You want my buyer to do what?

Real Estate Broker/Owner with Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC BK607690

Hi folks. I don't normally post two days in a row but this one's too good to not share.

This morning, I took my buyer back to the builder to do the contract for her purchase. This particular builder requires that buyers are pre-qualified through their preferred Lender who is on site. You don't have to close with them but you do have to qualify with them. They do this so they can remove the financing contingency from the contract.

Anyway, while our sales rep was preparing the contract my buyer and I had to go see the "mortgage momma" to get my buyer prequalified. Now folks, my buyer is a young lady and this is her first home purchase. She lives at home and over the last two years has had three different jobs. Two in her field of journalism and most currently working for her father in the family business as a marketing rep.

I guess the "mortgage momma" decided that "getting her through" would be a little difficult since my buyer hasn‘t had the same job for two years. Even though my buyer's credit scores are over 700 and she has a pretty good income. The "mortgage momma" did mention an FHA loan but thought it would be easier to just go conventional.

She then proceeded to "coach" my buyer by telling her to say she has worked for her father for two years. The kicker was to make sure dad confirmed it when they did the VOE (verification of employment) and to make sure he didn't mention that they were related. Then of course she gave us the cursory wink!!

In a nutshell, she was "coaching" my buyer on how to lie and commit mortgage fraud!!! And she did this with me sitting right there in front of her. I'm not sure she realized I was a Real Estate Broker, or she just didn't care and assumed I would just agree with her. After all, "Everyone does it".

Well, she was dead wrong! Broker Bryant don't play that crap! My buyer looked at me like "Why is she asking me to lie?" and I looked at the "mortgage momma" and told her that my buyer will not be committing mortgage fraud just to make her job easier. For some reason she seemed a little shocked!

We left "mortgage momma" and decided we would go a different way with the financing. If fraud is her normal way of doing business then doing business with her is out of the question.

I guess I need to write a letter to KB Homes on Monday to let them know their Countrywide "mortgage momma" is a disgrace to our profession. What's wrong with people? What do you think?

DISCLAIMER: I have no problem with KB Homes or Countrywide. BUT I have a serious problem with "mortgage momma".

EDIT: I have change the term "loan lady" to "mortgage momma". It seems there is a real Loan Lady in South Florida and she has politely asked me to make the change. This post in no way refers to the Loan Lady in Sarasota. 

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John MacArthur
Century 21 Redwood - Washington, DC
Licensed Maryland/DC Realtor, Metro DC Homes

Broker Bryant - You did understand. There are many agents that would have sat there and figured this must be the way it gets done. There are many borrowers that sat in that chair alone and assumed that if the representative for the lender was doing the coaching, it must be ok.

Mortgage momma should go to jail. To hell with a letter to the builder. Go to your local FBI office and give them the information with a written statement from you and your buyer.

If mortgage momma has mouthes to feed, all the better. Maybe her felony face on local t.v. will help other lender reps get it. Breaking the law and playing fast and footloose with the truth is part of the reason some people are in foreclosure.

God this irratates the devil out of me.

Sep 29, 2007 04:47 PM #65
Respect Realty LLC
Respect Realty LLC - Milwaukie, OR
Brokers - Oregon / SW Washington Real Estate
You are doing the right thing turning her in! She should be fired!
Sep 29, 2007 05:24 PM #66
William J. Archambault, Jr.
The Real Estate Investment Institute - Houston, TX


Welcome to the jungle. Watch where you walk.

These venomous animals are always with us. There is a lot you didn't talk about, but anyone with a 700 FICO, and a down payment of any size, should still be able to get any house she can afford. There is always more than one way! Why commit fraud when doing it right is easer?

TRW explained the biggest problem lender are having in the current debacle. Quote the Lady: "

Liar. Liar. Pants of fire..." we're all burning because of people like "mortgage momma!"


William J Archambault Jr

The Real Estate Investment Institute

First National Mortgage Sources

Sep 29, 2007 06:31 PM #67
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time

Kaye, This was certainly just another day at the office for this lady. I could tell it was her normal way of taking applications.

Bill, That all sounds well and good BUT there was no felony committed. But I will definitely bring it to the attention of her employer.

Tom, I know you hate this stuff. You're a good man.

John, Unfortunately you can't report something that didn't happen. A suggestion is not illegal. The act didn't take place because we left. 

Thanks for stopping by Todd.

Hi Bill, That was the part that really pissed me off. It's an EXCELLENT buyer. There is no need for her to lie about anything. It was just pure laziness on the MBs part.


Sep 30, 2007 01:23 AM #68
Matthew J Blum - (retired from the business)
Palm Beach Gardens, FL
BB, Holy BEEP.... Some people.. I would suggest you go this site. State of Florida. From their you can also file a complain with the state. Ohhhh what whas I thinking she worked for a direct lender and does need a license.  So really what can happen to her.. Maybe this is a good reason to make sure you work with someone who is Licensed.
Sep 30, 2007 03:19 AM #69
Irene Morales Ward
REMAX Distinctive Real Estate, Inc. - Stafford, VA
Realtor - e-Pro - Northern Virginia Real Estate
Boy BB - you and Lenn are on a roll!  I love this stuff!  I would love to see the builder's face when he realizes his "preferred lender" may have just cost him a sale!  Even if she were to go through with the purchase with her own lender, it's great to know you nailed her.  Every agent should realize the power of their presence and input when it comes to financing.  If I'm handing over a contract for presentation and I knowingly give a letter I know is full of CRAP, then I am an accomplish and a party to fraud - plain and simple.  Like you and Lenn, my license is NOT for sale!
Sep 30, 2007 03:32 AM #70
Jolynne Photography, Creative Wedding Photography, Family Portraits, Bar Mitzvahs
Jolynne Photography - Hemet, CA
Bat Mitzvahs, Senior Pictures, Event Photography

BB: You really struck a nerve. I began to leave a long comment, based on what Renee commented, from a mortgage guy's perspective but it was too long, so I'll post.  Thanks for bringing up this important topic.


Sep 30, 2007 05:26 AM #71
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time

Mathew, If someone works directly for Countrywide they don't have to licensed? I did not know that. That's not a good thing.

Irene, Great attitude. We owe it to ourselves and our customer/clients to stay clear of this crapola. 

Hi Joey, Come back and leave a link once your post.

Sep 30, 2007 07:28 AM #72
Jolynne Photography, Creative Wedding Photography, Family Portraits, Bar Mitzvahs
Jolynne Photography - Hemet, CA
Bat Mitzvahs, Senior Pictures, Event Photography

BB...Thanks for the permission.  I was just about to email you.  Here is a perspective from a home loan guy.

And, yes...many direct lenders, such as Patrion Mortgage (my company) and Countrywide, are licensed by the Department of Corporations, not the Department of Real the loan officers don't have to be licensed.  That DOESN'T mean there is no recourse...there's plenty.

Sep 30, 2007 08:54 AM #73
Marchel Peterson
Results Realty - Spring, TX
Spring TX Real Estate E-Pro
It sounds like your client would have been an ideal candidate for an FHA loan and it also sounds like this mortgage momma just did not want to go to the extra work.  It was easier to ask your client to lie.  Isn't that amazing!! 
Sep 30, 2007 02:44 PM #74
Thomas Weiss
Thomas R. Weiss - West Palm Beach, FL


I know this one hit a cord!! Idiots!!!! thats all I have to say.

Tom Weiss

Oct 01, 2007 03:31 AM #75
Bill Gassett
RE/MAX Executive Realty - Hopkinton, MA
Metrowest Massachusetts Real Estate
BB - A terrific example of the do what ever I can do to get "the deal" mentality. It is amazing that this stuff still happens on a daily basis. I am glad you are writing to Countrywide...somebody needs to step up and put a stop to this stuff. I wonder what Countrywide will do.
Oct 01, 2007 06:44 AM #76
Virginia Halter
RE/MAX Signature Properties - Harrisburg, NC
And asking the buyer out there in the open like that as if no one else knows that it is wrong!!  This is another reason buyers don't need to fly bllind into the home buying or building process. 
Oct 01, 2007 09:07 AM #77
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time

Marchell, She is perfect for FHA. You are right though. Too much work!!!

Thomas, That's really all that needs to be said.

Bill, It should be interesting to hear their response. I have a call in to the district supervisor for KB Homes. That's where I will start. 

Virginia, See was very discreet. She actually got up and closed the door to her office first. Didn't want anyone over hearing "our personal information". Of course that didn't seen to matter when she was taking the preliminary mortgage ap.

Oct 01, 2007 10:15 AM #78
Vicky Poe
Good Ole Rocky Top - Crossville, TN
Realtor/ Auctioneer
I don't make enough money to go to jail.
Oct 03, 2007 01:36 PM #79
Ed Vogt
Midwest Properties of Michigan - Grandville, MI
Grandville, MI Midwest Properties
Good thing you were there with your client.  The very first class I took when I got my RE license early last year was on mortgage fraud, with an FBI agent as the speaker.  The class and issue was and is so important that they're having it again this month.  They (the FBI) has also set up an 800 number to report these things.  
Oct 11, 2007 04:43 AM #80
Homes 4 Nothing Down
Homes 4 Nothing Down - Santa Monica, CA

I had the great displeasure of completing a couple of loans for folks purchasing through KB Homes ... and I won't even begin to tell you what they put us through. 

I read somewhere the KB Homes has more foreclosures (by a large chunk) for first time buyers then any other builder ... wish I could remember where I read that ...

Nov 23, 2007 04:16 PM #81
Bryant Tutas
Tutas Towne Realty, Inc and Garden Views Realty, LLC - Winter Garden, FL
Selling Florida one home at a time
Deirdre, I spoke to the district supervisors for KB and CW about this situation. Both said that this didn't happen and I must be mistaken. They truly did not care.
Nov 24, 2007 01:33 AM #82
Lola Audu
Lola Audu~Audu Real Estate~Grand Rapids, MI Real Estate - Grand Rapids, MI
Audu Real Estate~Grand Rapids, MI ~Welcome Home!
I missed this one first time around.  Glad to have the link from Lenn's post.  Wow!
Dec 31, 2007 12:34 PM #83
asdf zcxv
Keller Williams Realty - Ann Arbor, MI
Ann Arbor Area Real Estate
I'm glad I found this.  Thank you for writing it and making us all aware of what can happen.  Thank goodness you were there to advise your client and explain that we are NOT all like this.  Honesty is the norm not that person's way of doing business.
Jan 05, 2008 11:01 PM #84
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