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Screwed- Weekend warriors and decks!

By Donald Hester

Home Inspector with NCW Home Inspections, LLC

February 21, 2013 09:54 PM

Screwed- Weekend warriors and decks! Quincy Home Inspection Services

I have a saying if a see a deck done completely right I will jump up and down and make sure that whole world knows it. As a home inspector I just never see them done completely right. Decks seems to be one of those components of the home that just do not receive the attention to detail they deserve.

In many cases this lack of detail may have very minor consequences but as the deck ages or if the deck goes up in height these details can rear their ugly head.

Here is one detail that needs to be always evaluated… the joist hanger fasteners.

Joist hangers are pretty common on most decks and are a great at what they are designed for, if installed correctly.

Improper fasteners in joist hanger Quincy Home Inspection

These are engineered products and as such have specific requirements for their installation. So let’s look at one little detail the fastener.

Simpsom Ties is a very common manufacturer of joist hangers and is on of the common ones I see when performing home inspections.

When using these hangers the manufacturer will specify what type of fasteners are to be used.

From Simpsom- “All specified fasteners must be installed according to the instructions in this catalog. Incorrect fastener quantity, size, type, material, or finish may cause the connection to fail.”

Also they state- “Common screws may NOT be used to replace NAILS in connectors.”

Fasteners for joist hangers Quincy Home Inspection

Most people do not understand that most common screws are designed to prevent withdrawal, the pulling apart of materials but are weak on shear which is a strain produced by pressure in the structure of a substance, when its layers are shifted in relation to each other.

So in using an improper fastener you could be compromising the strength of the connection which could lead to failure.

Remember- “Do not Screw when you should be Nailed”.

Simpsom’s- “Installers Pocket Guide”

Note: There are engineered screws that are designed for shear applications.

“If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.”

Red Adair

NCW Home Inspections, LLC is a Licensed Washington State Home Inspection service located in Wenatchee Washington serving Chelan County, Douglas County, Kittitas County, Okanogan County and Grant County Washington and the cities of Wenatchee, Leavenworth, Cashmere, Oroville, Cle Elum, East Wenatchee, Quincy and many more…

Your Quincy, Wenatchee and Chelan Professional Real Estate, Home and Structural Pest Inspection Services.

www.ncwhomeinspections.com 509-670-9572

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Fred Hernden, CMI

Superior Home Inspections - Greater Albuquerque Area - Albuquerque, NM

Albuquerque area Master Inspector

Everybody and their brother thinks they can easily build a deck on their homes... "It's just a wood floor"

Doing it right so it is safe for your family to use and actually is a compliment to the home is another matter.

Feb 21, 2013 10:19 PM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Fred, This is so true. And if it sitting low not such a big deal but put it up in the air the story changes (literally an figuratively ;).

Feb 21, 2013 10:40 PM

TeamCHI - Complete Home Inspections, Inc.

Complete Home Inspections, Inc. - Brentwood, TN

Home Inspectons - Nashville, TN area - 615.661.029

Good Morning, Donald, Looks like that joist hanger is screwed! It is amazing what we see, isn't it?

Feb 21, 2013 11:14 PM

Jay Markanich

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA

Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

The round-head screws look like sheet metal screws! Well, at least they screwed the thing up. Better than screwing it down...

Badda bump!

Feb 21, 2013 11:21 PM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Michael, I have used those deck screws quite a bit but not as joist hangers ; ) Yeah all the things we see, ain't it fun!

Jay, you maybe right but I know they are not right for this application. Just all screwed ; )

Feb 22, 2013 01:32 AM

James Quarello

JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT

Connecticut Home Inspector

I see hangers screwed way to often. The other problem is when someone uses "hanger nails". They are an inch band a half long, sold by Simpson, but not speced for hangers. Go figure that one :)

Feb 22, 2013 07:33 AM

Robert Butler

Aspect Inspection - Montreal West Island, QC

Montreal Home Inspector | Aspect Inspection

Great point Don. I've been saying that for years.

Nails are used for fire code reasons as well. It is better that joists fall and pullout of the hangers (as the floor is burn't through) rather than the unsupported weight causing the joists to lever the wall down on top of firefighters.

This fact is not well understood by many inspectors.

Feb 23, 2013 01:06 AM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jim, That depends on the hanger. The diagram I used is from Simpsom and it shows the TEKO style of nail.

Robert, That is an interesting thought. Fire really is a game changer in construction techniques.

Feb 23, 2013 01:25 AM

James Quarello

JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT

Connecticut Home Inspector

Depends on what? I have never found a hanger with those #10's used that was speced for them. I refer to the chart for the specific hanger when writing up an issue.

Feb 23, 2013 01:57 AM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jim, you can use "Tico" (I missed spelled) nails as long as you make the appropriate adjustment in hanger load capacity and have proper bracing. If you need full capacity you must the nails indicated in the hanger tables. In most cases you are completly right.

There are different hanger that they are used on though.

Feb 23, 2013 02:38 AM

James Quarello

JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT

Connecticut Home Inspector

Can't use them on a joist hanger for the very reason you show in the diagram, they do not penetrate the ledger board from the side holes. I have a few photos from decks that the builder used the 10s. You can see through a gap how the nails stop short of the ledger. As for making adjustments, load capacity, etc., obviously out of the scope. Also the Simpson rep here has told us on many occasions, those #10 nails should not be used with hangers. That's all I need to hear :)

Feb 23, 2013 02:51 AM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jim, I am with you. But here is some info from Simpsom.

Simpson Strong Tie LU28 2 x 8 Economy Standard Joist Hanger

• 20 Gauge

• 1-9/16"W x 6-3/8"H x 1-1/2"B

• Use with 10d and 16d Fasteners in Header, 10d x 1-1/2" in Joist

• Zinc galvanized finish containing 0.90oz of zinc per square foot of surface area (total both sides)

Feb 23, 2013 03:28 AM

James Quarello

JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT

Connecticut Home Inspector

Don, That makes no sense for the very reason I stated above and runs counter to Simpson's own diagram. Also on a deck, the hanger would have to be galvanized, which an LU is not. The LUS hangers is the most common and requires four 10d nails. As I said I write the report based upon the hanger model. Those shorty nails are not acceptable, especially for a deck. If an LU hanger were used on a deck, it would be wrong.

Feb 23, 2013 03:51 AM

James Quarello

JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT

Connecticut Home Inspector

You know, now that I look at your picture, I see that is not LUS type hanger. It is the LU which lacks the angle so the nails will penetrate the joist. It makes sense why Simpson would spec a 1-1/2" nail for that style hanger. Also for decks, it should be the Zmax galvinized, the LU is galvinized, but not really an exterior grade finish or rated for the newer PT lumber. That is the new PT before the new stuff now. Actually a hanger for a deck sould be an LUSZ.

Feb 23, 2013 06:49 AM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jim, are we having fun yet ;) The issue is their tech docs do allow the use of the nails in certain applications.

Installation:

Use all specified fasteners. See General Notes.
Nails must be driven at an angle through the joist or truss into the header to achieve the table loads.
Not designed for welded or nailer applications.
16d sinkers (0.148" dia. x 3 1/4" long) may be used where 10d commons are specified with no reduction in load. Where 16d commons are specified, 10d commons or 16d sinkers (0.148" dia. x 3 1/4" long) may be used at 0.85 of the table load.
With 3x carrying members, use 16d x 2 1/2" nails into the header and 16d commons into the joist with no load reduction.
With 2x carrying members, use 10d x 1 1/2" nails into the header and 10d commons into the joist, reduce the load to 0.64 of the table value.
Use stainless steel (SS) nails with stainlesss-steel (SS) hangers.

Feb 23, 2013 06:51 AM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jim, I posted a little late and you already responded. I think the LUS, the "S" stands for their shear fastener series. Which is what you where referring to.

Feb 23, 2013 06:55 AM

James Quarello

JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT

Connecticut Home Inspector

Here we also have shore line with wind high requirements, so decks there should have SS hangers, fasteners. Many I see do not. SS ain't cheap :)

Feb 23, 2013 07:01 AM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

Jim, very good point. Here our climate is so dry that things fair better than if you where over the on the other side of the big hill ;) Yeah I bet you do not see much SS, that gets pricey.

Feb 23, 2013 07:07 AM

James Quarello

JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT

Connecticut Home Inspector

Pretty wet here, yet not like over the hills there. You guys have that funny looking PT wood with all the lines too :)

Feb 23, 2013 07:27 AM

Donald Hester

NCW Home Inspections, LLC - Wenatchee, WA

NCW Home Inspections, LLC

We have to order that special ;)

Feb 23, 2013 07:29 AM