Buying a HUD Home? Don't over think it - logic will just frustrate you!

By
Real Estate Agent with Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info DB-17066

The main criteria about dealing with HUD is DO NOT TRY USE LOGIC.  If you do, you will need antidepressants!  For example:

1)  You have to be a HUD approved brokerage to sell a HUD home - although at least here in Idaho nothing on their form to become HUD approved is any more restrictive than getting a broker's license (I don't think they have ever turned one down unless they didn't include a form).

2)  Everyone including Realtor's have to sign in - Here in Boise, we use electronic lockboxes so it encodes the data and time of who opened the lockbox, but we still are supposed to sign in.  What do they do with the paper?

3)  I had to get permission to turn on utilities for only 72 hours yet the time schedule they asked for is in days!  I put down May 7-10 and they made me redo the paperwork for 8-10.  Isn't 1pm May 7 - 1pm May 10 72 hours?

4)  Utilities can only be on for 72 - good luck coordinating the appraiser and inspector in a 72 hour window when we aren't supposed to talk to the appraiser under the new guidelines!

5)  You have to pay $150 (to rewinterize the property) to turn the utilities on through the servicing company and must have permission in writing to turn them on or your offer can be terminated.  We did submit the money only to get a call that they need the buyers address to return the check since it is beyond the time of re-winterizing (they admitted they never published that).

6)  HUD requires all extensions will "only be granted in 15 calendar day increments".  When that moved my closing date to a Sunday does it default to the previous Friday or the following Monday?

7) The buyer has to pay the extension fee with the application even if HUD is the one that isn't prepared to close (although it will be reimbursed at closing).  They generated a letter to that effect including the form, so why didn't they just originate the form that they know how to use better than we do?

8)  Every form has to be signed or it is subject to being rejected with your offer.  Isn't it ironic that they forms are not signed when their letters are sent from their computer but ours have to be?

9)  Closing costs are supposed to be "standard and customary" yet they don't pay for appraisals in Boise which is our "standard" (I know it is different than most areas of the country) but why not say "national standard"?

10)  HUD won't pay for a standard owner's title policy.  Shouldn't that have been covered in #9 above?

11)  Appraisals:  HUD has their property appraised prior to putting it on the market.  Here in Boise, many of them are selling for above list price due to bidding wars.  Since the sales price is above appraisal, the buyer is expected to come to cash with extra money for closing and no one can talk to the appraiser about adjusting for the fact the home had multiple offers (we don't even know if we are in multiple bid situations any more to know if we need to offer more or not).

12)  HUD insured escrow repairs:  These sound like they are included but they are not!  If you want them fixed, you need to add them to the price and create a type of 203k loan!

These are not easy homes to deal with if you are a logical thinker.  Sometimes, I think it would be easier to only show HUD homes in the morning before my brain is fully functional or after Happy Hour for the same reason.  I think if I had an 80 IQ I wouldn't question things and my life as a Realtor might be lot simpler since I would just "go with the flow".

Comments (28)

Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@Chuck, I agree that many times the prices are very attractive.  It is weird that so many as Realtor's we recognize that and yet the appraisals are supposidly done at market value - so if they go to a bidding war, the buyer has to pay "over appraisal" which even if they can - adds to buyer's remorse which may cause them to back out!

@Richard, thanks for the clarification on the dates.  I am not sure how much of the problem is them and/or their servicing agents.

@Leah, thank you.  However, keep in mind that this list is just what I have experienced trying to close two loans currently with HUD.  I am pretty sure the list goes well beyond just the issues I have posted.

@Michael, If it was just a matter of following procedure, I would be very happy with HUD transactions.  The problem is even after going through specific HUD trainging, I told the instructors that if they had a test on how to fill out an offer half the classs would still fail and that if the selling agent had to do an estimated "buyer's net sheet" it would be even worse.

@Lois, I hear a rumor that HUD may be going back to posting the number of bids on a property.  The frustrating thing is they do not disclose if you are the only bidder or one of 10 so how does a buyer know how strong to bid?  At least Fannie Mae waits to receive offers and gives you a chance to up your bid if you are in a multiple bid situation.  HUD requires you to go to the "auction" and bid your highest price first which is not my definition of an auction!

@Alex, I will have to look at the $100 down payment option. I don't think that is available here in Boise, Idaho.  Where are you from since I can't tell by your signature line?

@Sara, Sorry to hear you got the run around too.  The buyer gets frustrated having to pay turn on fees, turn off fees and then if and when they close pay for turn on services yet again!

I wonder if I can bill HUD for the overnight fees to make sure I meet their deadlines on an extension they mandated?  What about billing them for my time and mileage?  I am pretty sure the answer is no.

 

 

Jun 21, 2011 03:04 AM
Andrew Robb
RE/MAX Renaissance Realty - Peoria, AZ
RE/MAX Realtor - Peoria, AZ

I'm going through a grueling HUD purchase for a client right now. I argued from the start about all kinds of mistakes their servicer was making with the file: nobody thought I would win, but the servicer finally realized their two biggest mistakes (we battled over IN vs IE status) as well as their claim there was an HOA of $163/mth, meanwhile there is no HOA at all. It's unbelievable why they make the process so difficult with that utility turn-on permission too.

I wonder if anyone at HUD or their servicer has ever tried to be on the other side of the fence? They'd soon realize you can sell more homes with a better process. For starters the "overnighting original ink signature documents" is just plain nuts. I thought Fannie Mae was bad but nothing comes close to HUD. Avoid these deals if you can!

Jun 21, 2011 03:06 AM
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

Did HUD and if you stay on your toes...the deal goes...But, you dance to the tune of HUD and that is where it can clash with your own business model...thank you

Jun 21, 2011 03:08 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@Andrew, I wonder how much money is spent overnighting documents?  If selling agents just delivered them to the listing brokerages, each listing brokerage could put the entire day's "overnight" packages into a single delivery and the listing agent would be responsible for delivering documents to "their client".  Oh wait, that sounded like logic again. LOL

@Richie, the HUD "song and dance"!

Jun 21, 2011 03:19 AM
Sandy Acevedo
951-290-8588 - Chino Hills, CA
RE/MAX Masters, Inland Empire Homes for Sale

Just reading this list made me tired. What a lot of hoops to jump through.

Jun 21, 2011 03:51 AM
Cory Barbee
San Diego, CA
Broker (760) 563-4022

I love the simple and efficient proces they have created to move these properties...I wish I could have been a part of those mastermind sessions...

Jun 21, 2011 05:04 AM
Janet Naisbitt-Bagley
ERA Realty Center - Cedar City, UT

There are quite a few HUD homes available in our Southern Utah area, and they are typically good buys.  HUDhomestore is quite helpful and includes inspections.  I am quite happy to sell the HUD properties.  My buyers are happy with their homes, and giving top service to our buyers and sellers is what we as real estate agents do even if there are a few hoops to jump through.  In the end, the happy homeowner makes it all worthwhile.  Wouldn't you agree?

Jun 21, 2011 06:17 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@Sandi, I just envisioned a three ring circus and animals (humans) jumping through hoops. (LOL)

@Cory, just remember Ronald Reagan's saying "Some of the scariest words you will ever hear - I'm from the government, I am here to help!"

@Janet, I am glad to sell any property including HUD homes.  I do however get frustrated by companies that don't even make an attempt to streamline their business models or seek input on how to improve. For example, I still haven't seen a notice sent out that HUD no longer requires re-winterization on homes here in Idaho so the next Realtor will go ask their buyer for a money order to send in with the utility turn on request only to have it sent back to the buyer causing waisted time, needless overnight fees for a process that is already deemed broken.  It would be so simple for them to just update their own form saying the $150 fee is waived until _____ date so we can just fax the form in and go forward!

Jun 21, 2011 06:48 AM
Andrew Robb
RE/MAX Renaissance Realty - Peoria, AZ
RE/MAX Realtor - Peoria, AZ

Jim, as an aside, my HUD client just called to say they are accepting the property so thankfully I won't have to start over with them... but I can only imagine what other annoying stuff HUD and co have in store for me as we hurtle towards closing at the speed of smell (they requested 50-day rubber stamped COE).

Jun 21, 2011 08:17 AM
Maya Swamy
Funds Available - Long Beach, CA
Ph.D. Long Beach, CA - fundsavailable.com

Sounds like a near nightmare. I am glad that there aren't that many hud properties here and so they don't impact my business too much.

Jun 21, 2011 09:19 AM
Craig Frazer
Farmington, UT
Real Estate, RE/MAX Metro, Davis & Salt Lake County

Of all the different maladies impacting our country, I honestly believe it is the destruction of common sense that will be viewed as the largest contributor to our demise.  Unfortunately, it isn't restricted to government interactions.  Consider the common sense failures we see on a regular basis when dealing with banks (short sales), retal establishments and others where the phrase "it's our policy" reigns supreme. 

When did we lose control to the lawyers?

Jun 21, 2011 10:25 AM
Mark Peek
Roseville Rocklin Real Estate - Keller Williams - Roseville, CA
Peek Real Estate Group - Roseville CA Real Estate

Government level efficiency at its finest.

Jun 21, 2011 06:51 PM
C. Lloyd McKenzie
Living Albuquerque - Albuquerque, NM
Living Albuquerque

Jim,

Very informative post. It almost seems like the intent is to create more Inefficiencies...Isn't EFFICIENCY in GOVERNMENT an oxymoron?

 

Jun 22, 2011 06:52 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@Andrew, best of luck.  Here in Boise they rubber stamp it with 45 days to close and most are not closing in that time frame.

@Maya, for 19 years, I had only closed one HUD REO.  This year, I have two pending.

@Craig, I think we lost control when the government started requiring warning labels on things so we quit letting survival of the fittest take its course since people that weren't smart enough to know you shouldn't put a plastic bag over your head would take themselves out of the gene pool.  LOL  Also, we lost control to the lawyers when people realized they could successfully sue companies like McDonalds when their coffee was "too hot" and when people would trespass into your yard and drown because we didn't build a better fence to keep them out!

@Erica, maybe your servicers do a better job on the verbiage but that isn't the case here in Boise.  On the extension request it says "This letter is to notify you that the current expiration date of 6/24/2011 for this property is approaching.   This transaction must close or an extension must be filed prior to 6/24/2011 in order to avoid expiration of the contract and the potential loss of earnest money.  HUD requiree extensions to be submitted no later than 5 business days prior to contract expiration date.  That would make the date June 24th!  Which date should it be if I am doing what the paperwork says, the second sentence on their letter or the third sentence from the same letter?

@Mark, agreed, let's put the "FUN" back in "dysFUNctional"!

@C Lloyd, You have me thinking... Oxymoron?  The OxiClean spokesman was Billy Mays who died and the autopsy says Cocaine was a factor.  Our government went out for a JOINT session and "passed" some of the these "fixes".  You might be onto something here! LOL

Jun 22, 2011 07:17 AM
Virginia Kail
Investments, starter houses, luxury homes,farms, acreage - Cookeville, TN
True Blue Realty, Homes and Land for Sale

Jim,

HUD deals make me want to scream. I just had one fall through after 3 months of extensions and zero communication on the part of HUD.

Now I'm working on another one, and it isn't going much better. My biggest complaint is that you can't just talk to a human being and resolve even the simplest problems. It's like trying to work a deal with a turnip.

Nice that "we the people" get to subsidize this kind of bureaucracy.

Jun 22, 2011 07:33 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@Virginia, I loved the turnip analogy!  I find it interesting that they are the ones that are behind in closing, require us to do the addendum to extend closing and yet I have absolutely no clue how far behind they are to be able to tell my client.  Maybe I will "vegitate" as they go "green" = turnip style.

Jun 22, 2011 04:13 PM
Endre Barath, Jr.
Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices - Beverly Hills, CA
Realtor - Los Angeles Home Sales 310.486.1002

Jim I loved your post and the conversation....I am in a FANIMAY property but that is the food for another post:)) Congrats on the Feature:)

Jun 22, 2011 04:45 PM
Wayne Johnson
Coldwell Banker D'Ann Harper REALTORS® - San Antonio, TX
San Antonio REALTOR, San Antonio Homes For Sale

And somebody thinks guys in other federal bureaucracies should have a bigger role in running national health care.

Jun 23, 2011 03:09 AM
Jim Paulson
Progressive Realty (Boise Idaho) www.Progressive-Realty.info - Boise, ID
Owner,Broker

@Endre, I closed a Fannie Mae earlier this year and found the main problem was with the regional servicer misinterpreting Fannie Mae Guidelines.  Fannie Mae was very helpful in "telling" them to accept my offer.  I was pleased it actually got resolved.  Best of luck on yours!

@Wayne, when I think of them having a bigger role in healthcare that makes me sick.  Maybe I need to start taking better care of myself just in case. LOL

Jun 25, 2011 03:03 AM
Gene Allen
Fathom Realty - Cary, NC
Realty Consultant for Cary Real Estate

I closed several HUD properties this year.  Luckily two were investors and just closed without inspections but extensions because HUD couldn't clear title.  The other was a nightmare for most of the above reasons.

Sep 28, 2011 03:18 AM

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