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My Beef With Fiberglass Batts

By
Home Inspector with Structure Tech Home Inspections

Reuben's BeefFiberglass batts are a poor choice of insulation for most applications, yet this still seems to be the insulation of choice for most handy homeowners.  I'm been complaining about fiberglass batts for a while now, and for good reason.

Fiberglass batts are more expensive.  I stopped by the Maple Grove Home Depot and compared the prices of unfaced fiberglass batts, loose fill fiberglass, and cellulose.  Here's what I found:

$0.93 / square foot for R38 Fiberglass Batts

$0.56 / square foot for R38 Loose Fill Fiberglass

$0.30 / square foot for R38 Cellulose

Price Tag at Home DepotSide note:   Comparing prices at Home Depot was a pain in the butt.  Are they doing this on purpose?  The sign on the fiberglass batts said "That's only $0.93 sq. ft."   Yes, for R38... perfect.  But then the sign on a bag of loose fill fiberglass says "That's only $0.51 sq. ft."  FOR WHAT?  You have to get out a calculator and do a little math to figure out this is for R30.  What really drove me nuts was the sign for a bag of cellulose insulation, which said "That's only $0.15 sq. ft."  Again, FOR WHAT?  I got out my calculator, and determined that they're quoting the price for R19.  How are consumers supposed to make any reasonable comparisons when the three different prices per square foot are for three different depths?  These signs are worse than useless, they're misleading.

Fiberglass batts take more time to install. To be installed properly, fiberglass batts need to be painstakingly cut to fit the exact size of the space that they're supposed to fill.  Here are a few examples:

  • A 2x6 wall that has electrical wire running perpendicular to the studs;  should you push the insulation in front of or behind the wire, leaving a void in the insulation?  No.  You would need to cut the batt so it gets installed above and below the wire.
  • A 2x6 wall with electrical outlet boxes; should you stuff the insulation around it, leaving nasty gaps around the box?  No.  You would need to cut out a rectangle in the batt so it fits around the outlet box without being compressed, and you would need to install a thin piece of fiberglass behind the outlet box.
  • An attic with a bazillion electrical boxes, wires, pipes, truss chords, etc...; should you stuff the insulation around all of these obstructions, significantly reducing the insulation value?  No.  You would need to make a bazillion cuts and fits in the fiberglass batts to fill all of the gaps and voids.

The alternative to making all of these cuts and fits is to use something that fills in every little gap and void, such as loose fill fiberglass or cellulose in the attic, dense pack cellulose in walls, and spray foam at rim joists.  These methods take far less time.

Fiberglass batts are extremely difficult to install properly. As you read through the examples above, you were probably wondering who would ever take the time to actually do all of these things.  My experience has told me no one.I can't say fiberglass batts are impossible to install properly... but I have yet to find fiberglass batts installed properly in an attic.  All of the little voids that are left in fiberglass insulation equate to an exponential level of heat loss.  The photos below came from a five-year-old custom built home in Edina that I did a home inspection at.

Poorly installed fiberglass batts Poorly installed fiberglass batts 2

Poorly installed fiberglass batts 3 Poorly installed fiberglass batts 4

Fiberglass batts are itchy. I can touch the stuff with my hands and I'm fine, but once that stuff gets on my forearms, it's bad news.  My skin gets red, bumpy, and itchy.  Even if you're just walking on it, the fibers gets released in to the air and they float for a long time.  You're skin doesn't even need to make direct contact with it to be affected.  This makes fiberglass nasty stuff to work with or be around.

So why are fiberglass batts still used today? For small jobs, such as re-insulating a wall or two, it might not make sense to hire an insulation contractor to fill the walls with dense pack cellulose, and it's not cheap to have spray foam installed.  As for attics, again, there is no special equipment needed to install fiberglass batts.  To blow loose fill fiberglass or cellulose, a huge insulation blower and hoses are needed, so it turns in to a fairly big project.  It's far easier to buy a few rolls of insulation at the store, drive 'em home in your car, and roll them out in the attic.

If you have an upcoming insulation project, I suggest using something other than fiberglass batts.  In the near future, I'll write a blog discussing all of the alternatives to fiberglass batts.

Dennis Neal
RE/MAX, Big Bear - Big Bear Lake, CA
Your Home Sold in 21 Days or We Sell It For Free

I'm looking forward to your follow up. I've seen many poor installations of fiberglass bats.

Mar 23, 2011 09:57 PM
SentriLock Blogger
SentriLock, LLC - Cincinnati, OH

Rueben - Great information! I'll be tweeting/facebooking your blog out today.

Mar 24, 2011 01:48 AM
Dagny Eason
Dagny's Real Estate - Wilton, CT
Fairfield County CT, CDPE Homes For Sale and Condo

Thanks for the post!  I hate fiberglass, but don't want to spend for the other .....  Maybe it would pay for itself if I did, though...

Mar 24, 2011 03:46 AM
Gene Riemenschneider
Home Point Real Estate - Brentwood, CA
Turning Houses into Homes

Great post.  These are the kinds of articles I like to see at Active Rain.  A lot of retails are playing games wiht pricing - I am finding it harder to compare prices at the supermarket.

Mar 24, 2011 11:48 AM
Robert Courtney
Lihue, HI
Century 21 All Islands, RA, CDPE, MCRE, CIAS

Cellulose not installed correctly settles and leaves voids at the top.  Have used cellulose.  After it had been installie we had an electrical issue.  When we pulled the paneling there was about a 14 inch void at the ceiling.

Mar 24, 2011 03:11 PM
Jayson Hoffer
Jayson Hoffer Insurance Agency Inc. - Tempe, AZ
Mesa AZ 480-948-6115 Home, Auto, Life Insurance

congrats on the feature, great job!

Its a dirty job....

Mar 24, 2011 07:16 PM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

I love that Daily Drop :)   Thank you for reading, everyone!  

Dale - I think the pink panther is a good part of the reason that homeowners are so sure that fiberglass batts are the gold standard for attics.

Robert - can't your body develop allergies to anything?

Bobby - I totally agree with you about foam.

Dana - I started doing infrared scans this year, and I've found the same thing.  Batts are never installed properly.

George - you ask if a tight house can cause health problems?   Absolutely.  We now need to depend on mechanical ventilation to control air exchanges in the home.  This is where HRVs enter the picture.

David - Energy Complete looks like an option in-between air sealing with canned foam and full foam jobs; maybe we should call this the 'silver standard'.  This looks like a nice option.

Andrew - I'm huge on sealing attic air leaks (aka - attic bypasses).  I've seen so many attics with so much air leakage in the past few months that I've recommend complete removal of the existing insulation in many cases.  

In your note to George you mention an ERV; for anyone else not familiar with the terms, an ERV (Energy Recovery Ventilator) is similar to an HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilator), but it will also help to control moisture during the summer.  HRVs don't do this.

 

Mar 25, 2011 11:47 PM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

Ed - you wrote "How do you recommend insulating a home in the winter , so you can provide temporary heat so you can install the drywall without at least a nominal amount of F/G Batt in the ceiling ?"  I must be missing something here... because you can't.  The drywall needs to be installed before the insulation is installed.  How else could you seal up all of your attic bypasses?

That was a good discussion of the different types of insulation for different spaces.  I'd like to comment on all of them, but I'm also in the middle of writing a long blog discussing these different types of insulation.

For the record, the study conducted in 1991 showing that loose fill fiberglass is only good down to 20 degrees doesn't apply today.  Stay tuned, I'll have some good info on that.

I guess things might be different in your area, but here in Minnesota, I've found that the prices of closed cell and open cell foam insulation are pretty much identical. 

Thanks for reading, and thanks for the comments :)

Mar 26, 2011 12:14 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

Marshall - Interesting thought on foam, "let's charge a lot because we can."  I'll be sure to research that theory and get back to you on it.

Brad - I'll try to address the flame spread requirements of foam insulation when I write about it.

Jim O - I'm a fan of those blown-in batts too.  Good stuff.

Pete - I like the rigid stuff too.

Dagny - I'll have a follow up or two with alternatives to fibeglass.

Robert - A 14" void is bad news and shouldn't have happened.  I'd call that a bad installation (not a bad product).

Mar 26, 2011 12:18 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

The comments are just as interesting as the post. I of course agree with 125%. One other poor quality of fiberglass batts no one brought up was their thickness.

2 x 6 walls are actually 5.5 inches in depth. When a R-19 fiberglass batt, which is 6.25 inches thick, is putt into that wall cavity it is compressed by 3/4 of an inch. Which reduces the R value! That's a little detail that seems to escape discussion.

Another thing I would mention to all the spray foam advocates is that the stuff is highly flammable. I am mystified how it passes the fire rating.

Mar 26, 2011 02:57 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

James - I've gotta think the manufacturers of fiberglass batts make the batts just a little thicker on purpose and take that compression in to consideration when calculating the R-value, don't you?  I don't know that for a fact though.

As for the flammability thing... what I think you're saying is "Reuben, will you please take a blowtorch to a chunk of foam insulation and post a video in your next blog?"  No prob, James. 

Mar 26, 2011 02:35 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Reuben, The thickness has been an issue for years. They don't make it thicker to compensate for compression. In fact compressing fiberglass most certainly degrades the R value.

As for the foam insulation, there was a horrific fire in a night club out this way in 2003. Over 100 people killed. The fire spread very quickly and was in part blamed on foam insulation. This raw video is very disturbing, but you can see what happens when this stuff catches fire.

Mar 27, 2011 12:50 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

James - so why the heck don't they make the stuff 5 1/2" thick?

Also, we watched that video during a college course on commercial building plans inspections.  The focus was on not taking shortcuts and not permitting any changes to emergency egress.  You're right, that was a very disturbing video.

Mar 27, 2011 01:39 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

Btw, I don't think the stuff that caught fire in that video is the same stuff that gets used in houses for insulation.  

Mar 27, 2011 01:57 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Reuben, I've seen a video of an independent testing lab conducting fire testing on insulation. Foam insulation burns fast and with lots of thick black smoke just like in that video. as good as everyone says that stuff is, I would never put it in my house.

Mar 27, 2011 02:22 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

How old was the video?  I know it burns fast and gives off thick black smoke (which contains cyanide)... but maybe the newer generation of foams are formulated differently?  I don't know, just postulating.

Mar 27, 2011 02:57 AM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

I really don't know, but I can't believe anything has changed, except maybe the price.

Mar 27, 2011 03:17 AM
David Evans
RE/MAX TOWN AND COUNTRY - Cumming, GA
HUD NLB Cumming GA

Go Cellulose!!!!

Mar 30, 2011 08:18 AM
Wayne B. Pruner
Oregon First - Tigard, OR
Tigard Oregon Homes for Sale, Realtor, GRI

I sprayed two attics last fall with the blow in fiberglass stuff from Home Depot and it's not itchy at all. It's a different product that the fiberglass batts.

Apr 29, 2011 12:09 PM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

Tigard - I've heard the newer stuff isn't as bad.  No itch at all?  Nice.

May 01, 2011 02:24 PM