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A Dishonest Seller and a Listing that Didn't Happen

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Real Estate Broker/Owner

I received a referral from an agent in another state several months ago.  I really love referral and was glad that this agent chose to call me.  She has a relative in my area who needs to sell a property and could I talk to her relative.  Certainly. So I call this relative and no return call.  I email this relative and a couple of days later i get an email.  I am asked to go pick up the keys to the apartment and check things out which I gladly do.

When I finally got to meet this referral we sat at the dining room table.  We talked.  We talked about the comparables. This seller had bought the property two years.  There is a lot of inventory and prices are down slightly.  I told this seller what I believed the property was worth.  

 

We discussed the measurements of the apartment.  The owner believed that she had purchased about 1000 sq ft two years ago.  The previous listing said the square footage was around 950.  We measured the apartment and we came up with about 850 sq ft.  Now comes the problem.  This owner did not want to take a loss.  She had paid $250,000 two years ago and wanted to list it at $280,000 now.  This is a one bedroom/one bath with unrenovated kitchen and bath in a very good location.

 

The ethical dilemna for me was that this owner did not want to put the measured square footage we did on the listing.  She wanted to show a larger apartment than it actually was so that she could possibly get a higher price.  This seller had to list with another agent and one that was sloppy and would not measure the apartment, an agent who would just copy the information from the old listing.

When the appraiser comes in and measures the apartment i am not sure what this owner will do as this is a waste of time to sell with incorrect measurements.  Most buyers do not measure an apartment before they buy it but if a buyer finds out the square footage is wrong will get angry.  Buyers often arrive at the price they want to pay based on price/square foot.

I am keeping an eye on this apartment as I am curious what will happen.  Will this seller get her price?  This is a good example of why a buyers agent is necessary.  A buyer should measure the apartment, should check previous sales and be cognizant of market conditions when arriving at a price they are willing to pay.

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New Orleans Property Lady, LLC

Broker/Owner and REALTOR (r) 

New Orleans, LA 70125

504-908-2268 (C)            

 Licensed in the State of Louisiana, USA

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Copyright 2012, Miriam Bernstein, All Rights Reserved

Michelle Plumb
Coldwell Banker Ocean Beach Properties - Ocean Shores, WA

I commend you on sticking to your guns you are doing right by your reputation. In Washington a majority of us use the county records and then disclose that information. I find it facinating how each state is different. It reminds me of the credit card machines that are different at every store.

Sep 04, 2010 01:09 PM
Fred Griffin Florida Real Estate
Fred Griffin Real Estate - Tallahassee, FL
Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker

Misrepresentation of Square Feet is a great way to wind up in a Lawsuit.

You did the right thing, Miriam.

 

 

Sep 04, 2010 01:15 PM
Maureen Fukumoto
Help-U-Sell Realty Pro - Mililani, HI
Maureen

We don't generally measure here, the info is available at the City's Building Dept which is now online.   The difference between the previous 850 measurement and your 950 could be due to the prior listing agent measuring from the outside walls and you measuring from the inside.

Sep 04, 2010 01:18 PM
Judy Jennings
Top Agent Plus - Middleboro, MA
Tap into Judy's real estate expertise & resources.

Miriam - Our square footage is usually obtained through public records, but room dimensions can vary significantly as you can only place rounded numbers in our MLS.... that has ALWAYS been a pet peeve of mine. When I list the room dimensions, I always put in a disclosure that room sizes are rounded and must be verified by buyer.  Being dishonest about the square footage could cost the seller or listing agent a law suit in some areas. Not worth it if you ask me.

Sep 04, 2010 02:10 PM
Cindy Jones
Integrity Real Estate Group - Woodbridge, VA
Pentagon, Fort Belvoir & Quantico Real Estate News

We don't sell homes by square footage.  Our tax records have a number for SF but honestly if it is an older home with an addition the SF is usually wrong.  We sell by bedrooms & bathrooms as the key factors for whether the property is the right fit for the buyer.

Sep 04, 2010 02:25 PM
Jennifer Fivelsdal
JFIVE Home Realty LLC | 845-758-6842|162 Deer Run Rd Red Hook NY 12571 - Rhinebeck, NY
Mid Hudson Valley real estate connection

Miriam if the seller knowly refuses to use the correct square footage then walking away is the right thing to do.  It is better to be under than over estimate, buyers have actually sued over this. 

Sep 04, 2010 02:29 PM
Kaera Mims
Liz Moore & Associates - Fort Monroe, VA
Associate Broker, e-PRO, REALTOR; Hampton, Newport News, York Co.

Great decision - really the only one that a good Realtor could make. At least you were able to catch it before you were in the middle of a tricky situation and your reputation might be tainted if they thought you knew. Much success to you...

Sep 04, 2010 02:31 PM
Gary Woltal
Keller Williams Realty - Flower Mound, TX
Assoc. Broker Realtor SFR Dallas Ft. Worth

Miriam, run away from dishonest sellers, as they are not creating a win win situation.

Sep 04, 2010 02:36 PM
Graziella Bruner
NCS Premier Real Estate - Detroit, MI
Associate Broker - Serving Wayne & Oakland County

Great decision and it is about your ethics and morals - I walk away from dishonest sellers and buyers.  Nothing worse then getting caught up in some mess.  Wishing you must success!

Sep 04, 2010 04:06 PM
Aaron Vaughn 830-358-0455
Conifer Builders LLC - Canyon Lake, TX

Miriam: I have to wonder why on earth you would measure the unit yourself. Never gonna happen here; we have tax records for that info. Do you really want to be liable for that?

Sep 04, 2010 04:58 PM
Bryan Robertson
Los Altos, CA

Accurate measurements are important but it can go both ways.  I had a listing that showed at 2944 s.f. in the county records but an independent appraisal said it was 3326.  Because the house was bulk loaded into the county records as part of a new subdivision it was inaccurate.  I was able to get higher offers because my clients could offer proof the house was larger.

In the case of the seller you ran across, it's a good thing you didn't work with them.  It could have been difficult for you to explain the discrepency.

Sep 04, 2010 05:25 PM
Shari Evans
Better Properties Washington - Port Orchard, WA
Moments Like These

Up here, we typically use the tax records but I feel the winds of change a blowin. Our new system has the ability to show room sized and as we all know, the more information the better!

Of course, only ACCURATE information!

Hopefully my lil infrared measurer will be accurate :/

Shari

Sep 04, 2010 05:52 PM
FN LN
Toronto, ON

Miriam - In my area, measurements are optional.  The actual square footage can be entered in the comments.  In the square footage field, one of several ranges can be selected.

Sep 04, 2010 05:58 PM
Joetta Fort
The DiGiorgio Group - Arvada, CO
Independent Broker, Homes Denver to Boulder

We don't measure here, but do use info from public records, then have everyone sign a disclosure that we are providing measurements that we didn't measure for ourselves.  Seems kind of psychotic some times.

Sep 04, 2010 06:54 PM
Miriam Bernstei
Rochester, NY

Aaron - I didn't want to measure it myself but as we sat there the seller wanted to verify the square footage because she didn't want to use the number on the old listing.  She believed it was larger than stated and found out it was smaller.

Sep 04, 2010 07:55 PM
Miriam Bernstei
Rochester, NY

Michelle thank you. I would like to think that most agents would have done the same.

Joetta, think a disclosure is a smart thing.  buyer can't say they didn't know.

Marc, it is so different everywhere

Shari, hope your little infra red is accurate too

Bryan, I couldn't explain it thats the problem

Graziella, thanks and to you too

Gary, I'm running

Kaera, yes thanks

Sep 04, 2010 08:17 PM
Jesse Skolkin
Independent New York State Certified Real Estate Appraiser - Fresh Meadows, NY

Miriam:

I would guess that 50-75% of condo listings in the markets I cover are overstate the gross living area(GLA), and about 0% are understated.  There can be several reasons for this.  In some cases, the GLA is taken from public records, which in newer construction is taken from the condo declaration.  The builder or sponsor may utilize different methods to calculate the GLA than an appraiser.  The appraiser is required to measure the interior perimeter.  The builder or sponsor may calculate the GLA by measuring the subject unit to the midpoint of the walls, or might include such things as below grade space and/or the subject's portion of common space.  It may result from differences between plans and on site construction changes.  In some cases, it appears to just be an intentional overstatement.

Sep 05, 2010 12:47 AM
David O'Doherty
Clayton, NC
Clayton NC Homes, Raleigh, NC

Yes run, you get the slap in this case.

Sep 05, 2010 01:28 AM
Eric Bouler
Gardner Realtors, Licensed in La. - New Orleans, LA
Listening to your Needs

I measure 100% of the homes I list. I even measure some for the buyers just to make sure. I seen appraisers and agents miss by hundreds of feet.

Jesse, On condos he is right about those measurements. The developers numbers here are understated as they measure differently. The plans generally say they are smaller so its better to use the appraisers numbers.  You do have to say where the numbers had come from on the disclosures in Louisiana. Be glad we are different.........

Sep 05, 2010 11:05 AM
Miriam Bernstei
Rochester, NY

Eric you are not so different.  We had to disclose where the numbers came from as well in my previous state.  The issues came up with new construction and adjustments during construction not being measured or in my case a seller who measured the interior floor space of the kitchen closet and an indentation in the bookcase that used some floor space.  Jesse I am from New York and you are of course correct.  Another problem is that agents are notoriously bad at taking measurements and then doing the math.  It isn't taught and there aren't any rules standardiizing this.  By the way

Dave, yes square footage is a hugh issue and is very litigiious.

Sep 05, 2010 02:10 PM