Good morning Debbie. Yep, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. This guy is just a bomb waiting to explode and I would stay as far away from him as I could.
Bobbie - No regrets here. Yes, I think he will learn the hard way.
Sheila - Yes, I know it's way too good to be true.
In my former life I was an Auto Body Damage estimator. I feel your pain and often reminded them, "Its what the estimate DOESN"T SAY that will bite you. "SUGGESTED"
Debbie: It sounds like he is being duped by the ridiculously low estimate...when it sounds to good to be true, it almost always is!
He will only wish he had listened to you in the end!!You do get what you pay for when it comes to this sort of thing.
Good for you for explaining that....hopefully he makes the right decision and ends up calling you back!
That is shocking when someone quotes far below reasonable Debbie and I would have them check references of work done.
It's like I tell people when they ask me my commission. I tell them you can find cheaper, but you can't find better.
Debbie, Definitely sounds like a case of you get what you pay for, and a grossly low estimate is scary. And thanks for the advice on our repair job here!
Debbie, if something is too good to be true, it is usually is a sign to run! I agree with you.
I'll bet he hires one of the low-ball estimated companies (if he can figure out who they are), and he'll get a crappy job and then call you to fix it. If it sounds too good, it is.
It would be really interesting to follow up with him to see who he chose and how it turned out.
I have learned that when people submit dialogue that is outside the box, if it holds then we needed to know. If it doesn't, it says a lot about the person pushing it. You know what things cost...It appears that this man finds that irrelevant....Well he may just find out the hard way
Debbie - This happens a lot in the construction industry, bids coming in so low that it barely covers the cost of materials. This certainly sents up a red flag that something is missing. But like you stated, you can explain this to the client and hope that things work out. I usually more on to the next estimate but I've often wanted to follow up of those bids to see what happened. Probably none of my business...
Hi Debbie - quality and service cost more - the fact that you are busy and the others can show up in a day says it all. Regards Dave
Debbie, this is a splendid post. Price pressure affects every industry I know. But the bottom line is that there's a reasonable cost for every project.
If someone gets their roof replaced on the cheap, they'll probably end up spending more money in the long run. As a rule, cheap roofs fail long before the good ones do. That's why they're so cheap.
It can be very difficult to explain this to someone who only wants "cheap" and "fast."
I'm glad you're busy. I'd say you deserve it.
Debbie: I hear this sort of thing when clients are looking for a Lender. They've got a (supposed) great rate and program from some other Lender just chomping at the bit to work with them. When it's as big of a difference as you describe, my bells and alarms go off, just as yours did. Something ain't right! At that point I wish them luck and tell them to give me a call, should they find out the other offer isn't what it appears. Amazing how many times I get another call from those same people in the future. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink ...
Gene
Debbie,
Yes this is a common occurence in every field. There is always someone who is ready to underbid a job, only to come back and add to it after the initial bid. That is how the money is made with low bidders...It is not worth working with people who are of that mindset, even if you win them over, they often become a colossal pain and will cost you more in time and aggravation. A
Sad that people have to learn from their bad judgement. You did all you could - point out the red flags and move on.
Debbie - For a VERY short time I worked for a national flooring company that markets heavily their next day installation ... needless to say our pricing was a bit high, but, we often ran into the SAME exact thing. People that are only concerned about their bottom line often find that once the work is done they wish they had spent a bit more money.
Getting new flooring is an invetment in your home, one that, as I am sure you know, pays off! If you cannot afford to spend a little extra on quality to ensure long term happiness, then you might want to hold off and keep saving!
When it comes to flooring and cabinetry in rehabbing homes, you get what you pay for. He should ask to see finished product and get references. Does he have a need for quality flooring? Or does he intend to sell the house and doesn't care about quality?
Debbie -- sorry this potential client ran into these shysters, and isn't willing to listen to sound advice.
If it is too good to be true, then it most likely is. Some people will never learn.
Oh dear, that is scary. You are going to get a phone call telling you you were right and asking if you can correct the disaster that is definitely going to happen.
Oh I had some clients like this who hired a company to paint their home. I tried to counsel them on getting esimates and talking to references. But they were swayed by the price and the quick talking. One and a half years later, they have to do it again.
Debbie,
Maybe this is one of the times when you are better off not getting the business. That potential client sounds out of touch with reality.
There's always someone out there, who can afford to undercut your pricing. You never know what their motivation is, nor the motivation of the homeowner.
It sounds like you might be dodging a bullet here.
Debbie some people need to learn the hard way and this guy is headed towards a hard lesson.
Bliz - Yes, and you're welcome.
Sharon - Yes, that is usually true.
Kat - I think he will go w/ one of them...and then he'll call someone else to fix it...but he'll still be hunting around for someone cheap.
Jonathan - Yes, it would be.
Richie - Yes, I think he will find out the hard way.
Tom - Yes, it does and I do see it often...this one though was so unbelievably low that I couldn't believe it.
Wika - Yes, and I've seen this happen too often.
Dave - Yes, very true.
Hello Debbie: Hang in there. Responsible companies cannot and should not try to compete with all the hair brained types who have no clue what they are doing. This business will come back to you - eventually.
If he cannot remember the names of the companies are the quotes for real or is he just busting you>
The ever constant search for balance between price and value. As a rehabber, this is a regular challenge as finding good long term contractors takes effort indeed. Congrats for being a reliable source for many!
Debbie, when the number is off that much there's no point in trying to reason. You would have done better to give him the names of carpenters that replace damaged floors
This happens all the time to us Debbie and it's just as sad. When someone offers you a deal that is so far out of reason, then I would be very, very cautious!! But, just like a Realtor, when there's no talking sense to someone, it's time to move on and expend our energy on those who will listen. Crazziness though, right lol :)?
Debbie, These similar things happen on listing appointments. Agents will agree to list high and let the seller take the lead. It only serves to harm the seller. You have the courage and the integrity to tell the truth and run an honest business. We all know we get what we pay for. Discount spells desperate which those flooring contractors (if they really are flooring contractors and not handymen) are desperate for work!
Lots of red flags there. Good thing you recognized that up front. He'll wish he had used you after the job is done for sure!
Debbie, Congratulations on your feature. Reminds me of a post from long ago. You might want to think about this kind of response.What would YOUR sign read?
Debbie, I would run too. When the price is so far out of the norm there is something going on and it is most likely a scam.
Debbie, maybe you can get the re-finish work, if you want it, when the work fails. You know your trade...you get what you pay for.
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen Bubbeleh. You don't want to do a job for someone like him anyway. You're the one that should have ran.....let him figure it out on his own.
Debbie I see this all the time, all they do is put a coat of clear water poly over the existing floor without any prep work and in a few months it starts to peal off. Always stick with your local expereince contractors.
On to the next one. Sounds like a dishonest or uninformed person. I think sometimes people will do anything to try and talk down a sales person. Just like Roger says above, "you get what you pay for".
Thanks
Noah
Debbie
No doubt he will get what he is paying for, and he deserves it if is takes it.
Jeff
When you build a business based on low price you will live by the sword and die by the sword as well.
Some folks just cannot be rescued from their own stupidity. Let him go, and be there for him when he calls after the other contractor he chooses ruins the job.
Erick Blackwelder
Washington DC suburbs
703-677-1120
Equal Housing Opportunity
I couldn't agree more, Debbie. If it sounds too good to be true... the adage ALWAYS holds. I learned that as a 20-something with my first house... more than once unfortunately!
You should have asked if you could contact him down the road and come take a look at the finished product. It is likely that he'll get exactly what he pays for.
Many "sayings" apply here, but the most obvious ones are "you get what you pay for" and "a fool and his money are soon parted".
I used to do finish carpentry. Had a few situations just like this. A year or so after they had the work done they would call to have it done correctly. My invoice was a little higher and what they had done was a waste of cash. They would have been better off just burning the money and doing it right the 1st time. Then there are those too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake so they make another one!
Sounds like he was mesmerized by the low estimates and not at all concerned about the red flags you pointed out. Perhaps when he's done playing around with the second string he'll give you a call to play with the varsity!
Thats the old adage "If it sounds to good to be true, it is" We always want the best deal but sometimes the best deal is as close as you can get and then settle in the middle.
Nice job of warning him though Debbie, I don't think all are going to listen to the pro, some may want that crazy low price.
Debbie,
You gave him the very best advise possible. He will know you were right, eventually.
As a Contract manager for a Construction Company I NEVER used the low bid. Not once, NEVER - because they have always forgotten something and because you know they were the lowest bid you know they forgot something - and they WILL ask for an extra! They do not have enough in the job to do a proper job, so if you do not give them the extra you get a "Half-A$$" job.
Qualifiers to use to select a Contractor - Age of the business, Customer Service Reputation, Descriptive Bid and Comparable bid for Comparable work. (I didn't mention Licensed and Insured because if they are not licensed and Insured they are not a Contractor per definition) That will mean and relatively flawless job with positive results!
You can't win them all - and believe it or not - you don't want them all!
You shared great insights with this consumer. Red flags abound, but he can't see the flags for the dollar signs! I guess if the job goes poorly, there is always the possibility he will remember which company gave a reasonable price and understood the job well. Either way, you did the right thing!
Donna LoPinto
Regardless of your business, you can't win prospects who are ignorant and even after educating them should you expect many of them to comprehend the facts. The value of your proposal was higher than what he was quoted online and you're face to face with him and examined his floors. I would have asked him if something this important could be determined without being physically examined by a professional? Would you be satisfied to have a doctor examine your health and symptoms over the phone, I don't think so?
When a company uses bait and switch marketing tactics to lure in business, I don't compare my business to them. I'm in a different business of professional integrity, performance and complete satisfaction with building clients who appreciate value and recommend my services to their friends and family members continuously. We're in business to earn income, yet I determine with whom I earn my income from and this prospect wouldn't be eligible in my client database. Solution, NEXT!
Reminds me of the saying, "Think it's expensive to hire a professional? Wait until you hire an amateur!"
Debbie, I got responses like that a lot when I ran a painting company (everybody thinks that they can paint like a pro!). My developed response was, "Good luck with that. Here's our card, but remember WHEN you call me come back, I do have to charge MORE to fix other people's mistakes."
Some people only look at the price. I run into the same thing in my business. I agree that price is important but the quality of the work and the qualifications of the company are much, much more important.
That's too bad - for him, that is! You are probably lucky he is going with another Co. - Come back later and fix it for him. Some people just do not care about ANYTHING except the price.
The best way to resolve this, is for you to give reference/show the result of your installation that already completed or close to completion. Make sure that the client also asked the other 2 company for references and see the result too.
Hi Debbie, Feel fortunate he had those other bids. A customer like that is nothing but trouble. Your advice to him to run applies to you as well. Run and don't look back.
Bill Roberts
Good post. You did all that you could to show him that he might be getting a really bad deal. That's all you can do. As you mentioned, check out the competition and see what they're all about for your own knowledge. Move on.
reminds me of this:
Company A put up billboards advertising "$25 fingernail jobs", so Company B put up signs nearby "$49 to fix $25 fingernail jobs"... guess who did well....actually both. Some people will ALWAYS go cheap, others want better/best.(figures and terminology are just for example, I know nothing about how much it costs to actually do your fingernails...).
Debbie...the old saying you get what you pay for. Sometimes it is best to walk away from customers as such.
Thanks for sharing
I would think in your business the really good deals are ones that could end up really bad.
This guy is bad news from the start and he's going to get what he deserves - charge him an extra 25% when he cans you to fix what the other company did.
Sounds like someone just winged it to him over the phone. Does make you wonder though if the estimator can't even get the square footage right for the job.
Its always a good idea to have three professionals to look at work to be done and have them explain the work as well their estimate. it should give you a good idea what needs to be done and who is the best for the job.
Seems the costumer didn't get the correct explanation with his estimate. I would have not comment on the other estimate, can be seems different by a costumer and I would walk from this costumer, trouble is already programmed.
I expect every business runs into those who only look at the price. I certainly do as a copywriter.
What they aren't seeing is the price they'll pay for a bad job.
JOHN RUSKIN said it best:
There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.
Hi Debbie. Great post. I run into this all the time as a CPA. They can always get their tax return done cheaper at ******* Tax Service. Problem is, they come back later that year or the next after they have a number of problems with their return, and need to get it done right. These people deserve the service they get.
Like the saying goes....If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true. That's the best case scenario.
Worst case, they're replacing the floors!
Debbie, you can't help some folks. We have that happen periodically with our electrical business. I normally hear back from those customers at some points. It may be to repair their wiring, or it might be to do it. I had one guy that called just to tell me how outrageously high I was compared to the second bid he received. He then told me he got it a year before. I encouraged him to have that same company come back and update his bid. We were less than $200 off. He gave us that job and another one later on. Good luck, and it's good to hear you're busy.
In my country they say: '' cheap people pay twice''.
You always can find someone whose price is very affordable, but when they finish and you see the results~ this is when one realizes why the price was that low.
You get what you pay for~ Period!
Zig Zglar used to say "If you don't have the time(money) to do it right the FIRST TIME.
How are you going to find the time(money) to do it over?"
He was a very wise man, God rest his soul.
I always advise people to run froim an estimate that is substantually less than others...something is invariably wrong!! Yo handled this with aplomb!!
If a price sounds to good to be true, it usually is. In this case, they may end up ruining the floors beyond repair. I have a suggestion, ask the customer to call them and have them talk to you without them knowing who you are. Then maybe you can find out why their estimates are low and explain it to your customer.
You have no idea how many time we run into a variation of the same thing. Price shopping for a service is always a bad idea but we frequently have home buyers tell us that they were told all home inspections were the same so shop for the lowest price. Again, classically bad advise.
As someone who spent 20 years in project management I have to agree with your advise to this guy to run. The ridiculously lowest bidder in any situation like this either doesn't understand what he's bidding on or plans on making his profit with add-on's and change orders.
Mid-America Inspection Services, serving Fargo and West Fargo, North Dakota, Moorhead, Alexandria, Fergus Falls, Detroit Lakes, Wadena and the Minnesota Lakes Region
218-443-3555, 320-846-0004, 218-287-0877, 218-841-0444
Smart move to just move on. You'll most likely hear from him in the future to fix the damage.
When he walks into the room to see them reading the instructions on the back of the boxes after they've already started and realized they left something out, then he will realize why the big discount. Most instructions come in 4 or more languages but the one reading them should hopefully be literate.
Debbie, there is actually a public service announcement on the radio which says "If it sounds too good to be true, it is." It is unfortuate that value service providors like you have to be confronted with this. Like Adam in our BNI says, just tell them to have a nice day.
When is a good deal not a good deal? When the contractor doesn't know what they're doing. :)
Hi Debbie, remember to pass on the old saying to all your prospective customers: you get what you pay for!
Show them photos of your high class finished products laid in the homes...followed by customers positive statements! Good luck - you deserve it all, Debbie!!
There will always be those people who will look for the lowest price no matter what and not "dig deeper" into what they are getting. It's the same with hiring a realtor. I've always said you get what you pay for, but if they won't listen to you, my philosphy is... next!
Debbie: Great post. I aways ask for referrals or endorsements from work done in the area and contact the people directly, and sometimes you can suggest to those wanting a big deal to check your company (and the low bid companies) out with the Better Business Bureau in your area. As others have said, "You get what you pay for." Those people who always want a big deal may not realize the value of quality,and they'll always complain along the way and cause the most problems. Next..... RUN-RUN.
This guy wanted you. He knows those others are jokes. But he was trying to get the price down. Stick to your guns.
Hi Debbie,
He might have been playing you to get your price down lower. He might still call you but watch out. He is probably one to complain and pull something. I always get 3 good bids and do not usually take the lowest. Hardwood floors are so popular and I love mine. My entire downstairs is wood and it is so easy to take care of. Before I sell my house to downsize in a couple of years, I will have to replace my expensive carpeting upstairs but not the wood downstairs. Then we are putting wood in our condo before we move in there. Love wood! ***This guy is going to be sorry or he doesn't care about quality.
Debbie,
It's so tough when you know there is a very high probability this will turn out eventually costing them 50% MORE when they have to re-do. You did the right thing and warned them, but folks that will believe the low, low, low proprosition are not the best fit for us.
All the best, Michelle
Debbie,
Often times you better run when you see estimates that are so great. Unless, of course, a good estimate is all you want. as it is not realistic to have a good quality job from these guys.
A few years ago we had a bid better than a dream The guy said that we would be happy with his quality of paint job. A vacant 2 bedr unit, it took him a week, but for this unbelievable price we agreed to wait. When we can in a week, we saw something beyond terrible. Previous paint was seen through, it was all so uneven.
So I asked him why it was this way, and he said that if we did not want to see the old paint, he would have to put two coats, but it would cost more. Hey, we never discusse the number of coats, we were simply promised an excellent result and this was not it.
Well, we got what we paid for. And then we brought in a real painter.
When my husband was building custom homes we often lost the bid to someone with a low, low price. Then the next year the people would call to ask if he could come and fix what the first contractor did wrong - or finish the job he left hanging.
He always said "No thanks."
Yes, we have gotten some calls like this. We'll help them w/ their next project, but it's usually very challenging to fix someone else's project.
Oops. Sure sounds like this customer is going to have to learn the hard way. You are probably better off walking away from this one with no regrets Debbie