Digital Signature Controversy (sellers not accepting them)

By
Real Estate Agent with Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info DB-17066

I have loved doing e-signatures with my Tablet computer for over four years.  About a year ago, I started using digital signature overlays from various vendors.  Unfortunately, it looks like I will have to regress back to using a tablet PC version since even Fannie Mae recently reversed their acceptance of using digitial signatures.

I find it ironic that signing a tablet is a form of a digital signature, but it looks more like it was signed with ink (I can change colors in case the seller requires black or blue ink) so I have never had a problem getting these accepted.  That is stupid though because without the date stamp and control numbers tracking IP's etc,. it is worse for security than without them!  At least I can still try to reduce my paper consumption and ink on my printers and do my best to reduce my carbon footprint.

With gas topping $4 a gallon, I wish NAR would get behind this "GREEN" initiative and fight for it.  I am pretty sure that they collect royalties if you sign up with their "member benefit partner" - DocuSign.  With so many of my offers being made over the past year being on bank owned (REO) properties, I may have to stop my subscription to DocuSign so that I can start paying for gas again to track down signatures.

It is so archaic that someone will accept a fax (which someone could cut and paste a signature to with absolutely no tracking ability (excpet if you count the machine it was sent from (i.e. Fed Ex Kinko's?) instead of being able to track an email address and IP address where and when it was signed.  I don't know of a single clients that would ever share their email password with a Realtor so the Realtor could digitally sign their document for them) so the system is really secure.

Look how many other companies and industries are accepting digitatl signatures and for some reason the real estate industry is slow to adopt it.  
  • When you check in the hospital, they have you sign a tablet after showing you a laminated privacy statement or admitance paperwork
  • When you open a bank account, they have you sign their digital pad for their disclosures (these are some of the same banks that won't allow digital signatures on their REO's)
  • FedEx has used them forever to sign for packages
  • Your grocery store has you sign their display for your credit card
Please comment below on any lender that doesn't accept your contracts signed by e-signature so that hopefully NAR and the e-signature companies can help fight this battle to adopt technology that was approved by the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce act in June 2001.  http://www.ftc.gov/os/2001/06/esign7.htm

Comments (20)

Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

The two largest companies that I know that are rejecting digital signatures are:

  • Fannie Mae
  • HUD

May 18, 2011 07:30 AM
Victor Zuniga
Berkshire Hathaway Home Services California Properties - San Diego, CA

There are some cases dealing with e-signatures in court right now and I think until the outcome comes out there will be some hesitation on some financial institutions accepting them. Then again I find it ironic considering some of the things banks do.

May 18, 2011 09:05 AM
Joe Lane Richland
Kennewick Richland (and West) Pasco WA Homes For Sale - Richland, WA
WA Realtor, 509.438.9344 www.LaneRealEstateTeam.com

Sadly, we have some agents in our area that will not accept a digital signature.  Like the point you made above regarding the acceptance of fax sigs, these same agents will accept a faxed signature.  Yikes!

May 18, 2011 11:04 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

I was very impressed with Rick Triola, the President and CEO of Settleware who called me personally about this issue since they offer a Digital Signature product.  He wants to be part of the solution.

May 18, 2011 12:40 PM
Kasey & John Boles
Jon Gosche Real Estate, LLC - BoiseMeridianRealEstate.com - Boise, ID
Boise & Meridian, ID Ada/Canyon/Gem/Boise Counties

Agreed - in this age of techology it is amazing that they dont' accept it, and some of them even sign electronically themselves! 

Withour short sales we've had a number who have refused the docusing signatures and asked for "wet signatures" to close.  I can't remember who off the top of my head, but will start paying more attention.

May 18, 2011 03:19 PM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

John/Kasey, I know one of the local title companies told me that they have people sign the docs, but scan them (turning them into digital documents) and send them, but they won't accept digital to start with.

What next, will the BPO's start requiring us to use our Polaroid cameras instead of digital cameras next?  

I thought "regression analysis" was a math process not a modern day business practice of regressing (digressing) from the progress we had made with technology.  Oh wait, we are dealing with the government and banks...

May 18, 2011 04:22 PM
An Bui
DocuSign - Seattle, WA

Jim, thanks for sharing your story. Do you have the names / emails from those at HUD and Fannie who aren't accepting DocuSign? Please send them over to me, so I can get them to our legal affairs team for follow up. 

We've also put together a lender acceptance toolkit for our customers to use to help lenders understand that they can accept electronic signatures. We've included information from NAR and FHA as well. 

Please do reach out here or on the DocuSign Community, so we can all work together to encourage electronic signature adoption and use. 

Best,

An

 

May 19, 2011 07:02 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@ An, Thanks!  I will check out the lender acceptance toolkit.  I have request written verification from the agent that told me my offer needed to be wet signatures.  She is trying to get it from Fannie Mae.  On the HUD, I need to grab it from the training materials for a HUD REO class put on by GBS (they outsourced vendor for our area).  It would be helpful if DocuSign could have an acceptance letter from someone with authority at the major banks and REO vendors so we can just attach the "corporate" approval from them when we submit our offers.

May 19, 2011 07:12 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

This is from recent communication from Fannie Mae Vendor Desk (thanks Shelley)

 

As you review the above listed documents, please be sure to make a special note of the following points. Upon Acceptance:

  • Prepare a contract package with all documents reflecting the final negotiated terms with no mark-outs or changes.
  • Submit the contract package within 5 days of the Acknowledgement Date.
  • The Acknowledgement Date is the date in the system when the Listed Status changes to Offer 
    Accepted status and is the date used to start the clock on the inspection and financing
    contingencies.
  • Electronic signatures are not allowed on any documents, except for the seller per paragraph 34 of REPA

May 19, 2011 08:17 AM
Anonymous
Rick Triola, Founder Settleware www.settleware.com

Thanks Jim for your post and advocacy! With over 30 years RE experience, we began collaborating with Industry particpants over a decade ago and knew we had to garner 'buy-in' from each one before Realtors would enjoy the realized benefits. We have been certified by all Industry participants and surprised to hear about this pushback from Fannie - let us know who you are dealing with and we will make the contact.

Together we can all make a difference and move the Industry forward!!

Victor, Not sure if you saw the latest e-Signature decision: http://tinyurl.com/3mkeqhw
 

May 19, 2011 10:40 AM
#10
Jordon W.Y. Wong, Jr.
Marcus & Associates, Inc. - Kailua, HI

Jim,
Thank you for your post.  I'm a huge fan of digital signatures for many reasons.  One of them is that it is a "Green" solution that can reduce the use of paper.  But, I do feel that there needs to be a better way to "authenticate" the signing party.

May 19, 2011 11:42 AM
Anonymous
Rick Triola, Founder Settleware www.settleware.com

I agree Jordan that authenication is fundamental and a key component. There are many ways to authenticate-depending level of security required. For example, the authentication around the e-Promissory Note, which represents the asset and carries the highest liablity in the real estate/mortgage transaction, is much higher than would be for a simple contract, nda, etc.

A real world example would be when you FedEx a document across the country - the party receives, signs and returns- how do you know who signed the document, what authentication methods do you have to head to the courts, etc.? Yet, it has been accepted practice in every corner of the Globe. Hope this makes sense?

May 19, 2011 12:48 PM
#12
Trang Beuschlein
Homes for Sale in Campbell CA- Broker-BKR Realty - Campbell, CA
Campbell CA Real Estate - Campbell CA Homes for Sa

Jim, I represented a buyer on a Fannie Mae owned property and Fannie Mae accepted the digital signatures on the offer and other disclosures.  But when it comes to loans, no one will accept a digital signature on the loan application.

May 19, 2011 04:55 PM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@Rick, your welcome.  When we become Realtors, we take an oath to help improve the industry in which we serve.  I am just trying to help do my part.  I appreciate you stepping up as well!

@Jordan, I agree that we need authentication at times but not always.  In my opinion, any time you would typically need a notary, you should have strong authentication.  Most esignature solutions have much stronger authentication even at the "free" service level than you would have by receiving a fax of the document.  There are serious authentication levels when needed.

@Rick, thanks again.

@Trang, When did you close that transaction with Fannie Mae?  The one I closed in February was accepted with Digital Signatures but when I submitted an offer in April, I was told they no longer accepted digital signatures.

May 20, 2011 02:59 AM
An Bui
DocuSign - Seattle, WA

Hi Jim, Is there a name and contact information attached to the Fannie Mae vendor desk communication you included? We'd like to be able to follow up with them. Thanks again for shedding light on lender acceptance issues so we can work together for the acceptance of e-signatures. 

May 20, 2011 05:49 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@An, I am not a Fannie Mae listing broker (unfortunately) so I don't have access to that data.  When I had a previous issue with Fannie Mae, I called their Resource Center and they were very helpful (after I leveled up a few times).  The problem in the previous case was the Regional Servicing Agent was misinterpreting Fannie Mae Guidelines, so someone from Fannie Mae called them and told them to accept my offer.  I was most impressed!

Here is that contact information.

Resource Center at 1-800-7FANNIE (1-800-732-6643) Monday through Friday, between the hours of 8 a.m. and 8 p.m., Eastern Time.

May 20, 2011 06:53 AM
Trang Beuschlein
Homes for Sale in Campbell CA- Broker-BKR Realty - Campbell, CA
Campbell CA Real Estate - Campbell CA Homes for Sa

Jim, I closed in the middle of April.  The offer was submitted in the beginning of March.  That's too bad that they no longer accept electronic signatures.  It was nice not having to drive to the buyer to get signatures.

May 20, 2011 09:51 AM
Phil Leng
Retired - Kirkland, WA
Phil Leng - Retired

Hi Jim,

Very interesting post and discussion.

Thanks for starting it out.

Phil

Apr 24, 2012 08:34 PM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

Update: HUD issued Mortgagee Letter 2014-03 saying the accept some digital signatures.  Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac / VA are opening up as well.  We are finally getting there.  Hard to believe we still have to fight this battle since Digital Signatures were legalized nearly 15 years ago!

Jan 19, 2015 12:06 AM
Inna Ivchenko
Barcode Properties - Encino, CA
Realtor® • Green • GRI • HAFA • PSC Calabasas CA

Few legal acts pecify that the use of a digital signature is as legally valid as a traditional signature written in ink on paper, thus establishing that electronic contracts, e-signatures, and other electronic records are legally equivalent to paper counterparts.

Oct 01, 2015 06:50 AM

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