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Have You Got The 'New House plumbing Blues'?

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Home Inspector with Aspect Inspection

Have You Got The 'New House plumbing Blues'?

or What's wrong in this picture.?  A Plumbing Puzzler.

new and clean but not right

Everything is clean and new and dry, no leaks. It's a new house, less than 2 years old, being sold by the builder owner.

He (or his plumber) would get 3 out of 4 on this issue because of the 4 sinks in the home only this one is like this.  Very likely, one person did the rough-in plumbing (blue and red lines) and later, somebody else connected the sinks at a finishing stage.

The plumbing IS all clean and new. There are no leaks and all the parts are there, so what's wrong.

Look at the copper parts at the ends of the 't' offshoots. As they are installed they are filled with water and that defeats their purpose and function.

correct sink connections

This shows another sink in the same house done correctly.

Here you see the intended installation position. Air is trapped in those vertical chambers.

The air is compressible (water is not) and provides a cushion to counteract shocks or pressure changes in the water supply lines resulting from valve switching or flow changes from other fixtures and equipment in the system.

Noise can be caused by these pressure changes in systems that don't have such a dampening device. This is called 'water hammer' and indeed it is a hammering repetitive noise.

The noise can be quite loud and intrusive. In older more brittle plumbing systems it can be violent enough to cause leaks or breakage. Sometimes the noise can be of a high enough frequency to sound like whistling or singing, but it is commonly low bass tones that transmit well through the structure.

The "noise arrestors" won't always be these pre-made bottle shaped parts. Plumbers commonly create them on the spot with standard plumbing supplies. All that is required is a capped vertical pipe section open only in the downward direction.

Non-professionals often see these spurs or offsets and think it is unfinished work or provision for future connections.

They can be located anywhere in the system and are often found near sinks or showers and near hot water tanks and radiators of hot water heating systems.

system illustration  

This illustration shows 8 of these "air chambers" in this example of a residential water supply system.

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Comparatively this is a minor mistake, easily corrected and not a major cost. But it's significance is in the future performance of the plumbing in this new home.

This is also one example of why it is just as important to have a new home fully inspected. Just because it's new, built with all new components, doesn’t mean it's always done right.

 

Posted by

bolg signature 

Fernando Herboso - Associate Broker MD, & VA
Maxus Realty Group of Samson Properties - Clarksburg, MD
301-246-0001 Serving Maryland, DC and Northern VA

. .and I was going to say something about the dead squirrel on the bottom of the sink. . . 

Feb 06, 2013 10:34 PM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Yes Jay the apprentice we can understand but the boss in this case was the seller (who is a general contractor).

The red and blue stuff works fine. No faults or defficiencies obseved in these products here so far.

 

Well Michael and Fernando, you're both wrong. It's a childs toy. I knew I'd get comments on that if i didn't crop it out.

Feb 06, 2013 11:43 PM
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

To the layman, it looks pretty and useful and I would pay it no mind as long as when the tap was turned, the water came out...

Feb 06, 2013 11:48 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

And here I thought the rabbit was a leak alarm!  Silly me!

My dog has two rabbits like that which she loves!  Other chew toys are destroyed, but she protects the rabbits.

Feb 06, 2013 11:49 PM
Donald Hester
NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA
NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Robert, That's them new fancy horizontal arrestors, they had to pay extra for them.

Feb 06, 2013 11:55 PM
Charles Buell
Charles Buell Inspections Inc. - Seattle, WA
Seattle Home Inspector

Robert, while it may varry from maufacturer to manufacturer, a common one used around here made by Sioux Chief, specifically states they can be installed at any angle.  Not sure what brand you have there.

Feb 07, 2013 01:43 AM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Well Richie, that's why you need the home inspected.

A rabbit leak alarm! There's a new product for Billy. You heard it here first Jay.

You're right Don, they paid for them. We'll see if the're worth it. The extra is certainly there in being installed twice.

Sioux Chief may claim that Charles but they haven't been in use long enough to demonstrate it. Other makers make no such claim. They may prove to be wiser in the long run. If you were a plumber and responsible for it, wouln't you do the 'safe' installation.

Feb 07, 2013 01:59 AM
Charles Buell
Charles Buell Inspections Inc. - Seattle, WA
Seattle Home Inspector
Robert, perhaps so---but since they are a mechanical device that will fail over time---I really don't see how failure would be exacerbated regardless of position. Like you said they are relatively new and we have not seen the earliest ones go into failure mode yet.
Feb 07, 2013 04:24 AM
Gary Frimann, CRS, GRI, SRES
Eagle Ridge Realty / Signature Homes & Estates - Gilroy, CA
REALTOR and Broker, Notary

Most interesting to me was the red and blue stuff.  I have not seen it in my area--yet.  But, it makes sense.

Feb 07, 2013 05:34 AM
Myrl Jeffcoat
Sacramento, CA
Greater Sacramento Realtor - Retired

One of the things I like about selling new homes is they come with a new home warranty.  But, as you point out, there can be little bugs in their construction, that need to be worked out early on. 

Feb 07, 2013 08:08 AM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

My favorite new home plumbing goof happened when the builder accidentally switched the water lines to the hall bath commode... thus filling the toilet bowl with HOT water.  All was fine, and nobody noticed until the dear mother-in-law came for a few days, and ended up sitting right in the hot water one night at around 3:00am.  Someone had left the seat up, and... as they say... "in she went."  I am told the scream could be heard for miles.

Feb 07, 2013 09:09 AM
Chuck Mixon
The Keyes Company - Cutler Bay, FL
Cutler Bay Specialist, GRI, CDPE, BPOR

Most home owners don't know how to stop that noise from a water hammer.  Even with the Air chamber install correctly the air some time disappears for the chamber and the fill up completely with water. You will know when this happen as when the water is turned off suddenly you will hear the loud hammer sound of the copper pipes rattling in the walls.  Doing plumbing during my summer vacation from high school I learned a lot from my uncle who was a master plumber.

While showing a house to a buyer, they were curious about water pressure. So they turn on the water and the quickly turned it off when they saw the had plenty of pressure. Problem was the that got a very loud water hammer in return. Seller was in the living room and rushed back to warn us that we needed to turn the water off very slowly.  I could see on everyone face the this was a deal killer. I quickly stepped in and explain that this was not a problem at all and can be fix in a few minutes. I explain the air chambers to the and told the that they just happen to not have any air in the, and to get air in to the was a very simple step.

The first thing we did was go out side and turn the main water supply off to the house. then went back in and opend the valves to both the hot and cold water. I ask if they had the water hammer on any other water supplies in the house they said yes in the kitchen. So we did the same thing in the kitchen, when all the water supplies were closed in the inside of the house we went back out side and turned the water back on for the house.  I then went back in the bathroom were we heard the water hammer very loud and turned the water on and then off very quickly , and there was no sound of water hammer at all. everyone was excited and we check the kitchen also, perfect.

One caution I did see a problem in your pictures and that is the air chamber is located under the sink (Below the water supply) not above the water supply. Here in South Florida most of the time the air chamber are extended above the water supply so they drain easily. In your case if you open the water supply the water will not drain for the air chamber because it below the water supply. So to drain the air chamber in your house you will need to go to the lowest water supply for the house a tub or outside hose bib to drain all the water from the house, and your problem will be solved. So the plumber made two mistakes wrong direction of the chamber and the elevation of the chamber was too low to drain easily.

PS The deal did go through and I was thanked by both the buyer and the seller at the closing table. They asked if they can call me if the had any other plumbing problems in the future.

Feb 07, 2013 12:45 PM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Agreed Charles.

Hi Gary. The plastic tubing is not always red and blue and there are several types. Pex is the best standard but the colour coding is optional.

Feb 08, 2013 07:38 AM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Hi Myrl, One thing to know about that is new home warrants are not universal, not the same in all jurisdictions and have a short warranty period. If a problem manifests after the end of the warranty period you out of luck.

Feb 08, 2013 07:55 AM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Talk about getting into 'hot water'! That's quite the story Karen.

Feb 08, 2013 08:01 AM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Chuck, you saved the deal. And your procedure is correct to restore air to the air chambers. You either drain down the zone or the whole house and then refill it. Thanks for your full contribution.

Feb 08, 2013 08:12 AM
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Robert:  And the story is oh, so true.  I can still imagine that woman's scream waking up the entire neighborhood.  What a shock it must have been for her.  3:00am... she is wobbly wandering down the dark hallway to the guest bath, almost blindly sits down, expecting to be on the top wooden seat, and spu-lash.  Right into a bowl of hot water. 

I guess the family should be thankful she didn't have a heart attack.  I even remember the name of the builder, and the number of the model home she bought.

Feb 08, 2013 08:47 AM
John J. Woods
Big Dog Press, LLC - Winder, GA
Going where no man has gone before - wouldn't you?

 

   In the second picture, when I hover over the arrestors, the tag says, "Air hammer arrestors."  Are these 'air hammer arrestors' or 'water hammer arrestors', or is there a distinction?  Or is this different trade 'lingo' from different parts of the country?

 

Feb 08, 2013 10:14 AM
Robert Butler
Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC
Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Kanen, would the yell have been louder if the water was cold?

Yeah John, I shoud have said/wrote either 'air chamber device' or 'water hammer arrestor'. My slip I guess.

Feb 09, 2013 04:47 AM
Anonymous
Blair
You may want to double check but some of the modern ones can be installed in any direction because they have a piston that separates the water from the air, those can be mounted as shown.
Mar 09, 2014 11:57 AM
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