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Someone Caught Trashing Expensive A-Frame & Sign - What would you do?

By
Real Estate Agent with SurfTheTurf.com, Inc.

Here's the story directly from one of my agents last weekend....the story is a bit long, but I think the punch line is amazing....And we'd like your input on what our next step should be....

==========Statement as given by my real estate agent =========================

On Saturday January 26th, around 4:20 pm, I completed my open house at 10575 Corte Jardin Del Mar in Carmel Valley.  I left this property heading North on E. Ocean Air Drive toward the intersection of E. Ocean Air Drive and Carmel Mountain Road.  Upon pulling up to the stop light at the intersection of E. Ocean Air Drive and Carmel Mountain Road, I witnessed a man pull over to the right heading East on Carmel Mountain Road maybe 30 feet before he crossed E. Ocean Air Drive.  I saw him get out of his car, walk up to my sign, grab it off the landscaping and then heave it over the concrete wall.  I rolled down my window and began honking and yelling that he could not do that.  He looked my way and walked back toward his car. 

The light changed green and I pulled through the intersection and parked on the right hand side of E. Ocean Air Drive just past Carmel Mountain Road.  I jumped out started walking over to the car, which I believe was a new Cadillac SRX Crossover, Red.  I motioned for the man to get out of his car and talk to me which he did.  I immediately asked him what he thought he was doing.  He responded that I couldn't have my sign in the public right of way.  I explained that I didn't have it in the right of way and that it was off to the side on the landscaping, completely off the sidewalk and out of the right of way.  He responded that I couldn't put it there either, but gave me no other explanation. 

I asked "What gives you authority to vandalize my sign?" The man responded that he was a member of the local board.  He didn't identify himself, who he represented, or what he meant.  At the time, I thought that he must be talking about the local HOA board.  I asked if I could give him my contact information so he could send me the rules and that I would be sure to abide by them.  He didn't offer me his card, and he wouldn't even take mine.  Instead, he just shook his head moving around in a nervous, irritated manner and began saying that he could throw my signs in the trash just as the police could throw my signs in the trash.  As he's telling me this, he started acting even more nervous and irritated by my questions and at one point I thought he was going to back up into the traffic on Carmel Mountain Road.  He then turned and walked back to his car and began getting into it.

I again offered to give him my contact information to which he responded, "I don't have time for that."   I said, "But you have time to trash peoples signs."  He just shook his head and got back in the car and started to drive off.  Even worse was the manner in which he departed.  Instead of dealing with this in the kind of serious manner that it deserved, he just looked at me, smiled and waved good-bye.  He never identified himself, and I guess he thought he was just going to drive away....I guess he did not realize that I wrote down his license plate number. 

I retrieved my sign and put it in my car.  As I was leaving I noticed just across E. Ocean Air, on the same side of Carmel Mountain Road, there was a Keller Williams sign right in the middle of the sidewalk.  As I made a right turn down Carmel Mountain Road toward Highway 56, I noticed both a Keller Williams and a Prudential sign on the sidewalk at the corner of Carmel Mountain Road and Senda Luna Llena.  These signs were clearly in the public right of way where my signs were not.  Why the man decided to single my signs out for his outburst was beyond my comprehension.    I then made my way down to the intersection of Carmel Mountain Road where it turns into El Camino Real.  Though I had placed a sign on that intersection as well, it was now gone.  I assume that the same man did something with it as well.  I gathered the rest of my signs and headed home after a long day of real estate.

I contacted John Hokkanen, who heads up the real estate team and told him what had happened and gave him the license plate number.  He did some research and said he found a man who used that license plate as his email address and that it looked like the man, a Mr. XXXXXXXXXX, lived in the area.  John said that he also sent an email to this email address asking if this was the person involved with the sign or if he knew who had the red vehicle with XXXXXXXX license plate.   John gave me a couple of addresses that he said appeared to be related to the email address, and suggested that I might knock on some doors to see if someone might be able to tell me where Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX lived so that I could so advise the police and make it easy for them to go over and talk to Mr. XXXXXXXXXXX and see if he had my sign.

=================================

John was right - he had found the guy that did this.  The AMAZING THING? This guy (whose name has been excised to protect the guilty - at least at this point) is a member of the Carmel Valley Planning Board.  He was  "deputized" by the "Neighborhood Code Enforcement" program to be the eyes and ears of code enforcement for the area.  I've reviewed the documents for the neighborhood code enforcement program - they talk about being goodwill ambassadors, and handing business cards to the public when asked for identification.  So protocol wasn't followed by a longshot, and further review of the neighborhood program documents doesn't show sign enforcement as being on the list of enforcement priorities for the program.  The program appears mainly to be about health and safety and eyes/ears stuff (e.g., someone is mis-grading a slope or there's sewage leaking from a pipe or these trees are dangerously close to power lines, etc.)

WHAT DO YOU THINK MY AGENT SHOULD DO?  This guy can't be allowed to run amok and trash the real estate agents' signs.  We have not a clue as to why he went beserk with our sign, and he never explained it.

Let us know what you think we should do....We're thinking options might include: 1) going to the press; 2) going to the mayor; 3) going to the city attorney; 4) filing a police report against the guy; 5) ....... (you suggest).

Margaret Hokkanen, Carlsbad Real Estate

Bill Schwent
Casa Tierra Realty - Santa Fe, NM
Santa Fe Broker

Margaret,

Look closely at what Karen Anne Stone is saying.  It may be illegal to place your sign where it was.  Many communities have ordinances on the placement of off-property signage.  Call your municipality and see if it has such ordinances.  You state that your sign was not in the road right-of-way.  I suspect that it probably was since rights-of-way are usually wider than the actual improvements seem to indicate.  But, assuming your sign was not in the right-of-way, who's property was it on?  Did you get permission to place your sign on that private property?  Make sure you have a strong case for the correct and legal placement of your sign before you pursue the ideas mentioned in other responses to your posting.

Feb 04, 2008 06:33 AM
Chris Hendricks
Walnut Creek, CA
Vandalism is vandalism... and throwing your sign was just that.  Report it to both the police and to his Board-- before informing the newspapers.
Feb 04, 2008 06:43 AM
Joseph Lang
Pillar To Post Professional Home Inspection - Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Home Inspector, Southern California

First and foremost, THE MAN SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN APPROACHED.  You have no clue who he is and he could have hurt someone, no sign is worth that.  The proper thing to do is write down the license plate and call the police immediately.  DON'T call 911, you should have the local police department's non-emergency phone # in your cell phone.  Call them, tell them what happened and tell them the license plate #.  They'll do the rest.

As far as Code Enforcement, they can probably enforce any code of the city, therefore the sign would most likely fall into that category.  But he can't just throw the sign over the wall, that's littering.  Also, he should have identified himself as code enforcement if that was the case.  I'm sure he obviously wasn't on duty and therefore probably had no right to do that.

Feb 04, 2008 06:53 AM
Patricia Kennedy
RLAH@properties - Washington, DC
Home in the Capital
Margaret, I would have gotten the guys license number but not have confronted him.  He was clearly a bit of a nut case on a petty power trip.  I hope the HOA folks have a little chat with him.  And while they're at it, un-deputise him!
Feb 07, 2008 02:22 AM
Anonymous
Bill Schwent
It seems to me that all of you are taking the wrong approach to this.  The question we, as Realtors, should be asking is:  was the placement of the sign either legal or appropriate.  The guy who removed it may have been rude, but think about the problem as he saw it; an illegal or inappropriately placed sign.  Now, think about this: if everyone who has a property for sale put out one or two (or more) off-property, directional signs, what would your street corners look like?  That is why so many municipalilties and homeowners association have banned all real estate signs.  We are often our own worse enemies.
Feb 07, 2008 04:01 AM
#16
Margaret Hokkanen
SurfTheTurf.com, Inc. - Carlsbad, CA
→ Carlsbad Real Estate

Bill,  According to the agent, the sign was off the sidewalk and out of the right-of-way (usually 10 ft from the curb).  These guys have specific protocols they are supposed to follow, just like the police.  Specifically, they are supposed to take the sign and turn it in.  Also, when approached by the public, they are supposed to tender a code enforcement business card.  Third, they are supposed to be a good-will ambassador for the city.  In this guy's case, he didn't identify that he was with code enforcement, he didn't tender the business card, he wouldn't identify which code rule the sign was violating, he didn't remove the sign-he chucked it over the wall, and he certainly didn't act with any good will as he refused to take the agent's business card for further follow up (e.g., provide him with the rules).  In short, the guy was OUT OF CONTROL.  Why was he out of control?  We have not yet been able to determine the answer to that one.  But not to worry.  Next time we hold an open house, we'll be out-of-sight and on-the-scene with cameras.  Anyone messing with the signs is going to be prosecuted.  :)

If the HOA wants to ban all signs and negatively affect their own homeowners from being able to market their properties, I fully endorse their ability to do so.  If the short-term benefit of not seeing the photons bounce off the signs is better than the long-term benefits of higher values or quicker sales, then "GO FOR IT!" is what I say to the HOA.  Even though we do some of the best marketing in North County San Diego, there are areas that we simply will not pursue because it's too much of a pain.  Simply put, there are better areas to build a business.  And best of luck to their homeowners when it comes time to sell. :)

Margaret H.

 

Feb 07, 2008 08:14 AM
Israel Barden
RE/MAX Big Bear Village - Big Bear Lake, CA
I'd give him a karate chop to the neck. That'll teach him.
Feb 07, 2008 08:26 AM
Krista Fuchs
Prudential Fox & Roach - Exton, PA
Chester County Realtor - (484) 459-8025 - Home Buying and Selling
I agree with Joseph, your agent was lucky something terrible didn't happen to her.   And for what?  a sign?  Call the police and let them deal with it, they are the professionals for this.  I would advise your agent to not approach another crazy person!
Feb 08, 2008 02:32 AM
Shannon Aldrich
Keller Williams Coastal Realty - Rye, NH
NH & Maine Real Estate Seacoast
It wasn't just vandalism but it was also littering - Do you have ordinances for that in your community? Let the police handle it and maybe write a letter to your local editorial page.
Feb 15, 2008 11:59 PM
Michele Hobaugh
Allen Tate Realtors - Charlotte, NC
Broker,ABR,GRI,CRS

Sounds like he littered, too!

 

Feb 19, 2008 01:52 PM
Edward W. Lui
Mars Hill Realty Group - Georgetown, TX
Georgetown Texas Real Estate
Wow, I definitely agree he mishandled this and you should follow through with this.  I hope you get some resolution.
Feb 23, 2008 02:57 AM
Freddy Solis Bristow
Vylla Home - Bristow, VA
Braemar Realtor
One thing you should also remember is that within certain communities or associations some roads are considered private, they clean them, maintain them and police them. So, make sure that their bylaws were not broken when you placed the sign in that location if you did you wight have been trespassing. Even then that man's behaviour was inexcusable.
Feb 24, 2008 11:24 AM
Dee Nofziger
|Key Realty | Maumee Toledo Real Estate Blog - Toledo, OH
Maumee Real Estate, Toledo Homes, Key Realty

In Toledo, OH and surrounding communities, all temporary roadside signs are banned, however there is an exception for Open House signs. Open House signs may be erected for a 24-hour period of time ONLY, then must be removed.

Any signs violating the law are taken by the proper authorites and the agent (or company if no agent name is on them) is then fined $75. I'm not sure if you can retrieve your signs if confiscated or not.

A frustration for sure, but I have used this to an advantage on occasion when talking to FSBOs, as they have signs EVERYWHERE. $75 times numerous signs can add up, so why not hire a realtor instead of donating to the local coiffers?

Glad you weren't harmed by the lunatic. I would make sure his board members know of his behavior, as it sounds as though it is only a matter of time before he does soemthing even MORE stupid.

Warm Regards

Feb 28, 2008 02:08 AM
Stella Barbour
NoVa Brokers LLC - Vienna, VA
Principal Broker, Serving Virginia and Maryland

I would report him to the police.  Vandalism is still wrong.  All he would have to do is identify himself properly and ask you nicely and you would be able to make a decision from there.

 

Feb 28, 2008 03:22 AM
Susan Jackowski
Lake Norman NC - Mooresville, NC
Lake Norman NC & Hudson Valley NY
I would go to the Town Supervisor or Mayor and speak with them.  Make sure you are in the rights as far as the sign laws, and then I would put in a complaint to the municipality.  Who knows this could have happened to others, or lets put him on notice in case it happens again.
Feb 28, 2008 03:34 AM
Sandra Carlisle (Ayers)
Berkshire Hathaway California Properties - Newport Beach, CA
Real Estate Marketing & Sales

Sounds like he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar.  You left him speechless.  Only a nutter would freak out about a sign without calling or answering your questions.  I don't think I would have approached him.  If your sign was legally placed, I would let the police know about his behavior.

 For a moment, I thought the punch line was going to be that he was an agent at another company. 

Feb 28, 2008 08:38 AM
Dee Nofziger
|Key Realty | Maumee Toledo Real Estate Blog - Toledo, OH
Maumee Real Estate, Toledo Homes, Key Realty
Yeah, I also thought for a moment that he would turn out to be another agent ... or a competing seller!
Feb 28, 2008 11:38 AM
Anthony Saunchez
Campa Properties - San Bernardino, CA
How can we be of service
If the problem persists you can always move to the inland empire. I will represent you in your next home purchase. I also promise to keep all four eyes on your open house signs (for a small fee of course)
Feb 28, 2008 05:17 PM
Ryan Vivo
Gateway Realty - Fairfield, CA
NRBA Realtor Solano County, Gateway Realty 707-384-5894
I would turn him into the cops.  Who in the right mind would do that kind of thing.  I feel bad for you agent.
Mar 05, 2008 03:47 PM
Anonymous
Randal Spence

You should think about keeping a trunk full of my inexpensive real estate signs on hand at all times and replace them as fast and nuts like him throw them away.  I would also have the pepper spray we sell for agent protection in hand next time I approach a nut case like him.  You never know what you could be up against.  Although he's good for businesses like mine, cities and counties are getting way out hand with their petty ordinances.  For now, all laws should be relaxed to give real estate the opportunity to sell.  When we're back into the prosperity years again, they can perhaps think about returning to their bureaucratic ways. 

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Regards . . .

Jun 24, 2008 04:58 PM
#31