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Today the Tables Were Turned ~ Rebate or not to rebate?

By
Real Estate Broker/Owner with Preferred Home Brokers 00402040

A few days ago I wrote a post on what I expected of rebate agents representing buyers during the transaction, Rebate Agents Please Take Note.  It was not my intentioned, yet it did turn into a rant of sorts. Bottom line, I  wanted them to do their portion of the transaction, plain and simple. They do their side actually representing the buyer, meaning more than just writing the contract. In that post, I also identified what they could expect of me as the seller's agent.

Well today the tables were turned with a phone call this a.m. I received a voice mail from a woman saying she found me on the Internet and saw that I was a Realtor with a lot of experience.  She asked if I would be interested in representing them. Initially I wasn't sure if it was a buyer, seller (or both) type of call.

Upon returning the call she told me they had just moved from Missouri to California and were looking to buy a home. In fact they had already found one they wanted to buy. She said they were well qualified, high FICO's and were pre-approved, so the financing was in place.  They were looking for representation from an experienced Realtor (she did not use the term agent) who would represent them and rebate a percentage of the commission. She said there was little to do, they had already negotiated the price.

As the dialogue continued she explained they had previously seen the property with the listing agent and in fact the listing agent was willing to rebate 2% of the commission (to them as buyers) if they used him for the purchase, but would not make any concession if they brought in their own agent. Their issue, they didn't trust that this agent would also be working for them. They wanted their own representative, but wanted two-thirds of the commission rebated.

My answer was NO, I was not interested for multiple reasons. Fortunately I didn't need to go through the list, the first one was enough. I questioned the fact they had already contacted the listing agent to view the property with the him, discussed price and terms, that sort of thing. I explained that there couldbe a potential cause of action for procuring cause from the listing agent and I wanted no part of it. They were astonished, they thought because they had not signed anything with him, that was o.k. The husband then took the phone (from his wife)and I explained generalities of procuring cause. The fact that it was not just one thing/event.  For example the mere introduction to the property would not be sufficient for p/c. I explained it was normally a chain of events and this may or may not be the case here, but I would not represent them as buyers in this situation. 

The buyer's husband asked then how they were supposed to see the property if it was not through the listing agent?  I explained that if they were not working with a specific Realtors right then, yet wanted to see the property and didcall the listing agent it would be advisable to explain they were interested, yet would be using their own Realtor in the event they wrote an offer  I suggested they ask if the listing agent would be willing to meet them on that basis.  I said they may or may not. They may suggest you call your own agent or they may be willing to go ahead and show home.  Now I know most of us who are sitting on listings would meet a buyer at the property under the circumstances, especially if the showing agent was unavailable. After all, isn't it in the best inter est of your seller?  Yet we would all appreciate knowing in advance the intentions of the buyers to use their own agent and this could also avoid the issue of procuring cause.

I explained that since this was not the case, I would not represent them. I didn't even need to get into the other reasons, the issue of ethics and the other Realtor was another.  Also the fact that I'm not a rebate agent. These buyers indicated I only need to write the offer, you and I know that's not the case. I am a full-service Realtor and nothing less. And besides, I only heard one side of this story, who knows what they did or didn't say to the other Realtor. I was thinking of Missy Caulk's post on the same subject, What would Simon Cowell do?  I wasn't about to take advantage of another Realtor in this situation. End of story.

 

 

Comments(62)

Jeff Dowler, CRS
eXp Realty of California, Inc. - Carlsbad, CA
The Southern California Relocation Dude

Lynda - missed this today since  wasout showing property ALL day, but glad I saw it tonight - you made the right decision, of course. Too bad they just didn't understand or appreciate the issues. IMO you have to maintain your integrity and be ethical...there is too much as risk otherwise.

Jeff

Sep 10, 2007 05:45 PM
Teri Eckholm
Boardman Realty - White Bear Lake, MN
REALTOR Serving Mpls/St Paul North & East Metro

Lynda--What is it with real estate in California? I just had a similar discussion with an interested party (not a client but family member) on a deal I have going....Can't give details as it fiduciary. But this interested party who are real estate investors from CA called in the middle of a particular deal demanding that I rip up my contract and rewrite with a different commission structure and rebate it to the buyer. In a word...NO! So then the wanted me to rip up the contract and cut my broker out...They would give me cash directly....NO, sorry not legal. After an hour of badgering and with my phone battery dying, they finally gave up.

People just don't seem to understand that representation is worth something. Take a look at the deductible on your E&O. There are times when the job is a bit easier but some of the transactions that appear easy on the surface can become nightmares quickly. Better to not sign a contract that feel underpaid.

Sep 11, 2007 01:36 AM
Lynda Eisenmann
Preferred Home Brokers - Brea, CA
Broker Associate ,CRS,GRI,SRES, Brea,CA, Orange Co

Darla ~ Thanks for the nice comment, I can't begin to let you know how much I've learned from others on AR.

Joanne ~ It seems like people do stupid things in the best and the worst markets. Those are the times we usually have more ethics complaints and arbitration filings at our association.

Sep 11, 2007 03:13 AM
Lynda Eisenmann
Preferred Home Brokers - Brea, CA
Broker Associate ,CRS,GRI,SRES, Brea,CA, Orange Co

Jeff ~ Thanks, like we've all said, what goes around, comes around.

Teri ~ Your comment about CA is interesting, and I'm sorry to say I'm not surprised. Last week I received an email from an acquaintance  (actually he's on my sphere list) someone I met years ago in our local chamber. He said he was selling his home himself and would deposit a payment directly into my checking account if I brought the buyer, in doing so cutting out the broker.  It appeared this email also went to other Realtors in the area. Not sure if he even realized it was not legal to do so. Funny part for me, is that I am the broker in the office.

Sep 11, 2007 03:31 AM
Jennifer Kirby
Kirby Fine Homes - Minneapolis, MN
The Luxury Agent
Great story! I wish I met more agents like you who are not willing to step all over someone else's shoes. You are exactly right, you have no idea what actually transpired with the listing agent. For all you know they could have made an offer and had it rejected. Two-thirds of your commission? You've got to be kidding me! Next! Sorry, but I don't dance for a commission.
Sep 11, 2007 03:34 AM
Lynda Eisenmann
Preferred Home Brokers - Brea, CA
Broker Associate ,CRS,GRI,SRES, Brea,CA, Orange Co
Jennifer ~ Thank you for the nice comment. I like your attitude!
Sep 11, 2007 03:57 AM
Anonymous
Teri Malone, Realtor, NJ

Thank goodness rebating is ILLEGAL in NJ.  One thought, though.  I wonder why the buyers didn't "trust" the listing agent?  I wonder if that distrust is/was a function of the buyers not being wholly trustworthy themselves?  Or maybe they DO realize all the work that a Realtor does to bring the transaction to closing and wondered why the listing Realtor was willing to give away part of her commission? 

I realy, really, dislike people who want something for nothing!

Sep 11, 2007 05:15 AM
#49
Anonymous
Teri Malone, Realtor, NJ

Thank goodness rebating is ILLEGAL in NJ.  One thought, though.  I wonder why the buyers didn't "trust" the listing agent?  I wonder if that distrust is/was a function of the buyers not being wholly trustworthy themselves?  Or maybe they DO realize all the work that a Realtor does to bring the transaction to closing and wondered why the listing Realtor was willing to give away part of her commission? 

I realy, really, dislike people who want something for nothing!

Sep 11, 2007 05:15 AM
#50
Lynda Eisenmann
Preferred Home Brokers - Brea, CA
Broker Associate ,CRS,GRI,SRES, Brea,CA, Orange Co

Teri ~ Illegal, now that's interesting. I had no idea. And "trust" is the word these buyers used, but you make a good point. Who knows what actually took place between the buyers and the listing agent. One think I have learned doing arbitrations and mediations for my local and state assoc. very often it's the consumer, the buyer or the seller that actually pits two agents against one another at times.

Thank you for your comment.

Sep 11, 2007 03:50 PM
Adam Brett
The Adam and Eric Group - Fullerton, CA
The Adam and Eric Group, Fullerton's Finest
Good for you.  I am in your market area and it is nice to know other agents operate with ethics.
Sep 11, 2007 03:58 PM
Anonymous
Agent

You guys have a big problem with rebate companies because it cuts into your pay, but you see nothing wrong with dual agency. You guys will double dip without so much as blinking an eye -- yet both buyer and seller suffer from this common practice. I say you all are hypocrites. Focus on your own issues before "defining" the buyers agents' duties. That is between the client and the agent.

Sep 12, 2007 09:09 AM
#53
Anonymous
Agent

When the market was red hot and properties sold in 2 days, did you return all that commission back to the seller? After all, you didn't earn the commission since you really didn't market the property.

You folks sure can point fingers at others before you clean up your own house.

Sep 12, 2007 09:24 AM
#54
Missy Caulk
Missy Caulk TEAM - Ann Arbor, MI
Savvy Realtor - Ann Arbor Real Estate
Linda, I am so sorry I am late to this post. Thank you for mentioning my post. Congratulations on the Gold Star. You did exactly as I would have done. I only had one client ask me for a rebate, he was a physician moving here from CA. As you said, End of Story.
Sep 12, 2007 12:40 PM
Rick Grand
nowhere - Eugene, OR
good for you Lynda, you definitely need to value yourself. I've seen clients do something similar when they FOUND the property. They asked me if I thought the agent would or should rebate their commission. I replied "Well, that really isn't for me to decide but finding a house isn't the only thing they are going to do for you so in my opinion that isn't really a reason to rebate commission. Plus, I don't negotiate my fees and I don't expect your agent to negotiate theirs" I ended up not doing her loan. Odd! and the agent ended up not being her agent. Some people are quite funny with what they want. 
Sep 13, 2007 04:15 AM
Lynda Eisenmann
Preferred Home Brokers - Brea, CA
Broker Associate ,CRS,GRI,SRES, Brea,CA, Orange Co

Mystery agent~ BTW, I commented yesterday, but had a glitch online, so I'm back now.  You commented on dual agency, that's not the topic here, or maybe you missed that. As for both parties suffering, give me break. As for defining agents duties, you bet I do if you're buyer is entering into a contract with a seller I'm representing. I don't' care for one moment what you charge or what you rebate, I only expect you to do your job period! As for what I charge in a hot or a slow market is between myself and my sellers, period! As long as I do my portion of the job. You're missing the point here, it's not all about what you charge, it's what you do and the value you bring to your consumer.

Missy ~ Glad to hear from you anything.

Ricky ~ I'm in agreement with your comment, thank you.

Sep 13, 2007 06:11 AM
Anonymous
Agent

"As for what I charge in a hot or a slow market is between myself and my sellers, period!"

LOL! That is a paradox! But your are defining a buyer's agent's role!

So, let's say a buyer's agent didn't meet YOUR standard, would you reduce the commission based on your interpretation of what you think the role of a buyer's agent should be? It would be tough to do this prior to closing, as a buyer would probably break up the deal. After all, the buyer's rebate will be affected. The buyer is the only one bringing money to closing.

You could do this in principle, but you would have one disappointed seller.

Sep 13, 2007 09:38 AM
#58
Anonymous
Agent

"As for defining agents duties, you bet I do if you're buyer is entering into a contract with a seller I'm representing."

However, if the buyer wasn't represented, you would care less. The buyer can fend for himself!

I hope I have given clarity to this hypocrisy.

Sep 13, 2007 09:46 AM
#59
Bill Gassett
RE/MAX Executive Realty - Hopkinton, MA
Metrowest Massachusetts Real Estate
Lynda - I commend you for your decision. Unfortunately, there are too many agents that think about the all mighty dollar and could care less that they had already been introduced to the home by the listing agent. As a matter of fact there are too many buyers that show so little regard to others time as they did with the listing agent.
Oct 21, 2007 08:25 AM
Lynda Eisenmann
Preferred Home Brokers - Brea, CA
Broker Associate ,CRS,GRI,SRES, Brea,CA, Orange Co

Hi Bill,

Thank you and I'm in complete agreement with you.

Oct 21, 2007 03:03 PM
Lanre-"THE REAL ESTATE FARMER" Folayan
Samson Properties - Bowie, MD
I don't make promises.I deliver results.SOLD HOMES
I highly commend you for your decision. They wanted 2/3 of the commission rebated? I wonder what do they consider 1/3 of work? For you to just write up the contract and give it to the listing agent? People are something I tell you. Great post professional realtor.
Nov 14, 2007 03:30 PM