to understand.

In the market we deal with crowd and preception. They buy when others buy. We understand, it is difficutl to overcome, it is deeply in us, humans. But Lenders are professionals. If they do not get the basic law of real estate: "By when everyone else is selling, hold to it and sell when everyone is buying", then how come they are in financing this very business.

Logically (for me) would be: "Lend freely when the prices are so low, and the risks are practically non-existenet, and tighten the flow of money, when everybody is buying and the prices are crazy"

Jun 23, 2010 02:45 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Tim - it puzzles me, too

Jun 23, 2010 02:46 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Harry - it surprises me that Banks lend on the "market confidence" and not the market values.

Jun 23, 2010 02:49 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Bill - maybe this is the best explanation. It just has little to do with the market and us.

Jun 23, 2010 02:52 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Kathryn - convincing people is hard, but one would think that professionals should not be just scared and wait for some heck knows which signs...

Jun 23, 2010 02:54 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Glenn - that's interesting.

I thought it was only natural that the lenders would finance the deals where you can't build for the same money,as in case of default it is still not under water (unless there is never a new construction), so disposition is not difficult...

Guess I am wrong

Jun 23, 2010 02:57 AM
Tim Maitski
Atlanta Communities Real Estate Brokerage - Atlanta, GA
Truth, Excellence and a Good Deal

When prices are going up in an inflating bubble market, it always seems like there is no risk because price appreciation will take care of any mistakes. Everyone thinks they'll get out before the music stops.  Therefore, the name of the game at that point is just do as much volume as possible and don't worry about risk because appreciation will take care of it.

When the bubble bursts and everyone comes to their senses, basic underwriting criteria have to be followed.  You have to worry about a person's ability to actually earn money to actually pay off the loan.  Appreciation can't bail you out.  Refinancing in the future won't bail you out.  People actually have to earn real money to pay down the loan. In this economy, the risk to a borrowers income stream is pretty big. 

If you had a million dollars of your own money to lend out right now, what would be your criteria?  I know I certainly wouldn't be lending my money out at only 5% and I would want at least 20% down.

Jun 23, 2010 03:22 PM
Lane Bailey
Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA
Realtor & Car Guy

Momentum.  When the market is rising, people and companies expect it to rise more.  Same when it is falling... 

Jun 23, 2010 04:51 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Tim - it is interesting as you put the emphasis on dynamics, not on values. Yes, it then changes the perspective. I did not think of it this way.

Thanks

Jun 23, 2010 05:32 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Lane - like Tim, you also look at it not from the point of values, but the timing

I did not expect it, interesting. Got to think about it.

But in your scenatio it makes sense, n mine, it didn't

Jun 23, 2010 05:34 PM
William Johnson
Retired - La Jolla, CA
Retired

Hi John, Bill A. said it best. "Heads we win, Tails you lose ".  No, you are not missing something. No you are not crazy. We used to live  in at least somewhat reasonable times. They are gone and there isn't much that makes sense today. And beware, if you happen find  the thing that does makes sense today, tomorrow it will change and not make sense any longer. We live in amazing times .

Jun 23, 2010 06:33 PM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

William - isn't it more and more becomes "virtual" world? Both in literal and metaphorical sense?

Jun 24, 2010 03:25 AM
Paul Warkow
Paul Warkow-D.G. Weber Law Associates - Hauppauge, NY

I work for a mortgage banker and I tend to look at it practically.  There has been a tightening of underwriting criteria to be sure, but we are still approving mortgage applications.  The biggest obstacle is time.  With HVCC and the new disclosure rules, it lengthens and complicates the approval process.

Jun 24, 2010 10:04 AM
Lane Bailey
Century 21 Results Realty - Suwanee, GA
Realtor & Car Guy

Jon, the values are irrelevent.  When prices are rising, people think they will continue to rise forever.  When they are falling, people think they will fall forever...  And then somebody breaks the cycle... bubble bursts or the buying tide is unleashed. 

It isn't about the value, but the perception.

Jun 24, 2010 03:20 PM
Debbie Walsh
SHAHAR Management - Middletown, NY
Hudson Valley NY Real Estate 845.283-3036

Jon I agree with you and find mortgage decisions at this current time so frustrating.  I have a client trying to refinance right now (to lower his rate) who has been denied because the bank's appraiser drove by and said the house is not worth re-financing.  Now I know this house and from outside the place looks beautiful.  Inside is just as nice.  Since when are these decisions made final by a simple drive by?  I also know the value by comps and what he owes on his mortgage. 

Jun 26, 2010 08:54 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Paul - I am not arguing with that. I am just curious that when it is dangerously boiling, the lenders have no fear. When those who risked have already burned themselves, now the lenders are blowing at water to make sure it is not boiling. It has not been for some time.

The shift in timing is weird

Jun 26, 2010 09:56 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Lane - I see your point and it explains a lot, thanks

Jun 26, 2010 09:57 AM
Jon Zolsky, Daytona Beach, FL
Daytona Condo Realty, 386-405-4408 - Daytona Beach, FL
Buy Daytona condos for heavenly good prices

Debra - these things are always personal. If  the  lender is tightening the criteria, they simply want less business, and there is hardly you can do. You can't force them to  give the money, and in the upside down market it is happening all the time

Jun 26, 2010 09:59 AM