Andrew Mooers | 207.532.6573
MOOERS REALTY - Houlton, ME
Northern Maine Real Estate-Aroostook County Broker

I agree with your logic!

Apr 23, 2012 04:15 AM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Thank you Andrew.

Apr 23, 2012 04:42 AM
Richard Iarossi
Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - Crofton, MD
Crofton MD Real Estate, Annapolis MD Real Estate

Harley,

Did they deny them the right to build at all, or deny them the right to build higher than the zoning allows?

Rich 

Apr 23, 2012 04:56 AM
Linda Kemp
Keller Williams Realty Infinity - Naperville, IL
Stager and Relocation Professional

Andrew how ridculous the red tape can be!  it is often easier to get a approval for a bar than for a church!  That might sound a bit outrageous but that's what happened to us when I was part of my church's relocation commettee.  We had a difficult time with the village but after a few public hearings we got the green light.

Sometimes the rules keep us at a distance from our good.  Thanks for sharring.

Linda

Apr 23, 2012 04:57 AM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Richard - The CUP was denied based on the variance for Height. Our regulations are not very clear and therefore a lot of things are up for negotiation. Bad from an investor's view as we never know what is allowed or not. Planning is good, regulation maybe not. No simple answer on this one.

Apr 23, 2012 05:12 AM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Hey Linda -I think when planning and common since do not go hand in hand, perhaps the planning is foul?

Apr 23, 2012 05:13 AM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Rich - There was some talk about some different ordinances that would deal with roof top structures including steeples. We have only had on church in the county over the last decade and they were not prepared for the applicant. This is where common since should come into play. Height limit 45', the building will be 30' - there is a size and scale issue in effect. When you have a 8,000 sq foot church 30' tall with a 15' tall steeple it looks like a tic on a hound.

Apr 23, 2012 05:20 AM
Tammy Lankford,
Lane Realty Eatonton, GA Lake Sinclair, Milledgeville, 706-485-9668 - Eatonton, GA
Broker GA Lake Sinclair/Eatonton/Milledgeville

I see our forefathers rolling over in their graves at the amount of freedoms we've lost.  And if our people don't put our feet down and elect officials that have morals, values and logic we are lost.

Apr 23, 2012 05:49 AM
Elizabeth Weintraub Sacramento Realtor Top 1%
RE/MAX Gold - Sacramento, CA
Put 40 years of experience to work for you

There is a lot of prejudice in this country against certain religions. Some people consider Mormons to be somewhat of a cult, so perhaps it's not the church that is at odds with those who object but the type of church.

Apr 23, 2012 06:03 AM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Tammy - Wouldn't it be a better place if REAL PEOPLE served in office and not just politicians as usual? I some other countries public office pay scale is more in line with the private sector. I think you generally get what you pay for.

Apr 23, 2012 06:12 AM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Elizabeth - Perhaps. I hope not. This little valley was settled by Mormons. Most folks that think Mormonism is a "Cult" do not know much about the religion. I am for Churches, regardless of denomination, and I am for them to be where they can be seen. I just feel the architecture of churches are pleasant to look at and the values for which they stand is something to be proud of.

Apr 23, 2012 06:17 AM
Connie Harvey
Pilkerton Realtors - Brentwood, TN
Realtor - Nashville TN Real Estate

Really. Can't they find anything better to be concerned about?

Apr 23, 2012 06:25 AM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Connie - Yes Really, crazy world we live in.

Apr 23, 2012 06:46 AM
Chris "The Loan Ranger" McBrearty, NMLS 274079
Fairway Independent Mortgage, DBO/CRMLA #41DBO-78367, NMLS #2289 - Rancho Bernardo, CA
FHA, VA, USDA, Loan Officer and Educator

I say as long as they follow the rules then build away. New jobs and folks having a place of worship never hurt anybody.

Apr 23, 2012 07:46 AM
Mel Ahrens, MBA, Kelly Right Real Estate
Kelly Right Real Estate - Hood River, OR
Customized Choices for your Real Estate Needs

Wow, what next? I agree that maybe the height restriction should be enforced, but any tastefully designed church should be acceptable. Are there any design regulations for the corridor that the church would violate? Otherwise, I think they should go for it!

Gretchen

Apr 23, 2012 09:32 AM
1~Judi Barrett
Integrity Real Estate Services 118 SE AVE N, Idabel, OK 74745 - Idabel, OK
BS Ed, Integrity Real Estate Services -IDABEL OK

Harley, do you think that it had anything to do with the denomination that was requesting?  

Apr 23, 2012 11:14 AM
Carla Muss-Jacobs, RETIRED
RETIRED / State License is Inactive - Portland, OR

I wonder if they'd be opposed to a cross of the same height.  It really is a steeple and doesn't really draw that much attention.  Sad that the height restriction was an issue of contention. 

Apr 23, 2012 12:24 PM
Anonymous
Tony

The CUP was not disapproved because of steeple height as the variance for the steeple was withdrawn before the BOCC public hearing!  As commissioner Benedict (D) stated as he was about to render his deny decision, he "Learned more about the LDS Church during the hearing than he did reading the application", and that he could not permit the amount of activity the LDS members would be participating in.  How's that for denying religious practice and constitutional first amendment rights?!  It says something about the liberals in the community when a church building is denied (Victor impact area) but an over-height vodka distillery is approved in the scenic corridor (north-end Driggs impact area).  VARD colluded with the 2 BOCC democrats to deny the church CUP but where were they for the distillery?  It's high time to vote out the corruption!  See you May 15th at your polling places!

Apr 23, 2012 02:38 PM
#18
Bob Crane
Woodland Management Service / Woodland Real Estate, Keller Williams Fox Cities - Stevens Point, WI
Forestland Experts! 715-204-9671

Harley, it is unfortunate that many of the ills in the world today are due to the same people who are pro distillery and anti Church.

Apr 23, 2012 04:49 PM
Ron Marshall
Marshall Enterprises - Saint Michael, MN
Birdhouse Builder Extraordinaire

The church is going to generate traffic.  And, that is good.  More people participating keeps them from needing the products of the distellery.

Apr 23, 2012 10:23 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Hey Chris - I believe in rules. I also feel if rules do not make sense CHANGE THEM. A development seminar I attended had a speaker that said if you have a great plan and it doesn't fit the ordinance - change the ordinance, his recommendation to P&Z. I think Regulation is easy to create and hard to change.

Apr 23, 2012 11:34 PM
Sondra Meyer:
Colorado Springs, CO
See It. Experience It. Live It.

Wow....they should be much happier they are dealing with a church rather than a Walmart box store, a Hooters, or some sort of adult entertainment store.  (Not placing Walmarts in the same category as the other two....but those are the types of places that generally draws huge controversy not a church. 

Apr 23, 2012 11:34 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Gretchen, the problem with some regulation is that it is subject to too much interpretation. We have conditional use permits here for a lot of things. CUPs are negotiated approval and as different powers come into office the ordinances are interpreted differently. Good planning is clear and easy to understand. Thanks for the comment.

Apr 23, 2012 11:36 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Judi, I hope not. We should have freedoms of religion in the USA.

Apr 23, 2012 11:37 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Carla - There are height restriction variances granted for wind turbines. Agricultural grain silos are allowed up to 60 feet. The height of the steeple is not the real issue.

Apr 23, 2012 11:39 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Tony, thank you for the clarification. I hope the people of our county will become more informed about the real facts and quit listening to the propaganda machine of VARD.

Apr 23, 2012 11:42 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Bob - For the record. I am pro distillery and pro Church. This is America - I thought we had the right to choose.

Apr 23, 2012 11:43 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Hey Ron - Some will drink Vodka on Saturday and take Sacrament on Sunday. :)

Apr 23, 2012 11:44 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

Thank you all for your comments. The most important thing today is to become aware of the issues and take part in our government at every level. Vote - it is the greatest opportunity for your voice to be heard. If you don't vote do you have the right to complain?

Apr 23, 2012 11:46 PM
Harley Wilcox
West Group Real Estate - Victor, ID
Harley Wilcox

EXACTLY  Sondra. Thank you.

Apr 23, 2012 11:47 PM