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Old Townhouse With A Newly Finished Fourth Level - Insulation Anyone?

By
Home Inspector with Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC 3380-000723

This is an old townhouse with a newly finished fourth level - insulation anyone?

The all-brick townhouse now has everything - new kitchen, new floors, new shape inside, new bathrooms, new electrical, lots of new plumbing, new HVAC, new windows, new roof - you name it.  And all done with a permit!

And a new fourth level!  I love fourth levels.  Otherwise all you have up there is dead attic space.

When there is enough height the roof comes off, a new truss system is put in to accommodate room(s) and you go to town.

This fourth level has a large room with a dormer window, and a full bathroom.  It's a great space!

Going into the large room I noticed something - it was uncomfortably warm!  And the day was not very hot outside, only about 80F.

There were two HVAC registers in the big room.  But no return.  I think every level should have at least one return.  Return air is very important to the comfort of any level, and particularly a fourth.

But the insulation is important too!  Even though the temperature difference between inside and out was only about 12F (ideally you want to see a 17F difference), given that the ceiling was so close to the roof I thought it would probably give off a pretty good thermal signature anyway.

Facing the dormer window in the center of the room, and looking to the left and then to the right with a thermal camera, this is what you see!  I use this palette because it is very forthcoming.

On each image I took a couple of temperature measurements to distinguish where there appears to be proper insulation, and where there appears to be poorly-installed or loose insulation.

Imagine how stark a contrast these two images would show on a very hot, or very cold, day!

And, therefore, how uncomfortable this room will be.

When permits are closed, meaning approved and signed off on, insulation is not a part of the jurisdictional authority's final inspection.  And this jurisdiction does not inspect insulation prior to drywall.

My recommendation:  insulation is permanent.  Once there, well done or poorly done, that is what you get.  I had a comment from a Realtor the other day stating that thermal images make the "inspection too intense."  Well, who is being served by the inspection?

 

Posted by

Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC  

Based in Bristow, serving all of Northern Virginia.

Office (703) 330-6388   Cell (703) 585-7560

www.jaymarinspect.com


Comments(18)

TeamCHI - Complete Home Inspections, Inc.
Complete Home Inspections, Inc. - Brentwood, TN
Home Inspectons - Nashville, TN area - 615.661.029

Good Saturday morning Jay. Insulation??? No, we don't need no stinking insulation. We like paying high utility bills.

Oct 02, 2015 07:03 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

While there I thought I heard the heat say, "Whoosh...", Michael.

Oct 02, 2015 07:07 PM
Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

I hope the builder/contractor will remedy this problem, Jay.  Otherwise, these folks will find their fourth floor of limited use and be paying extra for the heating/cooling.

Oct 02, 2015 09:57 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Poor insulation is always a money eater Gabe!

Oct 02, 2015 09:59 PM
Lenn Harley
Lenn Harley, Homefinders.com, MD & VA Homes and Real Estate - Leesburg, VA
Real Estate Broker - Virginia & Maryland

This is a classic case for a 3 step inspection on new construction. 

My experience with those 4 level anythings is that the 4th level is usually lacking in quality details.

 

Oct 02, 2015 10:40 PM
Wayne Martin
Wayne M Martin - Chicago, IL
Real Estate Broker - Retired

Jay, another example of why it pays to have a home inspector ivolved in the project! Enjoy your day!

Oct 02, 2015 10:50 PM
Dick Greenberg
New Paradigm Partners LLC - Fort Collins, CO
Northern Colorado Residential Real Estate

Hi Jay - Too intense? Yeah, we certainly don't want to be bothered by too much useful information - it just confuses things and gets in the way of an easy payday.

Oct 03, 2015 01:30 AM
DEANNA C. SMITH CERTIFIED MOBILE NOTARY
Certified Mobile Notary Signing Agent - Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Highest Ranked Certified Mobile Notary in Virginia

I recommend a Home Inspection to every one of my clients, bar none.   The money saved on this home's heating and cooling would more than pay for insulation being installed in the first place   You and your thermal camera are quite the learning tool

Oct 03, 2015 01:52 AM
Stephen Weakley
Nationwide Mortgage Services - Rockville, MD

Informative post as always.  Love old Mighty Mo and his w-ray vision.

Oct 03, 2015 08:09 AM
1~Judi Barrett
Integrity Real Estate Services 116 SE AVE N, Idabel, OK 74745 - Idabel, OK
BS Ed, Integrity Real Estate Services -IDABEL OK

I cannot imagine a real estate agent not liking thermal imaging.. anything that helps the client know what they are buying is great!  

Oct 03, 2015 10:17 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

This is a 19602 house in McLean, Lenn, but essentially gutted and rebuilt inside.  I liked the fourth level a lot, although there are many stairs, but the insulation surely lacked.

Hard to slip this by a thermal camera Wayne!

Dick - to that agent home inspections are a bother and an unnecessary evil.

Thanks Deanna.  Glad you enjoyed the post!

 

Oct 03, 2015 05:09 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Heat and cold are something he sees very well, Stephen!

Judi - I remember a long time ago when moisture meters came out and there was some controversy as to whether they should be used or not.  Silliness, in my opinion.

Oct 03, 2015 05:14 PM
Sally K. & David L. Hanson
EXP Realty 414-525-0563 - Brookfield, WI
WI Real Estate Agents - Luxury - Divorce

I would have told the Realtor that lack of insulation makes the energy bills too intense..geeez !

Oct 03, 2015 06:48 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

I agree S&D.   That comment really got under my skin.  That is someone without an understanding of the role of a Realtor.

Oct 03, 2015 07:09 PM
James Quarello
JRV Home Inspection Services, LLC - Wallingford, CT
Connecticut Home Inspector

I had an agent tell me my reports were intense. Never heard from him again. I wonder what intense means to those agents? 

Oct 03, 2015 09:20 PM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Jim - ha!  I love it!  It may be that I don't hear from this agent again too.  And for my benefit. 

I wonder what intense means too!

Yesterday I snapped an image of a 6 month old elfin princess.  Intense, I tell you!

People love it when I give them an image of their children or dogs.  Later they tell me they framed them.

Intense!

Oct 03, 2015 10:38 PM
Fred Hernden, CMI
Superior Home Inspections - Greater Albuquerque Area - Albuquerque, NM
Albuquerque area Master Inspector

There is too much intensity in this posting... I need a more calming, relaxing blog to comment on 

Oct 04, 2015 12:59 AM
Jay Markanich
Jay Markanich Real Estate Inspections, LLC - Bristow, VA
Home Inspector - servicing all Northern Virginia

Breath deep, and raise your arms high.  Sloooowly lower them to your sides Fred.

Lather, rinse and repeat.

Oct 04, 2015 01:34 AM