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Saying "Exo-Thermic Permeation" Made Me Look Effluent With English

By
Home Inspector with Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 3380-000723

Exo-thermic permeation.  Fancy words!  How effluent is your English?

One of those things I have picked up along the way is a way to tell if there has been abuse of cast iron drain lines.  When it happens it is usually when people have septic systems.  I learned it from a client who was a water-treatment expert.  He worked in the field!

What is exo-thermic permeation?  When septic systems back up an old clean-out technique, which my client called an "old wive's tale," is to pour hydrochloric acid into the system.  But too much acid has the effect of causing cast iron to heat up.

Cast iron joints were sealed together by melting lead and pouring it into the joint.  It would be drawn in, much like sweating a copper plumbing joint, harden and last forever!  A tamping tool would situate and smooth it out.

According to my client, if there are back ups in the system, and that acid sits in the pipes, they heat up and sweat.  That sweat permeates through the cast iron, and the lead, and looks like leaking.  But touching it nothing is wet.  It feels like it is oozing and dripping grease.

The drips can be cleaned up, but the more the acid is used the more the pipes will sweat.

UNTIL THIS INSPECTION I HAD NEVER SEEN WHAT I SUSPECTED TO BE "EXO-THERMIC PERMEATION!"

Not long ago, during a home inspection, I noticed three things:

1.  The drains in this house were all slow.  Everywhere in the house.  Water would drain, but slowly.  And the toilets were lazy, for lack of a better word.
2.  The basement room where the drains all met had a freshly painted floor.
3.  There were four cast iron joints and they all looked like this:

Thinking (but not really knowing!) this might be exo-thermic permeation I suggested that to my client.  I also said that the septic tank needs to be pumped to see if the system is functioning, and/or the connections to or from the tank are bad.

My report also said that since this was a three-bedroom house the tank would be 1200 to 1500 gallons.  If it wasn't working properly, and the water very acidic, the effluent would be floating on the top.  The only way to tell if the tubes are all intact is to pump the tank and find the distribution box, EVEN IF MY CLIENT HAD TO PAY FOR THAT HIMSELF!

The seller was "offended" that I would suggest any problem with the system, that it worked fine and yadda, yadda.  And that there was no reason to paint that floor under the connections except "to make it look nicer."

Yesterday the realtor and my client spent most of the day trying to find the box and distribution system and dig it up to see what's up.  He called me to tell me that I should see this before they pump it out!  I rushed over!

Obviously this little puppy isn't working!  What you see on the left is floating effluentThe tank has not treated it to convert solids into a liquid for system percolation. You can see that the "T" has been broken for some time. 

The photo on the right is the connection between the tank and the distribution box.  By the time I got there the distribution box had been replaced, but the connection to it is broken and has not worked for some time.

Standing there with everybody I said it looks like there really was exo-thermic permeation and too much acid in the water.  The tank isn't working because there is too much acid.

The septic tank guy, impressed, looked at me like I was a Martian, saying, "You know about that?"

Aw, shucks.

Now the entire system needs to be tested by a specialist to see if the field percolates effluent!  I bet it doesn't!

My very happy client was saved thousands of dollars.  And maybe more to come if the field doesn't distribute effluent properly!

My recommendation:  in an older house with cast iron pipes, look for exo-thermic permeation!  Just suggesting the word will make you look really smart!  And what you say likely won't be bull effluent!

 

 

Posted by

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comments(48)

Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Chuck - I would expect to see very few septics down there, except perhaps in the north.

Fred - can I interest you in a little oatmeal with raisins, very soupy so you can eat it with a straw?   ----------->

Jim - we have a lot of clay here.  It must perc more slowly.  I was pretty close to that stuff and it looked and smelled pretty familiar!  What was on the bottom, when he finished much later, was almost a tar.  He thought that might be related to the acid also.  They are going to check the field with dye.

Glad you enjoyed it Paul.  Sometimes things add up.

Hi Jim and the guys in the Manassas Gold Team!  Long time no see!  I know the outside layers are tapped in, or after it hardens and cools enough.

Sep 08, 2012 06:38 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Richie - breath in and out of a bag while you do it...

Kevin - check it away!  I did and it came in useful!

Catherine - cast iron pipes are more frequent in older homes than septic systems, but look for the greasy drips!

Harry - and apparently just a little while before our inspection!

J&R - it isn't fun, but can be informative!

Sep 08, 2012 06:42 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Bernice - when I meet someone I can learn from I am the question machine.  They can get tired of me fast!

Lottie - it has to be taken with a lot of spoonfuls of sugar.

Judith - I bet he didn't know about the permeation clues!

Ken - this guy was saved a lot of dough!

Sep 08, 2012 06:44 AM
Tatyana Makarov
Century 21 All Points Realty - South Windsor, CT
Your Greater Hartford Area Realtor

Oh my, Jay,

I bet you don't get surprised anymore... I can't believe some people!

Have a great weekend.

Sep 08, 2012 07:07 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Not surprised at all!  Never actually, but disappointed all the time Tatyana.

Sep 08, 2012 07:41 AM
Tom Arstingstall, General Contractor, Dry Rot, Water Damage Sacramento, El Dorado County - (916) 765-5366
Dry Rot and Water Damage www.tromlerconstruction.com Mobile - 916-765-5366 - Placerville, CA
General Contractor, Dry Rot and Water Damage

I hope I never have to drop the "exo-thermic permeation" term on anybody Jay. But it I do, I will always remember where I first Learned about it.

:)

Sep 08, 2012 10:05 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Well, Tom, I still remember the inspection where I first learned about it!

Sep 08, 2012 10:07 AM
Joan Whitebook
BHG The Masiello Group - Nashua, NH
Consumer Focused Real Estate Services

Thanks for the heads up on exo-thermic permeation!..  I think it is so important for buyers to have a home inspector like you.

Sep 08, 2012 12:47 PM
Donald Hester
NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA
NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jay,

 This make me remember crawling under my Friends home and sweating a cast iron joint for him. I am sure snuffing the lead was good for me ;)

Sep 08, 2012 03:33 PM
Mike Gillingham
Eastern Iowa Inspection Services LLC - Walker, IA

Great job! Nobody knows it all and having the humility to pick something up from a client is a good sign! Been there, done that. :)

Sep 08, 2012 07:13 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thanks Joan, but we are just trying to use what we pick up along the way!  We all do!

Don - people who do stained glass art need to be careful about breathing those fumes too.  That's what, exo-thermic inhalation?

Thank you too Mike.  When I can I ask a million questions of people I meet on home inspections.

Sep 08, 2012 08:35 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

Checking with dye is not considered a best practice here. In fact the CT DPH and DEP warn against dye tests for determining septic system failure. As I said above, typically water is introduced into the tank before pumping it out. Water back flowing into the tank is a good indication of failing septic fields. In addition every company I work with also physically probes the fields. Wet or mucky fields can also be a good indication of failure. I have not seen anyone I work with use dye. 

Sep 08, 2012 10:43 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

That's all true.  I think people here do it because the counties recommend it.  From what I understand it can take a couple three weeks for any dye to show up.  Most people don't have that kind of time.  What you say is far better practice Jim.

Sep 08, 2012 11:01 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

I hear the same about dye, it can take a long time to show up. Not a reliable test.

Sep 08, 2012 11:11 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Jim - I used to do inspections for a relo company and on one they required a dye test.  They had me call the sellers 1/2 hour before I arrived to ask them to turn the water on.  That way, they said, the water would be flowing to the field.  I told them that the dye would simply not show up that day and maybe not for a while.  But I introduced the dye, went to the field, nothing showed up.  I think they wanted to demonstrate due diligence and get out from under any future complaints.

Sep 08, 2012 11:14 PM
John J. Woods
Big Dog Press, LLC - Winder, GA
Going where no man has gone before - wouldn't you?

 

   Seen this happen.  Never kniew what it was called.  Thanks.

   So "effluent" is a euphemism?  I used to live in an effluent community...

 

Sep 09, 2012 12:35 AM
Kathy Clulow
Uxbridge, ON
Trusted For Experience - Respected For Results

Jay - another good reason for including a "septic party" (have the septic pumped and inspected with the seller and the prospective purchaser present) with a home inspection

Sep 09, 2012 12:57 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

John - most communities have their "effluent" elements, even the affluent ones!

Kathy - this was a phone call that encouraged me to come to the property late in the day!

Sep 09, 2012 04:53 AM
Scott Seaton Jr. SLS Home Insp
SLS Home Inspections-Kankakee Will Iroquois Grundy Counties - Bourbonnais, IL
The Home Inspector With a Heart!

Who you gonna call? Exo-thermic Busters. Do-do-do-dodo-do-I ain't afraid of no exo-thermic. 

Great pictures too BTW.

Sep 09, 2012 10:26 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Thems is some suntanned cast iron pipes Scott!  Glad you like the photos - yummie!

Sep 10, 2012 08:03 AM