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A Chimney Is Not A Structural Member To Attach To

By
Home Inspector with Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 3380-000723

Often times decks are weakened by the way they are attached to a house.  And a chimney should not be used to support the deck's structure.  A chimney is not a structural member to attach to.

This house has two wood-burning fireplaces.

So, to accommodate both flues, which have to be independent, the chimney box is very wide.

The structure for these chimney flues is a mere wooden surround.  It is basically a bump out, attached to the house's structure, but not a part of it.

There is no cantilever inside this chimney to make it a part of the house's structure.

And so decks are not supposed to be attached to them!

Approximately one third of this deck is attached to the chimney.

And not even very well!  I only counted four bolts.  And I'm not sure what kind of bolts they are!

Decks usually don't collapse downward.  What usually happens is people go out onto the deck and congregate at the outer guardrail.

This places all the weight to the outside.  Attachment to the house is CRITICAL to the deck's ability to stand straight and support that weight.

When decks collapse, it is most often by falling away from the house.  This deck has been there a long time, but that doesn't discount the potential danger.

AND IT IS A DANGER!

This is one of the most common mistakes made by homeowner or unprofessional deck builders.  What should have happened?

The two joist surrounding the chimney on both sides should be doubled up.  And between them a double joist should run parallel to the chimney, but not attaching thereto.  Then those perpendicular support joists can be properly, safely and securely, attached to that double cross joist assembly.

That is one way to tell that this deck was not built professionally.

Here is another way!         --------->

The outside joists really ought to be doubled also.  This provides strength to the deck "box," but also for the outside guardrail to anchor into.

But look.  Not only is this (and the other) outside joist single, it is attached flimsily with a single angle bracket in the corner.

That bracket does not afford enough nail holes for proper attachment.

When they give way, and they often do, this is the result.

From above it is obvious that the decking in that corner has sunk a bit over 1".

AND VERY INSECURE!

So this "deck guy" was consistent in his inability to understand structure and attachment.

My recommendation:  decks afford many opportunities for failure.  They seem to be one of the things most-often attempted by nonprofessionals.  They watch a TV show and bang, they can build one too!  Look at the decks very carefully, see how wobbly the guardrails are, see if there is any sagging or if the joists are close enough.  And don't walk out on a deck with high heels!  You will appreciate that tip... pun intended!

 

 

Posted by

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comments(49)

Eileen Hsu
Douglas Elliman Real Estate - Manhattan, NY
LICENSED REAL ESTATE SALESPERSON

The deck seems to be an afterthought to most buyers of something that they need to be very careful about, but obviously the potential for a major accident on a deck is important to know about. 

Aug 25, 2011 05:54 AM
Steven Cook
No Longer Processing Mortgages. - Tacoma, WA

Jay - we had a deck collapse near our office a few years back -- it also fell away from the house, and the partygoers were hurt.  Surprise, surprise - no one had applied for or gotten a permit to build it either. 

Aug 25, 2011 06:07 AM
David Stokes
Ambassador Home Inspections, LLC. - Spring Hill, FL

Very find and good post Jay,

 

BUILDING CODES and NO SHORTCUTS are ALWAYS the best way to Go! Best support for any deck would be "Independently Supported." Yeah, they can say the house blew away but that deck was still in place, lol.

Again Good Post Jay! 

Aug 25, 2011 06:08 AM
J. Philip Faranda
Howard Hanna Rand Realty - Yorktown Heights, NY
Associate Broker / Office Manager

I wonder why people can't understand how something that may stand on its own may not be strong enough to hold their weight in a sustainable way. 

We have had so many stories of deck collapses in my area, especially in the boroughs of NYC, that it is amazing to me that it doesn't sink in. 

Aug 25, 2011 07:38 AM
Chris Smith
Re/Max Chay Realty Inc., Brokerage - New Tecumseth, ON
South Simcoe, Caledon, King, Orangeville Real Esta

Jay, great information, that many people are going to benefit from, thanks.

Aug 25, 2011 08:44 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Carol - structure is not something you should ASSUME you know about!

Thank you Carolyn for your very kind words!  Maybe one day I can see your deck!  Send me some photos!

A1 - that's the idea and pretty obvious to you and to me.  But so many don't see that.

Phil - decks are serious business and so often wrong.  It is wise to be wary.

Ken - I am NOT looking forward to Irene.  They are saying maybe 120mph sustained!  My house for sure is not used to that.

Aug 25, 2011 01:40 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Scott - the rail is a very serious part of the deck!  Next to the support, it is the next most crucial.

Well, Barbara - it is code here too!  Does everyone pull a permit?  Obviously not!

Richard - smart move.  It's probably worked out well for you too.

Mike - have fun with it!  Those homeowner gems usually add a lot of time to the sale.

H&S - and with each collapse or accident the codes have to change again!

Aug 25, 2011 01:51 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Mike Y. - that seems to be a very hard thing for some to do!

Michael - that's because you pulled a permit!  These faulty decks obviously weren't approved, and therefore slipped by without one.

Brian - the fireplaces and flues are metal inserts.  There are two fireplaces and therefore two flues inside that chimney cavity you see.  That does not afford room for proper catilevering, but a cantilever is for horizontal support, not vertical.  Also, I have done enough pre-drywall inspections to know how they frame these things.

Barbara-Jo - now you know not to attach to them!

Brian - they are risky all over the place.  It's a matter of professionalism.

Aug 25, 2011 10:02 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Tom - there are many reasons for the many deck codes.  Attachment codes are pretty specific.

Shadow - they get whacky on the decks too!  Then they fall...

K.C. - I always do.  Even during Irene this weekend!  Can't wait...

Linda - safety is an important part of the home inspection process.  And improper building techniques.

Ed - I don't know what happens with the permit thing.  The county might not cotton to this deck!

Aug 25, 2011 10:05 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Richie - that is why!  We all do what we do best, and in the end everyone benefits.

Morgan - hence all the attachment codes.  Decks fall away, not down!

John - and with every one of those reports, the codes change!  It's hard to make all that stuff proactive!

Thank you Tara, glad you subscribe!  I used to go to Princeton every summer to visit my aunt and uncle.  Is that like opening a branch?  It was a long time ago though...

Eileen - things like this happen because people are ignorant and assume.  When we are unaware of something, we probably shouldn't proceed as if we did!

Aug 25, 2011 10:09 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Steven - so someone checked into it AFTER the collapse?  Great policy!

David - for sure, all of that!  I say to clients all the time, when the deck is really well done, to run out onto the deck in the event of an earthquake and they'll be safe!

Joe - it all boils down to ignorance.  It's unfortunate too.  People see something on TV and think they can do it.  We don't know what we don't know.

I hope so too Chris!  That's why I post this stuff.

Aug 25, 2011 10:13 PM
Goran Utvic
Goran Utvic Real Estate Broker/Construction Consultant - Chicago, IL
Chicago 2 Flat Specialist

Jay great post...here in Chicago we learned how important it is to have your deck/porch built right.

Aug 26, 2011 02:20 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Goran - everywhere it seems there have been serious deck issues.  It is important to get it right!

Aug 26, 2011 12:32 PM
Justin Dibbs
Fairway Independent Mortgage - Ashburn, VA
Mortgage Advisor

I was showing an REO not too long agon and the deck was VERY shaky.  I'm always leery stepping out onto an deck that is unknown to me.

Aug 26, 2011 12:50 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Justin - you should make it a habit to look at it from underneath before you venture out on top!

Aug 26, 2011 12:52 PM
Donald Hester
NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA
NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jay,

It seems almost every deck I inspect will have some issues. Like the one you used in this blog some much more than others. I am sometimes amazed that more people do not get hurt on some of these decks.

Aug 26, 2011 06:26 PM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Decks are always worth a close look, but at least they are usually open and accessible. Just because it's holding today, doesn't mean it always will.

Aug 28, 2011 04:26 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Don - which is why accidents seem to happen so often!  And when least expected.

Robert - all things need is an event - too many people, lots of weight on the guardrai, whatever!

Aug 28, 2011 06:23 AM
Reuben Saltzman
Structure Tech Home Inspections - Minneapolis, MN
Delivering the Unbiased Truth.

That deck looks like a good candidate for more footings and more posts.

Aug 29, 2011 02:31 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Good point Reubs!  Interestingly the deck next door had been extended 4' on each side and stairs were added.  The obviously professional deck guy saw that the deck was bolted to that chimney, like this one, (builder done since they are the same?) and suggested they add another long beam just to the outside of the chimney and spanning the deck.  I pointed it out to my buyer as not only smart but necessary.

Aug 29, 2011 11:35 PM